Oh and having to eat after most 5 mob trash pulls sucks too =(
edit: forgot to mention slaves have 21k health buffed with kings.
Printable View
Oh and having to eat after most 5 mob trash pulls sucks too =(
edit: forgot to mention slaves have 21k health buffed with kings.
Can you link your armory for your prot and ret spec'd guys...? I'd like to check out your spec, and more importantly your glyphs...Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
When I started, my rets were in the pvp blue crafted set...sad I know! But mana has never been that big an issue for me.
Anyway, some of the following may be "captain obvious" material, but I usually find it's good to make sure you have the basics covered first, and then look at some of other issues in depth....so here goes!
1. DON'T USE SEAL OF COMMAND. It's bad...really bad. Even for PvP (although it's getting a buff next patch). Instead use Seal of Vengeance / Corruption. Once you land a full stack of dots you'll be doing way more DPS than you ever would with Command.
2. Sacred Shield should always be up...ALWAYS! Ok...bit of a no brainer, but its easy to forget to re-apply it. You should also have 2 points in Divine Guardian so SS will last for 60 secs and the damage absorbed is buffed by 20%. Apart from the damage shield, it also gives you a HoT for the same amount healed by FoL over 12 secs, and increases the chance for FoL to crit by 50%. And of course FoL crits proc Sheath of Light (which SS also scales with btw), so you can end up with 2 HoTs going at once for each cast....this spell is AWESOMESAUCE!!
3. Divine Plea - should always be up on your main (if you have 2 points in Guarded By The Light). Use on your rets just before combat ends or inbetween combat (becuase the reduces the effectiveness of your heals by 50%).
4. Judgements - Light / Wisdom / Justice and repeat for whichever two you want to make sure land. Judgements don't stack anymore, so you'll only ever see these three debuffs on the target. Very important to note - while judgements cannot be blocked or parried, they can still miss if you are not hit capped. A missed judgement is VERY bad for rets, becuase you will miss the proc from Judgements of the Wise (which all your rets should have 3 points in), which means missing out on a big chunk of mana back.
5. Generating Threat - Apart from the obvious one of making sure Righteous Fury is active (especially recasting after a wipe) you can get a quick lead on agro by pulling with Hand of Reckoning and immediately following up with Avenger's Shield. Consecration and Hammer of the Righteous (which you should also have glyphed) are essential for group pulls. Shield of Righteousness and Hold Shield for single target threat. Prot pallies spell power is based on strength, so if you're fidning theat is a problem, you can try gemming / enchanting for more strength. A note on Divine Storm - for group pulls divine storm crits can pull adds if used too early. I set my rotation up so that my main gets off consecration and Hammer of the Righteous before Divine Storm gets cast, which lets him get a handy threat lead...
6. Healing - never heal with your main if possible, since when you cast spells, you can't block or parry.
Hope this helps... :)
Cheers,
S.
I use Vengeance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy
Ok for some reason I forget to use this, I'll have to work it in!Quote:
2. Sacred Shield should always be up...ALWAYS! Ok...bit of a no brainer, but its easy to forget to re-apply it. You should also have 2 points in Divine Guardian so SS will last for 60 secs and the damage absorbed is buffed by 20%. Apart from the damage shield, it also gives you a HoT for the same amount healed by FoL over 12 secs, and increases the chance for FoL to crit by 50%. And of course FoL crits proc Sheath of Light (which SS also scales with btw), so you can end up with 2 HoTs going at once for each cast....this spell is AWESOMESAUCE!!
Yep do this.Quote:
3. Divine Plea - should always be up on your main (if you have 2 points in Guarded By The Light). Use on your rets just before combat ends or inbetween combat (becuase the reduces the effectiveness of your heals by 50%).
Yea I do this too, sometimes I wonder if they miss because they are all being cast at the same time and WoW has a problem with it since two judge wisdom to make sure its always up. My guys are very close to hit cap for heroics and I'm working on it.Quote:
4. Judgements - Light / Wisdom / Justice and repeat for whichever two you want to make sure land. Judgements don't stack anymore, so you'll only ever see these three debuffs on the target. Very important to note - while judgements cannot be blocked or parried, they can still miss if you are not hit capped. A missed judgement is VERY bad for rets, becuase you will miss the proc from Judgements of the Wise (which all your rets should have 3 points in), which means missing out on a big chunk of mana back.
Been doing this too.Quote:
5. Generating Threat - Apart from the obvious one of making sure Righteous Fury is active (especially recasting after a wipe) you can get a quick lead on agro by pulling with Hand of Reckoning and immediately following up with Avenger's Shield. Consecration and Hammer of the Righteous (which you should also have glyphed) are essential for group pulls. Shield of Righteousness and Hold Shield for single target threat. Prot pallies spell power is based on strength, so if you're fidning theat is a problem, you can try gemming / enchanting for more strength. A note on Divine Storm - for group pulls divine storm crits can pull adds if used too early. I set my rotation up so that my main gets off consecration and Hammer of the Righteous before Divine Storm gets cast, which lets him get a handy threat lead...
Yep Im aware of this too.Quote:
6. Healing - never heal with your main if possible, since when you cast spells, you can't block or parry.
Tank
Ret Dps
I'll fix the ret's talents to include two more in prot for Sacred Shield and dont pay attention to his rings, boots or belt, lol they are the last upgrades before I consider them okish.
You can go ahead and call me stupid right now. Back in the day (2-4 years ago), casters used to complain that they ran out of mana. I asked them how much spirit they had and they laughed at me and said spirit is useless. I said back, you are the one running out of mana with no spirit, not me. They all wanted crit, spellpower and such. Fine, but if you have enough DPS, maybe you can use some spirit instead.
My idea is 96% of your spells can use either attack power and/or spellpower. So if you put on 2-3 int plate items, you get MP5 (which your is 19, no wonder you have no regen, you literally have 000000 regen). The int never hurts, the SP can be used in your spells and you get MP5 for free. All should help. You can make fun of me having a ret with a few SP items, but I am not the one running out of mana. You can even use a gear manager (built in or Outfitter) to swap out when you need more mana (bosses and such). I use 1 prot, 3 rets and shammy, the mana tide totem is pretty nice. If you are okay on health, you might set up for them to use a mana pot.
Also playstyle might come into play. If you use all your high mana attack all the time, you might not need to do that. Again, if you are okay on enrages or DPS in general, you might just take a few high mana attacks out and only use them when you need them. Just my 2 copper.
Well I seemed to have solved some of the mana problems by using sacred shield. Crit heals heal more and therefore I have to heal less and that means more mana. I no longer have to stop and wait for mana unless I wipe. Oh and one other thing, since we are all paladins my in game combat mana regen is 92, so getting another piece that may have 19 on it seems kinda silly when it will barely help me in doing damage.
P.S. Anyone notice that there are no buyable epic rings with str, sta and crit? Weird.
P.P.S. How are people handling anti melee bosses? Krystallus, Skadi, and that elemental boss come to mind. Kinda ruins being able to farm the daily. Jamba follow isnt helping me much when Im trying to run from my slaves, lol. NONO GET AWAY FROM ME! AAAAAHHHHH!!!
editx3: One thing I forgot to admit, when I first tried Draktheron Heroic I had just bought all my paladins Titansteel Destroyers. I didnt realize there 2h mace skill was 330, so that's why the first few instance runs were so bad. They are just now getting close to 400. And the reason I bought the maces is that no one will let you PuG ToC Heroic with a blue weapon. No one. They will all laugh at you.
I understand where you are coming from, but IMO Prot & Ret pallies should not be running out of mana mid-fights with the correct use of our abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronDF
In combat your Prot main will be getting mana back from 5 main sources:
1. Divine Plea - 25% mana back over 15 secs (refreshed with every swing if you have 2 points in Guarded by The Light) - should always be up
2. Blessing of Sanct - 2% mana back from any dodge, parry or block (helped by holy shield & 3 points in Redoubt) - should always be up.
