Turning the tide in AV (as Horde)

Ok, I've heard that depending on battlegroup, AV can be downhill in either direction. On Cyclone it is the Alliance that will win by default.

Causes:
There seems to be a mentality of getting the BG over quickly, so both sides race. This greatly favors the alliance as it is far easier to waltz into the frostwolf base and tap everything. Even if both sides are uninterrupted, the Alliance side will start the taps first, thereby winning a race to kill the general. Horde meanwhile seems obsessed with sending the entire team to Balinda, not even properly racing. They start the taps at the first two bunkers and graveyard well after the Alliance has tapped their corresponding targets.

How to change it as a multi-boxer without a ton of buy-in from the rest of the raid? Two methods:
1. Offensive - get mounted up, rush past the bunkers, straight to Stormpike Graveyard, tap it and march across, kill all the archers and tap the Aid Station. I say kill the archers because you have to consider that half your team is under 80 and those archers really hurt them. It's good to have their help as any of them that make it up there are going to be the kind to sit in bunkers and actually *try*. I've had some success with this and it really just seems to even up the race, result is 50-50, but it is fast and sometimes even a loss yields 4 bunkers destroyed. I was able to pull this off in the upper 70's.

2. Defensive - The far more successful method. I get to Iceblood Graveyard, just before it on the west side. There is a finger jutting out of the mountain where I can look straight down the road past Iceblood Tower toward Galv's. I stay mounted up here and hide behind the terrain. Titling the camera I can see them coming and get a good shot off as they are on the way in. The Alliance will usually send 5-8 people straight past Galv's to get taps started very early on the Horde base. As I'm affliction warlock (x4), I just put corruption on each person running past. This easily kills anyone under level 80 or forces them to blow their cooldown. Don't chase. Kill all of them that you can at that point. Then when everyone shows up from killing Galv, duke it out with them, kill as many as possible. At level 80, you might actually send the whole band packing, but don't expect it. Instead go for a quick rez at frostwolf and clean up the first guys that ran past.

You'll now have cost them several minutes and should have everything from Frostwolf graveyard south secure. You've also sent numerous Alliance packing back north. This method depends on someone tapping Stonehearth Bunker, so that the Alliance doesn't respawn right on top of your 2 tapped bunkers, taking them back.

Both methods depend on someone else doing something. The first largely hopes that your have some defense with a clue or that the Alliance is inept. The second that someone will tap Stonehearth Bunker. In both cases this is a problem because it doesn't seem uncommon that Horde sends 30+ at Balinda (not many afk's really).


Strategy with buy-in:
1. Send half the team to Stonehearth graveyard. Split up to take bunkers, the majority hold the choke and keep Alliance bottled up north.
2. Half the team goes to Galv and wipes Alliance there. 10 of them go south to recap, clear the runners, the other 10 go north to join #1 at the choke point.
3. Hold the choke until both bunkers are destroyed.
4a. Release the choke and start a race where Horde has a 4 minute time advantage.
4b. Hold the choke and win on reinforcements.
4c. Summon Lok and march north.

MB on horde are better at capping alliance towers while MB on alliance are better at defending alliance towers. It's pretty difficult to get 5 toons up the winding staircase in towers that alliance is supposed to attack, whereas it's relatively easy to get 5 toons up the towers that horde is supposed to attack. So, if I was to play horde, I would be offensively capping towers ahead of the Balinda mob. Since I play alliance, i go back and recap the towers that horde captured thereby delaying them and often causing our side to win (if we have a tank that is).

To sum up, as a multiboxer you do most of your tower fighting in alliance towers... whether you're attacking them or defending them.

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Originally Posted by Owltoid

MB on horde are better at capping alliance towers while MB on alliance are better at defending alliance towers. It's pretty difficult to get 5 toons up the winding staircase in towers that alliance is supposed to attack, whereas it's relatively easy to get 5 toons up the towers that horde is supposed to attack. So, if I was to play horde, I would be offensively capping towers ahead of the Balinda mob. Since I play alliance, i go back and recap the towers that horde captured thereby delaying them and often causing our side to win (if we have a tank that is).

