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  1. #1

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    Actually, what I really want to know is - does the other programs have any functionality that HKN doesn't? :-)
    I would like to see this too. Maybe the authors of the software could tell us what makes their program unique!
    Just by answering this we might be violating the rules of the forums... but if you really want to know what is really different, I'll throw in my "fair and balanced" answer. (that's a jab at Fox "News" in case someone missed it)

    ISBoxer, by way of using Inner Space, works differently than every other multiboxing software available to date. It's also the quickest and easiest to set up for WoW, via the Quick Setup Wizard (as demoed in the 40 second configuration video).

    Exclusive features (ones you cant and wont find in HKN, KC, GCP, etc) during gameplay include:

    • Precise mouse broadcasting with a visible cursor in each window even on the same PC. For example, if you are broadcasting the mouse and trying to have all your toons click on a portal, you will see the cursor change on each window to indicate when the mouse is properly positioned in each
    • Virtual Files, which allow you to have ONE folder for performance reasons, while maintaining separate configuration files per character or per account (the Quick Setup Wizard and the Virtual File Wizard both set them up for you per character)
    • Instant window swapping. Other products claim "almost instant" or "practically instant" etc. It's not the same thing. People coming to ISBoxer from other software will tell you the difference is night and day, and will say things like "it changed the way I play, because I now switch all the time instead of avoiding it like the plague because it could get me killed while I wait up to 7 seconds for it to switch". It's instant regardless of the framerate of the game, so even in Dalaran you're going to get an instant switch, and even on a slow PC it's still instant. (Note that some people prefer to disable window swapping or prevent it from happening most of the time, e.g. to click on a background window to cast a spell instead of switching to it, which is fine too)
    • Interactive in-game UI (not the same as a WoW Addon, which ISBoxer also has -- this feature works in all supported games) which for example allows in-game configuration of Repeater Regions -- where you drag a box over something you want to automatically broadcast the mouse when it's over (it's possible to do regions in other software, but not via an interactive in-game UI). This is extremely useful for healing in conjunction with click to cast + sorted party unit frames. I heal my multiboxing teams exactly the same way as I heal when I play my healer in a raid, even if I'm playing my tank or a DPS at the time.
    • Provides immunity to the "window needs to be foreground" problem various games have (EQ1, EQ2,LOTRO to name a few), can stop the game from repositioning the windows (LOTRO for example constantly wants to center the window, and EQ1 maximizes the window for no apparent reason when you leave the character select screen to go to server select), and solves lots of other problems posed by various games

    The reason you can't find this in other software is because of fundamental differences in their design. My company has been doing this sort of thing since 2004. EQ1 players will probably remember how EQWindows (which is not mine, but I used it all the time myself) went out of maintenance and that's when I created WinEQ, which featured Picture-in-Picture, instant window swapping, and virtual files (it did not offer any broadcast features).

    A few notable things about the ISBoxer configuration interface (but are not as exclusive as the ones above):

    • The Quick Setup Wizard can generate a fully working setup for you very quickly, with almost no thinking involved on your part. It will even auto-assist when you push action bar hotkeys (1 through = by default) without you making any changes
    • Window layouts (similar to KC's maximizer functionality) define how you want your windows layed out -- surprise! Okay that's not the notable part. Window layouts can be generated for you, with a preview pane to show you how it'll appear, and/or you can click+drag to create whatever style you like.
    • You can set up as many teams as you want in the same ISBoxer configuration file. I have probably 15 different teams and I reuse window layouts, various key mappings, etc between them.
    • ISBoxer can dynamically generate WoW macros, which would be installed and bound to hotkeys in game by the ISBoxer Addon. This allows for some advanced features for those who want it, and includes what is known as a "preprocessor" -- which means that you can put in variables like {CHARACTER} and when it spits out the actual macro, that will be replaced with the current character's name. e.g. if you made a macro "/say {CHARACTER}" in ISBoxer, and had each character press the key to activate the macro, each one will /say his own name.