3. Judgement of Wisdom - chance for 2% base mana back with each hit - should always be up
4. Blessing of Widsom - 92MP5 - should always be up
5. Heals from your rets - with 2 points in Spiritual Attunement you'll be getting 10% of healing received back as mana.
In combat your Rets will be getting mana back from 4 main sources:
1. Judgements - 3 points in judgements of the wise = 25% mana back every 8 secs plus 1% back every 5 secs from replenishment
2. Judgement of Wisdom - chance for 2% base mana back with each hit - should always be up
3. Blessing of Widsom - 92MP5 - should always be up
4. Divine Plea - situationally used becuase it cuts heals by 50% (since your rets are the only ones healing) - I use it whenever it's up outside of combat.
Outside of these, in a pinch you can also use Runic Mana Potions - 4.2-4.4K back (about 75% of mana bar back), and Lay on Hands will give back 1950 mana (about 30% of mana bar back).
Hope this helps...
Cheers,
S.
Glad to see it helped. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
Had a look at your guys - your tank is pretty well geared already, i'd suggest dropping the Spiritual Attunement glyph for the Hammer of the Righteous - it really helps in group pulls. Talent-wise, I picked up Persuit of Justice on my tank (since it's pointless having it on your rets and not your tank), didn't bother with seal of command, and put 4 points into Divinity which makes healing my tank a bit easier.
There is one buyable ring with Stam, Str & Crit...but it's kinda expensive though - www.wowhead.com/?item=Etched Ring of the Kirin Tor :)
Otherwise the best buyable rings for rets are www.wowhead.com/?item=Surge Needle Ring and www.wowhead.com/?item=Greatring of Collision.
Anti melee bosses are difficult thats for sure. I don't use the strobe following in Jamba, only the follow after combat, so I can control the follows in Combat. On bosses that like to whirlwind (Skadi, Gal'darah), or that have directional AoE (Ingvar, Anub'arak) I usually position my guys like so - M = main, B = Boss, A = Alts, both main and alts are facing the boss:
[M]
[B]
[A]
That way when they start to whirlwind I just hit the down arrow, and everyone starts moving backwards, so you end up with:
[M]
[B]
[A] <---now out of Whirlwind range
Both Skadi and Gal'darah are tauntable through their whirlwinds, so if they start going after your alts, taunt them back. When the whirlwind has finished, I hit the 'Interact with Target' key adn the alts run up and start attacking the boss again.
The elemental boss in Gundrak is a major pain in the ass - rotating Divine Sacrifice / Divine Shields are the way to go there. I haven't tried Kystallus yet, will have a crack tonight and let you know how I go.
Just another note about 'Interact with Target' - if you're not using it, you definitely should be. Not only for the situations above, but it is the BEST AOE FEAR RECOVERY WE HAVE. The range on Interact with Target is much much greater than follow, which means after an AOE fear, just hit the mapped key and your guys will all run back (providing there is nothing blocking their way) and start attacking the mob. You don't have to waste time gathering up toons that are out of range of follow. Same for bosses that do knockbacks as well...its pure win for melee classes!
Cheers,
S.
Awesome thread, thanks for all the good info! :)
I recently started a 5 paladin team that just dinged 62-61. So far I've been glancing at Tdogs setup and tried something similar. My biggest issue so far is healing. I read somewhere that ppl suggested VuhDo + ISboxer mouseover regions...
I am atm using innerspace + isboxer, but I haven't been able to find a good guide how to do that, if that now is the best way to heal... atm I've just hotkey'd my slaves to heal the tank and heal self with a modifier. Havent tried the outlands instances, but I doubt that will do.
I use interact with target, I just forget that it works from a long range. Thanks for reminding me, fear bombs in WG were really annoying. Oh and I dont have a problem with trash hitting my rets, so I'll forgo the glyph. I did finish VH for my first heroic completion on my rets yesterday, but I got cocky this morning and didnt do my Divine Sacrifice/Divine Shield rotation and wiped. Sigh.
