Unleash elements + lava burst macro?

[Yahtzee]

It doesn't really matter if it's for pve or pvp, since UE consumes a global cd. As said it's only viable for when you need to move.
The only real scenario where it would be a gain is if you were to pop FS, UE and then Elemental Mastery with Lava Burst. And in that case it's very likely you'll need a mastery proc to go off to get an instant kill.

A solid 5 FS/UE/LaBu would instantly kill most people, aside from maybe tanks or people that stack stamina or "you can't kill me" cool-downs. I'd rather the 30% extra damage on 5 LaBu's hoping to one shot somebody than to hope to get a lightning bolt/chain lightning off after the fact to finish them off before they get healed.

That's not to say you couldn't use LiBo/CL after you sent out your LaBu. I'd just rather use that single second of GCD and heighten a chance at a kill rather than hope I get my second cast off to kill them, but I'd use that second cast either way just in case.

I don't think it's quite the waste you think it is in PvP. I can see where you're coming from about the PvE rotation, though. I can agree with that.

yeah sorry guys i shouldve stated this is for pvp, i only multibox battleground atm

Thanks for the confirmation, I figured as much.

[zenga]

A solid 5 FS/UE/LaBu would instantly kill most people, aside from maybe tanks or people that stack stamina or "you can't kill me" cool-downs. I'd rather the 30% extra damage on 5 LaBu's hoping to one shot somebody than to hope to get a lightning bolt/chain lightning off after the fact to finish them off before they get healed.

That's not to say you couldn't use LiBo/CL after you sent out your LaBu. I'd just rather use that single second of GCD and heighten a chance at a kill rather than hope I get my second cast off to kill them, but I'd use that second cast either way just in case.

I don't know what haste values you have, but I have best in slot pvp gear and almost full bis heroic raid gear, and on nether of them I'm close to a 1 second global cooldown.

So the math is fairly simple: the UE damage + 30% lvb damage does not account to the benefit of a lightning bolt (as I described above): unless you move or use it with EM. If you wanna keep using UE cause you prefer that, by all means be my guest. That doesn't mean you are right though

[Yahtzee]

I don't know what haste values you have, but I have best in slot pvp gear and almost full bis heroic raid gear, and on nether of them I'm close to a 1 second global cooldown.

So the math is fairly simple: the UE damage + 30% lvb damage does not account to the benefit of a lightning bolt (as I described above): unless you move or use it with EM. If you wanna keep using UE cause you prefer that, by all means be my guest. That doesn't mean you are right though

I understand the GCD isn't 1 second, I'll add a tilde for you next time to show the discrepancy. My point was that it was marginal trade-off in the OP's position.

I think you're missing my point entirely. I'm not arguing that the lightning bolt wouldn't do more damage. Yes, lightning bolt would do more damage, you're right, yes, I understand that. I'm saying the extra damage on the lava burst, in a setting where you're playing 4-5 elemental shamans, and thus hitting somebody with 4-5 lava bursts, the 30% extra damage on all of those is the difference between somebody dying and living, and the time between your lava burst hitting somebody and the subsequent lightning bolt hitting them is plenty of reaction time to prevent their death.

Having one less person to worry about in the fray is a lot more beneficial (in my opinion, I stress, opinion) than a stack of lightning shield that you're likely to lose (Like I said, 4.2, I'd be singing a different tune.), the possible chance for extra mana or the extra damage on the chart instead of a killing blow. It's not a 1:1 trade-off in benefit, nor is PvP as clear cut as PvE in terms of what you should be casting when.

You can throw numbers all you want, however, that doesn't mean you are right though. You're welcome to your opinion just as I am welcome to mine, PvP is extremely situational, and I'm sure you're right in some situatons, and I'm sure I'm right in others.

[zenga]

I understand the GCD isn't 1 second, I'll add a tilde for you next time to show the discrepancy. My point was that it was marginal trade-off in the OP's position.

I think you're missing my point entirely. I'm not arguing that the lightning bolt wouldn't do more damage. Yes, lightning bolt would do more damage, you're right, yes, I understand that. I'm saying the extra damage on the lava burst, in a setting where you're playing 4-5 elemental shamans, and thus hitting somebody with 4-5 lava bursts, the 30% extra damage on all of those is the difference between somebody dying and living, and the time between your lava burst hitting somebody and the subsequent lightning bolt hitting them is plenty of reaction time to prevent their death.

Having one less person to worry about in the fray is a lot more beneficial (in my opinion, I stress, opinion) than a stack of lightning shield that you're likely to lose (Like I said, 4.2, I'd be singing a different tune.), the possible chance for extra mana or the extra damage on the chart instead of a killing blow. It's not a 1:1 trade-off in benefit, nor is PvP as clear cut as PvE in terms of what you should be casting when.

You can throw numbers all you want, however, that doesn't mean you are right though. You're welcome to your opinion just as I am welcome to mine, PvP is extremely situational, and I'm sure you're right in some situatons, and I'm sure I'm right in others.

First off, after reading my previous post again it may sound cocky, like a dick, etc ... that's not my intention so apologies if you felt it like that.