    The company is also my full-time job, which means I am personally available for assistance most of the time, and I am known to fix bugs for you while you wait (depending on the issue). It also means that I am constantly working on improvements, like working on supporting additional games (Aion) and I have been working for a while on the next generation of multiboxing software (which should be even more exciting)

    With that said, each multiboxing solution has its own strengths and weaknesses.

    I started on HKN, switched to Keyclone because HKN kept changing on me, but now am considering switching to a FTL setup, and using IS Boxer, but I want to make sure I explore all options first. My biggest concern is re-configuring all my action bars, macros, etc. Looks like with IS Boxer FTL system, i just put the vanilla spells in the regular action bar slots, no macros in game.
    Right, the benefit with ISBoxer's FTL system is you don't need to make any changes at all to your action bars, from playing the character solo. You don't need to make any macros or anything, unless you want to. The mages in the related video were just using spells on the bar, and the default generated configuration, I made zero macros in-game. (But if I wanted to, I could have made macros in-game to do /castsequence, etc)
    Lax
    Author of ISBoxer
    Video: ISBoxer Quick Start

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post

    • Virtual Files, which allow you to have ONE folder for performance reasons, while maintaining separate configuration files per character or per account (the Quick Setup Wizard and the Virtual File Wizard both set them up for you per character)
    It's a nice feature, but is it significantly different from the functionality you get from simple directory junctions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post

    • Instant window swapping. Other products claim "almost instant" or "practically instant" etc. It's not the same thing. People coming to ISBoxer from other software will tell you the difference is night and day, and will say things like "it changed the way I play, because I now switch all the time instead of avoiding it like the plague because it could get me killed while I wait up to 7 seconds for it to switch". It's instant regardless of the framerate of the game, so even in Dalaran you're going to get an instant switch, and even on a slow PC it's still instant. (Note that some people prefer to disable window swapping or prevent it from happening most of the time, e.g. to click on a background window to cast a spell instead of switching to it, which is fine too)
    That does sound good, but one thing that worries my though. What is the performance difference between a full-size window resized to for instance 800*600 and one where the window is configured to run at 800*600 in WoW? Also, my main windows is 1920 * 1200, so if I set up my user interface to look decent in that resolution, scaling it down to 800*600 (or something similarly small) will make it too small to actually see what is on the screen


    • The Quick Setup Wizard can generate a fully working setup for you very quickly, with almost no thinking involved on your part. It will even auto-assist when you push action bar hotkeys (1 through = by default) without you making any changes
    As for the user friendlyness, I bought a trial subscription yesterday and I find it pretty confusing. There are no standard buttons in the program - it looks nothing like standard windows/mac windows, which makes it a lot less intuitive. The setup is confusing and while the wizard will get you running fast, in order to utilize 100% of the programs potential, you have to spend just as much time learning to use it as I did in my time with HKN. In comparison, HKN is kind of hard to setup if you're not into programming - but once it's learned it's actually easier to use that most other programmes which require you to browse about for functionality in windows menus with poor or no documentation.

    I like the "fake" mouse pointers and the easier macro management, but I find ISBoxer / IS to be a bit user un-friendly and cluttered and not very intuitive compared to keyclone/HKN (I haven't tried GCP for more than 15 mins so I can't comment on that).
    Classic - Pyrewood Village, Horde, EU

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=Fuzzyboy;231569]It's a nice feature, but is it significantly different from the functionality you get from simple directory junctions?



    From what I've read, once the junction points or symlinks are set up, there's functionally little or no difference in actual play.
    However, there is physically only one directory on your system, so it takes up marginally little less space on the drive.
    The main benefit would be patch day - just patch the one wow without breaking links, patching, re-establishing links, copying wow.exe files and then going.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    It's a nice feature, but is it significantly different from the functionality you get from simple directory junctions?
    I wouldn't say that junctions are "simple", and it is different in that it is dynamic and doesn't require additional folders. If you wanted a different configuration per Character and you have dozens of characters, you would have to make dozens of folders to use the junctions method. With virtual files, there's just another file in the original folder.

