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I have boxed for 11 years of the 13 I have played WoW. I play 3 and enjoy visions, islands and mog hunting.
I have never been worried about multiboxing until now.. so many complaints about multiboxing gatherers - there seems to be a real push to ban boxing now as well as the bot situation getting really out of hand on retail.
I can't shake off the feeling that something is going to change soon - I hope I am wrong.
What do you think?
Gathering will likely change soon, not because of multiboxers, but because of botting multiboxers.
4x2 will likely get nerfed somehow.
Hivemind will likely get targeted soon as well, and be removed from pvp instances. They dont want us causing any drama in pvp, even if it's bullshit. Dying in pvp is pretty emotional experience for some, feeling inadequate and all, poor fellas. Have to blame their failures and sux on something.
If you can still enjoy the game after losing those, than have no worries since nothing else is ever whined and cried about and blizzard wont feel any pressure or reason to change it. If they ever did, there are actually a few other games out there that are pretty good atm.
Could you mention some? After some toxic videos about multiboxing in WoW from big streamers, I was trying to find not dead game online-wise to be able to feel urself as a part of something, where multiboxing is allowed and multiboxing community not dead aswell. I didn't find a single game actually, where are all that three points takes a place. Would be nice if you could maybe mention some, if possible with few words about and why do you think so, because I'm trying to find some replacement to WoW. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleflavor
Lot of people just lack knowledge: they seem to believe that random multiboxer = must also be a botter. 9/10 times its a lost cause to try explain it to them, so thats why ive stopped talking to strangers altogether. Many years ago. Blizzard know who i am. They will "bot check" me whenever they want / based on if people rapport me. So the system works.
Haters gonna hate...
Im not obligated to reply to rude people. Rude people = instant ignore from me.
If anyone asks nicely what i do and/or tell that they are gonna rapport me, i link: https://isboxer.com/multiboxing/is-isboxer-allowed and then carry on with my life. If someone is nice, i might show off some formations, toys, fireworks etcetc.
If I go to Naz on my old realm the amount of 10x Druids I see swooping down and taking everything is crazy - why wouldn't people want them gone?
I myself have gone to a low pop server and am finding it way easier to make gold from the AH than my old high pop realm.
Eh, I think there isn't any difference, we just notice it more because we're on the receiving end of it. I haven't noticed a bit of difference lately. Same number of people saying the same things for the last 14 years. The only real difference now is that it's so much easier to get into multiboxing and be pretty good at it due to the evolution of tools like ISBoxer. Otherwise, business as usual. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreauk
The biggest gripe is Herb/Mining. The newest resource was not added/changed for the latest patch 8.3 locations. There is a very low amount of players in Nazjatar, extremely low. The majority are there for gathering herbs. It just compounds on itself. If they added zin to Uldum or Valley, the amount of complaints would go way down.
This specific issue will disappear in Shadowlands, unless the same scenario happens again.
The 4x2 farming really doesn't affect/hurt anyone, for some it's just unpleasant to look at.
The PvP no follow rule has always been under the guise of stopping botters, in BG's it's still a fair fight because the numbers are even. And when you play amazing, have a huge chunk of HK's and are playing the map effectively, you still don't win as I show in a couple of videos.
We are at pretty much a disadvantage at every corner and the majority of us have good intentions and play by the rules. Every bucket has a few bad apples and it's an easy target.
Honestly as soon as Shadowlands comes out - this will wash away.
You definitetly dont want to prevent other players the ability to complete their quests / get the required mob kills they need to complete their quests. Thats why i never farmed a area that had mobs other players absolutely needed. Atleast always leave a / some mobs other players can tag, so they can carry on with their lifes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
My opinion is that the biggest problem we're facing right now is botting and associated gold selling (although the gold selling may be specific to classic). And I'd argue that streaming is the 2nd problem - anytime you're intentionally (or unintentionally) concentrating hundreds of people into one area it causes too much disruption to others, but that's another argument for another day.
