Word of Glory is the new instant heal. Instant cast, off gcd, costs no mana. scales with AP or SP
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Word of Glory is the new instant heal. Instant cast, off gcd, costs no mana. scales with AP or SP
Cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
They basically made Rets a frost DK rotation wise.
0.0 Crusader Strike
1.5 Judgement
3.0 Crusader Strike
4.5 Exorcism
6.0 Crusader Strike
7.5 Inquisition
9.0 Crusader Strike
10.5 Judgement
12.0 Crusader Strike
13.5 Exorcism
15.0 Crusader Strike
16.5 Templar's Verdict
Replace with DK frost rotation and its virtually the same.
I guess so yes, as far as single target rotations go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Tire
Is this usable by rets too? I thought this was holy only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
I hope paladins will have a sort of instant heal like the one from Art of War procs otherwise the DK+rets comp is dead not just in pvp, but in pve too.
It's not a talent nor a level 10 ability for holy at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstcow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Tire
Not looking good. How is the HP pool vs healing going for beta.
200k HP at lvl 85 and holy light still heals for 15k on crit ?
I think the 200k HP poor alone will create problems for us as we are relying on burst down before getting CCed. In cata, they will just have a lot more time to CC my paladins. and I lost the bloody cleanse too.
For pvp gear you can expect around 75k life.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Don't forget that resilience DOES NOT reduce critical strike chance against you anymore. So if you have 30+% chance to crit you will get it much more now.
So far i have come up with this list
Pros
-175% weapon damage attack @ 1 second cooldown
-Unlimited target divine storm @ 90% weapon damage (3 holy)
-Instant cast, not on GCD, no mana heal (costs holy power, based on AP and SP)
-More damage for seal, auto-hits multiple targets... no more choosing between command and righteousness. Also 100% chance to do 15% extra weapon damage per swing.
-Wings = gives you 4 hammer of wraths before its over no matter their HP
-New 275% weapon damage attack
-9 second exorcism which art of war should have up at all times, talented gives it a lot more damage
-KICK! Healers cannot just free-heal on us after we use our silence and ccs
-Zealotry when fixed (it is a 3 min cooldown according to a GM friend of mine, 30 is a mistype) will provide a TON of burst.
-Crusader strike gets an inherent extra 15% crit chance!
-Rumor has it that holy wrath will work on humanoids as well in cata... meaning another stun.
-Healing hands (yes it costs a lot of mana but it heals pretty well and does stack at least as of now)
-Talented word of glory gets another 12% chance to crit
-Actually can effectively get a 20 second reduction on hammer of justice
-20% melee haste for party
-We actually basically get a rotation...even for pvp!
Cons
-No more instant cast holy light from art of war
-20% base damage for divine storm so less passive healing
-Increased cooldown on healing hands to 1 minuet.
-We don't really use exorcism as it is...so why are they making it so accessable? Not like it slows or shackles or anything.
-No more instant 25% base mana from judgments while we have Judgments of the Wise
-Have to watch multiple sets of "holy power" as one of ret's new level 10 abilities gives melee attacks a chance to generate 1 holy power. (15% chance right now iirc)
-Divine guardian is out of reach of us so no more reduced damage for the party
Is there a cooldown on this heal? Or it is usable any time you have at least one stack of holy power? If this is the case, then this is much much better even than art of war procs, because Crusader Strike always adds a stack of holy power, it's not a chance right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
yes free cost instant cast heal, that heals for 1590 max minus crits
Exorcism is one of those abilities that will be used a TON now. Its ranged it hits HARD, and its usually an instant cast (it procs a ton), Mana will be a problem but if we use seal of the wise(the combo of wisdom and light) we should be okay.
After playin on the beta for about 30 minutes with one pally i see things for us being RETARDEDLY GOOD. The holy power thing is STUPID easy to track, and it is a super duper way to deal a TON of dmg, a TON of healing, or a TON of aoe. Everyone who had previously been freaking out can relax some now, because things are looking great! :) i hope they dont change shit from the way it is now because its pretty incredible :D
1590 max minus crits? Thats lower than it was when i checked it the other day. Non crit would mean we would get heals for about 7k... which is chicken shit heals for 75k life.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
thats 1475 to 1590 ish, PER holy power stack. so yea around 7k ... maybe more. Hard to say if it will be good or not, but it has no mana cost and its instant and free off the gcd. I think we'll have to see, but it is better than nothing imo
Ooh... so 5k non crit... 10k crit... thats not bad... 1/5 of your health averageQuote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
basically what flash heal would have been if they did a new rank for Cata?
Eh from how it looks its better than flash heal, because its was a mana hog, now we hade two instant heals, this one AND holy shock, plus the other various tools at our disposal. I like what they did so far, and at this point I'm not too sure the other classes in the game are worth playing lol
holy shock is holy onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
Ehh as of RIGHT now, all pallys have holy shock. This may be a big bug as with the other mastery things in beta tho :)
I know we have it still, but its a bug that is getting fixed. It's still trainable at 40, but SHOULD be only for holy unless they changed their mind again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
Holy shock's mana cost isn't worth the heal anyway.
My current talent builds:
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=_ZsRnz2_.9q4.paladin
http://www.wowtal.com/#k=tw8-_yeOi.9q4.deathknight
meh you're right, tho theres a new beta build tonite and things have changed rather quickly yet again.. I see a buncha new stuff and OMG looks like fun! :D
wings + cs > templars verdict spam = LMFAOQuote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
Lol you pop zealotry after 3 cs and then spam one and one :) the burst is good! Did you see the new dk stuff omg!
So yea, no more paladin heals might turn this comp into a 5 Dk team instead.
Are you on crack?Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothelMeister
As it stands right now the new paladin heal heals for 10k crit untalented (approximately a holy light), with talents it is another 90% (so [(10000*1.3) * 1.6] = about 20k per toon... when healing others and about 15k when healing themself (as it is now, with no scaling of AP which it actually does)
this is OFF GCD, COSTS NO MANA.
Just because we cannot spam a heal does not make the team bad when it does so much healing. We still have healing hands as well.
Considering most of our competitive play will be in BGS this is a GOOD THING. Especially with the amount of burst we are getting. If we still had it for flash of light we'd be oom in like 3 heals.
5x dk team would still not be too great, you'd have no heals with that team anyway, because if you go blood your damage will be shit.
My only concern is they removed imp crusder strike. So does that mean Crusader Strike is now on a 4 sec CD? That goes back to having to wait 8-12 seconds for 3 stacks of holy power.
just found this FYI, so yeah, building up to 3 holy power will be 9 or 12 secs.
We have been trying Crusader Strike out at both 3 seconds and 4 seconds to see what fits the best. At the moment it is 3 sec (talented) for Ret and 4 sec for Prot and Holy. It all depends on how many other things are going on that you have to juggle. Inquisition, Zealotry and Exorcism and Divine Purpose procs in addition to the basics of CS, TV and Judgement with Holy Wrath filling in any holes can add up to a lot.
While we definitely want Ret to have an actual rotation in the sense that you aren't just hitting things when they come off of cooldown, we don't want to make it more complex than the other dps specs in the game. :) [ Post edited by Ghostcrawler ]
Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer
Well, I guess it all depends how fast a paladin can be blown up when /trained by multiple enemies. If he can die in less than 9 seconds then I guess there won't be enough healing.
This is also the weakness of the enhance shaman, Maelstrom Weapon needs a whooping 5 stacks until Healing Wave becomes instant. And an enhance shaman is much weaker than a paladin at survival.
Anyway, this whole "Let's design the talents and ask for feedback" approach is really starting to annoy me. It only pisses people off or makes them feel very excited only to bring the nerf bat and piss them off again.
I'm going to ignore all changes until cata releases and then I'll decide what to play.
Shaman will always be viable, they had three moves in BC and were fine, they will continue to be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstcow
They changed word of glory again to no longer be a spammable free heal, you can't use it until you have at least 1 holy power, making this team roughly equivalent to a dk with death strike imo. It will be fun to play the pallys still but IMHO it will need to get far better or we're doa lol
The passive healing and mana generation from the seal of the wise now is very strong, proccing heals for around 1900 every couple seconds
I didn't even expect word of glory to be spammable without at least one stack of holy power, just like you can't cast instant flash of light today without first proc-ing art of war, so if you think about it, crusader strike will guarantee a stack of holy power, you won't have to rely on crits to proc it. But if they keep Crusader Strike on a 3-4 sec CD then the viability of the group is questionable, but we still have to wait for retail until we can say for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
According to one of the game masters in my guild... most of the talent trees are pretty finalized unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstcow
We are going to be relying on mana regen too much IMO. I mean the mana required for a 1.5 second heal is A LOT. But it will heal for a shitton if it crits... As it stands now non crit it's like 5k per toon... which is about 10k crit. So thats around 40k healing from a single heal if sacred shield is up. I think that this coupled with the power word glory heal will make this team still VIABLE for battle grounds PVP, but certainly NOT PVE.
So it will take us 4-12 seconds to get extra instant heals
Non talented
Non crit
1 holy power = 1294 to 1440
2 holy power = 2588 to 2880
3 holy power = 3882 to 4320
Talented to others
Non crit
1 holy power = 2440 to 3174
2 holy power = 4880 to 6348
3 holy power = 7320 to 9522
Crit baseline (not counting the crit, just what WILL crit)
1 holy power = 2733 to 3555
2 holy power = 5466 to 7110
3 holy power = 8199 to 10665
Crit would actually be
1 holy power = 4100 to 5332
2 holy power = 8199 to 10665
3 holy power = 12299 to 15996
Keep in mind blue post stated they plan on reducing the cooldown of crusader strike to 3 seconds. This means that every 10 seconds you get basically a full heal on any toon in your group, every 6 seconds 1/2, and every 3 seconds 1/4. With the damage output and such it shouldn't be hard. Especially in rated BGS if you have a resto healer with you.
This is all before sp or ap increases. If you ask me thats not bad... every 3 seconds you get about 1/5 of X toon's life. + healing hands + holy light after raping people.
PVP it will be very viable, but as i said before, PVE will no longer work because you have to choose between things. We also don't know anything about glyphs... there could be a glyph of art of war that makes holy light instant cast in the future we never know.
I'd also like to state... healing hands... this will heal us a total of 27k PER TOON, not taking extra healing into consideration or crit. This is every 30 seconds. If you combine this with the avenging wrath cooldown it does 20% more... so ~33k. This is BEFORE any spell power coefficients.
All information stated above does not take spell power or attack power for additional healing potential
PVP wise this team looks OP as hell.
yea, its still workable, and spamming divine storm, while mana intensive, is highly unfavorable due to it hitting for shit amounts but the heal is manageble. If you hit enough targets with divine storm with 0 holy power you have a pretty high chance of getting 3 stacks(it procs per target hit) and the heal wont keep you up that much. the healing/mana regen seal works good for staying alive while soloing, but in pvp i doubt this team will be the powerhouse it was.
Its sad, and i honestly think either they change the word of glory to scale with attackpower via spellpower(as currently it does not) or make it spammable for the weakest amount. i haven't seen healing hands yet, as my pally isn't that high until later tonite, but i might have to say if that doesn't heal for obscene amounts when stacked then we're going to be looking at all leveling 5 priests for fun in pvp soon lol.
Don't get me wrong when i say all of the above. I HIGHLY doubt they're gonna be as good in pvp... but then again im pretty sure EVERYONE will feel the pain. I'm anxious to see some stuff pan out with the cooldown on crusader strike. i've found when playing with it, if you open with divine storm on a group you can potentially proc multiple stacks or even just one stack of holy power. Then pop a crusader strike and you're up to 2 +. Its all moot till they finish everything :D
My friend and i are both 83 on beta... healing hands stacks. Last time i checked it crit as well. It's a 1 min cooldown but it heals for quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
If divine storm acts like you say it does and it is 20% wep damage attack that generates holy power... thats pretty sexy.
Viability of ALL multi-box teams are much much lower. Shaman do near no healing with chain heal now and that was the major way they healed in bgs and such.
hmm :) quick response, what server are you on atm? Im plaing my pally palinne on lost isle, also have my druid at 82 named moocrewB
GilQuote:
Originally Posted by ghonosyph
huh why are we keep focusing on paladin's healing.
dk + 4 rets
as of today, win without needing to heal much. The healing numbers might seem high in those arena reports. Those were mainly from divine storm damage and "cleaning up phase".
If you heal, unless it is a cleaning up phase, you are not going to win. DK + 4rets had no back and forth. Once you start healing, you don't come back. you are stuck at healing until you die. It was more of a "I eat your damage while dishing out much more damage" to win.
I am more interested in paladin's damage vs healer's healing. Today a holy paladin can out heal 4 dps damage for a while. After down scaling, in cata, can a single healer out heal 3 dps' damage? or 2 ? How long does it take for a couple paladins to bring down a healer if I let you free cast healing. If he goes down in like 5 seconds, then we are in good shape. If he heals until OOM, then we are doomed.
They cant free cast, we have kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
I think it is the same old question. If I can effectively control 2 healers, I am on my way to 2200 in arena. In reality, I can barely control the one I am hitting on.
So letting him free cast it was more of a real world simulation. Where in actual fight, I might not have all my toons hitting on him or there might be a 2nd healer.
edit: no dispel seems like a game over
Fear is going to not last as long in cata m8.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
I rarely use chain heal ever, LHW is way better imhoQuote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
that costs 27% of your base mana, good luck using that successfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabu42