WPvP 10man alliance group -> horde dominated server

Hi,
do you have any tips/ideas for a good 10man alliance group for world pvp?


Nearly every PvP-server in EU is horde dominated. That means it could be great fun to have a viable 10man alliance PvP group an such a server.

My tactic will be to kill smaller groups (up to 5) and then change the location. Otherwise I will be outnumbered in a few minutes (call for help in chat).
I thought about a team of 2 pally healer and 8 warlocks. 8 doting warlocks should kill things very fast and the survivability of warlocks(soullink) and pallys is great.I also considered 10 dwarf rogues but they are squishy as hell and one well-geared warrior will have the potential to wreck my whole team.

My biggest concerns with alliance fraction are:
- very fast outnumbered by horde
- shamans can do serious aoe-damage to a multibox-team if you compare it, paladins on alliance are a joke...
- ud fear-racial
- ud fear-racial
- ud fear-racial

Do you think it will be fun or a pain in the a.... to have a 10man alliance group on an horde dominated pvp server?
Remark: I will mostly level all chars by dungeon grinding so being ganked while questing will not be a big issue.

Thanks

Or just go with us on Zandalar Tribe EU, we are a guild of boxer on Horde side and the server is alliance dominated (not so heavy, like 60/40).
We need people to secure raids :)

That's what my ultimate goal is, I already have 10 accounts but realized too late it is a pain to level them.. Getting only 18 exp per kill in dungeons..
Also we seriously lack an aoe skill like Shamans have.. If you have an idea for quick aoe burst as alliance I'm all ears.

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Originally Posted by Baltyre

Or just go with us on Zandalar Tribe EU, we are a guild of boxer on Horde side and the server is alliance dominated (not so heavy, like 60/40).
We need people to secure raids :)

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I may be interested on that.. What is your ingame name?

Your best option is 5x mages paired with 5x discs or 8x mages paired with 2x disc. I'd consider 5x warrior paired with 5x paladins but warriors got 0 mobility as main problem.

8x mages can devour 50 people in 3 gcd as there is no cap on aoe in classic, it is extremely best setup apart locks tbh in classic only limited by mana. I'd go gnome for 5% more int as well. Can also go for blastwave setup as well. Warlocks are good but can't burst large groups due to no aoe. As lock pally setup on the lv 30+ it's really easy to level due to hellfire setup being non interrupted from pally and lock talents.

Since horde has only 1 dispeller shodun't beissue but do know there is cap of 16 dots in classic and 8 locks can can only do agony plus corruption and your cap is full.

Overall, locks are best for smaller group i think and mages are better for groups of 6+ and above.

Mages with support. No other class has the same capacity for instant area damage when stacked past 5 accounts. Blink in, drop sapper charges and spam arcane explosion and you could kill a raid. I wouldn't play mages in a 5 box personally but once you start stacking them up to 7-8+ you have the damage to kill almost anything in a 1-2 GCD's.

The support is another question. You could go with 2 teams of 1 priest, 4 mages which seems to be having some success in the low-mid level dungeons or you could add a paladin so you have a tank option that can switch to heals for PvP.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Your best option is 5x mages paired with 5x discs or 8x mages paired with 2x disc. I'd consider 5x warrior paired with 5x paladins but warriors got 0 mobility as main problem.

8x mages can devour 50 people in 3 gcd as there is no cap on aoe in classic, it is extremely best setup apart locks tbh in classic only limited by mana. I'd go gnome for 5% more int as well. Can also go for blastwave setup as well. Warlocks are good but can't burst large groups due to no aoe. As lock pally setup on the lv 30+ it's really easy to level due to hellfire setup being non interrupted from pally and lock talents.

Since horde has only 1 dispeller shodun't beissue but do know there is cap of 16 dots in classic and 8 locks can can only do agony plus corruption and your cap is full.

Overall, locks are best for smaller group i think and mages are better for groups of 6+ and above.

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How would you correctly aim all your mages AoE like Blizzard without losing too much time? I'm running 5x mages at the moment and that is a major issue for me, so much that now I just use a macro to cast on self.

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Originally Posted by Hiddenbrom

How would you correctly aim all your mages AoE like Blizzard without losing too much time? I'm running 5x mages at the moment and that is a major issue for me, so much that now I just use a macro to cast on self.

