Cataclysm: The Ret Paladin- AKA Multi-Box Burst PVP Machines.

[Shodokan]

Its either a freebie skill (use when GCD is available) or a useless skill. Sharing CD with CS pretty much means this is near useless in pvp. and I thought the weapon dmg was gonna be 80% , not 60%.

So ya, it is a PVE AOE cleave on trash mobs. not so useful in other situations.

Not saying it is a saving grace for the comp, but it helps a little.

[Noids]

I thought they had changed it to 80% on Beta which I assume is still a build ahead of live.

Depends on how the 40% chance for HP gen works I guess. If it is on hit then perhaps multiple mobs will give multiple 40% chances for a proc.

[Mosg2]

The damage is still much lower than CS. I think it's pretty clear we use DS when there's 3+ mobs around us and CS when we're PvP'ing and/or on a single target.

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

[Shodokan]

The damage is still much lower than CS. I think it's pretty clear we use DS when there's 3+ mobs around us and CS when we're PvP'ing and/or on a single target.

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

We can still cleanse movement impairing effects with a talent... which helps mobility not hurt it.

[BrothelMeister]

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

According to Palee, the only 2k+ DK+4 Ret team last season, since he knew Cata was removing cleanses ability to remove magic, he never even used it.

Since in Cata cleanse will still remove all movement impairing effects, and Hand of freedom can have 100% uptime on the DK, and judgements boost movement speed by 45%, what more mobility are you looking for?

[Mosg2]

Judgements only boost movement speed when they're 15+ yards away. The Cleanse thing is nice but it doesn't help as much as you think--All you're Cleansing really is the movement impairing stuff on yourself, which means you need to not be CC'd. In their heyday you could Cleanse the rest of the team--I think this is a big point.

I'm interested to see how the WoG healing pans out. On live it's very binary--Full or dead. 4x WoG is like 40-50k in healing with decent gear. The steady trickle healing of DS was niiiiice.

Though, I must admit that I might be looking through my "4 DK" tinted glasses.

[remanz]

This is as good as we can get with melee boxing. if This doesn't work, the melee boxing in pvp is dead. Unless somehow the 5 cats work out, I don't see anything that's better.

I am not too worried about pvp with dk + rets. I do, worried a bit about the initial heroic grind with full melee team that doesn't have a dedicated healer. That might be a pain with all the boss AOEs. I think we need at least the tank to out gear the heroic to be able to do it.

[Mosg2]

I think that Healer+4 DK's is going to outshine the Rets in every way. 8x Necrotic Strikes every 10 seconds means your target is getting zero healing. They're also getting pummeled with a Mind Freeze every 2.5 seconds.

I'm just saying.

[remanz]

Necrotic Strikes, does it stack ?

I can't imagine this thing would stack if it is indeed that good. It is almost like mortal strike stacking from the old days, 50% than - another 50% after that etc.

Even if it stacks now, I would definitely not invest on 4dk just based on those as I can't see blizzard would let it be.

as for Healer + 4 DK, we are going back to 4 + 1 vs 5 issue again. If i have a healer, I rather box shaman.

[Mosg2]

I'm running the Paladin main as a healer with the 4 DK's frost. It's insane--And more fun than the DK+Rets ever were for me.

I'm not concerned about whether or not NS stacks--It doesn't make a difference to me. With the way my DPS key works now the target will be getting at least 8x NS in 10 seconds and should never get 4x at once. It should be 1-2, a second or two, 1-2, etc.

I mean, we'll see what happens but... I love this team.