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  1. #1

    Default Melee Characters: Optimal IWT and ability order (software independent)

    The issue: How to best keep melee characters on target in situations where the target is moving (mostly PvP).

    Assumption: Melee characters need to be using Interact With Target (IWT) along with associated click-to-move option in order to constantly stay in range of a moving target.

    Not relevant to this discussion: Which software/hardware you use, whether actions are happening because of key up or key down events, group composition concerns.

    Some approaches to the issue:

    1.) Continually send IWT commands throughout the course of a fight, interlaced with attack skills. Visually, this looks like:

    {pick the target}
    IWT
    IWT
    {attack skill/macro}
    IWT
    IWT
    {another attack}
    IWT
    IWT
    ** Target dies or combat ends **
    {character re-follows a leader or stops movement}

    Pros: This seems to maximize DPS by keeping the target in range. Characters generate a portion of their attacks behind the target, even if the target is stationary, avoiding the chance for dodge/parry in many cases. Characters can often exhibit "swarming" behavior, where they are circling or passing through the target, changing direction with each application of IWT (this is a Pro because that swarm might be hard to target).

    Cons: Characters swarm around the target, even if it's stationary. Latency (either network or on the clients) can cause events where characters scatter and/or run away from the target, especially if there is a loss of the target in the game's UI or the target dies. The normal solution to this is to quickly re-follow a leader post-combat. Characters in close proximity to ledges, cliffs, lava, or otherwise "bad stuff" can occasionally fall off due to this swarming. Also, if IWT is used on the leader character in a multibox setup as well, it can screw up the camera controls so that the camera no longer tracks behind the character.

    A significant other con is the high rate of keyboarding needed to maintain a decent IWT rate to prevent characters breaking the swarm and running off. Carpal tunnel and fatigue are two big concerns for this older gamer .

    Currently, this is the solution I've read about the most (and use currently).

    Are there other viable solutions out there? Allow me to theorycraft for a moment:

    2.) Continually send IWT commands throughout the course of a fight, interlaced with attack skills and the occasional movement key to stop the character. Visually, this looks like:

    {pick the target}
    IWT
    {move backwards - e.g. "tap S or down arrow"}
    IWT
    {attack skill/macro}
    IWT
    {move backwards}
    IWT
    {another attack}
    IWT
    {move backwards}
    IWT
    ** Target dies or combat ends **
    {character re-follows a leader or stops movement}

    Basically, the hope would be to interlace a backup (or maybe a strafe) command periodically into the rotation so that the swarming behavior might be slowed or even stop. Would characters then not run through the target so often, and instead tend to just face the target and not overshoot it?

    It would be nice to have some of the "glued on" performance of spamming IWT with less of the downsides of the swarming method. Personally, I would be OK with using a manual IWT from time to time to move my characters long distances and use a rotation like the one above with my attacks in order to minimize the swarm-i-ness of the in-combat behavior. Ideally, the perfect IWT/ability order would lock on to stationary targets (primarily PvE) and NOT exhibit any much of the swarming behavior.

    Looking for feedback here if you've tried anything that seems to work well against moving targets. If you have something that works, please contribute.
    Cranky old-timer.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Stealthy's Avatar
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    I'm using method 1 at the moment on my melee teams.

    My only concern with method 2 is if you are spamming it, you might end up moving your toons to far backwards and therefore out of range. I wonder if moving forward instead would work?

    You might need to space out the movement commands depending on how much movement this causes in practice. Will give it a go tonight after work.

    Cheers,
    S.
    The Zerg (Magtheridon - US)

    Fact of Life: After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says W T F.

  3. #3

    Default

    Also going to try it out tonight as well, I'm thinking that using forward or strafe might work OK.
    Cranky old-timer.

  4. #4

    Default

    Method 2 seems to be not viable at all for PvP. IWT barely catches up to continuously moving targets as it is (for example someone fleeing in a straight line - my cat druids catch up to them, but then do a quick circle-around, losing even more ground).
    Jenzali - Troll Druid (Level 85) - Emerald Dream
    Soon to be joined by 4 other Druid buddies!

  5. #5

    Default

    IWT is already way behind as it is., so method 2 would be out for pvp.. It's amazing how a backpeddling retard somehow moves as fast as your alts with IWT. Worse yet is someone smart enough to strafe - I swear they move at twice the speed of melee alts and you can't get anywhere near them without a ranged snare.

  6. #6
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    If you decide to strafe away from a mob.
    They cannot catch you, unless they move a lot faster.

    I'd imagine, when you're pathing towards a target.
    You are essentially moving, as if you were a mob.
    Given roughly equal movement speeds, this is far from perfect.
    Still melee is a nice option, and IWT opens melee.
    EverQuest I: Bard / Enchanter / Druid / Wizard / 2x Magician.
    Diablo III: 4x Crusader & 4x Wizard.

    My Guide to IS Boxer http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26231 (somewhat dated).
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  7. #7

    Default

    Inserting a "back" in periodically will stop the spinning like crazy for PvE and stationary targets. I confirmed this tonight, which is at least helpful for PvE situations where swarming may not be so desirable.
    Cranky old-timer.

  8. #8

    Default

    You might want to try using a strafe key instead of forward or back.

    XKeys footpedal would be the ideal choice here - 3 buttons

    Main button = IWT
    L/R buttons to insert a quick strafe

    With the bonus of no carpal tunnel problems

  9. #9

    Default

    Going to try the stafe key some as well, just didn't get to it. I tried using the forward key, but it doesn't work nearly as well as backwards to stop the swarming action.

    Honestly, I like the swarming action-- looks groovy, especially when they all Divine Storm. I just wish it was a little less crazy camera-wise. I'm debating using click to move on my main or not. I think I like it for PvP, but for PvE, it tends to make the whole mess of mob+my characters wobble around. Lost half my team off the walkways outside Hellfire Ramparts last night when some mobs spawned and we gyrated out of control!
    Cranky old-timer.

  10. #10
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    That's funny.

    Losing the team, because they circle a mob.
    I like the circling of the target, but not the camera issue.
    And that's with one melee to play around with on a team.
    Not a team doing it yet.
    EverQuest I: Bard / Enchanter / Druid / Wizard / 2x Magician.
    Diablo III: 4x Crusader & 4x Wizard.

    My Guide to IS Boxer http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26231 (somewhat dated).
    Streaming in 1080p HD: www.twitch.tv/ualaa
    Twitter: @Ualaa


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