New computer has been purchased - specs, rationale, and thanks

[Owltoid]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me over the past week. I have thoroughly read every response and appreciated the feedback. Probably the biggest piece of advice that I ignored was from Freddie (Hotkeynet) and I could come to regret it in a year.

Here are the specs:

Purchased on www.buyxg.com

CoolerMaster Centurion 590 RC-590 Mid-Tower
-I tried to get the Antec P182 as I believe it looks better, but unfortunately you have to select from what is available on buyxg.com. I could have tried to build the system myself, but I didn't see any cost savings when pricing components on newegg.com and I'd rather have buyxg.com's 1-year warranty.

650 Watts Power Supply (Corsair CMPSU-650TX - Quad SLI Ready)
-I could have stuck with the default 420W power supply but after reading the thread I thought namebrand was important in this category. Though I don't think I'll need all 650, I also don't think it's total overkill.

Asetek Liquid CPU Cooling System (Extreme Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA)
-This was probably overkill and possibly a waste of money. However, hopefully it will ensure that my rig stays cool and at a cost of $65 I get the geek factor of having water cooling (though I understand this is a bastardization form of true water cooling)

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366
-Here is where I ignored Freddie's advice. Though I understand a significantly cheaper processor+mobo, with not significant reduction in performance, could be bought, I went with the i7 architecture because of the amount of RAM it can hold. With 12GB currently, and upgradeable to 24GB, I believe that my RAM needs will be met for at least 4-5 years before becoming much less than ideal. Also, and I may be incorrect with this thought process, but since i7 is new I'm hoping that right before they transition to a new architecture I can get the latest version. If that type of upgrade is possible, then my processor needs will be met for a long time (with upgrade in a few years).

MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA,Dual GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE1394a,&7.1Audio
-I probably should have done more comparisons and asked more questions on my selection of the motherboard. However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner. Hopefully the mobo will be decent for at least a few years and I didn't skip any glaring bottleneck.

12GB (2GBx6) DDR3/1600MHz Triple Channel Memory Module (Corsair)
-When I priced the differential between ordering 6GB and upgrading through Newegg, it turned out that there weren't any cost savings and I'd rather have buyxg.com do it from the start. I'm new to this, but I believe Corsair has a decent reputation and the RAM should be of good quality.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB 16X PCI Express
-I'm pretty unhappy to find out that it doesn't have a standard HDMI output and that I'll need to find a converter (which should be extremely easy) but otherwise it seemed like this card should handle 5 WoWs and be good for a few years. I'm a bit concerned with it being 896MB instead of 1G+ but since I don't really know what those numbers mean then I hope I can't tell the difference

320GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
-With only a 64GB main drive this will hold all the music, movies, data files, etc. I really don't download that much and I doubt I'll fill the 320GB. However, since this computer is costing a pretty penny, I thought I should explore using it as my media center and really trying to utilize its capabilities. I already play WoW in my living room (two large screen HDs side-by-side, one for TV, one for video games) and I would love to figure out a good way to remove cable and replace with an internet/computer solution.

Creative Labs SB Audigy SE
-I really don't care about sound since usually I have to be talking with the g/f or "watching" TV while I play video game... for some reason me sitting right next to her isn't quality time if I have my headset on, but I digress. This is one of the cheaper upgrade options, but I wanted to take the sound processing off my mobo. I'm hopeful this will fill all my sound needs, which aren't extensive.

600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers
-I could have removed them and saved 2 bucks, so I just kept them

Microsoft(R) Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic w/ Service Pack 1
-I was pleasantly surprised to find out Vista was only $89. I spoke with buyxg.com (they called to confirm everything and go over my special requests) and they said they don't put any bloatware on the system. Unfortunately Vista comes with a trial version of Office, but that will be the first thing I remove. This was great news compared to my ASUS gaming laptop which seemed to be filled to the teeth with extra programs.

Sony 20x Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
-I didn't get a Blueray player because I don't really buy movies. If anything I'll just download them so I thought I'd save some money.

Professional Wiring for All WIRINGs Inside The System Chasis with High Performance Thermal Compound on CPU
-I don't really know what this means but for $19 they got me on it... can't hurt (I hope!)

FREE! 4GB USB 2.0 Portable Flash Drive
-It's free, why would I say no?

Standard Warranty: 1-Year Limited Warranty Plus Life-Time Technical Support
-It's included and I do have a little piece of mind knowing that someone who knows what they're doing is putting this together. When I talked with the guy from buyxg.com he said that they build over 120 units a day, so I doubt they'll be scratching their heads putting together my system.

And all this can be yours for the price of between 1750-1800 (including shipping, no taxes since out of state)!

