Cataclysm: The Ret Paladin- AKA Multi-Box Burst PVP Machines.

There was a thread here (dual-boxing), less then a week ago.

It was a link to a youtube video for Power Auras.
You can configure it to display something when you have full charges of Holy Power.
Assuming you make it large/obvious enough to notice on the slave window, you can track full charges of Holy Power.

Approximating the charges can work too.
You can know flat out, you will have at least 3 Holy Power, after doing "x" moves.
Quite frequently, because of procs/specials/etc, you'll have it earlier then this.

But can macro or time your big move accordingly, depending on whether you want highest DPS (use it as soon as each toon is guaranteed to have a full stack) or controlled burst (use move "x" no more then once every 15 seconds, in conjunction with whatever).




*EDIT*
Found it: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost....0&postcount=12

I guess I'll just have to get that team fired up and play with my Power Auras, I would like to have the icons on my main screen, not on my slave windows.

Divine storm change to not require holy power is nice, also in latest beta patch it was changed to 80% weapon damage... which is nice.

Is anyone even using TV in heriocs or for leveling? I find getting all my toons to 3 charges to be a pain, and also a waste of potential when one toon is sitting at 3 charges. This just leaves me constantly using Word of Glory instead since it scales linearly with amount of charges used.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrothelMeister

Is anyone even using TV in heriocs or for leveling? I find getting all my toons to 3 charges to be a pain, and also a waste of potential when one toon is sitting at 3 charges. This just leaves me constantly using Word of Glory instead since it scales linearly with amount of charges used.

---

If at least 3 of your dudes has max holy power it isnt a waste to use TV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shodokan

If at least 3 of your dudes has max holy power it isnt a waste to use TV.

---

Since this thread is already 9 pages, it can't possibly be a waste of time to ask:

Can you throw some numbers up for why you think that 3/4 toons with 3 Holy Power is the right goal to aim for?

Same reason why you want 4 lava burst to land at the same time. PVE doesn't matter.

Its spell landing together at the same time (or in a smallest window possible) that matters. If TV comes out 1 by 1 , it is healable easily.

It is worth the wait to land a 20k crit x 3 or x 4.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remanz

Same reason why you want 4 lava burst to land at the same time. PVE doesn't matter.

Its spell landing together at the same time (or in a smallest window possible) that matters. If TV comes out 1 by 1 , it is healable easily.

It is worth the wait to land a 20k crit x 3 or x 4.

---

Exactly... but it looks like it'll hit higher especially with inquisition.

Are you guys taking Divine Purpose in your ret builds?

As far as I can tell, with the difficulty we are having getting rotations set up and having TV fire off in sync, any dps increase from the procs is probably offset by its unpredicatbility anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noids

Are you guys taking Divine Purpose in your ret builds?

As far as I can tell, with the difficulty we are having getting rotations set up and having TV fire off in sync, any dps increase from the procs is probably offset by its unpredicatbility anyway.

---

From what I see, Divine Purpose would be a spell that you would not plan for, but simply rely on for extra survivability. For those instances when you need to cast a heal right away even tho your pallies aren't at max charge. This talent will just add a little bit more in.

Anyone want to share their key set-ups? Not where each key is on the keyboard, or the letter you bind it to, just how you simplify your set-up to make it more plausible.

-I keep Hammer of Wrath on a Step function in Crusader strike so that every other press fires a Hammer, that way I don't have to watch for when my target goes under 25%.
-Getting exorcism to go off correctly is a pain. Does anyone know for sure if /stopcasting still stops all melee swings, or is macro-ing it in right after the exorcism a good thing? I've just been jumping a lot when I press the exorcism key.
-Since Judgements now do horrible damage, I just have them bound in with my Deathgrip, and try to avoid using them at all except to close distance and keep up the melee haste.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrothelMeister

From what I see, Divine Purpose would be a spell that you would not plan for, but simply rely on for extra survivability. For those instances when you need to cast a heal right away even tho your pallies aren't at max charge. This talent will just add a little bit more in.

