Melee cleave teams - how are you doing?

[nodoze]

Holy pally probably isn’t bad, and it’s probably what I’ll run with my 4 warrior team, but that’d only because I already have a Preist in my 4 lock team. Priests have great aoe healing via prayer of healing, and even holy nova( not as efficient, but still). Holy pallies are more single Target nuke heals, without any instant cast hots. The lack of instant heals does mean you have to stop moving to heal

Actually in my setup my 2 Paladins will be able to do up to 2 instant heals on demand on the go every 30 seconds via Holy Shocks (or you can think of as being available on average once every 15 seconds).

I think 2 Paladins are by far the best for WPVP but I am finding they are also great for 3 PVE Warriors giving both improved Might and Kings blessings and up to 2 good auras and the Warriors & Paladins will all get heals every-time they hit a primary target with Seal of Light (which should be crazy-good when the Warriors are dual-wielding) and the Paladins should also be getting mana on hit from Seal of Wisdom. If heal-delay is an issue for any healer Paladins are the only healers to easily self provide > 100% immunity to losing casting time due to incoming damage... For many scenarios the Paladins in mail/plate+shield have the best mitigation and by far the highest survivability with their multiple "oh shit" buttons and the only class able to cleanse 3 types of debuffs...

Paladins are also by far the most mana-efficient healers in the game (except for maybe situation-ally when a Priest can be fed killing blows) making them less likely to hold up the Warriors due to the healer(s) needing to drink. Until Seal of Light I would be a little wary of a single Paladin though as, due to no AoE heals you have to heal single target and I have had multiple times where I would have lost one or more Warriors had I not been able to double the healing throughput via 2 Paladins... That being said I have been a little aggressive in my pulls and have been doing yellow mobs probably too often and so maybe a single Paladin would be OK if I were to go a little less aggressive and/or focus on green mobs... Thus far I have liked the double healing throughput and have liked having 2 rezers in PVE for mistakes but likely when my team is all decked out in BiS gear and I know all the dungeons by heart I will get less value for the 2nd Paladin when grinding... If/when that happens I may swap a Paladin for a 4th Warrior for PVE dungeon grinds...

Overall I do like my 3Warrior+2Paladin group & drive from my 'lead warrior' with the entire team following in melee range attacking. My lead warrior gets all the best gear and I slant him with best 1handers and spec'ed him arms so he can stance dance with minimal, if any, penalty. He lead charges in getting body pull aggro with the other 2 Warriors charging in next and the Paladins have to run up since they don't have charge.

The lead warrior ThunderClaps and then shifts to Defensive stance while the other 2 Warriors stay in BattleStance and both shout (one speced for improved battle shout and the speced for improved demoralizing shout).

Up to 19th Level for large mob pulls I would Thunderclap & initial Rend (I would triple dot a target or two and then focus DPS on other targets till dead while typically the first mobs or two would die to dots).

At 20th Level I switched to Cleave and am still trying to figure out the initiation and follow-up rotations I like best. I am thinking of dropping rend and going (on tougher pulls):

• -All 3 start in BattleStance & Charge (Lead first as he is a few steps ahead and gets in range first getting body pull aggro);
• -All 3 pop BloodRage;
• -Lead ThunderClaps & others shout (1 battle, 1 demoralizing);
• -Lead shifts to Defensive Stance & others ThunderClap (when enough rage) then focus on DPS rotation and controlling aggro via:
  
• -Lead Warrior (Defensive Stance): Revenge>Heroic Strike (boosts Aggro & speced for reduced cost) & taunting if/as needed, maybe ThunderClap if 4+ Targets (since he can change stance without dumping all Rage); Since he is Arms with improved Heroic Strike I am thinking maybe don't cleave from him and just try to control aggro...
  
• -Follow Warriors (Battle Stance): OverPower>Heroic Strike (single target), OverPower>Cleave (2+ targets), Overpower>ThunderClap (4+ targets);

Things I could use help on are:

Feed back on the above initation & rotation plan at 20+ (I am new to cleave) till sweeping strikes.

When should I be Sundering (just on bosses?) and would it make sense to only Sunder from my lead Warrior (since it caused high threat and he has the best armor and only one defaulting to 1H+shield) or should I sunder from all 3 at once (lead warrior is in defensive stance and should have aggro anyway)?

Round-robin setup to rotate Sheild-Bashes from the 3 Warriors (and a way to switch the "Follow" Warriors from 2H to 1H+shield and back);

Insight into other warrior macros people are using as I think I have significant optimization left to do.

[dalo199]

Actually in my setup my Paladins will be able to do up to 2 instant heals on demand on the go every 30 seconds via Holy Shock.

I think 2 Paladins are by far the best for WPVP but I am finding they are also great for 3 PVE Warriors giving both improved Might and Kings blessings and up to 2 good auras and the Warriors & Paladins will all get heals every-time they hit a primary target with Seal of Light (which should be crazy-good when the Warriors are dual-wielding) and the Paladins should be getting mana from Seal of Wisdom. If heal-delay is an issue the Paladins are the only healers to easily get > 100% immune to losing casting time due to incoming damage... For many scenarios the Paladins in mail/plate+shield have the best mitigation and by far the highest survivability with their multiple "oh shit" buttons and the only class able to cleanse 3 types of debuffs...