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Don't use blizzard in PvP except maybe rank 1 to try getting a rogue out of stealth.

Just spam arcane explosion or cycle frost nova and then CoC for burst. Arcane explosion is much higher DPS than blizzard, can be cast while moving and can't be interrupted.

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Originally Posted by Hiddenbrom

I may be interested on that.. What is your ingame name?

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Ravno, but i'm not the guild master, it's Stridsberg. We have a discord here : https://discord.gg/VTBSKc
Or you can /who Overkill in game and wisp one of the member of the guild.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Don't use blizzard in PvP except maybe rank 1 to try getting a rogue out of stealth.

Just spam arcane explosion or cycle frost nova and then CoC for burst. Arcane explosion is much higher DPS than blizzard, can be cast while moving and can't be interrupted.

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Apatheist got it right. Additionall, you can go arcane power and PI if you run power infusion and do 50% more dmg on any spell. You can also go blastwave paired with arcane explosion too but Arcane explosion is the best spell in game with stacked mages. I mean, with descentish spell power it can hit for 600,700 per application. Given that most classes have 4k hp (with solid gear) you can kill them in 1 gcd, perhaps 2.

You blink to people arcane explosion>gg. For single targets you can arcane missles, fireblast if they are far away or scorch.

Any tip on how to level up 10 chars at once? I find this almost impossible. Collecting quests are hours long, dungeons exp is really minimal.

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Originally Posted by Hiddenbrom

Any tip on how to level up 10 chars at once? I find this almost impossible. Collecting quests are hours long, dungeons exp is really minimal.

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You are better off leveling 1 team at a time.

If you're going mages setup I'd recommend levelign each team to lv 14 or so and then using dungeons for leveling. When you get blizz, i think you can pull alot of mobs and then just blizzard 4x for pew pew or arcane exlplosion with nova on round robbin.

Classic is pain to level .)

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You are better off leveling 1 team at a time.

If you're going mages setup I'd recommend levelign each team to lv 14 or so and then using dungeons for leveling. When you get blizz, i think you can pull alot of mobs and then just blizzard 4x for pew pew or arcane exlplosion with nova on round robbin.

Classic is pain to level .)

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That's what I tried but without an healer it's not possible I'm afraid. My 5x level 22 mages were getting eaten alive in deadmines.

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Originally Posted by Hiddenbrom

That's what I tried but without an healer it's not possible I'm afraid. My 5x level 22 mages were getting eaten alive in deadmines.

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Which is why everybody is recommending adding a priest. I'd never level a group without at least one healer. Sounds horrible.

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Originally Posted by Hiddenbrom

That's what I tried but without an healer it's not possible I'm afraid. My 5x level 22 mages were getting eaten alive in deadmines.

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You should always level 4x mage 1x disc due to disc providing fortitude, shadow protection, dispells, heals, spirit,, and overall, have holy nova that is insane.

This is specc for priest with mage:

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...-2050413023-05

if you are running 5x mages with 5x discs then this:

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...151-2050511-05

Mages have 2 options in my opinion:

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...031531-055-003

that is with the Power Infusion from priest: (50% dmg means on larghe group of people, things are dead in blink of an eye).

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Your best option is 5x mages paired with 5x discs or 8x mages paired with 2x disc. I'd consider 5x warrior paired with 5x paladins but warriors got 0 mobility as main problem.

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Thank you - I really consider to go with 8 mages and 2 priests now.

Are 8 mages with pre-raid BIS gear still able to do serious damage when a lot of players will have T1,2,3?
The problem on a horde dominated server will be that there will not be a lot of PUG-raids. So it will be difficult to get some raid-gear for the mages.

if you have 250-300 spell power on mages (doable) your arcane explosion will hit for 350 roughly and will crit for 500,500x 8>4k>bis players having 5.5k in p5/6 non buffed.

So you're loooking at 1shot with 1 gcd, nothing will most likely survive 2 gcds. Especially, if your priest have holy nova as well which adds dmg and in ends turns non crit around 2500 so 2 gcd>wipe entire raids pretty much.