While I don't think that most multiboxers are botting, it does seem like almost all botters are also multiboxing (at least in classic). Personally the latest round of bans or instance caps don't seem to have actually caught any of the botters on my server. The same people are still in the same dungeons 24x7.
In addition to the folks who are just purely running teams of bots 24x7, there seems to be a lot of more casual botting going on - cases where the person is generally fully in control most of the time, but does use some automation some of the time. I think its just too easy to cross the line now, and the risk of being caught seems so low. I've had to argue with people in my own guild about the definition of botting. (e.g. I click this button and it runs a small script recorded on my programable keyboard that makes everyone mine/herb, then remount and follow again, or I use this button to "turn on" my dps cycle which is then executed automatically until I hit the button again to "turn off" my dps cycle, not to mention all the fishing bots.)
Not that any of this is new, but it seems to be getting worse recently. In classic right now the barrier to entry is so low - with no game to purchase up front, you just need $15 to get started. Retail isn't much different - its just $20 to upgrade a starter account to BfA right now isn't it? So it seems like botters are regularly using throw away accounts - if Blizz is only going to do ban waves every couple of months I guess they figure they'll get their money's worth and then just rinse and repeat once they get caught.
At a technical level, the hardware requirements have certainly gone way down - any semi-recent PC and video card is good enough if you don't really care about performance - its not like someone who sets their account to farm all night cares what level of FPS their getting.
I haven't ever looked at the market place for WoW bots, but as a network penetration tester I can tell you market for any sort of technical hack has only gotten cheaper and more widespread, less technical/more user friendly. You don't have to have any technical knowledge at all and you can buy just about whatever sort of hack or DDOS you want cheaply and easily now. It seems like years ago the people botting were either mostly programming it themselves or maybe trying to purchase something from some really fishy warez sites where your odds of getting scammed were quite high. Now there's professional looking websites that brag about their customer service. My guess is that the people making the money botting aren't even the people doing the actual botting in game - its the people selling the bots and the gold.
Personally it seems like even some of the legitimate systems and tools we have available to us as multiboxers are too much. The 4x2 farming thing just seems like bad game design. I get that Blizz wanted to allow multiple people to tap a node to reduce the frustration of getting beat to the node. But getting 8 herbs at a time feels even more broken. Blizz seems to be doing only minimal work to fix all the stand-still farming spots - that's equally bad design whether they're getting farmed solo, by bots or legitimate multiboxers (not even counting the AFK-multiboxers who I think fall somewhere between legitimate and a bot). I kinda wish Blizz would break even some simple stuff like having all toons take the same flight point and sharing quest turn in (I know that's allowed in the Blizz API - I'm suggesting they change the API).
I guess I share some sentiment with the original poster that public opinion seems to have changed and I could even understand if Blizz did some sort of knee jerk reaction and did something game changing like breaking /follow.
I think the main reason it seems like more people are bothered by us now is because there are more people playing during the pandemic.
Honestly, I don't really see the fuss about gathering and farming. Sure, we can hit more nodes or whatever, but I'd say the AH barons on a server do more damage to markets than the small number of multiboxers.
I wasn't going to post this here because I know these posts have been frowned upon lately.. but I just got a 6 month ban.. my accounts had been active 10 years with no issues.. I was stand still farming in Voldun.. no automation... I was present at the keyboard... I was only there about an hour, but there was a horde World Quest near by and there was a lot of Horde in the area.. I am sure some probably reported me.. I appealed and and they denied the appeal.. like I said I have never had an issue in 10 years before.. I think Blizzard has reached a tipping a point with boxers.. we use to pretty rare and pretty much harmless.. it's getting so popular now I think Blizz has decided to take action.. There's another boxer on the WoW Econ reddit who posted a similar story today..
I dunno, i see a group of 10 bots swoop down 1 by 1 in Naz on a single node, and it's obvious they are not just multiboxing, they are botting. It's depressing. It literally looks like Starlink. It's not like before. Jak is right, not all multiboxers are botting, but all bots are multiboxing. And it's likely gonna hit us the same way pvp /follow hit us with collateral damage.
