you need 50% haste or roughly 6400 haste rating (1% haste equals 128 haste in cata)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
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you need 50% haste or roughly 6400 haste rating (1% haste equals 128 haste in cata)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
So basically, not going to happen...
But thanks for the number.
Pretty much play the game if its fun.
And if they kill all the fun compositions then quit or find another game.
Honestly, not even sure why I'm playing Warcraft at the moment.
All I do is log in to arena once a week, for the Conquest points.
I don't even like arena.
Just to have the best gear possible, to destroy in battlegrounds which I don't often do now that there aren't upgrades there.
Ironic.
Time to start (yet) another team. TTSYAT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
Doubt that a 1.5s cast kills the comp to box. Nor will it be a valid enough reason to favor haste over mastery with the current haste values.
cast time / % haste / haste rating
1.4s/ 7.1% / 914
1.3s/15.4%/1969
1.2s/25%/3200
1.1s/36.4%/4654
1.0s/50%/6400
Not saying mastery > haste in 4.2, but the hungering cold nerf alone will not be reason enough I guess.
Besides, it was a much needed nerf for retardedly OP frost dk's.
Most of the time in Arena, straight Howling Blast spam with the odd Death Grip is all that is necessary.
With four DK's focused on one target, HB spam has been far more successful than my Obliterate rotation.
The Obliterate sequence is much more successful in 2's.
But that is a different game, with Chains of Ice to root (which I don't use in 5's).
Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Frost
Hungering Cold now has a 1.5-second cast time.
Glyphs
Glyph of Dark Succor has been redesigned. Rather than placing a 15% maximum health floor on Death Strike healing while in Frost or Unholy Presence, it causes the next Death Strike within 15 seconds after killing a foe that yields experience or Honor Points to heal for at least 20% of the death knight's maximum health..
This just was posted as the Official 4.2 PTR notes for 5/26
The glyph change is completely bogus - makes Death Strike completely useless now for Frost and Unholy. Frost survivability is already low.
I can't tell you how many times I'm won arena matches solely due surviving longer with Death Strike. Arrrgh.
Glyph + HC cast + reduced dmg = ouch
the glyph is a complete joke and unnecessary
they fucked whole frost spec up with making permanent dead runes, now they keep that mechanic and nerf the hell out of frost, the problem is tmho that a frost dk doesn't even have to watch/time runes, its just button mashing and there is always something available that hurts on an insane short gcd. they could make frost presence more attractive for 2H, because up until now you had a killing machine that could never run out of power with decent self healing that had a ton of control over the enemy.
Clearly we dance between our DKs and Shamans depending on who is nerfed and who is buffed lols.
This is what really makes me sick of WoW. The constant nerfbat swinging at anything that isn't a Warrior...
Or a Mage.
So what group do think would be most viable in 4.2?
Elemental shamans?
Enhancement shamans?
Ret paladins?
Other?
Ret went back to pre 4.0.6. It is not stronger. Just got WOG heals back and more cleave. It still has that 15 -20 second ramp up time on burst. (1st 3 HP to get Zealotry). So I would rank it the same as DKs.
Also when you consider teams, I think you have to separate 4 box and 5 box. If you play 4 where you focus mainly on offense, Elemental Shamans / Warriors (Yes Warriors) are my top picks.
If you box 5, DK + 4 Rets is my top pick. Enhance is althought very strong in offense, don't have a root breaker so it is a no go.
I'm still not too sure about the viability of ele shamans in 4.2 in pvp, definitely not when boxing. Blizzard tried to make up their weak defence by giving them a few new offensive abilities. That doesn't change the fact that we still die in a couple of globals. One rogue can easily kill 1 shamy on his own. That and the retarded lockout periods of your nature spells. Ghostwolf, thunderstorm, heals, ... are all nature based spells.
Even if Dark Succor changes, so its basically useless...
And Hungering Cold is given a cast time longer than our GCD... let's say it was subject to interrupts which locked out the Frost school even, so was not part of our rotation often.
All of which would suck...
The DK team still has a 30 yard range / 10 yard radius Howling Blast attack.
This is a cleaving attack, which applies Snare to anyone hit.
With Death/Frost Runes, we have four uses every 10 seconds, plus extra attacks as runes are restored by Frost Strikes.
We still have the option for Obliterate to focus fire a single target.
Not having Hungering Cold to CC the other targets would suck...
But this is still the option to focus-fire burst a kill target vs the cleaving attack that applies snare.
The team has defensive cooldowns, essentially for an opening which cannot be interrupted.
Death Grip is immunity to root, which most other compositions do not have.
Lichborne with Escape Artist, is a second trinket vs Fear/Charm/Sleep/Root.
The kill target is subject to Mind Freezes every 2.5 seconds.
We can Strangulate (4x Round-Robin on 1x Healer or 2x Round-Robin on 2x Healers).
Dark Sim can make a really hurting opponent hesitant to give our DK's a very powerful defensive effect.
I'd think the Healer + 4x Frost DK's is still a top team.
This. It's just less overpowered now, it's no longer the A-team with rocky, rambo, schwarznegger and mcgyver, but it's still an A-team that is hard to counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
well DKs will be right up there still. But how fast do stuff die these days. Full reslienced target with 4 dps beating on it. If it takes longer than the anti magic shell duration (which is like 5 not glphyed), then it is not looking too good. Not to mention you might not have 4 dps beating on it, DKs don't have a fear breaker once feared. So if you trinket the ring of frost, eating a full duration fear means game over.
I think the Healer+4 DK's is still your best bet for a 5's team, though Healer+4 Warriors and DK+4 Rets are close. The problem with the Warriors and Rets is that you don't have any defensive immunities that really destroy people. With the DK's you can Deathgrip while you have IBF, Lichborne and AMS up--Which makes you basically immune to every CC (except disarm) for 7-12 seconds. It's enough time to force a kill if you splash blanket Strangulate their team.
The Warriors will Charge-->Recklesness-->Brostorm. The damage from 4x Warriors would be insane--The problem is that once Brostorm is on cooldown you're much more easily kited and CC'd than the DK's or the Rets.
The Rets do take that ramp-up time before they're doing maximum DPS but being able to remove snares/roots from yourself is pretty amazing. If Wings makes it off the PTR being undispellable and not spell stealable... Yeah, they'll probably be worth it, especially with 10 sec WoG.
I think the problem with the Shaman team is still mana/survivability. Blizz really pushed for all of the caster DPS specs to not be able to offheal at all basically. That neuters the Shaman imo~.
Edit: @remanz: Lichborne is 12 seconds of fear immunity and can be used once feared.
My bad, forgot about that. LB is the answer.
DK has as many defensive CD as it gets. I really want a stun / knock down to keep my target there. and Warriors should have the best burst. Also it can shatter bubble or iceblock. So charge => deadly calm => knock down => reckenless => bladestorm. If you go immue, I can shatter you. With the way HP, Damage and Heals work, I don't see any healers can heal back damage very quickly. Once you are low, it takes time to bring your HP back. So the shattering throw might be just what we need to kill it.
I've seen and played DKs and Rets at their primes. They are both viable and good. But neither have answer to immunities, bubble / bop/ iceblock etc. I am going for warriors this time.
warrior team sounds interesting, i'm just afraid that 1 frost mage can totally lock the team outQuote:
Originally Posted by remanz
maybe one of the options is to get 1 dk who can deathgrip
4.2 I'm prob going to swap out a DK for a war so 3dk war + heals
The problem with Shattering Throw is that it has a cast time. It's great in theory, but...
It works if you macro it correctly. I almost have it working 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
Plus warriors just straight up do more damage.
There was also talk of increasing Mortal Strike effects back up to 25% which gives warrior another bonus.
I just don't think you're going to kill someone in a Brostorm and then you're just going to get kited.
Then don't run 4 warriors. Run rogue/warrior/dk/hunter if you can find a way to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
warrios just have 6 sec cc immunity each 90 seconds, nothing compared to dks
another bad thing, once they use recklessness they eat 20% more damage for 12 seconds and cant use shieldwall in those 12 secs even you cancelaura it.If you use shieldwall on one warrior for defensive he does almost no damage while dks dont lose any dps when activating ibf. Every time you switch to another target you should rend/hamstring - costs one and a half global cd doing zero damage.
Then you have only 1 charge each 11 sec ... much more worse than 4x deathgrip
so you can kill something withing reck+bladestorm, but I cant imagine quad warrior+ heal wins vs any good team at 4v5, your getting frost nova / ring or hungering cold/feared (yes warriors can be feared once berserker runs out you have zero fear protection for another 20 seconds) while they kill your healer
i.e any 5s team with a priest and pally can outlast your recklessness, the target gets bop and/or lifegripped so it would be better to not use 4x reck at the same time
ofc it could work as long as all 5 opponents stay close together so they die within a bladestorm - means 1600-1700 should be possible
overall the quad warrior team is just a weaker edition of the dk team
So this is a boxing composition that would do well against other melee cleave teams boxed, but not necessarily as well as some of the other boxing teams when playing against typical 5's compositions.
I'd rather go with 4 rogues than with 4 warriors. All the other team needs is a frost mage and a pally/priest healer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toned
thinking about the same i like the dps of the DeathKight but i feel i could have something with a lot of burst warrors seems to have more of a buest then DeathKights, hey i got killed but 5 today.... but like others have said soon as your CCed it be worse then the DeathKights CCed
If i get a warrior to 85 ill try it in the group and go from there maybe even 2 warrior 2 DeathKights (but that might get massey)
Mosg started this Group up so i love to hear what plans his got for the group.. Maybe hunters are still that group thats seems to have the buest? (how are your hunters Mosg?)
Bladestorm can be used as a snare/root breaker where anti magic shell has to be used primitively. Warriors ain't what it used to be in terms of defensive CDs. Shield wall can't match up against IBF, but It has Enraged Regeneration, which is really good (simply pop zerker rage for 30% full hp regen). Also if CCed, warrior regen health as well. Deathgrip is better than charge. But DKs don't have a stun/knock down to keep the target there. Charge stun+ knock down should be just as effective as Deathgrip if not more. Problem with DK is that once gripped, my target can still get a step on me and keep at mid instance where I can't grip him and melee attacks won't reach him. 50% snare is not good enough without a stun. I don't have this problem with DK + Rets, as my target was stunned mid air after the DG. All DKs, I get kited again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4
i.e. With DKs, I beat on the shaman in wolf form. DG him. Pallly freedom on the shaman. I get to hit the shaman a few (won't kill him cuz earth shield , spirit totem etc). Now shaman can run away as I am in earthbind and he has freedom. You can really see where the stun would help here.
The main thing I am looking for is to sacrifice D to gain more burst. Still melee zerg, and warriors are not better than the DKs or even Rets overall. DKs and Rets are just more rounded, complete packaged where warriors are more straight offense. Its a simple question of within 3-5 seconds, which class can land the fattest combo to kill the target. If the target pop immunity, shatter it. and that gives warrior
thing is you get cc'd to hell after bladestorm and I dont think reck+bladestorm is always a guaranteed kill, any good team is going to kite the warriors and kill the healer within a counterspell
with dks you can always strangulate/huntering cold / arena 1-4/5 icy chains/deathgrip to protect your healer and doing a lot more perssure because you can be immune to all sorts of cc (except disarm) for a ridiculous amount of time
sure I would be suprised if anyone gets 2k+ with quad warrior/heal but doubt this is going to happen (with the current state of warriors)
perhaps 4x prot lol
2x blood dk, prot warrior, resto shaman & resto druidQuote:
Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4
goal: gladiator by boring your opponents to dead, full time job
how far a team can go is more depedenting on who is behind the keyboard rather than the class combo (between dks and warriors).
Chance is always there. Back in the days when everyone was playing shamans/paladins, my friend actually played 5 druids and star fall + typhoon his way to 2k ratings.
I think both teams could be 2k + if you only play 4, and have a good healer with you. DKs can protect the healer more is a good point though.
5 warriors are at like 2k, but with recklessness not being able to be used with deadly calm.. i'm not sure how good warriors will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4
DK
- Unholy Might now increases Strength by 10% 20%, up from 5%.
Balance
- Starfire damage has been increased by approximately 23%.
- Wrath damage has been increased by approximately 23%.
guess what's gonna happen ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenga
nope?
Those changes are insane...
ppl are gonna be boxing with moonkins....Quote:
Originally Posted by zenga
I'm not gonna hold my breath on the balance druids. They are gonna need a little more to be competitive damage-wise with DK teams.