Mosg2's DK Manifesto

[Hivetyrant]

I had decided to not bother boxxing in Cata as I wasn't convinced any of my teams would be fun enough to take through, but your vid convinced me that this comp will be a blast (literally)

[Mosg2]

Wow, I'm really touched with the amount of good will and positivity in this thread--I was hoping for a response like this but wasn't really expecting it, if y'know what I mean

@Ualaa:

Yes, I think that some sort of do-not-proceed setup that pre-empts the main weighted DPS key would work great. The only problem with that is that you're *potentially* losing some Necrotic Strikes due to Runic Empowerment resetting your Unholy rune. Hmmmm.

Another thing you could do would be to set up a /castsequence Howling Blast, Necrotic Strike key for your downpress and have it alternate--Two toons would go HB/NS, two would go NS/HB. You would leave your uppress to do the same thing it does now--At ranged you'd still HB whenever you had the runes for it. Hmmmm. Again though you run into problems where you're potentially losing some extra NS's due to Runic Empowerment.

Maybe the best option is just going to be letting it be free-for-all? I'm just wondering how much you gain by making the setup more consistent with application of Necrotic Strike vs what you lose by making your setup more rigid and not allowing for Runic Empowerment to be fully utilized.

Oh, and I totally forgot about Hungering Cold in the video >< It's honestly not super useful considering you're spamming Howling Blast all the time, but there are situations where it's useful.

[heyaz]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to post some concerns... can't all be positive.

First off, you said 2-3 globals to kill non-healer dps (assuming without passive healing and shields). That seems like an eternity for a multibox team in pvp - quad elemental shaman were doing it in 1-2 globals, if it took a 3rd you probably weren't getting the kill and needed to switch. The dk/rets could cut a lot of people to 20% on the first judge+white, then HoW for the kill. Before the resil buff, of course.

I have to admit the team sounds, in theory, amazing for multiboxing. The video made me very excited.You really tied everything together for how this would work, but ultimately, having not seen what I consider the first (and often last) test of viability - reliable burst on a high resilience target, and the ability to kill healers, even if it takes a few extra globals. If a healer can tank your team for more than a few globals, or even indefinitely (which happened to the dk/rets after the first resil buff last season), then it's most certainly fail. Perhaps that's where 4 strangulates and round robin mind freezes come in play, but I'm still wondering how long it takes to kill a healer just standing there doing nothing.

Love the theory, but hard to believe it without seeing a video of them in action with a breakdown of how you play the team and how it works in a real pvp situation.

[Toonarmy]

This is great. Once again I stand in awe of this community. Thanks guys.

[Mosg2]

Well, remember that the DK's GCD's are one second or less via Unholy Presence and you're getting 8x free HB while running to your target/while they're getting DG'd in. My guys are sitting at 682 resilience in mostly blue gear with the 1800 weapons and they destroy 1200+ resilience targets usually in less than 3 seconds. I will try and make it a point to stream some BG's so you can see what it's like--Though, I'm a little skeptical that it'll give the wrong impression My guys die pretty fast due to the gear issue.

Something that Shodokan pointed out to me tonight was that at 85 you'll be able to spec your DK's into Resilient Infection so that if someone tried to dispel your diseases your team just gets free Howling Blasts--Since you're not using Blood Plague at all they can only dispel the Frost Fever

Powerhouse!

[tundra622]

You have almost sold me and i don't plan on pvping any time soon

[heyaz]

Well, remember that the DK's GCD's are one second or less via Unholy Presence and you're getting 8x free HB while running to your target/while they're getting DG'd in. My guys are sitting at 682 resilience in mostly blue gear with the 1800 weapons and they destroy 1200+ resilience targets usually in less than 3 seconds. I will try and make it a point to stream some BG's so you can see what it's like--Though, I'm a little skeptical that it'll give the wrong impression My guys die pretty fast due to the gear issue.

Something that Shodokan pointed out to me tonight was that at 85 you'll be able to spec your DK's into Resilient Infection so that if someone tried to dispel your diseases your team just gets free Howling Blasts--Since you're not using Blood Plague at all they can only dispel the Frost Fever

Powerhouse!

Dying fast due to bad gear I can understand, a plate class with heavy defensive cooldowns will only get better with more resilience, I have no doubts about that (whereas shaman really never got very tough, no matter how much resil.).. but I'd like to see some killing

[Shodokan]

Dying fast due to bad gear I can understand, a plate class with heavy defensive cooldowns will only get better with more resilience, I have no doubts about that (whereas shaman really never got very tough, no matter how much resil.).. but I'd like to see some killing

This team's damage is ridiculous. 2-3 globals is not a lot, especially with necrotic strike. No they don't have instagib with flame shock + lavaburst but even then thats 2 globals without EM.

[remanz]

While I like the discussion we got going here, about teams/combos, how would they fair in pvp (arena/bgs).

But ultimately, does it really matter ? I thought you would get gear if you just keep doing arena or bgs in cata. There is no rating requirements on 2k rating gears anymore, is there ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but we would not be blocked by arena 1800 ratings anymore for the weapons right ?. We would just get them. So in a way, the team WILL work.

While I had the same concerns that Heyaz had about the dks (not able to down target in time, 1 BOP then you would have to rely on paladin to keep the DKs up, AOE stun, CC on paladin), I am sure they would be very fun.

[Ualaa]

Not sure how strong healing is going to be, at 85th.
And that will probably be a key point.

If we have four Necrotic Strikes landing every five seconds.
Or eight every ten seconds, and sustain that.
We're looking at approximately 6k off of every heal or every HoT tick.
A new necrotic strike will almost always overwrite the previous as soon as it is depleted.

While the composition might not have FS/LvB to instantly down someone.
It does have a lot of DPS pressure and the resistance to heals.
Howling Blast punishes everyone in the area, meaning you can kill large groups at once.
And unlike the level 80 game, even discounting Necrotic Strike, healers won't be able to full heal anyone virtually instantly.
Mana is a finite resource, one of the goals of the expansion; runes on the other hand, cycle at their pace indefinitely and never run out.




My biggest questions for the team are how they deal with the banes of boxing and melee in general.

Priests, Warlocks and Warriors have AoE fear, which can suck pretty bad.
Thunderstorm, especially staggered but spammed, is basically the same result.
The team will have trinkets against the first effect.
If the Pally is not hit, we have cleanse at least until our DK's run out of range.
We can make fear classes priority targets, but regardless will have to deal with this a lot.

The other concern is Snare and Root effects.
Death Grip, will bring targets to us frequently, which mitigates this to a degree.

Will Anti-Magic Shell protect us against the freezing effects of Frost Nova.
How about Entangling Roots/Cyclone, Sheep/Seduction or Frost Trap?

How about an Earthbind Totem or Mages snaring shield.

What do we have against those rogues who like to Sap one team member, but not engage?

I realize single boxers will go down fairly fast.
And with Death Grip, we can bring them into the killing zone often.
But don't like Snare/Roots or Fears as a boxed team, especially as a melee team.