The main issues are farming resources, 4x2 farm groups, and instance bots. Blizzard is focusing on stopping instance bots atm(it's been thrust into the public by streamers recently and they had to act). Next will likely be resources, I think most people are wanting single tap nodes just to spite multiboxing, which is fine by me it wont change anything really. As for 4x2 farming, i would venture when they come up with something viable since the only obvious options effect everyone. Likely they'll go the route of the lesser evil and block multiple bnet accounts from participating, but im just speculating. 4x2 farming is the least likely to be changed anytime soon.
They just cleared out 74,000 botters in Classic wow, im guessing almost all instance botters. So the question is, where will they go now? It's unlikely those botters will just give up. Will we start seeing massive teams of 4x2 and resource bots? The instance bots were the majority because they tend to be hidden from the community. So yes, there is a lot of uncertainty atm for multiboxing suffering from collateral damage. Right now if those 3 issues dont effect you much, you should be okay.
I really wish they'd defer from changing the quality of the game to counter botting and instead hunt down and perma ban botters. They seem to want to automate everything and as long as they are the top mmo that wont change.
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Originally Posted by Truelle
If they reached a tipping point with boxers they would convey that to us and it's super extremely nearly impossible highly unlikely that anyone would be banned before they put the message out. They just dont work that way. They are not going to decide they want to change a rule that is over a decade old and start banning people before even letting them know they changed the rule.
Something else other than multiboxing caused the suspension. This is why they dont want these posts made in this forum, because nobody but you really knows what happened. And it's never because of multiboxing. It's always something else.
Well the one thing that me and the other guy that posted on the reddit forum today that was similar is we were both doing stand still farms that had hyperspawns.. so I guess Blizzard considers that a bannable offernse now... I can actually understand that... it is taking advantage of game mechanics.. but it's also no different than the LFG groups doing 2x4 farms..
i would go to the official forums and ask customer support for help if you werent given any clear reason. They are pretty good at taking a quick look into your account and clearing things up. 4x2 is done by groups all day every day, it's not against the rules even if they dont want it happening they havent stated it's against the rules. They would post something about it if they were going to ban anyone for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truelle
were you not given a reason in your suspension or appeal? Even so, most bans arent for what you were doing when you got banned. Usually a long process from something that triggered it long ago.
Honestly hope you're innocent and it's a false flag. You're a veteran boxer and not some fresh account under ten posts, so i'm leaning towards false flag, but if you appealed and they looked at it and still said nope, that's a big yikes. Try the customer support forums, they really do help in my experiences.
Here's the notice I got when they suspended my account... I already rolled up 8 new accounts and just won't be doing any stand still hyper farms anymore..
https://www.dual-boxing.com/attachme...tid=2376&stc=1
Listen.. I stand nothing to gain by posting about my ban here.. I would think some other people may find the information useful to prevent them from getting banned for doing something that most people don't currently think is a bannable offense... I know I would have found it useful...
https://media.giphy.com/media/26FLgG...GAbm/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
I really don't think it's fair. A 10 boxer can empty every node they come across - I really don't blame other players for getting annoyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kate
I just rerolled on a lower pop realm because my old realm was swarming with 10 box Druids. I can make more gold on my new server because prices haven't been driven into the dirt.
Boxing should never impact on others in a negative way IMHO.
My bet is you were banned for zone disruption. If you farm world quest mobs that others need you risk a ban. A gm told me this once when I was asking about standstill farming for mounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truelle
Were you farming the Sethrak for the azerite world quest for Champions of Azeroth?
https://www.dual-boxing.com/attachme...tid=2378&stc=1
I do wish Blizz had more specificity in some of their rules (and how they vary between PvE and PvP servers). The words "zone disruption" and/or "griefing" aren't actually in any of ToS/EULA or Code of Conduct, but everyone will quote them like they were. (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/...l=1#post430209)
Similarly the line between "exploiting game mechanics" vs "Clever use of game mechanics" seems to be pretty fluid and in the eye of the beholder although 1 of those 2 will get you banned. There's some Blizzard posts talking about intent and repeatability, https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ages/301488/81, but I still find it unbelievable that walking an opposing faction priest into the opponent's capital city to MC a mob that their own citizens then kill in order to get more world buffs falls under "cleaver use" and not "exploit". But at least Blizz did finally make a post that was OK. Stand-still farming seems to go the other way and be considered an exploit, but I haven't actually seen that in a blue post anywhere. Although I'm glad this forum took a stand against it.
I'd love to tell people that they should just always avoid anything that's even remotely close to being considered a game exploit, but it seems like most of the "1-pull" meta in Classic right now evolves around stuff that someone could seriously consider an exploit. I had 1 guy spend at least 30min spamming /LFG that he reported me for mining a node that was ~20 yards away from him while he was fighting a mob. I wasn't even multiboxing at the time.
My server discord (US PvE server) has been having a great debate how how much interruption is allowed when we're all fighting over mob tags for world bosses. Apparently a whole bunch of people received short bans for pulling extra mobs onto the raid that had the boss - I would have said that was perfectly OK (PvE problem with a PvE solution and all that). Our own discord is still trying to sort out if they received bans just because so many people reported them and it was an automated response or if its actually against ToS.
If everybody could stop doing scummy things and then blame it on multiboxing, that would be nice.
If you consider stand still farming "while at your computer" (but really watching netflix with the game to the side or any other variation of this) not scummy, then fuck right off out of multiboxing please.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
Why the hell would they ever do that. It would mean pricks would just sidestep every rule they laid out and then claim that they did nothing wrong.
Zone Disruption is totally in the eyes of the beholder because their eyes are looking at the shit that you're doing and telling to to move the fuck along. Nobody is getting suspended while offline for ZD unless there is good reason, and proof.
I don't know if "fairness" is really the issue in a game where 1 person with TSM and bank alts can completely dominate large parts of the AH and cause more problems for more people than 10 druids draining nodes. AH Barons are FAR more widespread (every server has a bunch of them!) than multiboxers - the problem is the way the games economy is set up and the fact that middlemen are able to insert themselves and drive up prices for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreauk
I agree that boxers should seek to have the least negative impact on others that they can, because I'm not a jerk, but again - I don't think it really matters, in comparison to AH barons, if some people farm as a wildly inefficient way to make gold.
Ha, no. They're vague because people are really good at coming up with ways to cheat. Gamers are like children trying to test the limits with with rules lawyering equivalent to "I'm not touching you!" and it wouldn't matter how specific Blizzard gets.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
I've boxed for an embarrassingly long time, across multiple games, and with varying degrees of disruption to other players, and I've literally never once been banned for anything remotely related to multiboxing (I *did* get a forced name change and an 8 hour ban for using an auto-generated name that turned out to be an obfuscated slur though, which was funny). To me, that means that the people getting banned, or reaaaaaallly needing clarification of the rules because they're worried about violating them, know damn well they're walking on the edge and are looking for cover.
Fair points - I'll restate. I wish Blizz would more quickly clarify specific interpretations or applications of their rules when they make them. I'm fine with the rule being being necessarily broad.
It took weeks for Blizz to clarify that killing off the world buff NPCs by using a priest from the other faction to MC them didn't count as either an exploit or as unallowed cross-faction collaboration (which is apparently only applicable to win trading). Until they made that post there were significant parts of the population calling for those doing it to be banned.
I still don't know Blizz's actual position on stand-still farming. They seem to do a semi-decent job fixing any locations where people figure out a spot to do it, but I think a blue post saying don't do it - we consider that against ToS would go a long way.
Also see my above post about squabbling over world bosses. There were a number of people who received a 24-hour ban, and its not clear why. Some said they got theirs overturned, some did not - but its unclear if that's because the initial ban was a mistake, or something else. At this point its a few weeks past so it's already OBE, but still puzzling.