Thanks for the help! It ended up being more expensive than originally expected, but with selling my laptop for $500 I'm only out 1250-1300... still hurts, but hopefully this rig will be good for at least 3-4 years.

[Freddie]

Probably the biggest piece of advice that I ignored was from Freddie (Hotkeynet) and I could come to regret it in a year.

I think you'll feel fine. You made good choices and $1800 isn't that much more than what I suggested considering that you're getting more RAM and it's being built for you. I didn't know you wanted more than 16 GB. That's a reason for going with i7 that I didn't take into account. My way isn't necessarily better -- it's just a different choice. My way you buy a new PC every two years and spend less each time. Your way you rely on the computer longer and spend more each time. Both ways have advantages but if you wanted 24 GB, that settles it. Don't worry.

-I could have stuck with the default 420W power supply but after reading the thread I thought namebrand was important in this category. Though I don't think I'll need all 650, I also don't think it's total overkill.

Good choice. Quality probably varies more with power supplies than any other component, and Corsair is great. 650 watts is fine.

With 12GB currently, and upgradeable to 24GB, I believe that my RAM needs will be met for at least 4-5 years before becoming much less than ideal. Also, and I may be incorrect with this thought process, but since i7 is new I'm hoping that right before they transition to a new architecture I can get the latest version. If that type of upgrade is possible, then my processor needs will be met for a long time (with upgrade in a few years).

I think you're right on both points. Just yesterday Intel introduced the E8700 which will probably turn out to be one of the last (if not the very last) CPUs from the previous architecture. In the same way, two years from now, Intel will probably be introducing the last i7's built on a smaller 32 nm. And most likely you'll be able to plug it into this motherboard.

MSI X58 Platinum Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA,Dual GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE1394a,&7.1Audio
-I probably should have done more comparisons and asked more questions on my selection of the motherboard. However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner. Hopefully the mobo will be decent for at least a few years and I didn't skip any glaring bottleneck.

I've had a lot of success relying on Newegg reviews. I've come to place a lot of trust in them (when there are a lot of them for a given product).

I'm a bit concerned with it being 896MB instead of 1G+ but since I don't really know what those numbers mean then I hope I can't tell the difference

1 GB means 1024 MB so the difference is 1024 - 896 = 128. If you ran a lot of benchmarks like the review webs sites do, you'd notice that a similar card with the larger DRAM size would run certain games slightly faster. A lot of games wouldn't be affected at all. But since you won't be running benchmarks you won't notice anything.

[Bovidae]

Nice machine. I don't think you need to defend yourself on choosing an I7 over a Core, Congrats.

[jettzypher]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...

[Jafula]

However, between this mobo and the ASUS, Newegg had negative reviews on the ASUS which left the MSI the winner.

<rant>

I have had nothing but trouble with my recent ASUS purchases. IT took 6 months! before ASUS released a BIOS for my Striker II Extreme motherboard that meant it did not crash every 10 minutes. I do not appreciate being a beta tester for supposedly retail ready products.

My ASUS Nvidia 8800GT graphics card comes with one big fan and a missing fan controller chip. Hey, guess what, cannot control the fan speed from software. Sucks. My fault for not doing enough research; but ASUS are never getting any more of my money.

</rant>

Sounds like you have got yourself a machine that will last you a long while. I hope it treats you well .

[Owltoid]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...

I agree, a little bit. The water cooling ($65) was excessive. The sound card ($30) was recommended so that it eases the load on the processor (maybe could be called excessive). I'm hoping to make my computer more of my media center for my living room and move away from cable TV so I thought the sound card could come in handy. The two of those add up to a whopping $95.

As far as the ram, many have posted that 8 GB is recommended for smooth performance. Since I wanted this computer to be good for quite a few years, I went with the i7 architecture which gave me a choice of 6GB, 12GB, or 24GB (24 isn't really available yet). I wanted to ensure that things ran smoothly and after reading some posts it seemed that 6GB could be pushing it for 5-boxing. I'm running one client on my laptop as I write this post and it's using over 1GB of RAM, so I don't think there is a ton of buffer room with 6GB. I went with the 12GB.

Could I run 5 accounts on a less expensive machine? Absolutely.
Do I think this machine will be scalable and useable for the next 5 years? Yup.
Where there some excessive choices? Yeah, the water cooling, but otherwise it was a decision between higher initial investment versus smaller multiple investments over time (as Freddie mentioned).

[Freddie]

i dont want to sound like an ass, but you bought and paid for alot of things that you either dont know what it is, dont understand, or have expressed that you really have no use for. why? it could be a decent system, but you spent alot of money on unnecessary hardward that youre not gonna use for awhile if at all (extra sound card, excessive amount of ram, and water cooling for example). just food for thought...