Main problem is managing mages but given that you do so much damage nothing will pose a problem apart soul link warlocks and even they will die to extra gcd(3 gcd). If you run arcane power and later on the zandalari trinkets (will take some time to get it, the bonus part on your setup is that you can solo anything given the tank due to ignite stack (8 mages can kill pretty much anything really fast due to pre pull pyroblast>arcane power presence of mind pyroblast/scorch and then fireball spam ), and you got 2 healers for aoe healing your mages and dispell, you got curse insta dispell. So you can literally do any raid given proper setup on your own (you still need 40 people).

Pvp wise, you can run arcane fire and then have ignite lower cd on fireblast, arcane missles for long range targets, instant pyros (2 pyros is enough to kill something, so you run 4x different keybinds for 4 targets to die instantly), you got aoe heaing so that's not probs and you can always run stun for pvp stuns (priest swp, mage stun on fire).

Plenty of opportunities. Given the mages leveling, it should take you 12 days to reach 60 on one team if you play few hours per day. (5-6). Mages leveling is such a joke and at 55 you can just grab both teams and LBRS/UBRS.

Overall, that setup should wreck anything in few seconds: ) Sucks I don't have money to run 10 accounts. GL.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

if you have 250-300 spell power on mages (doable) your arcane explosion will hit for 350 roughly and will crit for 500,500x 8>4k>bis players having 5.5k in p5/6 non buffed.

So you're loooking at 1shot with 1 gcd, nothing will most likely survive 2 gcds. Especially, if your priest have holy nova as well which adds dmg and in ends turns non crit around 2500 so 2 gcd>wipe entire raids pretty much.

Main problem is managing mages but given that you do so much damage nothing will pose a problem apart soul link warlocks and even they will die to extra gcd(3 gcd). If you run arcane power and later on the zandalari trinkets (will take some time to get it, the bonus part on your setup is that you can solo anything given the tank due to ignite stack (8 mages can kill pretty much anything really fast due to pre pull pyroblast>arcane power presence of mind pyroblast/scorch and then fireball spam ), and you got 2 healers for aoe healing your mages and dispell, you got curse insta dispell. So you can literally do any raid given proper setup on your own (you still need 40 people).

Pvp wise, you can run arcane fire and then have ignite lower cd on fireblast, arcane missles for long range targets, instant pyros (2 pyros is enough to kill something, so you run 4x different keybinds for 4 targets to die instantly), you got aoe heaing so that's not probs and you can always run stun for pvp stuns (priest swp, mage stun on fire).

Plenty of opportunities. Given the mages leveling, it should take you 12 days to reach 60 on one team if you play few hours per day. (5-6). Mages leveling is such a joke and at 55 you can just grab both teams and LBRS/UBRS.

Overall, that setup should wreck anything in few seconds: ) Sucks I don't have money to run 10 accounts. GL.

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Thank you again (and the others) - maybe I will give this comb a try.

My last problem is that I don't like the gnome-style too much - but their racials are superior compared to humans ^^

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Originally Posted by Kraxx

Thank you again (and the others) - maybe I will give this comb a try.

My last problem is that I don't like the gnome-style too much - but their racials are superior compared to humans ^^

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You will want dwarf priests too and gnomes/dwarves start in the same location which simplifies things for you.

Personally I like the idea of running around with a midget group. I considered dwarf paladins with gnome warriors but the human weapon skill racial is just too strong to skip on fury warriors.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

You will want dwarf priests too and gnomes/dwarves start in the same location which simplifies things for you.

Personally I like the idea of running around with a midget group. I considered dwarf paladins with gnome warriors but the human weapon skill racial is just too strong to skip on fury warriors.

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Yes dwarf priest is a must for pvp (fear ward).
You're right a midget group sounds like fun and is a really cool setup.

Thank you

I would include Warlock and would think 2 Priest or 1 Priest 1 Paladin for healing with 7 Mages.

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Originally Posted by Kraxx

Hi,
do you have any tips/ideas for a good 10man alliance group for world pvp?


Nearly every PvP-server in EU is horde dominated. That means it could be great fun to have a viable 10man alliance PvP group an such a server.

