I think its saying the actions multiboxers use can be mistaken for botting behavior..including the alts going afk while on follow.. maybe someone that speaks German and english can translate for us?
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I think its saying the actions multiboxers use can be mistaken for botting behavior..including the alts going afk while on follow.. maybe someone that speaks German and english can translate for us?
From what I read, it sounds like multiboxing is okay and not a reason for a suspension.
But that a multiboxer is easily mistaken as having the same characteristics as the bots...
same as what all the tickets have said to us all. and even phone calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
as for software i got temped with key clone as well so nothing to do with software its whatever ever blizzard tools/report afk uses and blizzard said in many blue posts they updated the report tool and my own testing its easy to get players temp banned using report afk try it with starter accounts @ level 10 reporting you self a few times.)
Sorry for any confusion, I merged etal's thread. I also added another google translation to etal's OP and it indeed looks just like every other Blue response out there. "False positive...we don't have issue with multiboxing, sorry about that...Blah blah blah."
This is the last message I received from a GM. It gives some explanation.
I am very sorry for an inconveniences in regards to our Actioning System suspending and locking your World of Warcraft accounts. We are not able to grant our information on the details of the actions other than that the accounts were reported for AFK for a large amount of times which caused our system to check it. While it has parameters to prevent legitimate players from being actioned, there are false positives.
I have removed all suspensions and marks on the accounts that were hit and all former hits, however I cannot prevent future actions. I have sent the data to our Development Team to fine tune the Actioning System, but while they are doing that, false positives may still occur.
Game Master XXXXXXXX
Customer Services
Blizzard Entertainment
battle.net/support
Guess you just have to make sure you do not go afk..if people report you but your NOT afk.. you should be fine.. remember you can be fighting on your following toons and still be afk. you have to jump or interact with something and break follow ( i think? )
Anyway.. until they get a better handle on this.. I'm still scared to box in BGs.. Even if i get suspended for a few hours .. thats like taking a crack pipe and crack away and saying "ill tell you where it is in 3 hours(days) SUFFER until then!" I need my fix NOW!!!
Finally a 100% truthful response. Buy that GM a pony because he apologized, said it may continue to happen in the future, did not assign blame to the multiboxer, and said he could not share info about the banning system but that he would forward the data. Personally I think the response above should be included with every ticket a multiboxer opens to show the CSEs and GMs what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percocet10n1
I cant believe it took 21 pages of posts before I felt like things were getting better.
Blizzard usually tries to give out just as much information as they can get away with, and if there is enough pressure to elaborate, they eventually do so. There are (IMO) good reasons to take that approach, but it leaves people hanging in the wind on occasions like this. Keep in mind that they are unlikely to offer an ETA for resolving the issue, nor will they accounce it when they have something more reliable in place.
So it sounds like you should be more active in BGs? If you have them on auto-follow that's fine, but maybe more active. I haven't been banned for doing AV yet (knock on wood) this weekend. I try not to sit in any towers, but sweep the general area killing horde that are trying to back cap. I don't know if that's the correct formula, but it seems to be working for the moment.
edit: I also just remembered that I break auto follow a lot. If I think I'm going to be standing around for a bit then I don't have it on.
Damn, Blaster had an account suspended today. All my theories are out the door.
without doing battlegrounds at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
Ironically, the whole oQueue system... or at least queuing multiple groups at once, with a premade, to get as many people as possible into the same BG at once is protection against the current Blizzard system.
If you had a perfect queue (which you never get for the bonus honor battleground, due to the sheer number who are queuing... so IoC during AV weekend and AV during any non-AV weekend), that would be 40 players all in the same raid and working together.
No one on your side should report you, in that situation.
The current issue is exacerbated by having so many randoms in our BGs to report us...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
That is the problem in a nutshell.
If you eliminate the randoms from the BGs it will eliminate the problem. As multiboxers we need to stick together and do our so-called randoms together.
Void got suspended tonight in a skype call... yeah... fuck this.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, I think everyone needs to call and have them reversed every time.
unless they are closed and your suspension is up before they open.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGabriel
If you call they can also remove the flag on your account that would increase the chances for auto-suspension, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
Yes, once you get on the radar the punishments have a snow ball effect. I reached the 3 day suspension... (Not 3 hours, but 3 days) After 8 Suspensions in 3 days I just shut down my accounts. I did this mainly as a protest, even though they have evidently cleared my record, until they fix the problem I won't be sending them money. I'm just one guy, but if I can't play the way I want too then I don't see the need to send them any money.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGabriel
Again, how will you know when it's fixed? I understand canceling in protest, but I don't understand canceling until its fixed. There likely won't be an announcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percocet10n1
I was given a 3 hour suspension after "several warnings". I was never given a warning. Just suspended. By the nature of their obvious "premade" form letter, it seems they are harassing boxers into quitting. They give two blanket replies which don't even specify the violation beyond "exploitation" and say they have investigated and confirmed the violation.