I don't think he did that. Item by item:

Case: pretty typical gamer case

Power supply: this is the smallest first-tier mfg'd power supply available from his builder, so actually he picked the cheapest one.

Water cooling: cheap feature he threw in for fun, and most likely it will lower temperatures a little although probably not very much. Fun is a rational reason to buy something.

CPU: he wanted i7 for perfectly rational reasons, and this is the cheapest i7, so actually he picked the cheap one.

Motherboard: All i7 motherboards are expensive now because they are new and selling in small quantities. He picked this one on the basis of Newegg reviews which (in my experience) is a pretty good way to pick things.

12 GB ram: It may sound like too much but a couple of years ago, 4 GB's sounded like too much. I've been buying PC's since 1983. Back then 1 MB sounded like too much. I guarantee you that during the life of this machine, 12 GB will seem like too little. Plus keep in mind that under Vista and Windows 7, all ram gets used even now for preloading. Maybe you think he could have bought 6 GB now and the rest later when DDR3 prices fall, but since he wants 24 GB eventuallly, he needed to buy 12 GB now to avoid throwing away DIMMs later. And as for DDR3 prices falling, I just checked his builder's prices. He paid $150 for the additional 6 GB. That's pretty cheap . Even if he waits till next year when DDR3 prices fall, how much will he save on that 6 GB? $50? But that $50 *is* buying him something now -- the use of that RAM during the next year -- because in fact Vista and Windows 7 use RAM for preloading. Plus there are people here who say i7 benefits from more than 6 GB with 5 WoWs. I don't have an i7 nor do I play 5 WoWs so I don't know, but it makes sense to listen to them and apply their advice.

Video card: This is a solid choice. High powered but not far out on the diminishing returns curve. He didn't do anything extreme like buy two 260's in SLI or anything like that.

Hard drive: If anything he was too frugal here. Almost everyone here would have picked a bigger one or more of them.

Sound card: Supposedly they have some advantages over onboard sound. I'm not sure what they are myself. In a case like this, where the item is very cheap, I often do the same thing Owltoid did -- buy the thing without being sure -- because my time has a money value and it would cost more to research the item than to simply buy the thing.

Speakers: they came practically for free with the system

Vista BASIC: for goodness sake, he got the dirt cheap version! How many people here would skimp on Vista and get the version without Aero? Owltoid is actually the opposite of what you say -- he's a miser!

DVD: He got the cheap choice.

Professional wiring: Okay, at last, $19 for something that might really be useless. But he trusts the company (as I do also after reading their site) and since I trust the company, I'd be willing to bet $19 that this wiring is really better than their regular wiring. It probably has more cable ties and they probably take more time to tuck cables behind things. I would pay $19 for that also, and I'd also be willing to pay it without being certain, on the basis I described.

[Owltoid]

Thanks for the support Freddie :thumbsup:

Out of curiousity, since you looked at www.buyxg.com, what did you think of their prices in general? Knowing my rig, did you see anything that stood out as overly expensive? I understand that they could use cheaper builds of some things, like the video card which doesn't give the black edition option.

Regarding the case, i really wasn't excited about that one, but out of their selection I disliked that one the least

Regarding Vista basic, I didn't do my research. Other than Aero, are there other differences between Basic and Premium? After reading other threads some mentioned turning off Aero to increase performance and I was planning on doing that anyway. However, what I don't know is if that's the only difference between the two or if there are performance advantages to getting the Premium (and disabling Aero) versus just getting Basic.

[Freddie]

Regarding Vista basic, I didn't do my research. Other than Aero, are there other differences between Basic and Premium?

Doh! I forgot. Vista Basic is limited to 8 GB of RAM. But here's a crazy idea. Use the Windows 7 beta instead of buying Vista. It's free now while it's in beta and then you can buy it when it's released. If you're tempted to buy Vista Premium now, note on the following chart that Vista Premium is limited to 16 GB.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr..._windows_vista

As for other differences:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...s/default.aspx

Out of curiousity, since you looked at www.buyxg.com, what did you think of their prices in general? Knowing my rig, did you see anything that stood out as overly expensive? I understand that they could use cheaper builds of some things, like the video card which doesn't give the black edition option.

I think the only way to know is look up the items on Newegg and compare. Which you did, right? So you know better than me. I don't know what the black edition is.

[Owltoid]

Wow, Freddie, thanks a ton for being here! I had no idea that there was that limit on Vista Basic (or Premium)... I'll definitely have to either call and get my order changed to Vista Premium (shouldn't be an issue) or figure out how to avoid the OS and instead get Windows 7 beta.

As you mentioned, that link verified that Basic is indeed limited to 8GB and Premium to 16GB. I can't thank you enough!