Paladins are also by far the most mana-efficient healers in the game (except for maybe situation-ally when a Priest can be fed kills) making them less likely to hold up the Warriors due to the healer(s) needing to drink. Until Seal of Light I would be a little wary of a single Paladin though as, due to no AoE heals you have to heal single target and I have had multiple times where I would have lost one or more Warriors had I not been able to double the healing throughput via 2 Paladins... That being said I have been a little aggressive in my pulls and have been doing yellow mobs probably too often and so maybe a single Paladin would be OK if I were to go a little less aggressive and/or focus on green mobs... If I find that true I likely will add a 4th Warrior in the future when focused on PVE dungeon grinding though I have liked having 2 rezers in PVE...

I like my 3Warrior+2Paladin group & drive from my 'lead warrior' with the entire team following in melee range attacking. My lead warrior gets all the best gear and I slant him with best 1handers and spec'ed him arms so he can stance dance with minimal, if any, penalty. He lead charges in getting body pull aggro with the other 2 Warriors charging in next and the Paladins have to run up since they don't have charge.

The lead warrior ThunderClaps and then shifts to Defensive stance while the other 2 Warriors stay in BattleStance and both shout (one speced for improved battle shout and the speced for improved demoralizing shout).

Up to 19 for large mob pulls I would Thunderclap & initial Rend (I would triple dot a target or two and then focus DPS on other targets till dead while typically the first mobs or two would die to dots).

At 20 I switched to Cleave and am still trying to figure out the rotation I like best. I am thinking of dropping rend and going (on tougher pulls):

• -All 3 start in BattleStance & Charge (Lead first as he is a few steps ahead and gets in range first getting body pull aggro);
• -All 3 pop BloodRage;
• -Lead ThunderClaps & others shout (1 battle, 1 demoralizing);
• -Lead shifts to Defensive Stance & others ThunderClap (when enough rage) then focus on DPS rotation and controlling aggro via:
  
• -Lead Warrior (Defensive Stance): Revenge>Heroic Strike (boost Aggro & speced for reduced cost) & taunting if/as needed, maybe ThunderClap if 4+ Targets; Since he is Arms with improved Heroic Strike I am thinking maybe don't cleave from him and just try to control aggro.
  
• -Follow Warriors (Battle Stance): OverPower>Heroic Strike (single target), OverPower>Cleave (2+ targets), Overpower>ThunderClap (4+ targets);

Things I could use help on are:

Feed back on the above imitation & rotation plan at 20+ (I am new to cleave) till sweeping strikes.

When should I be Sundering (just on bosses?) and would it make sense to only Sunder from my lead Warrior or should I sunder from all 3 at once?

Round-robin setup to rotate Sheild-Bashes from the 3 Warriors (and a way to switch the "Follow" Warriors from 2H to 1H+shield and back);

Insight into other warrior macros people are using as I think I have significant optimization left to do.

I would love to see a video of all of this in action! Sounds amazing

[Nandus]

How are you doing with healing in your setup? Grid and vfx?

Would really be nice to get more informations - i am goofing with 4xWA and 1x PA - so overall should be the same setup for us.

what basic macros you are working with ?

Feedback so far from me: Until 20 i will exactly go like you with rotation and specs - perhaps we can compare later on when my team is ready for dungeon

Actually in my setup my 2 Paladins will be able to do up to 2 instant heals on demand on the go every 30 seconds via Holy Shocks (or you can think of as being available on average once every 15 seconds).

I think 2 Paladins are by far the best for WPVP but I am finding they are also great for 3 PVE Warriors giving both improved Might and Kings blessings and up to 2 good auras and the Warriors & Paladins will all get heals every-time they hit a primary target with Seal of Light (which should be crazy-good when the Warriors are dual-wielding) and the Paladins should also be getting mana on hit from Seal of Wisdom. If heal-delay is an issue for any healer Paladins are the only healers to easily self provide > 100% immunity to losing casting time due to incoming damage... For many scenarios the Paladins in mail/plate+shield have the best mitigation and by far the highest survivability with their multiple "oh shit" buttons and the only class able to cleanse 3 types of debuffs...

Paladins are also by far the most mana-efficient healers in the game (except for maybe situation-ally when a Priest can be fed killing blows) making them less likely to hold up the Warriors due to the healer(s) needing to drink. Until Seal of Light I would be a little wary of a single Paladin though as, due to no AoE heals you have to heal single target and I have had multiple times where I would have lost one or more Warriors had I not been able to double the healing throughput via 2 Paladins... That being said I have been a little aggressive in my pulls and have been doing yellow mobs probably too often and so maybe a single Paladin would be OK if I were to go a little less aggressive and/or focus on green mobs... Thus far I have liked the double healing throughput and have liked having 2 rezers in PVE for mistakes but likely when my team is all decked out in BiS gear and I know all the dungeons by heart I will get less value for the 2nd Paladin when grinding... If/when that happens I may swap a Paladin for a 4th Warrior for PVE dungeon grinds...