Just recently got into multi boxing, but I decided against using any outside software. Its just not worth the risk to me. Right now I just alt tab, which is annoying, but works. I'd love to just control my 2nd character from one screen. But at the end of the day, I only multi box to cut down on my time doing dailies. So my tabd character is pretty much a trailer.
I know its wishful thinking, but I wish blizz would just work with these companies who make the software. It would increase costs. But lets be honest, whos trying to save money here with 10+accts
People are not getting suspended/banned for stand still farming, Ridosaw is the most obvious example of someone on a massive scale publically doing it and not running into any bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
People are getting suspended/banned for pushing those limits like Kate mentioned.
And all this talk is, is scaremonging for new comers to the game/multiboxing. The post above is case in point.
Sorry but to me this seems like a contradiction. What "limits" should we not be pushing? Are you talking limits in stand still farming, no farming certain spots, not farming for a certain amount of time, not farming if there is a WQ active, what is it? What does "dont be an a-hole" mean? I know there are youtubers and streamers that show off these stand still farms for primals, volatiles, xmog, mounts, so to me if people are quietly getting banned it's even worse letting big names do it on stream but then quietly banning a "nobody" for doing the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberie
If they banned a streamer/youtuber for afk farming it would spark a huge debate on the forums about what is different between multiboxing vs. 2x4 farming, suddenly non-multiboxers playstyles would be threatened as well, it would be a massive, massive mess for Blizzard. So the fact that certain streamers merely exist is NOT evidence that this playstyle is accepted by Blizzard.<br><br>If there are certain laws or absolutes we're not allowed to break, I sure wish I knew them. For example I like farming pets and transmog, am I breaking some imaginary rule? I really, really don't know, that is what people are upset about. And when reports trickle in that someone got banned, for me at least, its even worse. What if 20 people were banned for the same thing on the same day? You would never know, would you?
And if that's the reality that we live in, where it's possible to be banned for rules we're not allowed to know, then new people should know that too. Because it's innocent enough to watch someone on youtube show you how to park toons and farm transmog/primals fast, but nobody would do that if they knew they could get banned for it
To be honest, if 20 people rushed to the forums claiming they were banned for a certain reason *cough HKN a few weeks ago* then it would be an early warning to others who maybe hadn't logged on that day, that, for some unknown reason, MANY veteran accounts are reporting bans on the same day for ______ reason. I'm sure one could draw some parallels from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
The same could be said now or in the future for afk farms. It's gotta be a matter of when, not if, that they just keep banning people 1 by 1 for overfarming an area. What prompts it, is it 10 randoms reporting them, is it a GM spying, is it just bad luck on a bad day?
Sorry if this came out aggressive, I do understand why you keep things a certain way. I do feel "Uncertain" on the rules of the game though and I had to get it out there. For now with this uncertainty, I try to "play the game" as good a boxer as I can - world quests for emissaries, gathering, playing the AH. No more stand still farms because I simply don't know.
If you're actively playing your characters, like literally looking at them, you're not getting suspended for this shit. youtubers/streamers are not getting suspended live because they are doing just that, playing the game. A shit way the play the game but still playing the game none the less.
There are "laws". Don't bot.
How many people slowly graduate from carple tunnel smaking the keyboard to a hold macro on their mouse to a full on toggle macro to his their favourite one button keybind to then putting their netflix above wow?
As for the HKN thing, the reason you don't hear about them anymore is because that got overturned as a mistake. . . Sure there was outrage at the start but I know loads that had their ban overturned. Some without even making an appeal.
Again, they don't suspend/ban people for stand still farms, they nerf the locations down into the ground most of the time to make them worthless. GM spy on you all the time, if you've managed to piss enough people off to get you reported. At which point you're put under a microscope pretty much.
