Viable 5 man melee setups for PvP

Hi,
I'm a active TBC and Wotlk boxer, stopped playing on retail since Cata but I'm considering to come back when Classic goes live.

What do you think are going to be the best 4-5man melee setup to PvP on Classic?

When it comes to melee boxing I think the biggest issue that we gonna face are Blizzard spamming frost mages. Blizzard is stupidly overpowered in Classic. It's a aoe slow that reduces the movement speed by 65% and on each tick there is a 15% chance to freeze affected opponents for 5 sec. The only ways to overcome the Blizzard slow are free action potion, Blessing of Freedom or shapeshift spam as druide. I don't think that it will be possible to escape the blizzard by spamming magic dispel because the slow is reapplied on each tick, so every 1 second.
Since ferals have no fear protection I was thinking that a mix setup of like 2-3 enh shamis and 2-3 ret palys might work the best in pvp.
Ghost wolf, Frost shock, blessing of freedom, cleanse, repentence and stun hammer should make a ret/enh mix setup quite effective against kiter. In addition they would have tremor totem against fear and WF totem to enhance the ret palys.
What do you think?

Paladin is alliance only and shaman is horde only, so you can't use both.

Blizzard slows by 75% for 5 seconds with permafrost I think, so really almost impossible to move with it, only need 1 mage that use rank 1 blizzard to immobalize the entire team.

Another note about classic is that priest fear and warrior fear are both not dispellable, so only way to get out of it is with trinket (5 min cd I think), WotF (undead) or with warrior berserker rage (30 sec cd berserker stance required) or Death Wish (3 min cd), or with BS trinket.

Warrior feels like the only really viable melee class since they have a good way to get out of fear and they have a gap closer.
Paladins feels like a required healer/support for warriors in pvp since they can use freedom and dispel. So 3 warriors and 2 paladins (for 2 dispels and to counter interrupts) feels like the only really viable melee team.

Shaman can't really counter slow or CC.
Rogue don't really have any gap closer (vanish and sprint, long cd and sprint won't help against 75% slow and frost nova), or fear counter.
Druid have feral charge but no way to handle fear or CC.

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Originally Posted by xandorz

Paladin is alliance only and shaman is horde only, so you can't use both.

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Lol, you are right. I completly forgot about that.
Too bad because I think that ret and enh would have the best synergy.

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Originally Posted by xandorz

Another note about classic is that priest fear and warrior fear are both not dispellable, so only way to get out of it is with trinket (5 min cd I think), WotF (undead) or with warrior berserker rage (30 sec cd berserker stance required) or Death Wish (3 min cd), or with BS trinket.

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And tremor totem?!

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Originally Posted by xandorz

Warrior feels like the only really viable melee class since they have a good way to get out of fear and they have a gap closer.
Paladins feels like a required healer/support for warriors in pvp since they can use freedom and dispel. So 3 warriors and 2 paladins (for 2 dispels and to counter interrupts) feels like the only really viable melee team.

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I think that mixing warrior with any sort of healer is tricky in pvp.
As warrior you want to charge and run after the opponents while as healer you want to stay still in the back and cast heals.
Means your team will always be split in two grps and it's likely that the warriors will be often out of heal and follow range with your healers.
I also don't like the fact that warriors have no off heal. They have barely anything to back their healer up when he gets focused by the opponents.

After all it seems to me that melee boxing won't be very viable in pvp on Classic.

Mixing ferals and enhance might be a thing. Shape shift against blizzard, tremor totem against fear (if it removes all kind of fear) and decent off heals.

Forgot to mention the tremor totem in anti fear. It should work (I assume it does, it removes a fear effect not a magic effect so should work).

I also don't like cast time healing so you can't heal while moving and get far behind because of charge+enemy backing off.
Then it is also likely that the enemy goes around some object/wall so then it isn't just out of range but also out of LOS.
The healers could also get sapped or CCed in any other way and be unable to heal the warriors that just get further and further away.

Ghost wolf is not immune to slow below 100% speed (that was wotlk) and only works outdoors. I am not sure if it clears slows when shapeshifting and how much of a drain it is on the mana.
Feral shapeshifting should work, idk about mana cost. I think using it rarely (to break frost nova for example) might be good but using feral charge instead to get close to target.

Druids + shamans might work ok.

Hots does not stack in classic wow, only 1 of each type can be on the target. So only 1 rejuvenation (and 1 renew) can be on the target at the same time. So will have to use cast time heals.

Shapeshifting into ghost wolf doesn't break slow/roots.

When hots don't stack then I guess ferals aren't worth it either. I also don't like that they have such a fast attack speed in cat form. I prefer melee classes that hit slow but hard so there is a chance to one shot the opponent before he is healed.

After all I guess you are right that Warriors would be the best option for melee boxing since they have charge as gap closer.
Maybe 3 warriors, a disc priest and a resto shami. Magic dispell against frost mages, tremor totem against fear and WF totem to enhance the warriors.
The two healers would stay in the back and keep the warriors and each other alive. If the healers are getting focused the warriors could intervene back to them (not sure if intervene is available in classic).
That setup should at least work pretty good when it comes to dungeons and is maybe kinda viable in pvp.

What I would consider is 2 warrior, 2 paladin, 1 survival hunter. Both warriors get blessing of freedom and the hunter can provide a 41 yard range concussive shot, which will allow your warriors to get into charge range. The hunter also can CC a healer with Wyvern sting (or scatter shot if you go marksman). Warlock, priest (for offensive dispels), or mage could be other good options

I don't think that adding a hunter would be worth it. Adding a range dps to that setup would make everything even more complicated than it already is. Also, the hunter and the 2 palys wouldn't have any fear protection whatsoever.
There is also the option to just multibox exclusively warriors and find a seperated healer for the back up. That would probably work best.

After all I think that just like in TBC and Wotlk, the classic 4 ele shami and healer setup will be the best comb in PvP. Holy paly seems mandatory for that setup because of imp concentration aura.
It's interesting that the shami sets have mixed stats of strength and sp. It might be a option to play a ele/enh hybrid build just like 31/20/00. Close by opponents could be killed with a two hander that is imbued with WF and hard to reach opponents with lightning spells.

in larger pvp fights melee teams will quite suck unless you bring enough free action potions and some dedicated healers...I would rather look towards shockadins or ele shamans in that regard with some priest heal since they are the best group healers. And both combs can do serious melee dmg aswell if oom. And either of them can carry shields, where the ultimate goal would be having multiple https://classicdb.ch/?item=22198#created-by to counter blizzard/aoe spam, or shamans with 5/5 t1,5 set for 41 yard range on lightningbolt outranging blizzard ect. on max range.

I don't think that shockadin boxing gonna be viable in PvP. Holy shock has a 30 sec CD in classic and only 20 yards range.
Shamis have better mana management, more heal, better fear protection and abilitys with +36 yards range. They just seem overall stronger.

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Originally Posted by Gala

I don't think that adding a hunter would be worth it. Adding a range dps to that setup would make everything even more complicated than it already is. Also, the hunter and the 2 palys wouldn't have any fear protection whatsoever.
There is also the option to just multibox exclusively warriors and find a seperated healer for the back up. That would probably work best.

After all I think that just like in TBC and Wotlk, the classic 4 ele shami and healer setup will be the best comb in PvP. Holy paly seems mandatory for that setup because of imp concentration aura.
It's interesting that the shami sets have mixed stats of strength and sp. It might be a option to play a ele/enh hybrid build just like 31/20/00. Close by opponents could be killed with a two hander that is imbued with WF and hard to reach opponents with lightning spells.

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In Classic Concentration Aura from Pally isn't an option for a Shaman team as Pallys are Alliance only and Shamans Horde only.

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Originally Posted by Gala

Lol, you are right. I completly forgot about that.
Too bad because I think that ret and enh would have the best synergy.

And tremor totem?!

I think that mixing warrior with any sort of healer is tricky in pvp.
As warrior you want to charge and run after the opponents while as healer you want to stay still in the back and cast heals.
Means your team will always be split in two grps and it's likely that the warriors will be often out of heal and follow range with your healers.
I also don't like the fact that warriors have no off heal. They have barely anything to back their healer up when he gets focused by the opponents.

After all it seems to me that melee boxing won't be very viable in pvp on Classic.

Mixing ferals and enhance might be a thing. Shape shift against blizzard, tremor totem against fear (if it removes all kind of fear) and decent off heals.

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I'd probably not run shamans, unless it's a single shaman driving 4 warriors. The warriors have gap closers to be effective as the drones, and the shaman is going to require a lot more effort to be effective on the target. The reality is, 4 warriors + anything is going to bulldoze through most anything they run into in leveling sense, and in world PvP, like say, Hillsbrad circlejerks, if they go in at the right moment, they are gonna bulldoze again.

For world PvP though, I'd go 4 hunters and a priest probably, or 5x priests 4 of which are SP's.

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Originally Posted by Gala

I don't think that adding a hunter would be worth it. Adding a range dps to that setup would make everything even more complicated than it already is. Also, the hunter and the 2 palys wouldn't have any fear protection whatsoever.
There is also the option to just multibox exclusively warriors and find a seperated healer for the back up. That would probably work best.

After all I think that just like in TBC and Wotlk, the classic 4 ele shami and healer setup will be the best comb in PvP. Holy paly seems mandatory for that setup because of imp concentration aura.
It's interesting that the shami sets have mixed stats of strength and sp. It might be a option to play a ele/enh hybrid build just like 31/20/00. Close by opponents could be killed with a two hander that is imbued with WF and hard to reach opponents with lightning spells.

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Big reason why Ele shamans were popular, is we didn't have IWT. Casters auto turned to cast, hunters and melee didn't, so without IWT they were effectively terrible.

People are underestimating the effectiveness of warriors here I think, and perhaps hunters, since we will have IWT. 4 warriors barreling into a group out in the world is going to kill people so fast, that even if a mage scuttles away to drop blizzard snares, or a warlock starts fearing people off, the damage is going to be done quickly. This isn't going to be arena PvP, where everyone is ready, with their arena frame mods etc.

In fact, 5 hybrid druids would be utter hilarity. If world PvP is your goal, you'd probably be hard pressed to find a more enjoyable group than 5 druids, or maybe 1 rogue and 4 druids. Feral charge out of stealth, regrowths out the wazoo, bash, etc etc. Although now that I think of it, 2005 was like the golden age of the hybrid druid builds, and I'm not sure if they were nerfed by summer 2006 :)

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Originally Posted by Mercbeast

People are underestimating the effectiveness of warriors here I think

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It really depends on the situation. If you charge into a raid with 4 warriors you're probably going to die. If you're part of a zerg vs zerg fight though where you're not the only target, you can definitely do some work with warriors if you're patient and dive at the right time. Especially as alliance with paladin healers. Preemptively pop freedom, death wish and skull and your warriors are effectively immune to all CC for the next 10-30 seconds with a 60% run speed buff. You will just chainsaw through people as fast as you can get on them.

However, if the enemy is smart and just focuses you you will still die fast. SL Warlocks just mashing DoT's on everything from range would probably contribute more to a PvP raid and stay alive longer.

Completely agree on the druids. 5 Druids would actually be a pretty fun group to play for world PvP ganking. Open with pounce, rake and then moonfire/IS. I'm pretty sure most people would just die to your DoT's. Only issue would be AE fears. You'd really need to farm PvP trinkets asap. It actually wouldn't be a terrible dungeon group either. You could heal for days cycling 5 innervates. I might end up giving this a try at some point.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

... Completely agree on the druids. 5 Druids would actually be a pretty fun group to play for world PvP ganking. Open with pounce, rake and then moonfire/IS. I'm pretty sure most people would just die to your DoT's. Only issue would be AE fears. You'd really need to farm PvP trinkets asap. It actually wouldn't be a terrible dungeon group either. You could heal for days cycling 5 innervates. I might end up giving this a try at some point.

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Interesting! If you did 5 druids would specs would you run all 5 in for Dungeon clears (all the same or not)? Would you have 1 as your main healer and supplement with the others as needed or actually cycle between the characters?

What specs would you run for World PVP Ganking (the same for all 5 or different)?

Especially interesting if the 0/30/21 Druid spec is the one spec to rule them all :-) https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0ZxxhscMdxVxckxo.

Yeah, the HotW/NS spec is pretty much best all around for PvE/PvP. I'd probably run in spell damage gear and just swap into form for stealth.

Actually, in spell damage gear you probably wouldn't even need to try to open with bleeds. Opening with 5* starfires out of stealth would probably instagib most people I'd guess? Never actually tried it, it just seems like a weird alt group if you're bored.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Yeah, the HotW/NS spec is pretty much best all around for PvE/PvP. I'd probably run in spell damage gear and just swap into form for stealth.

Actually, in spell damage gear you probably wouldn't even need to try to open with bleeds. Opening with 5* starfires out of stealth would probably instagib most people I'd guess? Never actually tried it, it just seems like a weird alt group if you're bored.

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LOL yeah it could be pretty fun for ganking if you like that.

How would you compare a 5 box team of Druids and Rogues (something like Druid Tank, Druid Healer, & 3 rogues) to 5 Druids in both PVE & PVP?

Rogues require too much micro to be effective in PvE or PvP IMO. I wouldn't want to try boxing one.

I'd just keep one set of feral and one set of spell damage on each of the druids. Go 4* feral and a resto for dungeons then swap them all to spell gear in PvP. Feral PvE DPS is pretty solid. Kind of annoying having to position behind targets but if you drive from the tank it's not too hard to turn mobs around.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Rogues require too much micro to be effective in PvE or PvP IMO. I wouldn't want to try boxing one.

I'd just keep one set of feral and one set of spell damage on each of the druids. Go 4* feral and a resto for dungeons then swap them all to spell gear in PvP. Feral PvE DPS is pretty solid. Kind of annoying having to position behind targets but if you drive from the tank it's not too hard to turn mobs around.

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LoL. I love druids and at least want one (or maybe a duo) for Flag running in WSG at some point. Maybe after my main team I will do a 5 druid team instead of doing one or a duo ;-) .

How would you compare a Druid+2 Warrior+2 Paladin team to a 3 Warrior+2 Paladins in PVE & PVP?

I was thinking of running 4x mage and 4x disc for world pvp. With PI and AP I would get 50% increase to damage overall. Also, would go tailoring/enginering on all so I can have nice income for mooncloth, can also swap tailoring once i get my recipes and chests for alchemy transmutes or we.

Thing is, that 4x mage 4x disc can just rape mass group of people with ease (rush in, pop pi and ap and spam arcane explosion for 1/1.5 per tick per mage so that's easy 6k dmg) Plus iceblock in case of emergency If i go full frost instead ap so I can heal quckly.

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I was thinking of running 4x mage and 4x disc for world pvp. With PI and AP I would get 50% increase to damage overall. Also, would go tailoring/enginering on all so I can have nice income for mooncloth, can also swap tailoring once i get my recipes and chests for alchemy transmutes or we.

Thing is, that 4x mage 4x disc can just rape mass group of people with ease (rush in, pop pi and ap and spam arcane explosion for 1/1.5 per tick per mage so that's easy 6k dmg) Plus iceblock in case of emergency If i go full frost instead ap so I can heal quckly.

What do you think?

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Sounds OP. I think you need to go Alliance side and run in a raid with at least 2 5-box groups of 3 Warriors+2 Paladins running front line & general interference for you ;-).

You mean that the warriors hold the line for me and then just randomly 1 shotting 10 people ? haha

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Originally Posted by nodoze

How would you compare a Druid+2 Warrior+2 Paladin team to a 3 Warrior+2 Paladins in PVE & PVP?

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Warrior/paladin is definitely a stronger team all around.

You wouldn't play the druids the same way though. Druids would just be for stealthing around enemy cities ganking people while they're dueling and stuff like that. Picking off stragglers that are running around in zergs and then running away in travel form. Could be a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

spam arcane explosion

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Engineering seems like it would make more sense. Run in with invisibility pots, pop goblin sapper charges, frost nova and arcane explosion and you could probably wipe a raid if they were stacked and not paying attention. 8 GSC's is like 4,000 instant damage by itself.

4 Mages/4 Priests is kind of an awkward number though. Why 8 characters instead of 10? I'd probably swap one of the priests for a druid. Rejuvenation stacks with renew and having a druid would allow you to farm dungeons for preraid BiS.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Warrior/paladin is definitely a stronger team all around.

You wouldn't play the druids the same way though. Druids would just be for stealthing around enemy cities ganking people while they're dueling and stuff like that. Picking off stragglers that are running around in zergs and then running away in travel form. Could be a lot of fun.

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Sorry for mixing various ideas and in-artfully switching gears from the 5 Druid discussion (sorry I am kinda all-over-the-board right now thinking through various options)...

I was trying to ask how much would your effectiveness suffer in PVE and PVP if you swapped a single Druid for one Warrior in a 3 Warrior + 2 Paladin group.

I ask because I know for sure that at end game I would like to have at least one Druid flag runner once WSG is released so I was trying to get an idea how much weaker my group would be for Phase 2 World PVP ranking with 1 Druid +2 Warriors +2 Paladins instead of 3 Warriors +2 Paladins. Also want to understand how much efficiency I would lose on PVE dungeon grinding for BiS gear for Phase 1+.

I was trying to get a feel for trade-offs so maybe I wouldn't need to level a druid later.

I am struggling with bfa gold as it is, that's the main thing.

What's the worse for the boxer. Fear, I think going undead is pretty neat. eat the body to gain health, and forsaken. Plus use pvp trinket. I'd love to play 5 shamans, but I think 5X warlocks can do some serious damage, dott anything that tries to get away....or kite you.

I'm thinking that 4x warlocks and 1 mage can be fun... If we change to 3x warlocks, 1 priest, 1 mage. Can be interesting, stamina buff, intellect, do to all the buffs and fast travel, dispells, mage can slow the target down that anything starts to charge you... also get some heals from the priest as disc.

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Originally Posted by sethlan

What's the worse for the boxer. Fear, I think going undead is pretty neat. eat the body to gain health, and forsaken. Plus use pvp trinket. I'd love to play 5 shamans, but I think 5X warlocks can do some serious damage, dott anything that tries to get away....or kite you.

I'm thinking that 4x warlocks and 1 mage can be fun... If we change to 3x warlocks, 1 priest, 1 mage. Can be interesting, stamina buff, intellect, do to all the buffs and fast travel, dispells, mage can slow the target down that anything starts to charge you... also get some heals from the priest as disc.

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Your effectiveness in PVP somewhat depends on your efficiency in PVE grinding and you have no true PVE Tank option and I would have concerns relying on pets if no /focus solution is found before Classic goes live... Assuming you have the gear PVP performance-wise that sounds consistent with & temporarily countered by:

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

It really depends on the situation. If you charge into a raid with 4 warriors you're probably going to die. If you're part of a zerg vs zerg fight though where you're not the only target, you can definitely do some work with warriors if you're patient and dive at the right time. Especially as alliance with paladin healers. Preemptively pop freedom, death wish and skull [of impending doom] and your warriors are effectively immune to all CC for the next 10-30 seconds with a 60% run speed buff. You will just chainsaw through people as fast as you can get on them.

However, if the enemy is smart and just focuses you you will still die fast. SL Warlocks just mashing DoT's on everything from range would probably contribute more to a PvP raid and stay alive longer. ...

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While undead are very nice I will main a Paladin thus have to go Alliance. If I recall correctly Alliance Dwarf Priests also have Fear Ward to preemptively protect themselves or an Alliance party/raid member and the Horde doesn't have a Fear Ward option.

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Originally Posted by nodoze

1 Druid +2 Warriors +2 Paladins

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Ah I misread your question. Swapping a warrior for a druid would reduce your overall damage a little in PvE but you'd still be able to clear fine. In PvP 2 warriors with freedom will still wreck casters pretty quick. It'd be a bit more to think about like putting a shapeshift macro on the same hotkey as your freedoms so the druid can shift out of CC, etc. but it'd still work fine I think.

I'd probably go full feral in that case for the 3% crit buff for the warriors. At least while you're mostly focused on dungeon farming for preraid gear. 3% Crit is pretty huge.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Ah I misread your question. Swapping a warrior for a druid would reduce your overall damage a little in PvE but you'd still be able to clear fine. In PvP 2 warriors with freedom will still wreck casters pretty quick. It'd be a bit more to think about like putting a shapeshift macro on the same hotkey as your freedoms so the druid can shift out of CC, etc. but it'd still work fine I think.

I'd probably go full feral in that case for the 3% crit buff for the warriors. At least while you're mostly focused on dungeon farming for preraid gear. 3% Crit is pretty huge.

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Likely I will avoid PVP as much as possible in Phase 1 and focus on instances until at least one Paladin & one Warrior have full sets of Pre-Raid BiS gear and the others have at least decent gear on all slots.

What Druid spec would you recommend for full Feral for grinding instead of 0/31/21?

Just a full feral tank spec. Something like: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0zLVcoZxxxscMdtL

People often overlook improved thorns in vanilla. It's actually pretty solid threat builder as a tank. You deal 130% threat with all damage in bear form, including auras, so between ret aura and thorns it'd be something like 50 damage and 65 threat every time a mob hits you.

You can also get a few items like the cloth helm from the last boss in Gnomeragen (forget what it's called) and the ring from the golem boss in BRD that has armor and does damage whenever struck. Gift of arthas is a cheap consumable that applies a debuff to everything that hits you that causes threat, crystals from Un'Goro, etc.

Then just spam swipe/maul.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Just a full feral tank spec. Something like: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0zLVcoZxxgscMdtb

People often overlook improved thorns in vanilla. It's actually pretty solid threat builder as a tank. You deal 130% threat with all damage in bear form, including auras, so between ret aura and thorns it'd be something like 50 damage and 65 threat every time a mob hits you.

You can also get a few items like the cloth helm from the last boss in Gnomeragen (forget what it's called) and the ring from the golem boss in BRD that has armor and does damage whenever struck. Gift of arthas is a cheap consumable that applies a debuff to everything that hits you that causes threat, crystals from Un'Goro, etc.

Then just spam swipe/maul.

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Thanks for the 14/35/2 spec! Really wish these forums could give points as you would have a million thanks by now :).

Considering my goals and what I like to play I may just go 2 Paladins+2 Warriors+1 Druid instead of 2 Paladin + 3 Warriors...

Don't forget to pre-HoT yourself, too. Regrowth/rejuv before a pull helps quite a lot to pick up initial threat.

Since you have a main tank you could probably even go ret on one of your paladins. The main reason to have two healers in the group is to keep up with the damage split between your warriors. If most of the damage is going to be on your druid in dungeons there's no real reason to have two healers. Could just build a traditional dungeon group with tank, 3 DPS and a healer.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Don't forget to pre-HoT yourself, too. Regrowth/rejuv before a pull helps quite a lot to pick up initial threat.

Since you have a main tank you could probably even go ret on one of your paladins. The main reason to have two healers in the group is to keep up with the damage split between your warriors. If most of the damage is going to be on your druid in dungeons there's no real reason to have two healers. Could just build a traditional dungeon group with tank, 3 DPS and a healer.

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Thanks! Your input really helps with Theory Crafting & planning! My brother really likes to play his Paladin as either Prot or Ret or an aggressive cross of the two. What spec would you recommend for both Paladins in that scenario (I think we already have several healing specs so really the Ret one is the one we would need the most).

The same holy/prot spec is fine for your main healer: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxurg0xVGLI0z

I actually have no idea what a good PvE ret spec is. Never played ret in vanilla. Something like: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sxVzZxGZVfcxbfV

Have a look around on Google though, I'm just guessing. Best spec might also be a little different for boxing since (IMO) you'll definitely want the 2 points in Guardian's Favor to have as much uptime on freedom for your warriors as possible.

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

The same holy/prot spec is fine for your main healer: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxurg0xVGLI0z

I actually have no idea what a good PvE ret spec is. Never played ret in vanilla. Something like: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sxVzZxGZVfcxbfV

Have a look around on Google though, I'm just guessing. Best spec might also be a little different for boxing since (IMO) you'll definitely want the 2 points in Guardian's Favor to have as much uptime on freedom for your warriors as possible.

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Thanks! I am pretty sure both of the specs I had planned on running have Guardian's Favor and pretty sure at least one of the options I was going to try had full points in improved Blessing of Might in case I want to run with that as one of the 2 Blessings on my 3 DPS (or Tank and 3 DPS).

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Originally Posted by Apatheist

Yeah, the HotW/NS spec is pretty much best all around for PvE/PvP. I'd probably run in spell damage gear and just swap into form for stealth.

Actually, in spell damage gear you probably wouldn't even need to try to open with bleeds. Opening with 5* starfires out of stealth would probably instagib most people I'd guess? Never actually tried it, it just seems like a weird alt group if you're bored.

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Well even in feral and without the luxury to attack from behind, something like rake*4, Polymorph switch (with Wolfsheim helm so you insta regain beetween 40 and 60 energy), and Ferious bite, that will hurt.

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Originally Posted by nodoze

In Classic Concentration Aura from Pally isn't an option for a Shaman team as Pallys are Alliance only and Shamans Horde only.

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You are obviously right. Still need to get used to the fact that paly and shami are faction restricted in classic XD

W/o concentration aura I think that for ele shamis the casting delay when taking dmg gonna be a serious issue when it comes to lightning spells.
Eye of the strom is only triggered from physical crits and as far as I know there is no shami set bonus that would reduce the cast delay on lightning spells. Hardcasting lightning bolt will easily take over 4 seconds when there are opponents that spamm aoe abilitys such as blizzard and rain of fire on the shamis.