4x Enhancement arena?

[asonimie]

Gear? PTR. Full relentless premades with double 2.6 1800rating axes. WFs hitting with 7500AP.

Fully top geared.

And @naysayser: No I did not spam purge hots unless there was nothing else to cast because in a real arena game with 2 healers someone else will always be healing your target. No the druid didn't kite me around, the druid was my roommate and we did a "sitting duck" target test basically, just sat there and let me beat on him target dummy style, basically best case scenario.

I will play with them some more but I was being realistic about the situation with my prediction because I know how the CC, roots, and especially HEALING are at top end arena... their damage just doesn't feel right at all. It felt like playing with 2 elementals. Also, I'm not going to do damage tests on a mage or some piece of kleenex class - eventually you will need to kill a plate.... and the shaman damage suffered badly here (tree form=plate dps armor). Also roots suck, but they aren't a game ender with 2-3 ways to break roots.

The reason I'm being negative here is because A) Its true and B) Lots of people are thinking about dumping valuable points on enhancement gear right now and I don't want anyone making an irreversible mistake.

Edit: If anyone wants to do further testing with enhancement, I already have the toons, gearing, and macros ready to go. I can't do infinite testing because we are out of premade copies, but please contact me and make a healer / whatever class, and I'll come beat on you while we discuss things over vent. I am happy to help in any way.

[Mokoi]

Gear? PTR. Full relentless premades with double 2.6 1800rating axes. WFs hitting with 7500AP.

Fully top geared.

And @naysayser: No I did not spam purge hots unless there was nothing else to cast because in a real arena game with 2 healers someone else will always be healing your target. No the druid didn't kite me around, the druid was my roommate and we did a "sitting duck" target test basically, just sat there and let me beat on him target dummy style, basically best case scenario.

I will play with them some more but I was being realistic about the situation with my prediction because I know how the CC, roots, and especially HEALING are at top end arena... their damage just doesn't feel right at all. It felt like playing with 2 elementals. Also, I'm not going to do damage tests on a mage or some piece of kleenex class - eventually you will need to kill a plate.... and the shaman damage suffered badly here (tree form=plate dps armor). Also roots suck, but they aren't a game ender with 2-3 ways to break roots.

The reason I'm being negative here is because A) Its true and B) Lots of people are thinking about dumping valuable points on enhancement gear right now and I don't want anyone making an irreversible mistake.

Edit: If anyone wants to do further testing with enhancement, I already have the toons, gearing, and macros ready to go. I can't do infinite testing because we are out of premade copies, but please contact me and make a healer / whatever class, and I'll come beat on you while we discuss things over vent. I am happy to help in any way.

were you interrupting his casted heals? If you are shocking his regrowths, and purging his rejuvs, i don't see how he could live more than 4 seconds oO sure, he has a couple good cooldowns, but.. it seems like something is missing.

was he playing a good druid, and hotting and then bearforming? because im sure then you would have a tough time doing anything to him, full relentless druid armor in bearform would be tough to crack =/

[asonimie]

You guys are missing the point. I didn't want to test what it was like to fight an active kiting druid. He was simulating an average high armor target.... basically playing a training dummy with resilience that can heal itself. It could have been a dps warrior, ret pally, whatever. The point is against non cloth/leather targets, the dmg was low.

Purging and shocking? In a real arena match I would have focus assigned shocks and blah blah blah yes I am crazy good with macros and control... thats not the point. I let him heal, because it roughly simulates the amount of healing he would receive in a 5v5 match with the 2nd healer spamming him. Argue that if desired, but its the reality against a good 5v5 team. You won't successfully micromanage shocking every heal... not if you want to dps.

The point is, these guys are taking longer to dps someone down than other 4 dps comps I've been testing. The fact they are rootable, nonstealth, and have no MS means they have little to offer other than dps and hex... which is pretty much useless in 5v5 anyway. I have also come to realize the basic idea of enhancement shaman 4box arena is a bit flawed anyway, why? Enhancement shamans fit the same role as elemental shamans, ie. 4dps, no MS, poor cc etc. Enhancement doesn't bring any real tricks to the table that elemental doesn't already provide. So whats my point? High end arena healers vs. potential burst. The fellow top rated ele boxers and I will agree, that if we have trouble dropping a target with an instant 65-70k spell damage burst(not mitigated by armor) because enemy healers are so reactive and quick.... what makes us think we could drop a target from melee range with a max burst/second of maybe ~30k(resilience AND armor mitigated) ?? Exactly.

Also, I've been playing them in WSG to test open pvp... and they just get destroyed compared to my rogues or probably even pallies.... altho I have not been impressed with ret pallies either.

fyi, since 4 days ago my rogues on live are lvl 50 no RAF. This gives you an idea where I think the power is at.

[remanz]

6 seconds CD interrupt, and constant purging, those are the things that make enhancement kill healers. Without them, I don't think enhance can kill healers. So asonimie's testing is pretty accruate. In 5 v 5 arena, no way you interrupt the healer's heal if you are not on that healer. You need the burst or healing debuff to kill. I am sure he can kill the single tree druid quicker, if he rotate his interrupt and purge. But that's not realistic in an arena 5 v 5 situation.

Ret paladins has no interrupt, no healing debuff. So obviously it has higher burst. Especially when you open those wings after bubble, not to mention you have stun to keep your target there. Also I think the strength of paladins is the defense. The instant heal + hots x 4 really = a holy paladin currently (not sure after the nerf). So in 5 v 5, you basically have 5 dps and 1 holy paladin healing.

About rogues, I see it working with all CDs intact. What happen after you blow your CDs and kill 1 target. Plus as far as burst go, it seems only combat spec can deal high burst. But the survival is kinda low for them.

[asonimie]

@rogues: just the opposite. I tried both specs with the following results.

Mut/Prep (assassination/sub): amazing dps, non-cooldown based. Mutilate alone will destroy any single target in 1-3 seconds (if not a tank w/ tank gear of course). Massive defensive cooldowns, and buffs to the important core abilities I need for 5v5. Some of my fastest kills were no cooldowns used, mut spam.

Combat/KS: Way more cooldown based, made me feel like a 3 minute mage back in the day. While killing spree is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen in wow (40 weapon hits in 2.5 seconds).... once the KS is done I feel rather naked with only SinisterStrike spam.

Seeing is believing, they sounded mediocre to me, but after killing priests stunned and dead in 2 seconds... I'm a believer. Biggest threat to a rogue? Melee cleave. 15-20second evasion while you kill all the casters? Amazing.

Oh and icing on the cake.. remember how much we shamans hate destro locks? Ya.. I kill them in about 2 seconds now.

[Naysayer]

6 seconds CD interrupt, and constant purging, those are the things that make enhancement kill healers. Without them, I don't think enhance can kill healers. So asonimie's testing is pretty accruate. In 5 v 5 arena, no way you interrupt the healer's heal if you are not on that healer. You need the burst or healing debuff to kill. I am sure he can kill the single tree druid quicker, if he rotate his interrupt and purge. But that's not realistic in an arena 5 v 5 situation.

Ret paladins has no interrupt, no healing debuff. So obviously it has higher burst. Especially when you open those wings after bubble, not to mention you have stun to keep your target there. Also I think the strength of paladins is the defense. The instant heal + hots x 4 really = a holy paladin currently (not sure after the nerf). So in 5 v 5, you basically have 5 dps and 1 holy paladin healing.

How is Kromtor or whatever his name is at 2200 if you can't interrupt multiple healers? You say you need burst or healing debuff, neither have a healing debuff, so paladin burst is that much higher than enhancement? Hard to believe that. Especially when enhance can purge off defenses. If they're not on par, they aren't far off, especially with the wolves.

Yah, and paladin can't pop wings after bubble. I doubt Kromtor is popping wings until the fights over and there's only one stubborn enemy left. He's mentioned using bubble often to stiffle cc so he can keep the pressure on, so pretty much none of his matches are being won by popping wings at all.

[Iceorbz]

6 seconds CD interrupt, and constant purging, those are the things that make enhancement kill healers. Without them, I don't think enhance can kill healers. So asonimie's testing is pretty accruate. In 5 v 5 arena, no way you interrupt the healer's heal if you are not on that healer. You need the burst or healing debuff to kill. I am sure he can kill the single tree druid quicker, if he rotate his interrupt and purge. But that's not realistic in an arena 5 v 5 situation.

Ret paladins has no interrupt, no healing debuff. So obviously it has higher burst. Especially when you open those wings after bubble, not to mention you have stun to keep your target there. Also I think the strength of paladins is the defense. The instant heal + hots x 4 really = a holy paladin currently (not sure after the nerf). So in 5 v 5, you basically have 5 dps and 1 holy paladin healing.

About rogues, I see it working with all CDs intact. What happen after you blow your CDs and kill 1 target. Plus as far as burst go, it seems only combat spec can deal high burst. But the survival is kinda low for them.

Repentence, Hammer of Justice, Arcane Torrent, Seal of Justice are all ways to interrupt spells. Once a targeted is judged justice, hes only 100% run speed. Where the ret paladin is 115%. Rogues are rediculous DPS, so you prolly could blow cd's kill one and another, vanish prep and do it again.

[Naysayer]

The fellow top rated ele boxers and I will agree, that if we have trouble dropping a target with an instant 65-70k spell damage burst(not mitigated by armor) because enemy healers are so reactive and quick.... what makes us think we could drop a target from melee range with a max burst/second of maybe ~30k(resilience AND armor mitigated) ?? Exactly.

Paladin burst isn't all that great anymore either, yet that one guy is rated 2200. They've got no MS. Most of the paladin holy damage has been changed to physical. So, how's he doing it?