So unless you're doing bad shit, you've nothing to worry about. I've played the game since 2007 and have never felt in any danger at all with how I play it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerruption
That's the problem when the face of WoW content that has 40K average livestream viewers started this notion that when he checks the area or dungeon through /who. Any high level characters who don't have a guild are automatically botters especially if the names are similar. Which is a problem in our end since we can't invite and create guilds due to Bnet account limitations. Plus we don't really care if our other toons don't have a guild and only our main has it. Imagine hundreds of his minions reporting you.
Check 10:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1pQd7YNHLc
it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if all 40k reported you, if you're just playing the game, you've nothing to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diwa
What limitations? Why cant we invite and greate guilds? All of my characters are in my own guild.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diwa
Omg, if you forbid talking about bans in one way, please forbid talking in other ways too, because it is just disinformation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberie
Back in the days in 2013 or whenever you were multiboxing it could be true, but now it is not, look around and see how many people are whining about multiboxing here and there and how many streamers did extremely toxic videos about it. There are a lot of false-positive bans because of it, and not all of them got overturned, I'm actually not sure if most of them got overturned.
I don't know how you can't see it, mb you are playing like 1-10 hours a week or something, or not playing at all, maybe not playing Classic (I don't know much about current state of actual, was playing/boxing it in Legion last time).
When your own users with registration more than 12 years ago are saying they were banned and were not overturned, you are just calling them liars and banning on the forum, instead of let them talk at least in separate thread and cooperate against this unfair shit.
I can understand, you scared, if we cooperate against blizzard, they might make multiboxing against rules, so you want to stay as quite as possible and keep making money from ISBoxer as long as you can, because WoW is actually last (or one of the last games) where multiboxing is not dead.
It is your choice, but at least forbid this guy I quoted from posting his disinformation too, because he (or she idk) is wrong and have no idea what he is talking about, making conclusions on his own experience is nothing but funny.
Good lord find something real to freak out about rather than imagining you’re being oppressed and in danger of mob action for being a multiboxer.
It’s multiboxing of a video game. It’s supposed to be fun (and occasionally frustrating). Chill the hell out, walk away from the computer for a bit, and quit borrowing trouble.
Reports by players can get you looked at, they do not get your suspended automatically. If you get looked at and you're doing bad shit, you risk getting fucked by a gm.
Your own actions get you auto-suspended - hopefully as a false positive. Who here things it's normal to farm 10 mobs for 12+ hrs straight?
I play 4 to 9 hours a night, 3 to 7 nights a week. I've done this for the past 12 yrs.
I do not believe anyone that comes on a forum to champion their innocence since a forum has not effect at all to the outcome.
It is also a completely one side conversation with no proof. I'm not calling them a liar, I simple refuse to believe them.
Way too many people come on here and discord and say they did nothing later to be caught out on their story.
There has even been a few "higher" (in the sense of the MB community) profile streamers that got suspended while they were off stream and again, caught out in their stories. "i was only using a keyboard macro to keep me moving while i got something to eat". ... ... .. for what, you were getting food for 10 hrs?
There are 2 things that happen. You either are botting or you're doing something that is so akin to it, that you get profiled as one.
All my evidence is anecdotal, but it seems to be right now (at least in classic) that if enough people report you, you get a temp ban - at least until a GM looks at it and realizes there's nothing there, then it gets reversed. It's become almost its own meme in PvP (or PvE world boss fights) on my own server to just get 100's of people to report someone.
The standard practice is also to /who every high level dungeon and to report every player without a guild for botting - especially groups of druids/warriors + 3 Mages + priest.
It seems as though Blizz's response to the botting is so bad, that many players feel they need to help. I'm not saying they're being effective at all, or that being guildless is any indication of botting, just that's what's going on. I completely agree that none of this actually helpful - likely just generating lots of false positives for Blizz to sort through.
Personally, I've never had any sort of ban, and I've never even been "bot checked" by a GM to the best of my knowledge. But I share the original poster's sense of uncertainty. There's just a lot of anti-multiboxer sentiment right now, much of it confused with anti-botting sentiment. I actually moved all my chars into one of the bigger name guilds just to avoid some harassment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHBwgFIl_Jc