[Classic] Good farming team?

[Apatheist]

You could swap the druid for a warrior if you prefer warriors. Druids have better AE threat generation -- at least until (if) Blizzard fixes battle shout.

However, I'd revise that statement now that we're reasonably certain IWT will be available. Melee teams all the way. Casters are just mediocre until AQ40/Naxx gear.

[Syclone]

You could swap the druid for a warrior if you prefer warriors. Druids have better AE threat generation -- at least until (if) Blizzard fixes battle shout.

However, I'd revise that statement now that we're reasonably certain IWT will be available. Melee teams all the way. Casters are just mediocre until AQ40/Naxx gear.

Ah I see. Whats the issue with battle shout currently? Not generating threat per team member affected? From what I read druid's swipe/maul rotation is simpler/easier to do to hold AE threat compared to warrior toggling which could help those of us trying to manage multiple characters at once.

I am a bit surprised by your comment about melee > casters thanks to IWT. I assume IWT allows them to path to and start attacking a target. Isn't it true however that warriors and melee in general are more gear dependent? I would have expected a Druid/Shaman/3 Mage group to be better than lets say 4 Warrior/Shaman. Especially if your 5 man group isn't expected to get raid gear (only having them to farm dungeons and maybe raid trash besides a main).

[Apatheist]

Ah I see. Whats the issue with battle shout currently? Not generating threat per team member affected? From what I read druid's swipe/maul rotation is simpler/easier to do to hold AE threat compared to warrior toggling which could help those of us trying to manage multiple characters at once.

I am a bit surprised by your comment about melee > casters thanks to IWT. I assume IWT allows them to path to and start attacking a target. Isn't it true however that warriors and melee in general are more gear dependent? I would have expected a Druid/Shaman/3 Mage group to be better than lets say 4 Warrior/Shaman. Especially if your 5 man group isn't expected to get raid gear (only having them to farm dungeons and maybe raid trash besides a main).

Last I heard battle shout isn't generating any threat on beta. I don't know if that's something Blizzard will fix.

Preraid BiS for melee classes is significantly stronger than for casters. There are multiple epics available for warriors (lionheart helm, ironfoe, felstriker, cloudkeeper legplates), tons of hit rating and hand of justice is BiS trinket for warrior/rogue until well into phase 5. Feral druids have a similar power spike but they don't scale as well as warriors and rogues later on. Also, the crusader enchant is light years beyond anything casters have available to them.

Warlocks and mages don't start to get really strong in PvE until after AQ. In PvP they're much more dependent on CC/cooldowns to stay alive and susceptible to interrupts/LoS. Warriors just run at things, do a ton of damage and are naturally tanky and difficult to stop with a freedom. You don't have to try to kite or worry about being circle strafed or any of the issues casters have. That's not to say caster teams can't do well. They just require more effort.

I wouldn't even try to play a melee team without IWT. I know some people have done it but it's super slow and clunky IMO.

[Syclone]

Last I heard battle shout isn't generating any threat on beta. I don't know if that's something Blizzard will fix.

Preraid BiS for melee classes is significantly stronger than for casters. There are multiple epics available for warriors (lionheart helm, ironfoe, felstriker, cloudkeeper legplates), tons of hit rating and hand of justice is BiS trinket for warrior/rogue until well into phase 5. Feral druids have a similar power spike but they don't scale as well as warriors and rogues later on. Also, the crusader enchant is light years beyond anything casters have available to them.

Warlocks and mages don't start to get really strong in PvE until after AQ. In PvP they're much more dependent on CC/cooldowns to stay alive and susceptible to interrupts/LoS. Warriors just run at things, do a ton of damage and are naturally tanky and difficult to stop with a freedom. You don't have to try to kite or worry about being circle strafed or any of the issues casters have. That's not to say caster teams can't do well. They just require more effort.

I wouldn't even try to play a melee team without IWT. I know some people have done it but it's super slow and clunky IMO.

Does this remain true for preraid dungeon farming? My goal is to run 5 mans/maybe raid trash for farming, not for PvP. Would a caster group with significant AoE be a better choice in your opinion then?

So with IWT and a melee group. You essentially have them IWT + Click to Move to path to the target and attack. Then you keep spamming that to ensure they remain on the target combined with pressing keys to trigger skills? Is that the jist of it? I would imagine if you did something like 3 War/2Pal that you would control the 3 wars manually with identical input and the 2 pals with forwarding key presses? (or vice versa)

Edit: Doh sorry you did mention Mages/Warlocks not getting really strong in PvE until after AQ. So I guess you do mean that a melee group would farm dungeons better preraid as well. What would such a group look like on horde? 4 Warriors 1 Shaman maybe? Control shaman and forward presses to warrior or control all 4 warriors identically and forward heals/totems to shaman?

[Apatheist]

AoE?

Warriors have stronger AE on standard mob packs (4-6) with cleave/whilrlwind. Mages and warlocks have stronger AE on larger packs because their AE skills have no cap. However, you only really utilize large scale AE farming in dungeons that are significantly lower level than you. If you pull more than two packs in any on-level dungeon you'll die. There are clips from the beta of groups doing large AE pulls in SM but that would be pretty sketchy as a boxer. You don't have the control to micro iceblock, CC, heals, kiting and tanking the way 5 individual players do. The lower level dungeons are also much easier. At 55+ when you're farming end-game dungeons all of the mobs have silences, stuns, armor debuffs, AE damage/knockbacks, etc. that will kill you if you pull too many.

IWT moves your melee characters to their target. I usually create target action groups with a hotkey to toggle different characters IWT on or off. There are times you don't want to mindlessly spam IWT or you'll end up in some lava or getting cleaved since IWT has weird behavior and sometimes circles around the target.

