I may have gotten the WoW itch, tell me what's happened in the past 2 years.

[heyaz]

I have no interest in doing this, I'm curious as to how Shodokan and others cannot seem to avoid it, since you said there are advanced ways of getting IP addresses and it's common knowledge, yet all I've ever heard of is through Skype or Vent.

[Ellay]

Back on track, what's the DK build that everyone is loving. Can you play 5 previously and heal with vampiric touch or do you need a dedicated healer type?

[Fat Tire]

I have no interest in doing this, I'm curious as to how Shodokan and others cannot seem to avoid it, since you said there are advanced ways of getting IP addresses and it's common knowledge, yet all I've ever heard of is through Skype or Vent.

The only thing someone needs to get your ip from skype is your user name and then trace your ip using Skype resolvers. This isnt rocket science. Why would anyone use other methods if grabbing it from skype works. Most people that play wow use skype to communicate. I know I said there are other ways, if you dont believe me, thats fine. I am not here to prove anything or provide details and since this is a public website its not in my best interest, bottom line is it happens and its easy. The sad part is that there are people who take a game so seriously that they have to resort to something that is illegal.

[Kromtor]

Ellay, I haven't fully looked into it I've just messed with blood, but it seems that the all of the group healing abilities of the DK have been removed. They heal themselves quite strongly still though with death strike, vampiric blood, rune tap, etc. The only thing it appears you can do as far helping allies is with the death coil glyph which gives them a shield which could buy them time to heal themselves. I haven't tested it though and the tooltip makes it seems rather tiny.

Plus you get a battle res which is great in PvE

[Fat Tire]

I personally dont like boxing dks because of the way KM works with obliterate, since obi is you burst/dmg dealer in pvp. If you are boxing 4 and only 2 have the KM procs and you press your Obi button, only 2 are going to crit. Obi's are only good if they crit. I dont know, personally I like more control over my dps and keeping track of KMs across a team is not very fun to me.

[Ellay]

Either way the discussion is great. I'm probably a week out before I get back into the actual game. So just doing a ton of research.

I was kind of leaning towards the DK + Paladins or Enhancement Shamans, but either way I have a set of Dk's / Paladins / Shamans to work with and I guess with the scroll of res you can just instant boost anything to 80? besides monk of course.

Kromtor if the DK's don't have much in the way of healing, why would you consider dropping the dk / 4 ret paladin team for more dk's if they won't survive. Or is it the hope of bursting down before they need the heals.

[remanz]

Melees, I tried, DKs, Rets, Warriors, Enhances.

Frost DK:

Overall damage Frost DKs are far ahead of everything else. Sustain + burst > Rets or Warriors. It is squishier vs the other 2. So you only got about 1.7 HP bar with dark pact to zerg someone down. Frost DKs are weaker than they are in Cata. Blood DKs are broken. It is currently not really dying in arena. So Death Strike for blood is getting a nerf.

Warriors:

Warriors are the burst king obviously, but that's going away with avatar nerf and possible 5 stack of taste for blood reduced to 3. 1 change I don't quite get with MOP is the "be able to sit in defense stance to do everything now, and defense stance is -25% by default ? wot? " So warriors are walking around with a 25% damage reduction by default. I also played warrior solo with my friends. I just sit in 1h + shield to mortal strike + overpower + overpower to gain taste of blood stacks. As soon as I get 5, I swap 2h and do colossus smash -> all CDs -> heroic strike 1 shot. It is a 300k + heroic strike. There is no stopping it If I have trinket + avatar ready. Boxing wise, warriors are not so great, the damage outside of the CDs are shitty. No anti mass CC (mass spell reflect doesn't work against AOE CC). So I can't keep be in melee all the time.

Rets:

Boxing wise, rets are just not working at all as DPS. They are the ultimate support in arena. With god like off healing, double freedom, double HOS, double HOP, and shitty damage. Rets got a small burst window with wings + HA. Even that it is baby damage comparing to what DKs and warriors can do. 4 Rets cannot even global a clothie even with CDs all burnt. It is very slow. 5 holy power templar's verdict supposed to be rets' hardest hitting skill. That hits non-crit for 38k, nearly useless.

Enhances:

I didn't get to try a whole lot about enhances due to lack of gears. But I like the burst potential. They do need the healers to be able on ball with the healings or defensive CDs. With warriors getting nerfed, I think enhance will easily top warriors in burst as it is range.


edit: I tried all these combos with 5s. None of them are working for 5 box, at least for me. 5s in US bloodlust battlegroup are 10mins queue with all those pro teams boosting for money. Not enjoyable for boxers. So I switched to 2s and 3s at the moment. 2s are full of teams that are trying to cap points. So I get a lot of wins there. Once going above 1500 ratings, it becomes competitive. No healer, no win.

[heyaz]

Obi's are only good if they crit..

No they are good without a crit as well, they just hit for half as much. With it being so easy to stack up all diseases in order to max obliterate damage, it's still a good burst. It would be nice to be able to easily manage KM procs across all DKs but as of now they are still doing the most burst despite probably not having KM procced on all DKs. Sustained damage is also fairly high.

On another note, the amount of CC protection DK's is probably better than any other class in the game right now:
1. AMZ anti all magic debuffs including fear, poly, and death grip
2. lichborne anti-fear/seduce/sleep
3. pillar of frost anti-knockback, including deathgrip
4. IBF anti-stun
5. pillar of frost glyphed = 1 minute trinket with no shared cooldown, if you want to sacrifice some burst. With your pvp trinket that's 3 trinkets out of anything every 2 minutes. If you don't need the pvp trinket, go with the other DPS trinket for another 1200+ pvp power and you can be rocking 45% pvp power easy

2, 4, and 5 can be used when already CC'd.

That and you have an aoe CC which is a bitch: remorseless winter. It stacks faster with multiple DK's casting it and it's a stun so it does not break on damage.

If you run several DKs it's probably worth grabbing 1-2 asphyxiate since you don't really need 4-5x chillblains as they're going to be slowed anyway. Asphyxiate turns strangulate into a stun, making it useful against non-casters. Yes, you lose strangulate, but I can't imagine many scenarios where you would need to use 4-5 strangulates within the cooldown window, and if you did, asphyxiate accomplishes the same thing.

[remanz]

That and you have an aoe CC which is a bitch: remorseless winter. It stacks faster with multiple DK's casting it and it's a stun so it does not break on damage.

Lately, I've seen a lot of DKs ditching remorseless winter for desecrated ground for CC immune. I do think the AOE freeze is a bit overrated. With multiple DKs, should just go immune to CC and pew pew. Combined with anti magic shell, you got as much up time as any melees can get.

[heyaz]

boxers ditching remorseless winter or single players? I see desecrated ground pretty often among single players but I don't know if multiboxers are ditching it. You do have to stay within that little circle to be immune... but I guess you could death grip everyone in there.