I wrote that I had cancelled all of my accounts and they didn't even acknowledge it; they just stated they would not reply to any further inquiries on this issue. I think there is a potential class action in this as they are creating damages by taking our money and not allowing us to play without giving us a specific reason for the bans. As such we are likely to violate the mystery policy over and over, losing game time while continuing to pay.
They have said on the record many times that boxing is fine and I have been boxing the same way for many years. In fact I was thinking I hadn't changed anything on my teams forever, even my macros need updating. It reminds me of when insurance companies would deny claims with blanket form letters claiming "preexisting condition" without actually looking at the condition. Like the insurance scenario we are paying a premium but are not getting the benefit of our bargain and the burden of proof is shifted to us. In the meantime we pay and they take away our game time.
There has been a long course of dealing with boxers where the exact behavior we are doing now was approved by Blizzard and they continued taking our money for years with full knowledge of that behavior. They now seem to be changing the rules but are refusing to say in what way. This only creates uncertainty and resentment and I for one have had it with Blizzard.
oh god, here we goQuote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket
yeah let's sue them. we're all out $75 at least
I realize I overreacted. I just feel cheated by a long time friend. : (Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
No she was doing AV during the weekend. I asked if she used any scripts to enter the BGs and she doesn't. I wish I had videos of everyone boxing that gets a suspension so I can see if there is any link. I boxed all weekend and didn't get any suspensions.Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
I logged in after not playing for a week. I did 2 normal BG's (AV, we won both). Then I did 3 RBG and lost all 3. Did 1 arena and lost. 5 min after that arena 3/4 shamans were suspended. Odd part is i was running 5 chars in the normal bg(druid+4shaman) and 4 chars in rated bg+arena. I don't understand the method to being flagged. If it were the normal BG's that flagged me wouldn't it have suspended the 4 shamans in tow? In this case it seemed like it was the rated bg or the arena that flagged me because it was the 3 shaman in tow that got the suspension. Pretty much done at this point. They assured me in my last petition that it would be fixed and yet it still happens. Unsure where to go from here.
I've been playing a long time and have made a lot of friends that multi box. So it's just a matter of keeping in touch and updated. There's also the forums to watch, here and a couple of other places. Good question though. I also expect that if things do change people will post it here. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Owltoid
Strangely they just suspended two more of my accounts, I guess from playing yesterday. I haven't even played since I cancelled all my accounts. So now they are suspending my cancelled accounts. Same reason:
Type of Violation: PvP Arena/Battleground Exploitation
Details of Incident: Exploitation of PvP Battlegrounds and the honor system
Consequences for Account: Account suspended for 3 hours
Yeh i have cancelled my subs on 9 out of 10 accounts.
The trouble to box and get suspensions for doing nothing wrong is just not worth the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket
I could care less about a small percentage (3 hours here or there) of each account's $15 cost, at least in monetary terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
It's the disruption of game time...
However, even if someone were to launch a class action suit...
Blizzard is probably covered, as they don't guarantee uninterrupted game service or the like.
I'd imagine they have a team of lawyers who have designed their EULA and Terms of Service...
That said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease...
At the moment, the masses are incorrectly reporting us as AFK (even though we're not AFK), because they dislike boxing.
And these AFK reports are resulting in automatic suspensions.
Boxers might make up 1% or 2% of the player base, a very small percentage anyway.
So we have a small number of people complaining about the new system.
And a large number are relatively happy with it, as they can report away... so far without repercussion.
If a larger percentage of the player base were unhappy with the current system, that would be a much squeakier wheel.
However, randomly or intentionally reporting everyone in your BG on a consistent basis is likely a bad idea.
Once enough people are complaining, for Blizzard to remove/modify the functionality of the system... they will likely look at who is reporting non-AFKs as AFK.
While I don't have any issue with the assholes who are reporting boxers receiving a penalty, receiving one myself for reporting others AFK is not something I want.
It is tempting though...
