Big changes coming to 10/25 Raiding in Cataclysm.

[Sam DeathWalker]

You said it. They seem to be really dumbing things down

I can just imagine if you were newts or goods on Sullon Zek in EQ1 and evil bard speedd trained your raid every night for months with every non boss mob (and non thethered bosses) in the whole dungon attacking you at one time causing at least a one hour rez mess. And you lost exp if you didnt rez in 24 hours .... and there were Naked (or alt gear) corpse runs (in some zones pre PoP). People would log in, wipe for 12 hours stright and consider it lucky that they didnt LOSE exp that day. I can't remember but didnt you even lose all your gear if you didnt get back to your body within 24 hours or so, dang.

You guys have just no concept of what real difficulty is. You would have quit SZ after the first day.

There are no trains in wow ...... The raids are instances even on pvp servers ..... Mobs can't attack you on corpse runs .... ummm


You log in.
You die.
Welcome to SZ, enjoy your stay.



I can imagine someone reading this whose first game is wow thinking,

"What is he talking about they made a game wehre when you raided you had to fight off the other two enemy factions at the same time you were raiding??????. And they could gather up all the mobs in the zone and dump all the mobs on you at one time?????

How did they do that?

Mobs could kill you on Corpse Runs and you lost exp and gear if you didnt get back to your body naked?????? What????? No wonder people play wow instead of eq.

[Svpernova09]

I can just imagine if you were newts or goods on Sullon Zek in EQ1 and evil bard speedd trained your raid every night for months with every non boss mob (and non thethered bosses) in the whole dungon attacking you at one time causing at least a one hour rez mess. And you lost exp if you didnt rez in 24 hours .... and there were Naked (or alt gear) corpse runs (in some zones pre PoP). People would log in, wipe for 12 hours stright and consider it lucky that they didnt LOSE exp that day. I can't remember but didnt you even lose all your gear if you didnt get back to your body within 24 hours or so, dang.

You guys have just no concept of what real difficulty is. You would have quit SZ after the first day.

There are no trains in wow ...... The raids are instances even on pvp servers ..... Mobs can't attack you on corpse runs .... ummm


You log in.
You die.
Welcome to SZ, enjoy your stay.

Uphill both ways in the snow...blah blah blah... Comparing WoW raids to EQ raids isn't really effective. Yes raiding in EQ was harder, yes raiding in WoW is easier. Welcome to 2004 I'd like to introduce you to a game called World of Warcraft.

Times change, you can't dwell on the past, you can only hope to remember it and learn from it. There is a reason EQ went by the wayside and WoW is so popular. There is a reason WoW continues to be so popular. They dumbed down the game to the common denominator. Any (and most do) idiot that is so inclined can beat their head against content and make it reasonable far with reasonably good success. You'll always have both sides of the camp. Elitists crying that it's too easy, and Casuals crying that it's too hard.

I welcome any change that allows more people to have access to content. I have a full time job already, I don't raid to work, I raid to have fun. Is raiding work? Sure. But it won't be a full time job for me. Does that mean I won't see content clear? Depends totally on me, and thats exactly how I like it.

If you're an elitist and you think content is too easy, go back to EQ or whatever game is "harder than wow" and enjoy your hard content. Get the hell out of my MMO, your tears are eating up my latency.

If you're a casual and you think content is too hard, go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure. If you refuse to learn anything about the game you're playing, how can you expect to do anything? Get the hell out of my MMO, your LFG is eating up my trade trolling.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ya well just pointing out the old days to those who havn't experienced them.

As you say the less difficult that the game is the more likely you will have more players.....

I do think the game is to easy but that cuts to my advantage so I don't really complain about it. Clearly the faster you can level one character is better for those leveling many characters.

[Fat Tire]

If you're an elitist and you think content is too easy, go back to EQ or whatever game is "harder than wow" and enjoy your hard content. Get the hell out of my MMO, your tears are eating up my latency.

Good post.

Gotta think how much money blizz will save on bandwidth expenses. I know our 10 man runs are sooooo much faster than 25. Normally, for our 10 mans we have our best/like minded players and it allows us to advance much quicker than 25 mans. 11/12 normal 25man, 7/12 heroic 10 man for us and we only spend 1 night a week on 10 mans opposed to 3 nights on 25 man.

[Vecter]

Good post.

Gotta think how much money blizz will save on bandwidth expenses. I know our 10 man runs are sooooo much faster than 25. Normally, for our 10 mans we have our best/like minded players and it allows us to advance much quicker than 25 mans. 11/12 normal 25man, 7/12 heroic 10 man for us and we only spend 1 night a week on 10 mans opposed to 3 nights on 25 man.

There is a whole bunch of new content, not sure if they will end up saving anything. Path of the Titans, the new 5mans, new zones, new races...just seems like there might be more bandwidth needs. I doubt this was much of a factor in their changes.

[Fat Tire]

There is a whole bunch of new content, not sure if they will end up saving anything. Path of the Titans, the new 5mans, new zones, new races...just seems like there might be more bandwidth needs. I doubt this was much of a factor in their changes.

I was being facetious. I gotta start putting one of those little emoticons in my posts more often.

[pinotnoir]

I think making both normals the same is a good move. I always wondered why they didn't do that before. It really does not matter to me how big the raid is. I would argue that having less people makes the raid harder because you do not have all the extra people to pick up the slack. 10 Man raids are more rewarding to me. They are more personal. You have a better chance to get loot you need. And they are less forgiving because you don't have a ton of people to pickup your slack. Back in the 40 man raid days I really couldnt stand listening to the hand full of assholes who would never shut up on vent. Plus you never got loot and it sucked. 25 mans were better but still in my opinion too many assholes. 10 mans are just right. If we can get 2 5boxers to do the new 10 mans then I will be really happy. That would be a great challenge if they didn't make too many gimmicky fights that causes problems with us boxers.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Heh, the official forums thread about this is 65 pages long and it's only been 3 hours since it was posted. /lol

"Hi, general forum crowd. I'd like to interest you in Ugh's Universal Panty Untwister. It doubles as a general Discombobulator for those moments when Blizzard development posts in any raid, paladin or PVP thread. Get them now -- supplies are limited!!!"

[Seraphaw]

The days of managing large groups of people are over I suppose.
There was something magic about 40 people coming together and struggling at bosses for weeks, just an epic feeling that I haven't felt since vanilla. I'm not even looking through nostalgiagoggles here, there was alot of hardships trying to get 40 coherent and active people in the same raid but it was an epic struggle that was half the appeal of raiding.

With these changes coming I fail to see why anyone would want to make the effort to build up a raiding roster for 25 people in cataclysm. There is nothing wrong with raiding 10 mans, it's nice to play with a smaller group and you need people to be at their best because nobody else is going to pick up your slack.
But it's not a challenge, unless you play with knucklebrained retards (who should have an easy time anyway since content and gear is easily available to anyone).

This is starting to look like the final nail in the coffin and I don't think I have ever said that before.

[Vecter]

Original post updated with Blizzard updates.