[How-to] 5x Paladins Disscusion

[Stealthy]

Ok so my paladins are 80 and lets just say i'm none too impressed. I run 1 prot and 4 ret, they are wearing mostly deadly gear (did close to 100 AV victories on each /wrists) and I can so far only kill Trollgore and the last guy in Draktheron. Granted they are only using De-Rage Waraxe for the main and I am actively searching for Titansteel Destroyers (no one makes these anymore), but the dps leaves a lot to be desired. Trollgore takes 1min20secs to kill which is 4 x slower than my shaman (who are obviously more geared). However the problem I am running into is mana.

Take the frost boss for example. I get him down to about 120k and my guys are OOM. Everyone. Including the prot because his only heals are from Divine Storm (which is really all he needs.) So I switched all slaves to the glyph that gives 8% mana back when you judge with Seal of Command active. (Used to use the glyph that gave 12 expertise when using Seal of Vindication.) Even using this they are still running oom. It's frustrating really. How do they expect this class to play if they are always oom?

I run the Niley's superlong macro for Ret PvE dpsing and I also use Divine Shield/Divine Sacrifice on round robin to reduce group damage. At this point I am considering shelving the paladin group and going back full time to 5xshaman for pvp slaughter. Oh and that's another thing. Holy crap can mages kite the everliving shit out of your group and thats with DS, Hand of Freedom, Cleanse. I F*cking hate mages. They make you look so stupid.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I wasnt expecting awesomesauce from the getgo, but considering most of my gear is ileve213 and three have i226 helms(PvE BoE), I just dont really see how it can get much better. Maybe using pvp gear aint all that and that's my problem. They need more mana regen as a group and I just dont see how it can get any better than the judgement talent + the glyph.

p.s. mad props to the guy who used 5 paladins to down H ToC. I see now how truly insane that is.

p.p.s. anyone notice that paladins are mad aggro? Halfway through fight Im having to taunt shit off them and this is with a 35k unbuffed health tank. I shouldnt have that much trouble. Yes I have the right ret talents, it's the same cookie cutter one everyone takes.

Can you link your armory for your prot and ret spec'd guys...? I'd like to check out your spec, and more importantly your glyphs...

When I started, my rets were in the pvp blue crafted set...sad I know! But mana has never been that big an issue for me.

Anyway, some of the following may be "captain obvious" material, but I usually find it's good to make sure you have the basics covered first, and then look at some of other issues in depth....so here goes!

1. DON'T USE SEAL OF COMMAND. It's bad...really bad. Even for PvP (although it's getting a buff next patch). Instead use Seal of Vengeance / Corruption. Once you land a full stack of dots you'll be doing way more DPS than you ever would with Command.

2. Sacred Shield should always be up...ALWAYS! Ok...bit of a no brainer, but its easy to forget to re-apply it. You should also have 2 points in Divine Guardian so SS will last for 60 secs and the damage absorbed is buffed by 20%. Apart from the damage shield, it also gives you a HoT for the same amount healed by FoL over 12 secs, and increases the chance for FoL to crit by 50%. And of course FoL crits proc Sheath of Light (which SS also scales with btw), so you can end up with 2 HoTs going at once for each cast....this spell is AWESOMESAUCE!!

3. Divine Plea - should always be up on your main (if you have 2 points in Guarded By The Light). Use on your rets just before combat ends or inbetween combat (becuase the reduces the effectiveness of your heals by 50%).

4. Judgements - Light / Wisdom / Justice and repeat for whichever two you want to make sure land. Judgements don't stack anymore, so you'll only ever see these three debuffs on the target. Very important to note - while judgements cannot be blocked or parried, they can still miss if you are not hit capped. A missed judgement is VERY bad for rets, becuase you will miss the proc from Judgements of the Wise (which all your rets should have 3 points in), which means missing out on a big chunk of mana back.

5. Generating Threat - Apart from the obvious one of making sure Righteous Fury is active (especially recasting after a wipe) you can get a quick lead on agro by pulling with Hand of Reckoning and immediately following up with Avenger's Shield. Consecration and Hammer of the Righteous (which you should also have glyphed) are essential for group pulls. Shield of Righteousness and Hold Shield for single target threat. Prot pallies spell power is based on strength, so if you're fidning theat is a problem, you can try gemming / enchanting for more strength. A note on Divine Storm - for group pulls divine storm crits can pull adds if used too early. I set my rotation up so that my main gets off consecration and Hammer of the Righteous before Divine Storm gets cast, which lets him get a handy threat lead...

6. Healing - never heal with your main if possible, since when you cast spells, you can't block or parry.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
S.