3Warrior, 2Shaman or 4/1. Either would work fine. I always prefer having two healers just because I PvP a lot and a single healer can be interrupted/CC'd much more easily. If you're only interested in doing dungeons and not PvP, 4/1 will be plenty of healing. Especially once you get some decent +healing gear. Downranked chain heal is pretty efficient.

For raid trash farming casters are definitely superior. Raid trash in vanilla is too strong to tank with 5 characters, you have to kite it.

[Syclone]

Warriors have stronger AE on standard mob packs (4-6) with cleave/whilrlwind. Mages and warlocks have stronger AE on larger packs because their AE skills have no cap. However, you only really utilize large scale AE farming in dungeons that are significantly lower level than you. If you pull more than two packs in any on-level dungeon you'll die. There are clips from the beta of groups doing large AE pulls in SM but that would be pretty sketchy as a boxer. You don't have the control to micro iceblock, CC, heals, kiting and tanking the way 5 individual players do. The lower level dungeons are also much easier. At 55+ when you're farming end-game dungeons all of the mobs have silences, stuns, armor debuffs, AE damage/knockbacks, etc. that will kill you if you pull too many.

IWT moves your melee characters to their target. I usually create target action groups with a hotkey to toggle different characters IWT on or off. There are times you don't want to mindlessly spam IWT or you'll end up in some lava or getting cleaved since IWT has weird behavior and sometimes circles around the target.

3Warrior, 2Shaman or 4/1. Either would work fine. I always prefer having two healers just because I PvP a lot and a single healer can be interrupted/CC'd much more easily. If you're only interested in doing dungeons and not PvP, 4/1 will be plenty of healing. Especially once you get some decent +healing gear. Downranked chain heal is pretty efficient.

For raid trash farming casters are definitely superior. Raid trash in vanilla is too strong to tank with 5 characters, you have to kite it.

First, thanks so much for your input. It has been invaluable. I took some time to plan out what I think would work for me as well as trying out a setup that I could on a private server. Of course IWT isnt in the 1.12 client so testing a melee group with it isnt viable.

You mentioned you plan to do 3 War / 3 Pal. What does that look like for you? 1 Pal tank, 1 Pal healer and 3 arms/fury wars for dungeon leveling? What would you drive from, the tank?

If I did 4 War / 1 Sham would I need one of those wars to go prot? I am thinking so. Then I suppose I would drive from the prot tank for dungeon leveling as well?

I tested a Prot War/Resto Shaman/2 Mage/ Warlock in RFC on a private server. My biggest issue was keeping aggro as the prot warrior. I know practice will really help. I need to not have my dps macros assist the tank since the tank is tab targeting each mob to grab aggro. This did make me wonder though if perhaps Druid with swipe/maul would be easier. Druid/3War/Shaman?

Although 4 war/shaman might still be ideal, but I am just concerned about no cc and holding aggro. Perhaps holding aggro isn't as big of a deal if the dps are warriors and can take a hit.

Any advice with this would help greatly. I essentially would like to end up with an optimal 5 man farming group that includes my main (shaman), and possibly at some point have a 4 shaman/1 priest pvp group.

[nodoze]

First, thanks so much for your input. It has been invaluable. ...

You mentioned you plan to do 3 War / 3 Pal. What does that look like for you? 1 Pal tank, 1 Pal healer and 3 arms/fury wars for dungeon leveling? What would you drive from, the tank?

If I did 4 War / 1 Sham would I need one of those wars to go prot? I am thinking so. Then I suppose I would drive from the prot tank for dungeon leveling as well?

I tested a Prot War/Resto Shaman/2 Mage/ Warlock in RFC on a private server. My biggest issue was keeping aggro as the prot warrior. I know practice will really help. I need to not have my dps macros assist the tank since the tank is tab targeting each mob to grab aggro. This did make me wonder though if perhaps Druid with swipe/maul would be easier. Druid/3War/Shaman?

Although 4 war/shaman might still be ideal, but I am just concerned about no cc and holding aggro. Perhaps holding aggro isn't as big of a deal if the dps are warriors and can take a hit.

Any advice with this would help greatly. I essentially would like to end up with an optimal 5 man farming group that includes my main (shaman), and possibly at some point have a 4 shaman/1 priest pvp group.

Agreed Apatheist provides great info.

I am pretty sure he plans 3 DPS warriors and 2 Healing Paladins often in melee range sealing the main target & I plan on doing a similar configuration. If the content really requires a true Tank I think he would convert one of the warriors although one of the Paladins could be a mana heavy Tank option as well. Maybe he will chime in on this as well as how he plans to drive them.

PVEwise Druid/3War/Shaman would give you a Tank option that could convert to a Healer when Tanking isn't needed. It could also open up some stealth options for you and a give you a battleground flag runner option.

[Apatheist]

My plan at the moment is to level the paladins as holy and the warriors as 2H fury until I get enough hit rating to DW. Whenever necessary you can switch to a 1H/shield and go defensive stance on any of the warriors but most of the time there's no reason to go full protection unless you're raid tanking.

It doesn't really matter which character you drive from. Whichever way is more comfortable for you will work best. Generally with melee teams I prefer to control from the healer since it's easier to manage positioning while your melee IWT.

The DPS from 3-4 warriors will be more than enough to keep agro off your healer, but even if one gets past every now and then both shamans and paladins are tanky enough to take a few hits until you can regain control.

There are quite a few comps that will work well in dungeons. I just prefer melee groups when IWT is available. You could probably even manage dungeons with 4 shamans and a priest if that's your end-goal anyway. Why level up classes you don't really want to play?