My tactic will be to kill smaller groups (up to 5) and then change the location. Otherwise I will be outnumbered in a few minutes (call for help in chat).
I thought about a team of 2 pally healer and 8 warlocks. 8 doting warlocks should kill things very fast and the survivability of warlocks(soullink) and pallys is great.I also considered 10 dwarf rogues but they are squishy as hell and one well-geared warrior will have the potential to wreck my whole team.

My biggest concerns with alliance fraction are:
- very fast outnumbered by horde
- shamans can do serious aoe-damage to a multibox-team if you compare it, paladins on alliance are a joke...
- ud fear-racial
- ud fear-racial
- ud fear-racial

Do you think it will be fun or a pain in the a.... to have a 10man alliance group on an horde dominated pvp server?
Remark: I will mostly level all chars by dungeon grinding so being ganked while questing will not be a big issue.

Thanks

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Shadowpriests + healers might be better than locks for this purpose. 8 cycled AOE fears, shields for days etc, plate tier physical mitigation. That is, if you're looking for a dot and sustain group. If you're looking for a kamikazi group, mages.

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Originally Posted by Mercbeast

Shadowpriests + healers might be better than locks for this purpose. 8 cycled AOE fears, shields for days etc, plate tier physical mitigation. That is, if you're looking for a dot and sustain group. If you're looking for a kamikazi group, mages.

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Only problem is, that 2 dispellers effectivly shutdown your entire group damage where as in with mages, nothing can be stopped (especially if UD). Plus in 1 gcd you kill people so there is not much to counter:)

Right, which is why I added for a kamikazi group, mages :)

For a creeping death sustain group, shadowpriests or warlocks will be pretty brutal, and yea, dispellers can shut it down, but any coordinated group is going to shut you down if we're being honest. We're talking primarily about farming disorganized masses with MB world pvp groups.

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Originally Posted by Mercbeast

Right, which is why I added for a kamikazi group, mages :)

For a creeping death sustain group, shadowpriests or warlocks will be pretty brutal, and yea, dispellers can shut it down, but any coordinated group is going to shut you down if we're being honest. We're talking primarily about farming disorganized masses with MB world pvp groups.

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Then shadow priests can actually be nice (due to stun reproccing all the time (10% per swp,8x priest 80% or so on dot tick) ) and if you run specific items you can really really hurt people, plus shadoweaving will be insta 5 stacks (takes several dispells to clean afaik). I'd just add a single lock for cos for extra 10% shadow dmg and focus mainly on mp5 and intellect. But yeah, you can also hurt people as hell, as 8x dots with some solid shadow power can do roughly 2.5 dmg per tick, so 2 ticks, you die.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

due to stun reproccing all the time (10% per swp,8x priest 80% or so on dot tick) )

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Blackout only procs just when shadow spells are cast, not when they deal damage. Mind Flay, Shadow Word Pain, Devouring Plague, it all only procs when it is applied, not during tick.
I remember spamming mind flay when I wanted a stun in vanilla, it was a valid tactic to use up some more mana to get more stuns.

Warlocks are a much better option than shadow priests for boxing for many reasons.

You have to remember that this is basically peak shadowpriest for pvp. Where one SP could hold the generals room in AV against almost any number of people.

Unless I am misremembering the patch, beyond plate level mitigation, pbaoe fear, limited healing while in shadowform, just a couple of spells required to melt faces.

Warlocks are good too, but, they require more static gameplay, as in stopping to cast. Whereas SP's are just run and gun SWP, especially if we're talking about a box setup where 5 SWP will melt people without organized dispelling. The biggest fear SP's have are melee coming in and tearing them up, but then they have pbaoe fears to deal with melee.

You MIGHT get more out of warlocks, but the effort required to leverage more juice out of warlocks would be much higher. Shadowpriests would be easy to use effectively, and would be brutally effective at just putting enormous pressure on people. It's not gonna be mage like, roll in and oh 30 people dropped dead because I caught them off guard, but, in small group stuff where you get the drop, people gonna die fast, and in large zerg back and forth stuff, where a mage kamikazi group is gonna go in, kill a bunch of people and then die, you'd sit comfortably in the zerg, and the pressure you'd put out would have the other group being pushed into Tauren Mill or Southshore consistently just because of your dot spam. Warlocks would do the same, but, because they require more stand and casting, I feel like the SP's just have that enormous mobility edge.