Oh and SoC on my tank was an accident when I did his talents a long time ago, I just never went back to fix it lol. Maybe tonight I'll take care of that. Oh and the second ring you linked for buyable says BoP on the tooltip ;)
I am having fun with my paladins. I started with TDog's set up. Later I copied Stealthy's macro for /click and saw a nice dps increase. (could have been gear upgrades that were happening at the same time, or just the stopcasting/excorsism part, I'm not sure) My gear is still pretty crappy so there are only a couple of heroics I can clear.
PS. Stealthy I am Horde in the Ruin BG as well, we may meet in a battleground.
Lördnecte
Lördthelryn
Lördantheol
Lörddelaniel
Lördithanas
Yeah don't know what I was thinking when I linked that second ring...what I should have linked was this - www.wowhead.com/?item=Titanium Impact Band. Also there is a blue BoE ring that gives better DPS that many epic rings when gemmed with an epic +str gem - www.wowhead.com/?item=Ring of Scarlet Shadows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
Cheers,
S.
Good to see another Pally boxer on Ruin!Quote:
Originally Posted by mefaircloth
If you're looking for a gear planner, have a look at a program called Rawr (http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr) - its a great tool for comparing gear for either your tank or ret pally, and seeing the potential tanking or dps upgrade, and lets you filter the gear suggestions by source (Heroics, Emblems, PvP, Raids, etc) - i.e. you can get it to display the best tanking gear from Heroics and Emblems only...very handy.
Cheers,
S.
So I pretty much clear the first three bosses in Gundrak, the first boss in DTK, and all of VH. Is there another boss you have found easy to put down Stealthy? I tried Krystallus in HoS and I need to stop jamba follow before that one or he one shots my group during the shatter phase. Other than that I havent tried anything else. Oh and I refuse to do UK. I have probably cleared that dungeon 200 times and I am sick to death of the place.
CoS is pretty easy, just don't worry about the timed run until your rets get geared. All the bosses are pretty much tank n spank. For the last boss, you'll just need to position your rets so that they attack Mal'ganis from behind to avoid the Carrion Swarm (frontal AoE).Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
The rest of DTK shouldnt be too bad...
For the 2nd boss in DTK (Novos), the easy way to do it is to position your guys up against the wall opposite the stairs - you will get mininal adds that way. Once you've killed the 4 shield wardens, refresh sacred shield and run in and engage the boss (make sure you have frost resistance aura up). When Novos starts to cast blizzard have everyone (including the tank) cast FoL on themselves - the heal from FoL and the subsuqent HoT from Sacred Shield should be enough to counter the blizzard. Other than that, its a tank n' spank. Note - Novos drops the best non-epic DPS plate for rets www.wowhead.com/?item=Breastplate of Undeath.
King Dred is optional, but if want to kill him I've found tanking him half way up the stairs reduces the chance of getting adds during the fight. It also reduces the chance your alts will be feared to some place they can't get back from when you press the 'interact with target' button. The tricky part is his Grevious Bite which puts a bleed effect on your tank that can't be dispelled, and will only go away when the tank is healed to full. You can divine shield out of it, or use Lay on Hands if you can't heal throught it.
The last boss is easy - sacred shield negates poison cloud, just spam 1,3 &4 keys (not 2 cuz thats the taunt key :D).
Other than that, the first two bosses of H-AN are pretty easy. First boss is a tank n' spank, Consecration and Divine Storm take care of the swarm adds quite nicely. With the second boss, its a matter of attacking, cleansing the AoE poison, and moving out of the acid clouds (main with alts on follow is fine). There's very little trash in this instance so its an easy 2 emblems.
Hope this helps...
Cheers,
S.
For Dred, you can pull the back 3 raptors out when Dred is on the far side of the tree if you hug the fence. Then you can tank him anywhere and not get an add, ever.
Actually I found The Nexus to be very easy. I thought Kerastrasza would kill my guys due to her having a frontal cone AE, but you can cleanse it. So... lots of cleansing in that fight and she tends to knock people away from her, but it's still a win in the end. I didnt even lose anyone fighting her. I'll have to try AN, I really dont care for DTK anymore either. My route for gearing shaman a long time ago was DTK, Gun, UK, UP and VH. Now I really can't stand to be in any of those instances anymore (especially if they have a lot of trash.)
Wow, CoS was easy! I did get to infinite corrupter at the 5 min mark. So a free mount to my first slave. Malganis turned out to be as easy as he is for my other groups. Love this instance =)
Today the daily was UK and finished it without even dodging the AE from ingvar. Very very easy instance.
I think Im going to give up playing these guys after i get their conquest loot all done. It's difficult to find PuG raids for better weapons and gear, I guess too many paladins on my server. My shaman have an easy time getting in PuG raids while my paladins get grilled about achievements and gear. Makes it really hard to get anything decent.
Plus one other thing I dont like and this is the killer: PVP sucks with the rets. Interact with target is nice, but lag makes them run in odd directions or run to the spot where they are no longer. Melee boxing is just not as nice as nuking from orbit. I can most times kill 3 people before a group rushing my shaman can get to them and seeing their comrades fall makes them backpedal. My rets just dont scare anyone, plus I have to get to people before I can start killing. It's kinda fun to wade into melee, but I really enjoy being a turrent that kills anything within 40 yards. PVP with rets just isnt fun.
Pally for PvE, Dks for PvP. The ability to control the fight (DKs) makes them better for melee PvPQuote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
I just wish that Divine Shield wasnt dispellable. I mean you are already getting hit with -50% damage. Ya, DKs being able to pull people to them makes it a lot easier.
I've found pvp on my pallies to be much better with a (glyphed) Hammer of Justice built into my rotation. The glyph gives it 5 extra yards range (15 yards) which means you can use it proactively on priest / locks before coming into range of thier AoE fears, or on shamans before they can TS. if you've taken the Improved HoJ talent, thats one HoJ every 8 secs, and given that it stuns for 6 secs, thats virtually stunlock on an enemy player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
You've also got repentance every 15 secs (great to use against mages since they can't blick out of it) which is a good spell to cast when running to an enemy player, since it will usually force them to trinket, but by which time you should be in range of HoJ which you can follow up with.
Cheers,
S
Have either of you tried seal of command since 3.2.2 with the chaining it now does Im thinking could be quite good with several paladins at a time doing it. And the patch notes are wrong, they say it procs the chain off of attacks. But the tooltip says it procs off of abilities and attacks. so far Divine Storm and Crusader strike are both confirmed to proc it.
My paladins hit 70 yesterday. I did half of 69 while in Mechanar and Botanica. Botanica was very easy and went smooth.
I dinged at the end of the instance and got the 70 skills. I picked up vengence on my 4 rets. I did some testing in outlands real quick to see which seal was better - vengence or command. I found that command is much better for low health mobs. Unless it was a long battle with a high health boss, vengence cannot hold a candle to command. Not to mention I get 8% mana back when I judge command.
I could see vengence being better on a boss fight where you can actually get 5 stacks going.
I also tried heroic ramps for shits and giggles and could easily see myself clearing that instance. But now that I'm 70 I'll do some quests in northrend and finish netherstorm (never even started it yet!).
Unless you just want to finish outlands for achievements, the quests in Northrend give almost twice the exp and way better loot. Other than " i just want to do all of outland" A player should leave outlands at 68. You have BT and HF starting zones for way better exp and quest rewards.
Ah ok, I figured they might give decent xp in netherstorm still, I haven't done much questing in northrend to remember. Thanks for the info.
I know I saw a post of a post 3.2 ret macro guide ( thought it was click? ) can some one point me to it, my searching has failed me) Or are most using a sequence?
There it is!! Thx!Quote:
Originally Posted by mebben
No problem, using it myself =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonheart
The only advantage of not going to Northrend at 68th is avoiding the collections, a bit more.
With the adjustment of experience needed for Burning Crusade, I usually reach 70th late Blade's Edge or early Netherstorm, with all of Shadowmoon Valley untouched.
I agree, moving to Northrend at 68th is both better gear and more experience per quest.
However, at 80th, the quests in Shadowmoon Valley aren't worth a whole lot of gold.
At 80th, the quests in Icecrown and Storm Peaks are worth a fair bit of gold.
If you're willing to take more time to get to 80th, there will be more gold from quests available.
You could easily hit 71st or 72nd prior to going to Northrend if you did everything in Burning Crusade.
Granted, there will be some annoying collections in Outland which you'll want to pass.
But you'll have the equivalent of a whole zone worth of leveling done before Northrend, which will mean less collections necessary.
I'd personally still go to Northrend at 68th.
I went to Gundrak heroic yesterday with my crew. Had no problems with Sladran, Moorabi or Eck. However, the Drakkari Colossus is mean :( I can get him to second water elemental phase before I die, but that's the best I can do atm. I tried with the +50 resist potions, but I can't say that helped really. The damage you take for all being melee is pretty mean.
Should I just continue to gear up, or am just in need of some good advice? :P
Tank
Ret1
Ret2
Ret3
Ret4
I run my melee team thru this all the time, some general advice tho, set up a master strafé key and do your best to kill the colosus fast. What I do is when fighting the water part just strafe a little bit at a time then spam interact with target , using your heals as much as possible, its basically a kiting motion: dps, move dps move dps move then heal whenever you can, you'll find that you have to pretty much start on one side of the room and strafe crossed it around 2 to 3 times to kill him :)
Ah okay, I'll try that when I get back from work. Thanks for the advice :)
I didnt want to start a new thread for this so I will ask here :)
I just picked up Hand of Freedom on my 4 Pallys so I can try some PvP. I also have the 100% chance to remove stuns when it is cast talent. So now I am trying to come up with a way to get each toon to cast it on the next. So A goes to B, B to C, C to D and D to A. This way I can take advantage of the stun removal. But so far I can only get my guys to cast it on themselves.
I am using ISBoxer and setup a new mapped key, WoW macro action. In a single step I had four /target (next toon in the sequence above) /cast Hand of Freedom. For some reason this made them target themselves and not the toon in the macro... I tried a few other things to no avail.
So does anyone have any ideas or will I just have to have each toon cast it on himself?
Well, if you make a Keymap with a hotkey of choice.
It sends the hotkey to each wow client.
Target can be every pally client.
Then within warcraft create macro's.
Put them on the same keybind as the hotkey.
Each pally will have:
#show Hand of Freedom
/cast [target=Next Pally] Hand of Freedom
Not really sure how to make it work with ISBoxer - wow macro actions.
Have not had much success (read haven't played with them much) yet.
But with the keystroke type action and a wow macro, pretty easy to get your desired result.
I cleared my first northrend instance yesterday - Utgarde. Level 71 pallies. I remember trying this on my PVE team (71) and they failed on the first boss, and not even trash was that easy.
I almost cleared Nexus, I know I can down the dragon just from reading the info on thottbot, but I couldn't get past Grand Magus Telestra, she was EVIL! Anyone have tips for her? I was like "what the hell is going on" the entire (short) fight, then my characters faces just melted instantly.
Do any of you run into this annoyance: when you're trying to turn a boss a certain way, but they keep moving too much?
Skip to about 1:14 in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhHFs6FzZOQ
It takes me several tries to position ingvar. It was really annoying. Kinda reminds me of when my hunter pets would randomly drag mobs all over the freaking place before settling for one spot.
Yeah I run into it all the time. I don't know if this is 100% workaround but I find that if I strafe left or right while using W and/or S the boss is less likely to do the dance with me and they will move to where I want them.. If I just use strafe alone or my forward or backward key they will move away from where I am trying to position them.
I know what you mean though I always try to position my guys next to a pillar and to the right or left of ingvar and me out in the open. That way I always eat his twirling axe of death and my pallies are safe. He doesn't always like to throw his axe against a pillar.. Not always the case though as sometimes he does and I wipe or have to blow my shields.
How much the mobs "bounce" around when you move seems to be entirely dependent on your connection latency. I rarely have this problem in instances but it happens fairly often out in populated zones.