For you guys that are cancelling your subs. While I canceled my sub because the game changed to make it so I couldn't enjoy the game anymore I would like to think I was sending a message to blizzard that they will be loosing my business unless things change. That being said, we are by far in the minority. Realistically saying cancelling our subs, or even if all the boxers out there cancelled their subs it would probably not come up on the radar. We are just flea's on a elephant's back.
For instance. I searched out this recent activity of suspensions and bans via the WoW forums. Everyone that I came a crossed was closed. Meaning even if you went to complain via the forum's about what is happening to you, blizzard doesn't really care. They won't talk about in a public forum other then saying that yes, multi-boxing is allowed. But try to fix an issue where you are being what is in my opinion harassed or targeted via the game mechanics and they will not even acknowledge that you exist. Understand that the WoW community is not a democracy, and that it is more like a dictatorship. What they say or don't say goes. You, as an individual do not have much input when it comes down to the bottom dollar as a boxer.
So if you are closing your accounts, or taking some time off, realize that blizzard really doesn't care. Do it because you don't want to waste your money on a game that has changed and isn't fun for you to play anymore. If you can't find another aspect of the game, other then BG's to enjoy about the game then turn it off. Move on and enjoy your life.
Don't close your accounts because you want to make blizzard to know that you as an individual customer are not happy. They don't care. I would personally like to think that blizzard as an entity would consider me closing my 5 accounts a big deal, but realistically my 5 accounts are all ready paid for. They are just loosing out on monthly charges and there are way too many single account players to make up for my little insignificant protest.
yeah, I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percocet10n1
whenever you start with "X happened [or didn't happen] on the public forums therefore Y" you're on the wrong track.
I would venture to say a for-profit company does care when you cancel your account considering you just stopped paying them. They won't make a instant or drastic change to something overnight because a couple multiboxers unsubbed. Responses from multiple GMs have stated the development team is looking into it.
I take it that 40 man boxer doesn't get suspended. Saw his stream available today.
I have yet to receive any type of suspension
They do care.
They want to make a profit, and every account counts towards that end.
If you cancel your accounts, they want to know why.
Presumably, so they can change so others like you won't cancel too.
That said, any given account is a drop in the bucket.
If you do cancel, it isn't really going to be hurting Blizzard by any large amount.
Ultimately, they'll do whatever is in the best interests of the game, in terms of what will get the most subscription dollars.
Not really relevant since probably every GM knows who that person is. If I had to guess, I'd say that guy has been reported at least 10 times every single time he's logged in and moved anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Tire
I have to disagree with this as well. Account issues are a private matter and a public forum is not a place people should seek assistance. Most people know this and they would have been assisted with any account issues via a ticket attached to their BNet account or a phone call, not a forum post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percocet10n1
Spoke with him right after i got suspended, he said he would try AV the next day, The next day he wrote me and said he had a few accts suspended while he was in av. So it affected him as well. Since my first suspension me and derek have been runnin bgs with no problems tho. The gm i finally spoke with said my account actions were amended and hanvt had any problems. they way i look at it if it starts happening to me ill keep playing. in the end if all my accounts get shut down then it will save me $285 a month so its whatever really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Tire
I cancelled my subs every month and said it was due to rogues being OP in PvP... then they got nerfed hard for MoP... coincidence? I don't care, still happy lol :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Percocet10n1
For years I always chose "Will of the Forsaken Nerf" every time I needed to unsub. They left that one on there for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by valkry
It never got buffed :(
Someone else higher in the chain of authority @ blizzard probably doesn't even know about this or how it has affected us multiboxers. Perhaps we should send a few Emails to their senior programmers :)
They are just focusing on the automation of suspending the true botters, thus "in effect" affecting us by this new method. I find it difficult to believe with their technology, they are unable to flag our accounts as "ok'd" accounts for boxing. They have IP's they can track, account payment tracking, ect... I'm certain the bottling ratio to legit boxers is huge, thus making it easier to flag our accounts as being ok.
While we are just "fleas on an elephants back" as it was said before, if those fleas reach a particular area of that elephant, this would most likely be looked into a little deeper.
Without account flags the automated system would need to be turned off. Also they'd need to individually investigate every "multi-boxer" to prove that are indeed a boxer but after that point you'd be able to freely bot or whatever since your account would basically be immune to that punishment due to the mechanics of the system at that point. That would also require an initial ban and appeal to get it done which in itself is a bad system and unfair to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ñightsham
Has anyone here been hit that doesn't play a melee class in bgs? (any melee at all)