I guess it comes down to, do you like more stand off poke, or do you like mobility? If you wanna sync up 5 shadowbolts and obliterate anyone in a single volley per GCD, warlocks + dot pressure. If you wanna stay on the move constantly, and be basically a mobile fortress with your pbaoe fear, that applies instant and rapid dot pressure? SPs. Or if you wanna just blink in, frost nova, and then kill everyone in range of arcane explosion in 2 GCDs, then mages :)

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Originally Posted by Mercbeast

You have to remember that this is basically peak shadowpriest for pvp.

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True, shadow priests are good duelists but they have less mitigation, less health and fewer defensive cooldowns than warlocks. Warlocks also have either 2 or 3 instant DoT's as well as a instant ranged slow (depending on spec.)

However, aside from all that, the biggest issue with shadow priests is their mana. SW:P costs 500 mana to cast. If you're running around spamming it in a large fight you'll be OOM quickly. Warlocks with a healer support can spam their DoT's all day.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

True, shadow priests are good duelists but they have less mitigation, less health and fewer defensive cooldowns than warlocks. Warlocks also have either 2 or 3 instant DoT's as well as a instant ranged slow (depending on spec.)

However, aside from all that, the biggest issue with shadow priests is their mana. SW:P costs 500 mana to cast. If you're running around spamming it in a large fight you'll be OOM quickly. Warlocks with a healer support can spam their DoT's all day.

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And what about 1 SP and 4 Wlocks 20/31/0 ?

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Originally Posted by margulda

And what about 1 SP and 4 Wlocks 20/31/0 ?

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4 Warlocks with a priest is great but I'd rather go holy personally. The warlocks do more than enough damage to kill targets and having an active healer makes much more difference.

Ok , let me clear some things up regarding warlocks:

4x warlock 1x priest always use this specc: (bit changed for something but overall, this is THE SPECC to go if you're running this comp (pvp) )

Warlock: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...-1350300152001
Priest: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...-2-05025201035

Warlock gear: https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pla...dY3RFLbVI7sgc0

As you can see, some pieces can be replaced in p1. I've managed to make 50% of bis gear in p1 almost, and ended up around 4400 hp self buffed and roughly 6500 hp with priest and and imp stamina buffs.

My spell power in p1 will end up roughly 380 shadow spell power and 500 with elixirs and oil. I have 3 instant dots 4x >12 dots and priest is troll (shoud have ogne for undead tho.) and priest has 20% mortal strike plus swp ticks debuff and swp it'self is 15 dots out of 16 dots cap!

Plus I have instant shadow bolts which proccs all the time and death coil versus any caster. While downside is that I don't have silence I have;

Curse of Shadow - 10% shadow dmg extra taken
Shadow Weaving - 15% shadow dmg extra taken (use r1 swp)
Demonic Sacrifice - 15% shadow dmg extra done
Shadow Mastery - 10% shadow dmg or drain life extra done
Drain Life with 70% pushback protection - 10% extra drain life done
T1 3x set - extra 15% drain life.

info - do note that T1 set 2 pieces are BIS and out of all pieces in game I think they have highest stamina/int combination and only lack few spell power from Naxx bis pieces.

Do note, this setup is etirely based on affliction which means rot playstyle which negates crit since dots can't crit.

If you combine all those, you will see the incredible scaling, the gear optimization and on top of that nearly 7k hp in p1.
All I need to do , put 2 gcd dots, and people will die in 12 secs or less. If there are healers present, I'll use coil on them instantly, and if not I'll precoil any warrior to prevent charge>fear..

There are some items that I'll farm such as Nets so I'll root people from max range and I'll also use the Aoe stuns! I also have 5 aoe fears (4 castedso I can aoe fear mass people).

I am still developing bis gear for p1 but I am nearly done! Overall, I'll push 400 spell power inp1 which requires perhaps 2 weeks of casual gameplay and then I can pretty much stomp people in pvp.

I am still testing some things that I can use to my advantage. I've managed to end up with 9000 hp as well in p5 so I'll still take a look at that setup.
With bis setup, in p6 I cound end up with 1100 spell power which is pure insanity.