Ugh @ New AV

[Eteocles]

Not to mention NOTHING HAS CHANGED. AV is still the same. Pre-patch you could still join as group via mods like StinkyQueue(And people quite often did), there's probably just an "initial rush" post-patch of people trying it out then it'll settle back down to normal lol

[thinus]

Nowhere did I say anything about right or wrong. You were whining about AV and how horrible it is and how people actually playing the BG different than you turns it into a clusterfuck, whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaa.

I just pointed out that if you changed your approach to AV you would enjoy it.

It's great that you get enough epeen out of winning

Someone once said, "Its not about winning or losing, its how you play the game".
I said, "play to win" and nothing about winning or losing. I chose my words carefully. And my epeen is not what makes AV fun for me, holding off Alliance long enough for a bunker to cap, tracking down that annoying stealther in our base, rushing to towers to defend, breaking the Alliance turtle at SP, disrupting the initial Alliance IB zerg, those are all examples of fun things that I do in AV. The most annoying thing in AV is someone QQing about their honor/hour in chat. Bring back the 8 hour AVs I say!

You're judging the world solely off of how YOU see it, and that's just plain wrong.

I do?

AV is not "pvp". It's "zergfest".

So you believe that AV was designed to be zerged so that players can maximize their honor/hour and that PvPing in AV was never the intention? Sounds to me like you are the one judging AV by how YOU see it and how YOU play it and why YOU don't enjoy it.

I believe that going into a BG with the sole intention of farming honor is not in the spirit of the game which is why I rarely go into AB and EotS as it is 90% dominated by premade teams with the sole intention of winning the game as soon as possible to maximize their honor gain and now with groups allowed the same thing will happen in AV. My objective against any premade team is to attempt to annoy them as much as possible by dragging out the game as long as I possibly can. And there are few things sweeter than a PuG beating a premade.

Except for the join as group option I don't see the changes being negative at all and I have to agree that in our battlegroup I don't see how it will make any difference for the Alliance either. The Alliance cried about the map being unfair and Blizzard changed it. The Horde has been crying for ages about the Alliance base being much better defended and that has never changed. Capping the towers and killing Balinda with a balanced defense/offense means you don't need to go into their base at all. Just blocking the Alliance at the top of the map and taking everything else will get you a win.


So why did you farm AV for honor? Why not EotS or AB? Why are you finished with it? I assume every new season will bring new honor gear.

[thinus]

Not to mention NOTHING HAS CHANGED. AV is still the same. Pre-patch you could still join as group via mods like StinkyQueue(And people quite often did), there's probably just an "initial rush" post-patch of people trying it out then it'll settle back down to normal lol

Premades farming honor in AB/EotS might queue for AV as well if they figure their team is strong enough to zerg the opposition base, kill the general and make more honor/hour than doing AB or EotS. Or they might just do it for a change of pace.

I think the 40-man AV premade will still be rare but I think you will find a lot more 15-mans in AV.

[ilikemages]

illidan battlegroup now actually plays AV... ZOMG... alliance stopped QQing and we now have 3 min ques instead of fucking 2 hour ones!

[Mosg2]

1. Blizzard intended for AV to be a longer game that was strategic in nature, but players will always intuitively find the easiest route to anything. AV is the easiest BG to get honor in, and there are certain strategies that maximize the honor that you can get out of it. What I'm trying to get across to you, Thinus, is that all they did was force Horde to play one particular strategy if they want to maximize honor per hour... While still allowing Alliance the option of playing it however they want to.

2. It's just not worth arguing with anyone about. I go to AV so that I don't have to spend 3-4 times as long in AB or EOTS for honor. You go to AV to enjoy the game itself. I'm not knocking you for enjoying it, I'm knocking you for not realizing the full implications of what Blizz did.

Back to AB for some tokens to finish this off. Ugh.

[Tehtsuo]

Mosg2, I hate to be combative, but you seem to be operating with the same point of view as most of the people we're assaulted by on the Blizzard forums on a regular basis. AV is supposed to be a zergfest in your opinion. You want to get the most honor per hour. Please keep in mind that there are many different points of view on this forum. You are 100% entitled to your opinion, and doubtless many agree with you, but please don't be upset or frustrated when some don't share your point of view. We're all friends here. :thumbup:

[Boylston]

Not to mention NOTHING HAS CHANGED. AV is still the same. Pre-patch you could still join as group via mods like StinkyQueue(And people quite often did)

Actually, for some battlegroups, everything has changed.

StinkyQueue was worthless in battlegroups where one side had decided that AV was unfair and wasn't playing (US-Rampage BG, for example). We had 60-90min queues on the horde side because Alliance stopped playing. Now it's back to 1-2min, and I hope it stays that way.

I don't think AV was perfectly balanced pre-2.4, and I don't think it is now. Yes, there are problems with archers on the horde side, but there are a variety of problems in other places as well. IB GY is still infinitely easier to defend than SH GY. The same team can also defend Galv very easily at the onset and react quickly to wherever the alliance goes. The best strategy (for either side) seems to revolve around a strong initial defense that slowly shifts people to offense as the opposing team gets spread out and lesser-coordinated.

For my team, however, pre-2.4 looked like this:
* 90min queue
* Very small chance of playing with all 4 guys in the same AV
* 80-90% Horde win rate

Post 2.4:
* 1-2 min queue
* Guaranteed to play with my team
* Much more even fight between Horde/Alliance, whoever is "smarter" generally wins

[Mosg2]

Tehtsuo: I'm not saying I like it being a zergfest, I'm saying that when you throw 40 people who have never worked together in the same raid and try and tell them too coordinate, it doesn't work. It's the natural outcome. What I'm trying to get across about the zergfest is that, in rebuttal to Thinus' point, there is very little skill testing done in AV. It's not often that it's a "fair fight" between equally geared and equally skilled players--It's almost always that one side dominates the other.

Boylston: I'm happy to hear that your battlegroup is doing better! Going from what you had to what you have sure sounds like a vast improvement... I just wish Blizz could've done it in a way that didn't at the same time negatively affect other battlegroups. Sigh.

For all: I just realized what Blizz did! YOU CAN NO LONGER QUE IN GROUPS LARGER THAN FIVE! I spent 15 minutes trying to que my 15 man premade AB yesterday and it just wouldn't do it. I couldn't understand why.

Can anyone else confirm this? It's just a hunch off of what I saw yesterday as far as forming premades.

[Diamndzngunz]

the thing that sucks about the Join as group... you cannot do a Premade. Only 5 person max.

[Eteocles]

I WAS RIGHT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...*cough* sorry. So apparently, other than the AB 6man example above(You sure the 6th got queue'd?) people seem to be -literally- joining as GROUP. Can we get some more tests to confirm this?