Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Sounds about right. Its a whole new game coming.
With all these changes I feel like I got sucker punched.
In other news, Cataclysm will be delayed until 2012 to coincide with the end of the Mayan Calendar.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Sounds about right. Its a whole new game coming.
With all these changes I feel like I got sucker punched.
In other news, Cataclysm will be delayed until 2012 to coincide with the end of the Mayan Calendar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owltoid
If you're right , these talents will probably be all cookie cutters.
So either you don't gain talents every other level and there are times where you gain points in consectutive levels, or this news is so fresh that it's being released because of the RealID mess. I understand that they said "about every 2 levels" but I'm wondering if Blizz is really on their heels and trying to release any info they can to distract the masses. I know, it's a continuation of Svper's conspiracy joke, but how is it they wouldn't have extended the Alpha if making this big of a change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehmuffinman
76 ÷ 2 <> 41
Acknowledging the fact he said "about every 2 levels" and than complaining the math doesn't work out makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Owltoid
And I highly doubt if the cap is 41pts someone is going to spend 38 in one tree. You cannot work out the percentages the same way by comparing them to existing talent trees (And yes FYI I have 55 points in Resto on my shaman, which is pretty common). The percents won't work out the same way because talents that aren't being removed will most likely have their talent point requirements reduced (something that took 5 points before might now cost 2 points).
The math was there to show others what I was talking about.
The 38 was based on my incorrect assumption that it was every other level (the 82% is 31÷38)
I don't know. The only bad part about this, to me, is that you'd be locked into a tree until level 70. I mean come on, how many actually viable builds are there that don't predominantly take from one tree? Restokin? Maybe some hybrid DK tanking spec?
This change will make it ten times easier for them to balance the game because they can just tweak the actual percentages you get from having a tree be your "main" tree instead of having to mess with each individual ability. They said they're not removing any abilities or any of the cool mechanics--Just the trashy "spend five points here for X% dmg increase" stuff.
The RealID thing to me is much worse news :)
this is based on the assumption that the new trees will function like the old ones. the reason we currently split up amongst the other trees is because we can and its better right now. but once its simplified and they mess around with the talents like it seems theyre going to it will probably be the case that you want your talents primarily in one tree. take naturalist for example. its a second tier druid resto talent that reduces healing touches cast time by 0.5 sec and increases physical damage by 10% at 5 points. if they move that bonus into the feral tree where it belongs and leave the resto part of it in the resto tree then i wont be tempted to venture into the resto tree to get it like i am now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Owltoid
Druids are a good example. Most moonkins spec into resto with their remaining points so they can get master shapeshifter. It's the better DPS choice. However, I prefer going for feral swiftness for increased movement while stealthed. While it sucks that I have 5 wasted points in feral that are totally useless to a moonkin, at least I can get the ability I'd rather have. It makes the game more fun, and makes the toon feel more like I customized him.
All I can do is repeat that I understand why Blizz is doing this. I'm a bit surprised that so many people are happy about having options taken away. Then again, maybe you guys are more optimistic and believe there will be lots of variety inside one talent tree that allows for as much customization as the old method of using multiple talent trees.
I just love the line they used...
"The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful"
I've never felt so good about having things taken away...
I change my talent spec depending on what im doing. My raiding spec is one way. My new Heroic raiding spec is slightly different, and my heroic 5 man rape the dungeon build is totally different as well. I do not like the idea of removing options and forceing a minimum in one tree before you can put points into another.
I also see that this will force people into one tree for levels 1-85. Take a paladin, Everyone is going to go ret to level and quest. No one is going to level as prot or holy. This means max level toons who have no idea how to play their class. You think the current wait for 10-20min to LFD as a dps is bad now. Its going to get worse. Now I cant even take a point to help tank if I wanted to. Im stuck as a pure dps class unless I go to town and drop gold to respec.
Sometimes, just sometimes, we make arguments like "that's retarded" more as a literary device to express a particularly concerning angle or more than might be obvious in written text, rather than as online confirmation that we're actually smashing mirrors in our Mom's basement and selling our WoW-themed big wheel and action figure sets in a fit of pique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bot
This is great news. Talent trees have gotten way too big, and so many talents were just filler. It seems they have pruned every worthless talent, and rather than give us an overabundance of talent points, they just scale them down. It's the same stuff as before, but less diluted. This also lets them have more control over hybrid specs that they do not want (i.e. elemental shamans dual wielding, and getting a lot of extra spellpower from flametongue and weapon enchant.) Great news IMO.
My accounts have been cancelled. I'll fiddle a bit until they run out, then I'll just be watching you guys until it's safe to play again. :) This big of a change will probably mean a ton of patch, FoTM, patch, FoTM cycles. Thanks for the info, and all your opinions. See ya!
I love these changes.
You think you have choice now but you dont. Whats a ret paladin without divine storm and crusader strike? What makes an ele shaman all that different from resto other than a slight change in cast time and thunderstorm / earth shield?
To be Prot - truely be a prot pally you need to go all the way up and get holy shield and hammer of the righteous. Now you can feel like the class you are at level 10 and not at level SEVENTY or SIXTY.
This means they can REALLY balance a specialization and not balance TALENTS. Its their game design, they WANT disc priests using penance as part of their playstyle. They expect enhance to Dual Wield etc.
You see so many shit players who have no fucking clue what they are doing with their talents. I bet 80% of players goto Elitist Jerks and use the first talent build for raiding they can find. I would rather have a more empowered lower common player who is given more hints and clues on what Blizzard envisioned the playstyle of that class to be than some hunter running around wearing spell power gear or thinking he is a melee character.
I am very very keen on these changes and the reduction in boring talents. WHy do I want to spend 5 levels getting 5% to hit at level 35 or something. These changes plus quest changes will probably see me rolling new teams again and enjoying the game afresh.
I guess I just don't give a sh*t about leveling. It's a means to an end. I hope they didn't screw up endgame just to make leveling less painful.
haha i know most of yall arent truly spazzing out i just hate to see all the negativity when we all know its gonna be ok in the end :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz
The talent changes plus mastery system will give us more choice than before and make the game way more balanced. Instead of having to adjust specific talents and stuff, they can just increase the benefit you get from mastery. I think it'll be awesome in the end.
For all of you who are worried about losing options and customization, you aren't losing anything except those mandatory +hit, +haste, +crit, +range, -cast time talents. If you look at even the most extraneous talent specs that you come up with for raids or 5 man etc, you're still taking many of the same talents. Even a restokin and a resto druid are taking some of the same "mandatory" talents. And it's not like they're just taking those talents and keeping the extras the same anyway. I'm sure we'll say bye to many talents and abilities we have now, and welcome with open arms new talents with new abilities more suited for that specific tree.
It reminds me of that show Hoarders. You probably only use a few objects on your desk, but you like to keep a bunch of random things because one day you might need them. It's just an illusion, you don't have more choice simply because you have more options. You just feel less anxious when you don't feel as confined. Like when you keep all your receipts because one day in the future, you think that you will be arrested and questioned for murder, and you then can say, "wait, I purchased a 50c donut at dunkin donuts on July 14th, 1993 at 8:42 a.m., therefore I could not have murdered this man."
But we don't. We hope it will be okay in the end, but that could just be wishful thinking. I don't think the sky is falling, but to turn around and say that everything will be great without fail is just as naive. It remains to be seen if the game will be better or worse. Chances are that even when the game is released people will disagree if it is good or bad. Either opinion is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bot
- Souca -
Naysayers need to chill out or go vent on wow.com's forums.
Opinions are unsubstantiated by ANYONE at this point and should not be taken as gospel.
I don't know many people who don't follow a cookie-cutter build for at LEAST 80% of their talents... that's what this is aimed to remove, by just giving you the mastery bonuses of those talents and letting you choose the coolest ones you want for your talent spec.
What it also means, is that the final 31pt talents will be good, and I would imagine necessary for your spec. No, you cant spec into blood / unholy as a DK anymore, or resto / Boomkin anymore, but they are addressing the issues, and you need to stfu until they are released and there's more info out there.
If you want to nerd rage and quit the game NOW, at the first sight of these new changes, after however many countless hours invested, then you need to just go rant in the wow forums where you MAY even get a response from a blue and leave your negativity to them.
I come here to hear constructive debates of news and events, not to hear your silly undeserved opinions run rampant.
winQuote:
Originally Posted by ughmahedhurtz
I <3 U McWrathy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokoi
WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokoi
There are plenty of decaffeinated brands on the market that taste just as good.
- Souca -
See, I keep trying to get riled up about this. I think point locking sucks because I always hopped trees to get something. Like my Tankadin popping into ret for Deflection, Imp Judgements and Benediction. But I keep coming back to "Well, I don't know how things are going to look. Maybe I won't NEED to spend talents on stuff like that anymore." That's what it looks like they're trying to do.
So I guess I'm gonna go on with my wait and see attitude, because nothing's final until 6 months AFTER expansions come out. Besides, it's not like I have to wait for anything cool. All the toons I could ever want to play are sitting at 80, so I have no desire or need to level again. I'll only be pointlocked for about 30 seconds.