To sum up, as a multiboxer you do most of your tower fighting in alliance towers... whether you're attacking them or defending them.

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Horde boxers definitely have the advantage at assaulting Alliance towers. I usually take the archers from outside (I can get 3 of them from one standpoint before I move to the other side). I will then run in, kill any remaining archers (and possibly the 1 rogue or something that decides to defend) and if I'm the only one in the tower, park at the top of the ramp with Tremor, Grounding, and refreshing 5x magmas to keep anyone from sneaking up the tower. I've never lost a tower when I do that, unless I just get zerged (which is usually because the Alliance knows I'm there boxing).

Once the tower that I hit has capped, I'll go straight north. By then, Stormpike GY has been assaulted, so I go straight to the DB towers.

If someone is already hitting Stonehearth, I'll go straight to Bal after I kill the archers on one side. I can 'solo' Balinda with an earth elemental or two, and then I'll head straight north. When we have a smart raid (and I can get all my toons in one group) we win. Last night I went for about 10 win vs 4 losses.

I should have mentioned that my strat was also built around not going into bunkers or towers at all. It's been working pretty well, and I don't deal with the frustration of stairs or ramps.

I do the opposite but I'm alliance on Cyclone. I usually end up just going for Galv and after he is dead I retake SH Bunker almost easy every game and then waltz on over the Ice Wing and then just go between the two. Most of the time its enough of a time waste and resource waste of the horde to attempt to take/retake them that allow the retarded alliance who all stand on the hill in front of drek time to AFK some extra time to prep for him.

Best way to win as Horde. Most of the time its tons of low levels guarding IBT and TP, so after Belinda retake those towers and you should most likely win. I will admit though its much easier retaking a tower as a shammy compared to a lock I bet

Was that you I was slugging it out with the other night?

The shammy team I was up against took me down 3 of 5 times, but on the two times I won I also took out the 20 guys around them (when three volleys of SoC go off at once....)

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Originally Posted by HTeam

Was that you I was slugging it out with the other night?

The shammy team I was up against took me down 3 of 5 times, but on the two times I won I also took out the 20 guys around them (when three volleys of SoC go off at once....)

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When me and Xenocas team are in AV... we go right to the two horde base towers, it pisses me off when I'm in there alone and dumb ass Alliance tap RH first.. they do not GET IT! that you HAVE to tap the towers first.. RH is important but secondary in the race to cap the towers!

When horde beat us in the cap race, one of us will port back and try and slow them down a bit. It works some times. A 3rd boxer in there with us would almost ensure a win every game! We win 90% of the time now. Most the time with my tank tanking the IBT and TP guards along with the horde boss lol. Alliance are stupid on my BG 8( FACTION CHANGE here I come!!

I used to cry (almost literally) because RUIN battlegroup sucked ass so bad for Horde. Yet now since they added XP to battlegrounds Horde wins all the time now! Hooray! But I don't play as much BGs as I used to because heroics need to get done. :(

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Originally Posted by Lyonheart

When me and Xenocas team are in AV... we go right to the two horde base towers, it pisses me off when I'm in there alone and dumb ass Alliance tap RH first.. they do not GET IT! that you HAVE to tap the towers first.. RH is important but secondary in the race to cap the towers!

When horde beat us in the cap race, one of us will port back and try and slow them down a bit. It works some times. A 3rd boxer in there with us would almost ensure a win every game! We win 90% of the time now. Most the time with my tank tanking the IBT and TP guards along with the horde boss lol. Alliance are stupid on my BG 8( FACTION CHANGE here I come!!

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Pssh, grass is always greener on the other side. I'm moving my shaman to alliance =)

Horde is starting to win some on Cyclone. They're still pretty dumb about the whole deal, most everyone goes after Balinda and doesn't get the taps started. But we're starting to see a few horde play defense and kick the alliance out of everything from Frostwold graveyard south. It's still frustrating because nobody gets the concept that starting the timers first and then getting Balinda saves time. That is, they're happy to be in a race and simultaneously avoid saving time. It's like dealing with little kids, they grab the first thing they see (I'll give you $1 right now or $10 tomorrow...)