Anyone want to share their key set-ups? Not where each key is on the keyboard, or the letter you bind it to, just how you simplify your set-up to make it more plausible.

-I keep Hammer of Wrath on a Step function in Crusader strike so that every other press fires a Hammer, that way I don't have to watch for when my target goes under 25%.
-Getting exorcism to go off correctly is a pain. Does anyone know for sure if /stopcasting still stops all melee swings, or is macro-ing it in right after the exorcism a good thing? I've just been jumping a lot when I press the exorcism key.
-Since Judgements now do horrible damage, I just have them bound in with my Deathgrip, and try to avoid using them at all except to close distance and keep up the melee haste.

---

judgement gives you mana... why would you not want that?

/stopcasting does not stop melee swings, try it yourself with this simple macro

/cast crusader strike
/cast exorcism
/stopcasting

adding hammer of wrath to a /cast after is good way to use it imo as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shodokan

judgement gives you mana... why would you not want that?

/stopcasting does not stop melee swings, try it yourself with this simple macro

/cast crusader strike
/cast exorcism
/stopcasting

adding hammer of wrath to a /cast after is good way to use it imo as well.

---

Well, this happens to be the very reason I don´t play melee.. It does stop melee swings, if your not jumping around like a pinguin trying to fly you will end up casting exorsism for a short time, untill you hit the key again which will cancel it, BUT because of your latency that cancel will eventually give you a short "global cooldown" and theirfor youd lose melee swings compared to a normal rotation..

That is why when I multiboxed my paladin team I used Push/Release option which left me with no interact option
so i used a key for interact, which is in theory the exact same problem...
Push = Jump
Release = Ability

But its kinda crazy looking on 4 glowing two handers flying all over the screen constantly :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selz

Well, this happens to be the very reason I don´t play melee.. It does stop melee swings, if your not jumping around like a pinguin trying to fly you will end up casting exorsism for a short time, untill you hit the key again which will cancel it, BUT because of your latency that cancel will eventually give you a short "global cooldown" and theirfor youd lose melee swings compared to a normal rotation..

That is why when I multiboxed my paladin team I used Push/Release option which left me with no interact option
so i used a key for interact, which is in theory the exact same problem...
Push = Jump
Release = Ability

But its kinda crazy looking on 4 glowing two handers flying all over the screen constantly :)

---

maybe its your latency to the server, not missing any for me except the FIRST time i try it.

It's all good, I just decided to add a spacebar press into my Exorcism Key through ISBoxer, so now I don't have to spam jump every time I want to press exorcism, they (meaning the slaves only) just do it automatically. How can a bunch of glowing 2H weapons flying all over the place be a bad thing anyway? It sure will confuse the hell out of the enemy.

I cannot stand flying pets, as a hunter team, when leveling.
They're in the way, when trying to get a quest npc.

But then they're also in someone's face, when we pvp.
Not that hunters are a team I typically pvp with, but I will do grizzly hills dailies with them for a couple of weeks.

The in the face, chaos, and swarming... is a bonus for us.

Crusader strike gives 300% more healing when you kill something that yields honor or exp.

http://wowtal.com/#k=_mQCe2YT.a8t.paladin.zdFUY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shodokan

Crusader strike gives 300% more healing when you kill something that yields honor or exp.

http://wowtal.com/#k=_mQCe2YT.a8t.paladin.zdFUY

---

Only Holy light has the 300% bonus, and no one will be stopping to cast that lol

Apparently after the change, divine storm shares cool down with Crusader Strike. So, kinda not that useful, unless it gives holy power too, which I am not too sure about

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remanz

Apparently after the change, divine storm shares cool down with Crusader Strike. So, kinda not that useful, unless it gives holy power too, which I am not too sure about

---

40% chance, its meant for AOE, not for single target.

Its either a freebie skill (use when GCD is available) or a useless skill. Sharing CD with CS pretty much means this is near useless in pvp. and I thought the weapon dmg was gonna be 80% , not 60%.

So ya, it is a PVE AOE cleave on trash mobs. not so useful in other situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remanz

Its either a freebie skill (use when GCD is available) or a useless skill. Sharing CD with CS pretty much means this is near useless in pvp. and I thought the weapon dmg was gonna be 80% , not 60%.