I'm hoping we'll still be able to go the equivalent of 51pt + 21pt talents, in the same build.
It is cookie cutter, in that everyone will eventually have at least 31 points in their primary specialization, and 10 more points (or whatever) elsewhere. So you won't see super hybrid builds like 20/20/21 or whatever... but with fewer filler talents and core abilities at 10th and beyond, this could be a very nice change.
The jury is out, but we shall see soon enough.
Wow.. you're really on a roll these past couple nights. Notice.. I quoted your post this time so you can't edit it to save face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokoi
You complain about nerd raging and this post reeks of it.
Quote:
Opinions are unsubstantiated by ANYONE at this point and should not be taken as gospel.
So.. to prove opinions are unsubstantiated.. you include your own opinion. A+ in Hypocrisy, or hell even A+ in proving a point(LOLIDOUBTIT)Quote:
What it also means, is that the final 31pt talents will be good, and I would imagine necessary for your spec.
No one made you come into this thread. There is obviously more interest in this topic than just what you want to see.. I mean.. 7 pages.. wow. But lets just change the forum to Mokoi-boxing.com so we can all cater to what you want to read.Quote:
I come here to hear constructive debates of news and events, not to hear your silly undeserved opinions run rampant
Mokoi-Approved General Forums
etc.
I don't know what the hell your problem is, or why you think you're all high and god damn mighty.. but don't sit back and point the finger at everyone else.. crying "NERD RAGE THIS" "EMO THAT" when you're just as guilty. Grow the hell up.
Your entire rant last night was about people who made a mistake and made other guildmates feel unwelcome.. so now you go off on all the forum posters in this thread.. wafflewafflewafflewaffle
edit: PS Nice touch on including your silly undeserved opinion.. by calling others opinions silly and undeserving. Nice touch!
People need to chill out.
It's a BETA
Do you realize how much stuff changed during wrath beta? A metric shit ton. So if you're NOT in the BETA, chill out and lets wait and see what comes. AFAIK, they've never done such a massive talent direction change on a dime like this. This seems pretty crazy to do IMO, but they must have a good idea of what their doing.
If you want to nerdrage about it, join the massive posts on WoW Forums.
I like the new changes to the talent trees. There where way to many booring and shitty talents you just had to pick to get a to one of the juicy talents.
Now they just need to overhaul the stat stuff to make this a bit more simple aswell.
I hate the fact that you have to search the web to find out you need to be crit immune witha 263 def whatever point before you are a viable tank... stuff like that suck. It's not intuitive to players like me.
You have all these stats avaliable as one class and some suck and some are good. Like if you play a druid cat. Should you go for crit or should you go for agility? or boomkins, speel power or crit?
The answers to the most beneficial stats are on different website or you can test it out yourself in game....
I guess its to add "debt" to the game, that they add all these stats for the different classes... oh well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldum
For sure, having to spend 5 points just to get mana tide totem was just insane. Talents were just going to get bigger and bigger and hybrid specs were going to get very powerful.
I think this is a really good thing for boxers, will have to wait until its implemented but imo its a good thing.
For me personally if this gets rid of unnecessary but sometimes necessary key binds I will be very happy. I know its kinda dumbing down the game a bit but when you get to your 30s you will understand thats not entirely a bad thing. lol
His point is still valid and you're vastly overreacting imo. We got a 7 pages long post going on about a change, on which hardly any information has be released and there's allready an abundance of people thinking about quiting over the change. Even though there's no possibility you have any idea how the change will effect the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlesticks
there's this slightly minor chance that it's actually a positive thing. But we don't expect that i guess.
Aparantly a lot of people didn't read the blue post before they responded, which doesn't help a lot.
Lol, I see more nerdrage coming from those who are complaining about those who don't like the change. Then again, I'm biased.
I never understood the viewpoint of not being negative on a proposed idea until you see how it pans out. What is a discussion forum for in the first place if you don't sometime have opposing viewpoints?
I mentioned over and over again that I agree with Blizzards changes as it will likely appeal to the masses. I'm not ready to jump off a building or anything, but if it does truly become cookie cutter then I can see myself moving on from the game. I guess that's nerdrage at its finest!