I can only imagine what a premade on Magtheridon would look like, several sets of boxers at once, holding off chokepoints.

I started leveling my original 'main' shammy up in AV with my 4 80s in tow, and I'm surprised at our win ratio. What's really funny is at first people were like "boxing noob, we're gonna lose, etc. ad nauseum", but now people are recognizing me again (since I haven't played AV since 70) and glad to have a shammy boxer.

Lately, I kill the archers from range at SH and whatever that other one is in the middle and let someone cap them, I head straight for the DB towers, kill the archers from range, and then plant 20 totems and start throwing chain lightnings and lava bursts as fast as I can. If need be, I drop 5 fire eles and by then the turtle at SP GY is broken, and horde on Reckoning are winning probably 60% of the time in games I'm in.

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Originally Posted by Siaea

I started leveling my original 'main' shammy up in AV with my 4 80s in tow, and I'm surprised at our win ratio. What's really funny is at first people were like "boxing noob, we're gonna lose, etc. ad nauseum", but now people are recognizing me again (since I haven't played AV since 70) and glad to have a shammy boxer.

Lately, I kill the archers from range at SH and whatever that other one is in the middle and let someone cap them, I head straight for the DB towers, kill the archers from range, and then plant 20 totems and start throwing chain lightnings and lava bursts as fast as I can. If need be, I drop 5 fire eles and by then the turtle at SP GY is broken, and horde on Reckoning are winning probably 60% of the time in games I'm in.

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People on Magtheridon and I guess some in the RUIN battlegroup are familiar with The Zerg. I haven't heard anyone gripe about losing because of boxers in a long time. In AV, that is. Perhaps in Warsong Gulch they would cry.

I was doing good from about 71-73 (on my priest) with my 4 shaman playing defense. Choke point, make FW GY impossible to cap, recap two towers, then go back down and wipe all the lowbies and recap relief hut so they're all gone. Unfortunately I've been getting teams who can't even kill belinda or cap a single tower. I don't know where they all are (never more than 8 or so of us down south), but they just run out of reinforcements. I'm not sure how to prevent this. Most of the time as a last effort I run up and kill belinda myself for the xp.

if both towers are capped, is it possible to kill drek with 5 80 shamans via rock elementals solo? If not, could I do it by healing the elementals if there was enough dps support? Alliance frequently runs into no-tank games where we've got the towers capped, but there's no tank around ...

If I know its a no tank game and I am running my shammies I just start when they are all there with the Earth Elementals to give the kick start else they just stand around and let the horde win.

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Originally Posted by gitcho

if both towers are capped, is it possible to kill drek with 5 80 shamans via rock elementals solo? If not, could I do it by healing the elementals if there was enough dps support? Alliance frequently runs into no-tank games where we've got the towers capped, but there's no tank around ...

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I killed vandar with 4 80 shamans and rock elementals and maybe 3-4 71-74s helping, no tanks. There was 1 war marshal up, so with none I bet it's a breeze.

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I killed vandar with 4 80 shamans and rock elementals and maybe 3-4 71-74s helping, no tanks. There was 1 war marshal up, so with none I bet it's a breeze.

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did you have to heal your rocks?

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Originally Posted by gitcho

did you have to heal your rocks?

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I don't even bother, the shaman do 5-6k dps each on him

Im on reckoning as horde, and it seems we do pretty good if im playing. My defense strategy is to stop the keep rush and hope our offense had enough time to kill belinda and solidify defense against all the people i just sent back. Runs about 11-20 minutes on the games we win. I don't play for honor per hour efficency, I play to win. I'll always take a win over a quick loss.


Plan A
Heres how it usually happens:

1) I park my guys at the choke point into the horde base.
2) Usually i get 1-6 people rushing the horde keep at the start, so i'll wipe them and wait. Usually half of them are under 80.
3) Eventually enough Alliance get to frostwolf GY that they group up and rush with about 10-15 people. Ill drop my fire elementals and start killing as many as possible.

By the point alliance should have the first two horde graveyards and any deaths on the offense side will have been pushed back to the keep giving me help against the alliance who are rushing. I'll usually kill everyone here and (assuming horde didnt take snowfall) the alliance will have been sent back to snowfall not causing a turtle.

4) Once the keep and its towers have been secured i'll push up to FW which should only have a few defenders left and kill them. At this point depending on how many horde got sent back from their offense rush, ill go offense or continue to defend.

Plan A's greatest weekness is occasionally ill get a keep rush with some 40k pally tank with healers and get completly destroyed.

Plan B (B for bored of plan A)
When I get bored of that, ill mix it up and sometimes go on offense and sit in the towers. When I defend the alliance towers ill put one toon (4 shaman) looking toward the middle on each side of the bunker (one on the stairs, one next to the flag, and one on each side). This prevents me from being feared or AOEd, gives me total coverage of the flag and people rushing up the stairs and im in range of my totems. I can also get lucky and thunderstorm people out the windows if they attack me from behind.

I hate this because we usually lose, but its a nice change of pace for me. Plan A works much better and ensures things go better for the horde.


Plan C (When im really bored and love forcing a turtle)
This is when i get reallly bored. Ill announce im a quad boxer and want to wipe the alliance at galv. Ill get a few people to go with me and kill the alliance rush and recap. At this point I caused a turtle and the game goes over 30 minutes :D


Plan D
Rush alliance aid station. Usually ill succeed but then the rest of the horde epic fails and im sitting alone untill im eventually killed by port backers.

I just tried your Plan A and it ended up turtling it. Our offense failed and we got nothing. They ended up pushing us so I ran past and killed balinda and destroyed a tower by myself before they won. I'll try it again though, the ppl I played with were retarded.

Heres my AV stats all played in the 61-70 bracket so you can see how much they suck.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...thtony/av2.jpg

It is all about the back cap. Taking back 2 towers forces them to either take down the boss with two marshalls or wait out the new cap timer. 2 Marshalls are easy enough to get down with a somewhat organized group but you rarely have that. There is always some clothie that panics when they get aggro. Instead of just dieing they try and run out. Either that or lack of healing.

I've had some success backcapping IBT and TP. It is a pain running up those towers, and fighting in them, but I can usually win. It's usually 2-3 sub-80 toons in there which die real nice.

pro-tip: you can drop totems on the last level before the top and they will still reach you...this way you are prepared to go right to battle when you entire the flag area.

Also, beware of elemental shaman, they will TS you right off the tower (which I'm sure we all know from personal experience). I always tab through the enemies before I go in to see if one's in there. If so, you gotta juke around and get them to blow that first.

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Originally Posted by BobGnarly

Also, beware of elemental shaman, they will TS you right off the tower (which I'm sure we all know from personal experience). I always tab through the enemies before I go in to see if one's in there. If so, you gotta juke around and get them to blow that first.

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What I do if I"m trying to retake a horde tower, I run in with all 5 shaman to the back of the tower, spam 5 TS and more often than not that will launch at least 1 Ally out of there, I drop 5x magmas and spam chain heals. That's pretty much my strat with groups since I'm only in PvE gear currently.

Being in the Cyclone battlegroup (Alliance side), I wonder if I've ever been in the same AV as you. I've only seen 2 other multiboxing groups horde side. Lately I've been noticing that Horde has been back capping towers more often, which imo has been working well to their advantage, if Alliance isn't keeping a good enough defense. So I've been running back to TP/IBT to help defend once the east/west FW towers are capped.

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spam 5 TS and more often than not that will launch at least 1 Ally out of there

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you can cast TS from behind the tower, and it will go thru the wall and launch someone standing in the opening on the other side off the tower??

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Originally Posted by gitcho

you can cast TS from behind the tower, and it will go thru the wall and launch someone standing in the opening on the other side off the tower??

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No, I just "suicide" run inside to the other side of the flag, and they will be launched out the door :)

And Domineek, I'm on Bonechewer, which is Reckoning BG. I'm the only active boxer that I've seen so far in AV.

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I'm the only active boxer that I've seen so far in AV.

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you mean besides me ... i vote truce until my 5 shamans hit 80 :)

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Originally Posted by gitcho

you mean besides me ... i vote truce until my 5 shamans hit 80 :)

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LoL, I haven't even been in 'the wild' since I started leveling my lowbie shammy in AV. What level are your shammies?

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Originally Posted by Domineek

Being in the Cyclone battlegroup (Alliance side), I wonder if I've ever been in the same AV as you. I've only seen 2 other multiboxing groups horde side. Lately I've been noticing that Horde has been back capping towers more often, which imo has been working well to their advantage, if Alliance isn't keeping a good enough defense. So I've been running back to TP/IBT to help defend once the east/west FW towers are capped.

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I've never seen you boxing AV either. I normally box Alliance Shammies but I do have a Horde set too.

I'm on Reckoning also so you should be seeing me soon as I'm about to hit 71.

Back capping hasn't been possible for me since the alliance all move forward in a group waiting on the towers to burn before moving forward. They don't rush because the games always start out 20 horde to 40 alliance so they just keep 10 or so on defense and thats all they need to wipe the few of us that get split up in bunkers or at balinda. Then they either just win on reinforcements or win outright because horde all get split up and dont accomplish anything.

I've seen 2 other boxers out of about 100 AVs, both horde side. Never seen one on alliance

I'm on Reckoning

Got my fifth shaman to 80 and started trying out AV today. Usually, Alliance freaks-out and gives up if we wipe on galv bc of horde inside with galv. Even with the horde getting a big jump by dowing Belinda on the first try, we ended up winning by a good bit from me just back capping all 4 towers. It just seemed too easy actually....although I know situations are always different.

OK, who all here is horde side on Ruin? It'd be fun to schedule a time and gang up on the poor alliance ;b

Some tips from the Alliance side of things.

1. Let us have FW if we haven't tapped RH. This will cause all the horde deaths to spawn right on top of anyone trying to tap RH. I can't count the number of times that some lowbie gets excited when the guards chase someone else, taps FW, and lands 15 horde on me as I'm getting RH.

2. Skip Balinda. We never defend her. You'd be better off defending Galv since he is a harder fight than Bal anyway. Bonus points for Death Gripping or somehow getting the person with Galv's aggro outside as he will reset. His fear is a constant problem for alliance since tanks always end up feared out the front door. Another upside about not kill Bal first is that Alliance will forget about her. Then if you find the Alliance with less than 100 resources, a quick kill will land you the victory.

3. If you can make it past the archers, take AS then SP GY. This forces Alliance to come from the cave or SH GY. It's better if we have to come from SH since most will just zerg on to Drek instead of heading back to D. The stretch from SH to SP and then AS is a long one and Alliance don't seem to be good at moving in groups, so it's easy to pick off solos.

4. Go under the bridge and then over it. We expect Horde to fight along the road, if you cut across the valley then back up and over the bridge, you can get around most of our first line defense.

5. If you take the road, take the high one that leads to the cave and then jump down into SP GY. Horde has some really good sniping spots on that GY and some well placed DPS can kill rezs before they even know what hit them.

6. Recap TP and IBT! We may tap them first, but the defense is always poor and they are tricky to get into so half the solo players fall off anyway. They are also way too small. One good ret pally turns them into a holy blender. Big whirlwinding Tauren also prove effective.

That's pretty much the main things that come into my mind. Horde has some great defensive choke points that have attackers going uphill into the choke. Use those and you can demoralize an entire team.

Maybe if Horde starts playing to these strengths, Alliance will have to get better and the game will change. I love that about AV, strategy actually matters.

Now give me your secrets!

- Souca -