Unbeatable set up for 4x shaman + healer?

[Kaynin]

Yesterday I was up against a particular set up, and I've been theorycrafting loads on how I could be able to beat them. But every approach I think off fails if the other team plays their cards right. (And they did when I played them. )

Basicly, it was almost a eurocomp team (resto druid, rogue, frost mage, slsl lock, disc priest.), with one difference, no disc priest. But a elemental shaman instead.

The problem with eurocomp teams is the amont of control and cc the rogue/mage/druid/lock put on you while they wear you down. I've actually faced some teams like that, and have been able to pressure the dps enough to prevent that amount of cc. But! With one healer replaced with elemental shaman, I faced a very different problem.

For one, the shaman is the easiest first target. (But he knows that too, so played LoS/max range on me.) So he was hard to kill, waited for me to focus someone else before going in to dps. So I took the standard approach. I burned the rogues cd's, swapped to the mage. But by then, the elemental shaman starts nuking me. If I go back on him, he runs out of LoS again. So I stay on the mage, but I'm dps'd so much, I can't keep standing and die. (With the amount of cc on me unable to nuke freely.)

I tried every different tactic, and they really felt completely unbeatable to me. The first set up I faced so far where I can't think of any possible way to win from. (If equally geared.)

Has any of you quad boxers faced a similar eurocomp like 4 dps 1 healer team? Maybe some ideas on how to beat them? Should I play LoS? Force the ranged around the corner? I mean, I am less mobile then all of them, because of all the cc. Kiting probably only does more harm then good against such a team. I tried charging them, but since I really really have to put down totems anyhow, the charge is basicly easily countered. And it's the same situation over again. Four times they beat me. One of the four times I managed to kill the shaman, and another time, which was my best shot. I forced the rogue to pop trinks, then I forced the mage to IB, and forced the elemnetal shaman in defensive. I then managed to kill the rogue. But still, with lock/ele shaman and mage still up. I was loosing my grip by this time and still perished.I seem to be unable to drop more then one per fight against them. (I have a resto shaman healer. Maybe a holy paladin would be better vs this set up due to dispelling and the ability to shield and free heal in badly cc situations?)

[Kaynin]

Maybe it's an idea to add a PvE and a PvP section. >.> Just wondering.

[Boylston]

Should I play LoS?

Absolutely. The good news about 4 DPS, 1 Healer teams is that you can easily burst through their limited healing.

Play LoS so that you force their ranged DPS to get into a situation where they have to be close in order to be doing any damage. Coordinate with your partner so that he can help take some of their DPSers out of the action (cyclone, fear, stun, earth shock). I have a Pally partner, so he'll often charge towards my first squishy kill target to stun them so that they can't run out of LoS. I can kill a shaman if my partner lays down a 1-2 sec stun and keeps him from running too far.

The bad news about 4 DPS, 1 Healer teams is that you really, really, really need to burn the first 1-2 people down fast, particularly the mage. You're going to get a fair amount of AoE damage from the mage, chain lightning, and seeds of corruption, so an enemy needs to die fast in order to reduce that incoming AoE dmg.

Play LoS, get them to close, make sure your partner is engaged in more than just healing, and go for a fast kill. I think Shaman was a decent first target, but mage should have been high on your list too.

[Ellay]

If the Shaman is able to LoS you easily, then you are not fighting on your preferred spot. The combat needs to be dictated on locations that give you an advantage, his 36 yard Lightning Bolts should be forcing him to cast them well out of range of an LoS object so you can blow him up. In the meantime apply pressure to the Mage, this combo is quite difficult but at the same time you don't have to worry about the druid chaining cyclones through your Shaman.

As for the question on a PvP / PvE section, considering it - but having a healthy high traffic area is also good. Usually in a day there is about 20~ ish new threads, once this hits close to 35-40 it will be warranted.

[Silly Gooooose]

I haven't gotten high enough to be facing any real good teams (well.... ok I haven't faced any good teams with more or less equal gear.) so I don't really get a chance to work out any strats for teams.

I think Ellay would be the best help on this one

Where would you go in nagrand? In your starting zone he can use the wall / pillars. In the cubby hole with the eye he can hide behind the pillars still (i think). In the UC arena he couldn't really hide though.

[Boylston]

It's not a matter of "hiding" as much as making sure that THEY can't hide/utilize LoS easily and damage you at the same time. In UC, Ellay recommends (and I agree) that if you just barely exit the door, you largely take away the tomb as a LoS nightmare.

[Kaynin]

Awesome, thanks.

There's still a bit of a gear issue I suppose as well. The team I faced wasn't particularly imba geared tho. Partial s1 and s3 but not fully epic'd.I was at the prefered place in RoL where I had my best fight against them, the shaman just ran back over the tomb so switched to rogue. Other then that I suppose that's the tactic you guys say I should use. In which case I'm hoping the gear difference was the problem there. xP

My healer is full s3 and dies really fast against them tho. He said he never encountered a nastier rogue ever before, and played above 2200 in 2v2 and 3v3. I'm hoping they were a reformed team and belong at higher rated tho, otherwise I'll be in some serious trouble trying to keep above the prefered 1600 rating. Oo

In nagrand I usually and up moving away from the pillar, but I realise against teams like this I need to stick behind it.

One more thing tho. if a mage aoe's me, my ability to dps is suddenly halved due to interruptions. How do people counter this? >.<

[Boylston]

In nagrand I usually and up moving away from the pillar, but I realise against teams like this I need to stick behind it.

The Nagrand pillar location haunts us. We are playing more matches in the Ellay-named "melee nook", even against ranged DPS teams. I've taken to firing a volley at ranged people and expecting them to flee for a pillar.... then I turn on the melee DPSers first.