So ya, it is a PVE AOE cleave on trash mobs. not so useful in other situations.

---

Not saying it is a saving grace for the comp, but it helps a little.

I thought they had changed it to 80% on Beta which I assume is still a build ahead of live.

Depends on how the 40% chance for HP gen works I guess. If it is on hit then perhaps multiple mobs will give multiple 40% chances for a proc.

The damage is still much lower than CS. I think it's pretty clear we use DS when there's 3+ mobs around us and CS when we're PvP'ing and/or on a single target.

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mosg2

The damage is still much lower than CS. I think it's pretty clear we use DS when there's 3+ mobs around us and CS when we're PvP'ing and/or on a single target.

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

---

We can still cleanse movement impairing effects with a talent... which helps mobility not hurt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mosg2

This changes nothing about the team to me. Without Cleanse this team is just plain not mobile enough for Cata.

---

According to Palee, the only 2k+ DK+4 Ret team last season, since he knew Cata was removing cleanses ability to remove magic, he never even used it.

Since in Cata cleanse will still remove all movement impairing effects, and Hand of freedom can have 100% uptime on the DK, and judgements boost movement speed by 45%, what more mobility are you looking for?

Judgements only boost movement speed when they're 15+ yards away. The Cleanse thing is nice but it doesn't help as much as you think--All you're Cleansing really is the movement impairing stuff on yourself, which means you need to not be CC'd. In their heyday you could Cleanse the rest of the team--I think this is a big point.

I'm interested to see how the WoG healing pans out. On live it's very binary--Full or dead. 4x WoG is like 40-50k in healing with decent gear. The steady trickle healing of DS was niiiiice.

Though, I must admit that I might be looking through my "4 DK" tinted glasses.

This is as good as we can get with melee boxing. if This doesn't work, the melee boxing in pvp is dead. Unless somehow the 5 cats work out, I don't see anything that's better.

I am not too worried about pvp with dk + rets. I do, worried a bit about the initial heroic grind with full melee team that doesn't have a dedicated healer. That might be a pain with all the boss AOEs. I think we need at least the tank to out gear the heroic to be able to do it.

I think that Healer+4 DK's is going to outshine the Rets in every way. 8x Necrotic Strikes every 10 seconds means your target is getting zero healing. They're also getting pummeled with a Mind Freeze every 2.5 seconds.

I'm just saying.

Necrotic Strikes, does it stack ?

I can't imagine this thing would stack if it is indeed that good. It is almost like mortal strike stacking from the old days, 50% than - another 50% after that etc.

Even if it stacks now, I would definitely not invest on 4dk just based on those as I can't see blizzard would let it be.

as for Healer + 4 DK, we are going back to 4 + 1 vs 5 issue again. If i have a healer, I rather box shaman.

I'm running the Paladin main as a healer with the 4 DK's frost. It's insane--And more fun than the DK+Rets ever were for me.

I'm not concerned about whether or not NS stacks--It doesn't make a difference to me. With the way my DPS key works now the target will be getting at least 8x NS in 10 seconds and should never get 4x at once. It should be 1-2, a second or two, 1-2, etc.

I mean, we'll see what happens but... I love this team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mosg2

I'm running the Paladin main as a healer with the 4 DK's frost. It's insane--And more fun than the DK+Rets ever were for me.

I'm not concerned about whether or not NS stacks--It doesn't make a difference to me. With the way my DPS key works now the target will be getting at least 8x NS in 10 seconds and should never get 4x at once. It should be 1-2, a second or two, 1-2, etc.

I mean, we'll see what happens but... I love this team.

---

This is a comp i plan on running as well, any tips?

Dual wield or 2h on the frosties?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noids

Dual wield or 2h on the frosties?

---

2h will be superior in my experience for two reasons.

Reason 1, 2h generates more rune power, which means more rune dumps which help counter act waiting around for runes.

Reason 2, using IWT to keep melees on people isn't the most efficient way, you will spend most of your time NOT on target and as such when your guys do get in range it is more logical to want to use 2h'er to generate the most possible punch every time you do come in contact.

Whether or not 2h or DW is superior in the soloist grand scheme of things is irrelevant for me as I know 2h will work better within the constraints we have.

Optimum DPS for DW is in Frost Presence, 2h'er Unholy... So 2h'er is a given so you get the 15% run speed out of Unholy Presence.

I've been *super busy*. When I get off tonight I'm going to stream my DK manifesto and post it on the forums. I'm tired of following like 3-4 threads with similar questions and ideas :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mercbeast

2h will be superior in my experience for two reasons.

Reason 1, 2h generates more rune power, which means more rune dumps which help counter act waiting around for runes.

Reason 2, using IWT to keep melees on people isn't the most efficient way, you will spend most of your time NOT on target and as such when your guys do get in range it is more logical to want to use 2h'er to generate the most possible punch every time you do come in contact.

Whether or not 2h or DW is superior in the soloist grand scheme of things is irrelevant for me as I know 2h will work better within the constraints we have.

---

I agree that 2H is the way to go, but is 2H still good for Frost?

Seal of Truth or Seal of Righteousness ?? I thought that Seal of Truth's Dot was too weak, and since the ability doesn't do any AoE, and the Judgement is weaker, that it was not as good.

What are you guys running BGs and Dungeons with??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mosg2

Optimum DPS for DW is in Frost Presence, 2h'er Unholy... So 2h'er is a given so you get the 15% run speed out of Unholy Presence.

I've been *super busy*. When I get off tonight I'm going to stream my DK manifesto and post it on the forums. I'm tired of following like 3-4 threads with similar questions and ideas :)

---

With the way you can setup macro system i don't think dual wield outshines 2h frost because of all the extra runic power.

I have BIS dual wield weps for my dk and 2h does about 3k more in raid using heroic bryntroll.

I've never actually pvp enough with unholy or frost dk.

What are their bursts like? Frontal ? or there is ramp up time (like wait for 6-10 seconds to get that 3 holy power up). I am hoping to use my main DK as unholy for the 8% sp buff and AMZ. But when I played unholy, it felt like an affliction warlock in plate, all chip damage.

What rotation do you use for bursting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remanz

I've never actually pvp enough with unholy or frost dk.

What are their bursts like? Frontal ? or there is ramp up time (like wait for 6-10 seconds to get that 3 holy power up). I am hoping to use my main DK as unholy for the 8% sp buff and AMZ. But when I played unholy, it felt like an affliction warlock in plate, all chip damage.

What rotation do you use for bursting.

---

Frost DK looks something like this for me.... at 80

13k howling blast crits
12k frost strike crits
17k obliterate crits

So you can technically get off 4x howling blast + 4x frost strike +2x plague/necrotic strike. or 3x obliterate + 4x frost strike which the frost strikes alone are like up to 50k burst if you crit... and since you get rando crits from killing machines and it resets every target you can be damn sure you are going to do a shitton of burst. So that means a group of 4 dks burst on a target just with frost strikes is close to 100k.

So burst is very very high.

In cata i will probrably be specing into both slowing mechanics and weaving plague strike into things and not always necrotic.


unholy's damage mostly comes from scourge strike, diseases and your death coils, it is very much not a burst spec in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mosg2

Optimum DPS for DW is in Frost Presence, 2h'er Unholy... So 2h'er is a given so you get the 15% run speed out of Unholy Presence.

I've been *super busy*. When I get off tonight I'm going to stream my DK manifesto and post it on the forums. I'm tired of following like 3-4 threads with similar questions and ideas :)

---

Heavy debate on the forums if DW or 2h is actually higher DPS in PvP for frost. The numbers are coming out so close that they are easily within standard deviation of each other. The difference is in how these numbers are achieved. 2h will generate more runic power which allows you to spam more rune dumps.

With DK's for me the issue is keeping on a target using IWT melee spam. It isn't ideal, you run up stop swing run stop swing etc. To me this means that 2h is going to be vastly superior in this application. In unholy stance of course.