5 Warlocks, is it viable at 90?

[tsircou]

So I'm setting up a 5 Warlock team and I'm wondering if it's actually viable at 90? It'd seem with all the burst damage they have it'd work pretty well. I'm leaning more towards destruction, primarily because I haven't played the other specs much. I think the strength of Conflgarate, Fel Flame, and Rain of Fire all being instant casts you'd have some great burst potential. That's not even including the short cast times on Incinerate, and the burst potential of Chaos Bolt. So what am I missing here?

[Khatovar]

Viable for what? Ebony has been running 5 destruction warlocks since beta. She's done some dungeon stuff and pvp.

[Ualaa]

Five warlocks could work, but four warlocks and a healer is a strong option too.

If you're interested in PvP, five of the same might be the best.
Although a healer gets you the option to ressurrect, should you survive on some of your toons.
The warlocks can Soul Stone, which is like a battle rez.

If you're interested in PvE, and 5-man content..
You'll likely want a healer capable toon and a tank capable toon.
That doesn't mean you need to be in those specs, but being able to spec in those directions lets you use Dungeon Finder.

Warlocks can play as a dot class (Affliction).
They can play as a pet class (Demonology), with limited tanking ability via glyph.
They can play as a nuke class (Destruction).

They have Healthstones and Soulstones.
They can Drain Life to heal.
Affliction has more heals then the other specs.
You can distribute damage partially to your pet with Soul Link.

I like the class, but am not sure what you want to do with them.

[tsircou]

For PvP primarily. Hmmm....not too many videos out there, I guess I'll have to venture out into un-treaded waters. In theory everything looks solid though. Maybe Ebony could chime in with some of her experiences? Or anybody else with 5 warlock experience.

[Apatheist]

I don't really see any reason not to add one healer to a PvP setup. Damage is nice, but I find my burst goes down quite a lot when I'm dead.

[Lyonheart]

Damage is nice, but I find my burst goes down quite a lot when I'm dead.

Well put!

[Ualaa]

The drawback to a healer on a PvP team, is that they're focused.
So you need a degree of survivability.

Less so in world/battleground play, where things are hectic.
And more so, in arena where it is five vs five.
But still, the healer (or different class) will get extra attention.

A Paladin as your healer can be a good choice, because you have three basic cooldowns.
Bubble is a survivability cooldown and Devotion Aura (previously Aura Mastery) will let you cast without interruptions.
All other class cooldowns go onto the "big button", which massively increases your healing through-put.
I also put the healer trinket on a separate keybind from the others, which has helped a lot.

If your characters are Destro Locks, they'll be standing and casting.
Which means a healer who stands and heals will work.
If you spec into Affliction and stay on the move, a more mobile healer (Priest/Druid) might be a better choice.



The flip side is, if you can survive without a healer, then you have a lot more DPS which means you need healing less.
The caveat is, can you survive without the healer?

My 5x Ferals had enough healing through Leader of the Pack and/or 5x Lifebloom/Rejuvenation.
They also had Predatory Swiftness, approximately once every ten seconds of combat against a single target.
The team did not need a dedicated healer for questing or battlegrounds; I don't imagine it would have worked that well in arena though.
By having five DPS, they were able to defeat quest mobs in Cataclysm that the 4x DK/1x Paladin team could not defeat; the Baron Geddon, in Mount Hyjal, was the only boss they couldn't "kill" while ignoring quest items that weaken the mob.
Conversely, the 4x DK/1x Paladin died on three other mobs that the Druids had no issue with.

So what survival, or self healing options do 5x Warlocks have?
Tier 1: Harvest Life (AoE Drain Life)
Tier 2: Mortal Coil x5 (15% heal, 45 second reuse) or a mixture of AoE Fear and AoE Stun.
Tier 3: Soul Link (Half of damage taken goes to the pet) or Dark Bargain (8 seconds of damage immunity, but then take 50% of what you would have taken over 8 seconds; on a 3 minute cooldown)
Tier 4: Unbound Will (same as your PvP trinket, on a 1 minute cooldown)... a 1 min PvP trinket, plus your 2 min PvP trinket...
Tier 5: Stronger Pets or an extra Pet for burst or no Pet (with 2% Regen every 5 seconds, and some spells are stronger).
Tier 6: Archimonde's Vengeance (opponent within 40 yards takes 125% of the AoE damage your team takes), which could kill someone who AoE's your team.
Glyph of Demon Training w/ Felhunter = Heals you, whenever your Felhunter devours a magic effect.
Glyph of Siphon Life = You heal 20% of your Corruption damage.
Healthstone = Heal
Soulstone = B.Rez

Is it enough survival/healing, to outlast opponents with your 25% increased DPS (5/4 = 125% of 4/4 =100%).

[Apatheist]

Self-healing isn't reliable, the character will be interrupted and CC'd during a switch. Rets can cross heal fairly well, but it's still not consistent.

Having bad teams focus your healer will win you games, you hope that's what they'll do One of the reasons DK's are so good in arena is their ability to peel. Warlocks may be almost as good with their instant fear, silence, etc.

Not having a healer just seems silly to me. Between LOS/CC/Interrupts, you're not going to be able to burst anyone down on a caster team. No healer just means the other team can sit back and pick you apart.

In BG's, it's already horrible getting a queue with no healers. You're doing a service to yourself and the rest of the team by bringing one.

[Ualaa]

OP just asked if they were viable.

We don't know if this is a PvE or a PvP server.
We don't know if they'll be questing up, instancing up, or running battlegrounds.

We really don't know what the question is in regards... viable for what?




If they're on a PvE server, then PvP is purely consensual.
5x Warlocks might be extremely viable for questing, dailies on the team, and battleground style PvP.
Possibly as DPS in LFR or a guild raid.
Pretty sure a healer (probably played by someone else) will be a requirement for success in arena 5's.

If they're on a PvP server, then they can get into combat at any point.
Sometimes they'll be outnumbered or against someone much higher level.




If the focus is on Arena, then the question of which viability still varies.
Is the goal to hit 1800 and to push for 2200+?
Is the goal to cap Conquest Points weekly?
With MMR, if you play on days when the masses are playing (Mon before server reset, Tue after server reset, Weekend afternoons), you'll eventually encounter teams at your skill level.
The system is not perfect, you do get teams well above and below you.

If the focus is on Battlegrounds, a much less optimal composition will work fine.

I've seen boxers post that they want their team displayed on Grid/Vuhdo/Healbot, but have no interest in displaying the rest of the raid.
Basically meaning, if they bring a healer it is purely for their team.
If your healer will help the raid/battleground out, as well as your characters then bringing a healer to a battleground is a bonus for others.

[heyaz]

Self healing from pure classes has never been reliable. It always looks amazing on paper until you start dying. Even hybrid healing won't keep you alive against burst for long at all.

In battlegrounds and outdoor pvp you could do some amazing burst but a couple healers around will ruin your day. In arena you'd have to really exploit a seriously overpowered and broken mechanic to get to a high rating, and then that could just get nerfed. If you either 4 box and have a separate healer, or 5 box with your own healer it may work out a lot better. You could always make the 5th a priest and run shadow when you want to dps or disc/holy otherwise. I ran that comp back in BC and it was fun in BGs but even when I tried SL/SL spec on the locks they still died sooner rather than later. I finished out that expansion as a dot and run group, all affliction + shadow priest. A lot has changed since then sure, but it's still just a pure class with some minor healing.