Cataclysm: Comparing Multi-Class Melee With DK + 4 rets

[Shodokan]

I am trying to REALLY find a reason to go with a multi-class team. But i'm not sure if the challenges added by the multiple classes would be worth the hassle. I know MOSG and ZUG run multi class teams... so what are your outlooks on things? I mean the whole totems thing for anti-fear is kinda big IMO. But then again you can just sub out one ret for that i suppose. What do people think that multi-class will have over 4 rets + dk... especially since healing is being toned down overall?

[zenga]

pvp or pve?

[Shodokan]

pvp or pve?

This was posted in the PVP section for a reason >_> (Not to sound like an ass)

[zenga]

My bad. I clicked 'new posts' to have a read while lvling my herbalist. Was almost 6 am and missed the section. Therefore i'll refrain from comments till i'm awake :P

[Ualaa]

There are two compositions which have proven strong, boxed.

Four shammies, because of the totem farm.
This is usually accompanied by a healer, played by someone else.
We get fear immunity, a lot of buffs and resistances, heroism/bloodlust, purge, and controlled burst.

4x Ret's, with the DK is a more resilient team, higher armor and such.
Plus they are in your face immediately.
The loss of cleanse will make fear a nastier mechanic to face.

A mixed melee team... something like:
- Death Knight
- Enhancement Shaman
- Warrior
- Ret Paladin
- Ret Paladin or Feral Druid or Dedicated Healer?

You gain Tremor for the vs Fear.
And several buffs.

But lose the passive heals of Divine Storm as well as Art of War heals.
Not sure if the other teams have enough healing to be in the same ball park as the DK/Ret's.

[Myc]

Ive wondered the same thing,
I think in pvp it will be a 50/50 (more of a 'preference' on what team you like to play) No dispell succkz =l but trinkets/bubbles can make up for fear. but who knows what new PVP gear to help you will in CATA.

tho for PVE if you lost 1 passive healer seems like you would need to get a full time healer or another class that can off heal (shammy/spriest) to make up for it unless you have the content significantly outgeared.
I have thought about mixin my team up something similar to Ualaas post for PVE but I don't think it would be fun in pvp

[Mosg2]

The swap from one Ret to a Warrior is, for me, a required step of evolution for this team. All told your damage output will more-than-double--MS doesn't just halve incoming healing. It shortens the reaction window your opponents have where they can credibly fix the incoming damage you're putting out. This immediately disqualifies many, many teams from being able to beat you.

The Shaman is, to me, another step of evolution. Being able to Purge Hand of Protection off of a target is *HUGE*. Instead of there being no good target when there's a Paladin on the other team due to HoP you can pick almost anyone. Totems are a Big Deal (Tm).

All that having been said... In Cata I think that Dk+Rets or Warrior+Rets is going to be superior. If this PBAE pulsing heal is even *decently* powerful... 4x of those plus either an MS'er or the DK with the no-healing strike is going to be awesome. Of course, maybe burst won't be a viable strategy in Cata and we'll all be playing Druids.

I've got a hunch about 4x Druids

[Shodokan]

The swap from one Ret to a Warrior is, for me, a required step of evolution for this team. All told your damage output will more-than-double--MS doesn't just halve incoming healing. It shortens the reaction window your opponents have where they can credibly fix the incoming damage you're putting out. This immediately disqualifies many, many teams from being able to beat you.

The Shaman is, to me, another step of evolution. Being able to Purge Hand of Protection off of a target is *HUGE*. Instead of there being no good target when there's a Paladin on the other team due to HoP you can pick almost anyone. Totems are a Big Deal (Tm).

All that having been said... In Cata I think that Dk+Rets or Warrior+Rets is going to be superior. If this PBAE pulsing heal is even *decently* powerful... 4x of those plus either an MS'er or the DK with the no-healing strike is going to be awesome. Of course, maybe burst won't be a viable strategy in Cata and we'll all be playing Druids.

I've got a hunch about 4x Druids

Alright, it seems everyone is set on the rets/dk.

Thanks for the advice. Now to find another team to do...

[Boylston]

I started looking at this in another thread, but I've come to the same conclusion as mosg2... It's all going to be about 2 things:

The general mechanics of PvP in cataclysm-- health pools, DPS levels, healing effectiveness. Basically, how quickly will a 4.5 DPS team be able to burn down a single player, both with and without healing support. Also important will be the overall effectiveness of AoE abilities vs. single target powers.

The second is going to be the effectiveness of Healing Hands, the Paladin PBAoE healing stream type ability. Since the blues say it will work a lot like Healing Stream totem, one can guess that it WILL stack when used on multiple pallies and there's a decent chance it will probably be better (even untalented) than Healing Stream totem since it will be on a CD.

You can theorycraft all the synergistic buffs of running different mixed teams (see list below for most of the big buffs), but I really think it will come down to Healing Hands' effectiveness. If 4.5 DPS of DK+4xRets can "get it done" in terms of quickly killing people in the BGs, then I think having another mobile, group heal is going to make the team very, very robust.

RIght now, people who are reporting success with mixing up the team more are taking advantage of the obvious adds that an Enhance shaman and Arms warrior bring to the table.

Str/Agi Add: DK Enh
10% AP: DK Enh
10% Haste (Melee): DK Enh
Ranged Snare: DK Enh
Death Grip: DK
10% Stats: Ret
AP Add: Ret Arms
3% Damage Add: Ret
3% Haste: Ret
3% Crit Taken: Ret
Passive Healing (JoLIght): Ret
Passive Group Healing (DS): Ret
Snare Resistance (EB Totem): Enh
Ranged Root: Enh
Offensive Debuff (Purge): Enh
PBAoE Snare: Enh
Bloodlust: Enh
3% Physical Damage Taken: Arms
PBAoE Fear: Arms
Remove Invulnerability: Arms
50% Healing Debuff: Arms
Major Armor Debuff: Arms
Minor Armor Debuff: Feral
Group Speed Boost (CD): Feral
5% Crit (Melee): Feral
Flat Stat Add: Feral
Pasive Healing (LOTP): Feral


Long term, I keep asking myself what the best BG team is going to be as well. I think I'd like to be done with arenas and focus on BG play as a gear/rating path. I've become a fan of melee teams for BGing, like a lot of you, so I'm trying to get my act together as we see how the expansion will unfold.

I also wonder about 4-5 druids in the BGs. The ability to stealth a whole team seems like a huge advantage, and one nice aspect about druids is that they are SO flexible for PvE/PvP. Can run boomkins if that works well, cats, bears, healers.... just every option available. Even if kitties are not the end-all, be-all DPS for multiboxers, there's something sexy about being able to stealth your team everywhere.

Argh, choices!

[Ualaa]

Well, comparing Arena to Battlegrounds...

You are not limited to the number of arena matches you can play in a given week.
So, in theory your team can gain or lose a lot of points over the course of a week.

In battlegrounds, we will be able to gain points six times in a week.
Not sure if that means the first six games will count, and after that there is no option for rated play.
Or if we will take the points for the six best games over the course of that week.

They did mention it will be impossible to lose rating in battlegrounds, which is a big plus for BG's.

Not sure if they'll cap the amount of arena you can play for points in a week.
If placing a limit on BG's, to prevent it from being a grind is their direction, arena can be just as much of a time sink over the course of a week.