I don't think I'm missing your point. You say that the total damage (multiplied by amount of ele's in your team) from FS+UE+lvB will kill a player. And that it's *better* than FS+LvB+LB/CL to global one. Your main argument being that a healer can react between LvB and and LB/CL.

And again what you forget is your ramp up time: FS + gcd, UE + gcd, LvB cast. There are 2 global cooldowns and a lava burst cast time between applying fs and when your LvB hits, or nearly 4 seconds (less if you have extreme haste times and glyph of shocking). In this setting you only have LvB that can proc mastery.

I'm saying FS + gcd, LvB cast (+ mastery), CL/LB cast (+ mastery) grants you more chance to kill a target, simply because it does more damage in the same timeframe.

Now assume the healer isn't completely retarded, in your approach he has 1 extra global cooldown time to react to the target than in what I'm saying. The amount of time the healer has for a dispell or a cooldown/big heal on the target is in your scenario longer than in mine. In either scenario the healer has a chance to get a heal off, but due to the fact that CL/LB can proc mastery you deal more damage in roughly the same amount of time by NOT casting UE, and increasing your chances for a kill.

For the record, I've said that EM+UE/LvB is a valid method, as well as UE being cool when you are on the move. And we are talking 4.1 here.

[Yahtzee]

First off, after reading my previous post again it may sound cocky, like a dick, etc ... that's not my intention so apologies if you felt it like that.

I don't think I'm missing your point. You say that the total damage (multiplied by amount of ele's in your team) from FS+UE+lvB will kill a player. And that it's *better* than FS+LvB+LB/CL to global one. Your main argument being that a healer can react between LvB and and LB/CL.

And again what you forget is your ramp up time: FS + gcd, UE + gcd, LvB cast. There are 2 global cooldowns and a lava burst cast time between applying fs and when your LvB hits, or nearly 4 seconds (less if you have extreme haste times and glyph of shocking). In this setting you only have LvB that can proc mastery.

I'm saying FS + gcd, LvB cast (+ mastery), CL/LB cast (+ mastery) grants you more chance to kill a target, simply because it does more damage in the same timeframe.

Now assume the healer isn't completely retarded, in your approach he has 1 extra global cooldown time to react to the target than in what I'm saying. The amount of time the healer has for a dispell or a cooldown/big heal on the target is in your scenario longer than in mine. In either scenario the healer has a chance to get a heal off, but due to the fact that CL/LB can proc mastery you deal more damage in roughly the same amount of time by NOT casting UE, and increasing your chances for a kill.

For the record, I've said that EM+UE/LvB is a valid method, as well as UE being cool when you are on the move. And we are talking 4.1 here.

I know that wasn't your intention, I just have a bad habit of taking the tone of the post I'm replying to. Sorry if I was a little crass.

I can agree with all of that, however, I still think UE has a use, even without EM. Those dispels are going to be ridiculous in 4.2 though. Granting 90% haste? Yikes. I wonder if healers will think twice about dispelling it.

[zenga]

I know that wasn't your intention, I just have a bad habit of taking the tone of the post I'm replying to. Sorry if I was a little crass.

I can agree with all of that, however, I still think UE has a use, even without EM. Those dispels are going to be ridiculous in 4.2 though. Granting 90% haste? Yikes. I wonder if healers will think twice about dispelling it.

No worries. And yeah UE has a use when you are for instance locked out of your nature school. However come 4.2 UE will also belong in nature school. But I find myself not that often in a stand still situation in bg's. Sometimes you move out a bit for whatever reason, and then UE definitely is worth casting.

And yeah In 4.2 if I was a healer I'd rather have the target eat a LvB crit then having to deal with a 90% haste, unless he is really low on dmg and you want to prevent to get him killed then a quick dispell followed by a big cd might be better.

Still my expectation from what I've seen on ptr is that health pool / stamina won't scale as much as spell power does, so quad ele shamans will be back to globalling people.

[Yahtzee]

No worries. And yeah UE has a use when you are for instance locked out of your nature school. However come 4.2 UE will also belong in nature school. But I find myself not that often in a stand still situation in bg's. Sometimes you move out a bit for whatever reason, and then UE definitely is worth casting.

And yeah In 4.2 if I was a healer I'd rather have the target eat a LvB crit then having to deal with a 90% haste, unless he is really low on dmg and you want to prevent to get him killed then a quick dispell followed by a big cd might be better.

Still my expectation from what I've seen on ptr is that health pool / stamina won't scale as much as spell power does, so quad ele shamans will be back to globalling people.

I can see a lot of trigger finger healers dispelling it and regretting it shortly after. Going to be pretty comical.

I'm really excited to hear that, also really glad the season is ending. I spent most of my time this tier raiding solo on my druid and didn't pick back up my box team until way too late into the season, so I'm basically stuck a tier of gear behind everyone else, which really sucks. Going to be nice to stand on even ground again and start fresh.

[death]

yeah i agree yahtzee, i just gotta find a healer and get used to arena again....just finishing getting boA's for my druids