    That does sound good, but one thing that worries my though. What is the performance difference between a full-size window resized to for instance 800*600 and one where the window is configured to run at 800*600 in WoW? Also, my main windows is 1920 * 1200, so if I set up my user interface to look decent in that resolution, scaling it down to 800*600 (or something similarly small) will make it too small to actually see what is on the screen
    They run at the full resolution, so if you're running 1920x1200 main window and you have 4 800*600 smaller windows with Swap enabled, they're all going to run at 1920x1200. It's impossible to get the desired Swap speed without it. The effects can be mitigated by running at performance settings in game, and pointing the camera angle downward on your "other" characters (which subsequently also makes casting targeted AoE spells, among other things, much more convenient as well). I find that I don't need to see anything in my other windows most of the time anyway.

    As for the user friendlyness, I bought a trial subscription yesterday and I find it pretty confusing. There are no standard buttons in the program - it looks nothing like standard windows/mac windows, which makes it a lot less intuitive. The setup is confusing and while the wizard will get you running fast, in order to utilize 100% of the programs potential, you have to spend just as much time learning to use it as I did in my time with HKN. In comparison, HKN is kind of hard to setup if you're not into programming - but once it's learned it's actually easier to use that most other programmes which require you to browse about for functionality in windows menus with poor or no documentation.
    Yeah, I'm not going to claim that the ISBoxer configuration interface is pretty, but it is pretty damn functional. I agree that it could have a better appearance, and the next generation software (in development) will be much better in this aspect.

    The configuration is only as confusing as you want to make it -- for someone with complex ideas it will take more work. I can only imagine that your issues stem from liking your configuration a very specific way, and trying to immediately duplicate it in ISBoxer has a learning curve (which is one reason why a couple dozen people hang out in the ISBoxer chat room to share their ideas and help newcomers). Not everyone is the same, in fact most people have no idea how they want it set up, and are quite happy that the Quick Setup Wizard can get them up and running in a couple minutes, and then they can make tweaks later when they think of something else they want it to do.
    Lax
    Author of ISBoxer
    Video: ISBoxer Quick Start

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    The configuration is only as confusing as you want to make it -- for someone with complex ideas it will take more work. I can only imagine that your issues stem from liking your configuration a very specific way, and trying to immediately duplicate it in ISBoxer has a learning curve (which is one reason why a couple dozen people hang out in the ISBoxer chat room to share their ideas and help newcomers). Not everyone is the same, in fact most people have no idea how they want it set up, and are quite happy that the Quick Setup Wizard can get them up and running in a couple minutes, and then they can make tweaks later when they think of something else they want it to do.
    lol amen to this, I have a "setup" that for some reason I cant function if not like it is now. Trying to replicate it in innerspace is very hard and difficult for me.
    Orbzz, Orbzm, Orbzem,Iceorbs SHM - Lvl 80 Hyjal PvE
    Örbz, Örbs, Õrbz & Õrbs 80 Ret Paladin Team Hyjal

    Shaman FTL Setup -
    http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=23141

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    It's a nice feature, but is it significantly different from the functionality you get from simple directory junctions?
    Once configured it's 100% invisible. You can move your config from machine to machine without problems, doesn't require OS knowledge, etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    That does sound good, but one thing that worries my though. What is the performance difference between a full-size window resized to for instance 800*600 and one where the window is configured to run at 800*600 in WoW? Also, my main windows is 1920 * 1200, so if I set up my user interface to look decent in that resolution, scaling it down to 800*600 (or something similarly small) will make it too small to actually see what is on the screen
    There is a small performance h it to running all windows @ 1920x1200, but really if your machines running smoothly it's not likely to be a big difference. UI is totally irrelevant, the other windows swap so fast you'll give up trying to do anything on them since you can just make them full sized, and then do what you want and back...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    As for the user friendlyness, I bought a trial subscription yesterday and I find it pretty confusing. There are no standard buttons in the program - it looks nothing like standard windows/mac windows, which makes it a lot less intuitive. The setup is confusing and while the wizard will get you running fast, in order to utilize 100% of the programs potential, you have to spend just as much time learning to use it as I did in my time with HKN. In comparison, HKN is kind of hard to setup if you're not into programming - but once it's learned it's actually easier to use that most other programmes which require you to browse about for functionality in windows menus with poor or no documentation.
    Um, menus are standard on all GUi based OS's... Wizards menu, quick setup... 40 seconds later you can log in and kill shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    I like the "fake" mouse pointers and the easier macro management, but I find ISBoxer / IS to be a bit user un-friendly and cluttered and not very intuitive compared to keyclone/HKN (I haven't tried GCP for more than 15 mins so I can't comment on that).
    Because setting up FTL in KeyClone is so transparent... and I don't believe you are calling a SCRIPTING LANGUAGE more intuitive than ANY GUI.