Overall I do like my 3Warrior+2Paladin group & drive from my 'lead warrior' with the entire team following in melee range attacking. My lead warrior gets all the best gear and I slant him with best 1handers and spec'ed him arms so he can stance dance with minimal, if any, penalty. He lead charges in getting body pull aggro with the other 2 Warriors charging in next and the Paladins have to run up since they don't have charge.

The lead warrior ThunderClaps and then shifts to Defensive stance while the other 2 Warriors stay in BattleStance and both shout (one speced for improved battle shout and the speced for improved demoralizing shout).

Up to 19th Level for large mob pulls I would Thunderclap & initial Rend (I would triple dot a target or two and then focus DPS on other targets till dead while typically the first mobs or two would die to dots).

At 20th Level I switched to Cleave and am still trying to figure out the initiation and follow-up rotations I like best. I am thinking of dropping rend and going (on tougher pulls):

• -All 3 start in BattleStance & Charge (Lead first as he is a few steps ahead and gets in range first getting body pull aggro);
• -All 3 pop BloodRage;
• -Lead ThunderClaps & others shout (1 battle, 1 demoralizing);
• -Lead shifts to Defensive Stance & others ThunderClap (when enough rage) then focus on DPS rotation and controlling aggro via:
  
• -Lead Warrior (Defensive Stance): Revenge>Heroic Strike (boosts Aggro & speced for reduced cost) & taunting if/as needed, maybe ThunderClap if 4+ Targets (since he can change stance without dumping all Rage); Since he is Arms with improved Heroic Strike I am thinking maybe don't cleave from him and just try to control aggro...
  
• -Follow Warriors (Battle Stance): OverPower>Heroic Strike (single target), OverPower>Cleave (2+ targets), Overpower>ThunderClap (4+ targets);

Things I could use help on are:

Feed back on the above initation & rotation plan at 20+ (I am new to cleave) till sweeping strikes.

When should I be Sundering (just on bosses?) and would it make sense to only Sunder from my lead Warrior (since it caused high threat and he has the best armor and only one defaulting to 1H+shield) or should I sunder from all 3 at once (lead warrior is in defensive stance and should have aggro anyway)?

Round-robin setup to rotate Sheild-Bashes from the 3 Warriors (and a way to switch the "Follow" Warriors from 2H to 1H+shield and back);

Insight into other warrior macros people are using as I think I have significant optimization left to do.

[nodoze]

How are you doing with healing in your setup? Grid and vfx?

Would really be nice to get more informations - i am goofing with 4xWA and 1x PA - so overall should be the same setup for us.

what basic macros you are working with ?

Feedback so far from me: Until 20 i will exactly go like you with rotation and specs - perhaps we can compare later on when my team is ready for dungeon

Some info on the healing AddOn and UI setup that I am using is here:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/...845#post422845

Some details on full spec to 60 for both Warrior & Paladin and guides are here:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/...619#post422619

Note that I only included one spec for the non-lead warriors... I would have one specialized in improved demoralizing shout (just move those 5 points around and possibly take booming voice instead of unbridled wrath).

The most important macro you need on all Warriors & Paladin(s), assuming your Paladin is also auto-attacking from melee range, is a simple start attack macro:

/startattack

In my number 1 slot I replaced my default attack button with that and it made a world of difference. I think because each time I pressed attack it would toggle it on/off which was likely lowering my DPS. Now I just press Alt-F (with my thumb & index finger) to make my team follow me (or catch-up or come closer in combat when I need to move a mob or reposition around a mob) and otherwise the 1 key gets them auto-attacking when their abilities are not in use. The difference now is that pressing it multiple times just keeps them auto-attacking when before I was toggling it on/off. Lately on regular mobs I have just been charging in and pressing 1 and letting all 5 auto-attack and build/save rage and mana and then unleash the rage on Elites & Bosses.

On Bosses or Elite mobs when the Warriors charge in both Paladins start their Seals (currently one Crusader and one Justice but later maybe both Light and Wisdom) and then I unleash the seals in the initial rotation. Crusader is kinda a place holder for now as the DPS increase is minor (mainly from ret aura or consecration(s)) but the Seal of Justice is nice for fleeing mobs so I don't need to waste Rage Hamstringing them. I for sure plan to replace 'Seal of Crusader' with 'Seal of Light' but if mana isn't much of an issue then I may just keep 'Seal of Justice' instead of swapping it to 'Seal of Wisdom'.

I do still want to setup in ISboxer a Round-robin setup to rotate Sheild-Bashes from the 3 Warriors (and a way to switch the "Follow" Warriors from 2H to 1H+shield and back). Likely that will require both work in ISboxer and some in game macros as well. Currently I am just doing that manually by switching between my Warriors to rotate bashes for now. That is not the way I want it long term but I figure for now it is good practice to regularly switch between the Warriors and fight from them so that I can readily do that in emergency situations. That is helping me get used to the subtle differences between my warriors and make adjustments as needed and I have even forced myself to also drive from both Paladins... This has pushed me to get the healing VFXs working from every client (though the mining/herbalism/treasure VFXs are only on my regular lead).