The trees will have all the bullshit filler talents taken out. You will gain most of them through the "passive" abilities that going into a tree gives you. This means now you actually have CHOICES for where you spend your "precious" talent points being as the # of talent points is being reduced they matter more. Without having the fillter talents waisting your points you are actually making decisions as to what YOU want to do. The shaman ELE tree is one of those that has so many mandatory talents... Look at Subtle for rogues all the cool shit you can't get because there are so many mandatory 5 talent point talents deep in the tree. I see this as a very very good change in terms of game play/mechanics/ balancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Owltoid
The best thing that they are doing is the iconic abilities at level 10. Instead of being a generic unspecialized pile of shit till like lvl 60-70 when you start actually getting enough tree abilities to have an idea of what that class does. Leveling ret from 1-60 any one? Or Enhance pre-dual wielding ><
I'd agree with you if they didn't force you to go all the way in one tree before opening up another. No longer can you have a two mid-tier build. Those are the ones I had lots of fun with (resto kins and holy'disc priest).
The sky is falling!!!
But how is any of that new? There is this massive crowd.. that overreacts when new things change.. and then when the dust settles.. hardly anyone quits.. and they just move on to the next topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
It's completely unnecessary to come in and start bashing on people.. in a completely hypocritical sense.. and expect everyone to chill out. Just because people are nervous about the changes doesn't make it ok to come into the thread.. that people are obviously interested in.. and tell them they are all crybabies. It's rude.. slightly idiotic.. and to complain that he comes here for X but contributes a load of bullshit QQ to a thread where he complains about QQ.. is beyond the point of return.
His big issue is not wanting to read nerdrage, and that's all he's contributed to the forums the past 2 nights.
Would be interesting to see if they can accomplish a compromise between the two systems as currently, there are pros and cons to both.
It may be that people who want to subscribe to the new system can choose their specialisation and get all of the goodies from lvl10 onwards in exchange for being locked in their chosen path until lvl70. For those who prefer their hybrid builds however, they can stick with the exisitng system of slowly accumulating abilities along the way but switching trees at will.
For levelling, the advantage of hybrid builds has usually been to tap into high value solo talents that are lower tier so can be picked up earlier. If you effectively get all the high value stuff straight up by specialising, there is not so much value in this, so I can't see this change being a big loss for levelling builds.
For end game, 90% of the builds will be cookie cutter (just had to slip that term in there once more for this thread ;)) so hopefully the changes will bring a bit more spice to what a cookie cutter build exactly is. For the few who like to choose to put talent points wherever they choose (personally I love the blood/frost DK who brings 20% haste AND 10% atk pwr to my ret team) there should be an option that allows them to sacrifice the upfront bonuses that the new specialisation system gives.
My own unsubstantiated opinion on the matter (is that not what forums are for?) is that with the removal of filler talents that provide bonus dmg, haste, bfufs etc. Hybrid builds will simply not be viable any more regardless, which may make the above solution redundant. Either way, although I have not always agreed with some of the changes that have been made in this game (I cried irl when original spirit bond for hunters got nerfed) once I have gotten over the initial discomfort associated with change, I have gone on to adapt to the new style of play and probably enjoyed it even more. I think it is this continuing evolution of the game that has kept me and most of us playing intensively for the last 5 odd years.
They said they are attempting to simplify the game. 14 or so of the different item variances on gear, down to 6-8 so 31 point trees make sense. all the good stuff you want are built in and you end up with the real talents making a difference. Great idea, I am thinking the developers came up with it and not the money men at Blizzavision.
Themuffinman can you give me a link to were you made that signatur? :D
Looks awsome, I want one too.
Not only that but GC stated that it is pretty much done in a playable and solid state for the next beta build which is pretty remarkable. They must have had this change in mind for awhile to pull this off. I am thinking they realized that the trees were getting pretty complicated to code for and balance and the time to do that was taking away from other areas. This will give them a bit more control for the foreseeable future not having to deal with such large trees. In its current form there are many talents I dont use or ones I only use because I need something lower on the tree. I like the idea of choosing talents I want to use that actually have an impact on my gameplay and not feel as though I am losing out on DPS or Healing. Of course this doesn't imply if it will be successful or not. Looking forward to see what they all look like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
I made it myself using GIMP (with some advice from Poyzon).Quote:
Originally Posted by RestrainT
I basically made my own adnimated GIF with GIMP and compiling all of my generated signatures from http://www.best-signatures.com/
Then i guess we disagree :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlesticks
Asking people to think and then post doesn't seem to much to ask imo.
You know the old saying: those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
Weird that all these talent announcements left me completely neutral. I'm neither for nor against them revamping the talents. Regardless what they do I think we will still find comps that work both in pvp and pve. Worst case, we go back to single toon.
But RealID really pissed me off and made me cancel :mad: