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Anyone expecting to do flashpoints without a PC tank can pretty much forget about it. Bioware I guess in one of the late beta builds removed a passive armor buff that was attached to their tank stance.
Tank companions now will generally rock around 25-28% armor mitigation, down from the 45-55 they could achieve back in Sept/Oct and early Nov.
Good IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercbeast
As a tank on a server that has regular ques, that seems flooded with tanks. I can appreciate them not having companions fill my spot.
Companions were able to fill the role, not do it better than a competent player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
Tank companions now cannot tank. They completely fail at their role. They only real difference now between DPS and tank companions are taunts.
Hmm.. I wonder if it would have been better to make weaker companions that don't take up group slots, and can be out while in a group; to avoid the whole 'wah, i'm x class but companions take my place' whine. This also defeats the whole purpose of having them take group slots, really; if their not a 'player fill in' then having them take the place of players seems kinda dumb.
Meh; I like companions, they just feel too nerfed. can't wait till /follow is fixed, I'll just 4box it and not worry bout it.
This is semi-related, but opposite...
How is Mako's healing? If I dual'd a Powertech/Mercenary, would the Merc and 2 Mako's give me enough healing for most FPs? I'm sure they'd destroy the normal content like anything other combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heenan
Thats what I'm doing.. pt/merc ..the two makos can keep you from having to spam heals with your merc.. but they can not heal through heavy burst from a boss. Unless you out level the instance.
I was doing 2 mercs but yeah, no tank = got really painful about level 20. also ran into the heat thing; kinda wondering if tank/sorc might be a better duo for pve...
really cant wait till i can do 3 sorcs and a tank. [thinking assassin, just for aesthetics] Getting pretty good milage out of healing their tank companion with my sorc duo, but I think a player tank would make it even better. Dunno. could always level a ass/sorc combo on new accounts and combine them w/ the two sorcs later, when follow is fixed. Or just level an ass on one of my current counts to duo with my existing sorc;
i suffer from alt-itis, lol.
my 2 merc hit a wall above level 20 for flash points. I can't even down the last boss in hammer station. and I am level 21 already. Hammer station is a level 17-18 instance. well, time to group up with others.
Yep, my two 50 Commandos can't really do instances.
It has made me reappraise my class make up. Now I think for PvE I will be running a Vanguard or an Assassin combined with a scoundrel. Two DPS companions and I will cover healing and tanking.
With the nerf to tank companions that becomes what is probably the only viable method to play for flashpoints. With good enough gear it might be possible to manage with two healing companions. I guess we will see.
the fact that you got two to 50 amazes me lol.. you have serious patience! i can not stand boxing for more than an hour or so with follow the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercbeast
I had the same issue with Hammer Station, last boss was just too tough for my Khem Val even with decent gear. Tried a bunch of times and then had a PC tank join us and the difference was night and day. Black Talon was the only one I found doable 2 boxing with 2 companions.
The only good thing about using companions instead of players is skipping through the cut-scenes you've already done.
Players should be better than a companion in every aspect besides that.
Meh; I don't know if I understand that logic. It seems to be similar to the logic that people use [negatively] about boxing; "why box, real players should be better in almost every aspect than box-d toons, so why box, get some friends, learn 2 play, etc"
I'm actually OK with that, really. But if you [and this is getting into design mechanics] design companions as player stand-ins, as opposed to 'eye candy' or 'a gimmick' then taking that approach to that extreme seems sort of nonsensical. and the whole 'taking a player slot' bit would indicate that their going for player stand-ins.
If they are going for the other, then forcing companions to take group slots simply limits the effectiveness of the eye/candy gimmick.
Seems like it'd be better to go with one or the other extreme, rather than sorta straddle the middle. One wonders where companions will end up; as content gets "harder" over time, will they scale companions or will they eventually be relegated to more of a gimmick for leveling up/soloing. I mean, sure you can give them gear, but if there abilities don't scale then better gear is more of a band-aid.
Also, whatever happened to the old argument that [competent] players are better than companions because they are *gasp* smarter and don't stand in the fire. =p I mean, irrespective of how powerful or weak they are, they will never really match another player in terms of intelligent application of force.
Well in my opinion i see Companions as Star Wars way to influence your game play. I mean they alter the choices you make when responding to quests. As far as combat they are more like helpers than a player. Kinda like a hunter pet etc.
I mean you wouldnt expect them to make the decisions like a person would. You dont expect a hunter pet to tank bosses in wow do you? Sure its been done... but thats very few and far between.
All in all i enjoy progressing with my companions and using them. but when i run flashpoints i'd rather have a group of people/friends.
exactly; hunter pets are in no way billed to be a player replacement; they don't take group slots, and have a function within group combat. they are not equated in any way, via game mechanics, to a player or independent entity.
contrast with companions; the whole 'taking a group slot' thing, the whole 'if player leaves instance, finish it out with companion' etc logic goes out the window if you consider companions that way. furthermore, they'd be more effective [as a decision influencer] if you allowed them [similar to hunter pets] to be omnipresent. [or nearly so].
So, in short: they are more 'powerful' than pets in other games, e.g. not pets, so they take group slots.
but, turns out in the end, they are fundamentally weaker than players, making them basically a gimmick.
Still perplexed why this is surprising or so disagreeable. Also, companions seem to be there to add "Star Wars" flavor to the game not to replace the need for other players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishar
The point he is making I think is that Bioware has nerfed tank companions to the point where they are completely useless for filling the tank role.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavScout
Not only were players better before, they had that dynamic decision making ability that has already been mentioned. Companions not only do not have that, the tanks no longer can boast a mitigation level higher than any other heavy armor wearing companion.
All tank companions do now is ensure that you will lose your companion rapidly in any sort of fight. They cannot tank but they still pull agro like champions. This means they die super fast. On the other hand a DPS companion in heavy armor has the same mitigation doesn't pull agro and will split agro with you appropriately!
Do you know how uber a heal class and a heroic capable companion tank would be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercbeast
Eh well thats part of it; a big part of it. They are like half/half, as opposed to one way or the other.
for example, the way blizzard/other MMOs treats hunter pets is as total pets; they are secondary, not necessary at all, in any way, not intended to replace players, more a mechanic inherent to certain [pet] classes
tor has this weird, pets are pets++, their sorta-players, take group slots, intended to allow partial groups to access content that they otherwise would be locked to...cept, they are going all weird now and nerfing tank companions, which is a blizzard/other move, BUT, companions still take group slots, and otherwise kinda-sorta try to function like player stand in's, just sort of failing hard.
anyway, as a direct reply, do you know how ubur a tank class and a heal companion is? =p [the answer, not really that ubur, nor would the opposite be] The only real difference is my dual sorcs might have a snowballs chance in hell of doing a group instance, or heaven forbid, a 4 player heroic quest, without a player tank. The horror, game breaking, totally.
do you play a tank, or something?
Not caring?Quote:
Originally Posted by CavScout
The tank cannot tank. Why is it a tank if it can't tank?
I don't really care if this is a zero sum type deal. If it's called a tank it should have the ability to actually tank. I don't care if it has 10% more mitigation or 20% more like it used to have. It should have more mitigation to account for being a tank.
Right now tank companions are far and away the worst companions in the game. Medium armor players tank better than they do. I'm clearing heroic flashpoints right now with a sentinel tanking and the sentinel has higher mitigation than my tank companions that are wearing full epic tank sets.
You're still stuck in the circular logic that tank companions are replacements for tank players (in heroics). They tank just fine in pretty much every other scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercbeast
No, they really don't. Once you hit above level 20 or so, they get insta gibbed by just about any pack of mobs containing more than one strong. It only gets worse as you level.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavScout
I agree with Merc, I've been running one of my sorcs with a tank pet and he's only barely better than I am when it comes to soaking damage. Even spec as a healer, spamming heals and shields the entire fight my "tank" pet still ends a fight under 50% health.
I also have another healer sorc that I run with my husband, who is a tank. We were forced to run dual tanks for a while {him + my tank pet} and it was a nightmare. Killing was slow and again it was spamming heals on my pet. I finally got my DPS pet and I almost never have to stand around healing.
Unless your idea of "tanking" is throwing taunts. In that case, sure, they throw taunts like a champ.
I don't really have a problem now that I have upgraded both my tanks. I spent a couple thousand pvp tokens on pvp gear and put them in it, and bought some nice weapons and relics and they now perform the roll exactly as I need it and then some. But, I do see where other people complaints are stemming from and from 20-35ish they were useless to me no matter what i put on them or did with them.
I have my melee tank in assorted tier 2 PvP gear and crafted purple pvp gear/moddable gear. He doesn't tank very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crum1515
I'm having no problem. I have even used my companion to tank flashpoints in the mid 30 - late 30 range. I am starting to use my dps companion more now while questing though as its easier to burn through mobs now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercbeast
This thread has been helpful. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
My original character is Jedi Consular Shadow currently speced for infiltration for max stealth & DPS but I can respec for Tanking with stealth between fights at some point... I really enjoy the stealth for gathering and initiating fights but I started hitting a wall as my companion tank couldn't hack it in FPs around level 20... My buddy is a smuggler-gunslinger & things were really fun up to 20 but now, as 2 DPS specs with companions we have to keep rezing our pets/each other and wipe periodically... That lead me to this thread...
My new multi-box party now consists of:
- Trooper-Vanguard Tank;
- Smuggler-Scoundrel Healer (with stealth);
- DPS Companion;
- DPS Companion;
So far they have been going through things much faster than before and hopefully can hack it at 20+. At some point I may try to match up a stealth tank with a stealth healer but for now I wanted to use a ranged tank over a melee tank to make multi-boxing more manageable in the new game...
Please keep reporting back on viability of various duos with 2 companions and any heroics that can't be cleared on level (or within a level). I will try to do the same.
I'm running Merc and my pet is healer. I've not hand any problems on the 2+ group quests running solo.
The SI end companion has the full tank buff. So it gets better if you took the sorc route. Not sure on the rest, still working on those.
It starts with light armor however. It would have been total lol had they not left Xalek with the armor buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadi
I'd be curious to see what his mitigation level is at 50.
My tank companions in full tank purples get about 27% mitigation.