    Wow.
    [> Sam I Am (80) <] [> Team Doublemint <][> Hexed (60) (retired) <]
    [> Innerspace & ISBoxer Toolkit <][> Boxing on Blackhand, Horde <]
    "Innerspace basically reinvented the software boxing world. If I was to do it over again, I'd probably go single PC + Innerspace/ISBoxer." - Fursphere

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanthor View Post
    Um, menus are standard on all GUi based OS's... Wizards menu, quick setup... 40 seconds later you can log in and kill shit
    What are you talking about? Are you claiming that it's impossible to make a custom GUI on a GUI based OS? In that case I think you need to read up on your programming skills :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by zanthor View Post
    Because setting up FTL in KeyClone is so transparent... and I don't believe you are calling a SCRIPTING LANGUAGE more intuitive than ANY GUI.
    Where did I write anything about FTL and Keyclone? And where did I say that a scripting language is intuitive? My point was simply that to set up HKN (which I assume is the scripting based program you're talking about), there's a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you wan't to use the program to it's full extent. With ISBoxer + toolkit it's easy to get up and running but if you want to do the advanced stuff, there seems to be as much of a learning curve as HKN - which is partially due to the interface.

    I'm not bashing ISBoxer here, so don't take it too personal - I think $10 is a fair price for three months, but as far as I can tell, HKN just works better for me :-)
    Classic - Pyrewood Village, Horde, EU

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy View Post
    And where did I say that a scripting language is intuitive? My point was simply that to set up HKN (which I assume is the scripting based program you're talking about), there's a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you wan't to use the program to it's full extent. With ISBoxer + toolkit it's easy to get up and running but if you want to do the advanced stuff, there seems to be as much of a learning curve as HKN - which is partially due to the interface.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy
    I find ISBoxer / IS to be a bit user un-friendly and cluttered and not very intuitive compared to keyclone/HKN
    Right there... HKN is a scripting language, and right there you said it's more intuitive than ISBoxer's GUI...
    [> Sam I Am (80) <] [> Team Doublemint <][> Hexed (60) (retired) <]
    [> Innerspace & ISBoxer Toolkit <][> Boxing on Blackhand, Horde <]
    "Innerspace basically reinvented the software boxing world. If I was to do it over again, I'd probably go single PC + Innerspace/ISBoxer." - Fursphere

  9. #9

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    Where did I write anything about FTL and Keyclone? And where did I say that a scripting language is intuitive? My point was simply that to set up HKN (which I assume is the scripting based program you're talking about), there's a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you wan't to use the program to it's full extent. With ISBoxer + toolkit it's easy to get up and running but if you want to do the advanced stuff, there seems to be as much of a learning curve as HKN - which is partially due to the interface.
    I find ISBoxer / IS to be a bit user un-friendly and cluttered and not very intuitive compared to keyclone/HKN
    Quote Originally Posted by zanthor View Post
    Right there... HKN is a scripting language, and right there you said it's more intuitive than ISBoxer's GUI...
    You're playing the too-literal game, but if you insist: The fact that A > B only says something about the relative sizes of A and B - and nothing about their absolute values. Or: The fact that I find HKN more intuitive than ISBoxer does not imply that either are overly intuitive - simply that one is more intuitive than the other. And yes, I find a scripting language more intuitive than ISBoxer, _when it comes to the advanced features_.
    Classic - Pyrewood Village, Horde, EU

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