Nice picture, lol.
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Nice picture, lol.
Very much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidesspyder
Thanks for the support guys. I'll be starting on monday with quests in azeroth.
Just got 5 copies of battle chest for 130$ including tax
Armory links?
A tad off topic I know but
reminds me ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Fursphere
Malone: Why do you want to join the force?
George Stone: To protect the property and citizenry of...
Malone: Ah, don't waste my time with that bullshit. Where you from, Stone?
George Stone: I'm from the south-side.
Malone: Stone. George Stone. That's your name? What's your real name?
George Stone: That is my real name.
Malone: Nah. What was it before you changed it?
George Stone: Giuseppe Petri.
Malone: Ah, I knew it. That's all you need, one thieving wop on the team.
George Stone: Hey, what's that you say?
Malone: I said that you're a lying member of a no good race.
[He cuffs Stone across the face. As he draws back his arm again, Stone presses a gun under his chin]
George Stone: Much better than you, you stinking Irish pig.
Malone: Oh, I like him.
:P anyway, GL Shodokan
Temporary problem... new computer wont be in till january 15th... so i am going to level 4x dks to 80 just for the gold since this computer can't even handle 5 copies of the game running @ 15 fps
Dont you need 4x lv 55+ characters on the account? I thought you just bought your chests?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
Edit: doh my bad, I see you posted that the 18th, armory links!
I'll post armory links once my first group hits 60 tomorrow.
edit: I have too much crap to do today-tomorrow so i will not hit 60 till saturday or sunday
EDIT I GET MY COMPUTER MONDAY!!!! IT SHIPPED TODAY!!!
I got my computer
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4176/img0722i.jpg
Now the fun begins.
Is that the bed where the magic happens? Needs more tiger skin covers /wink
*wonders what that thing is peeking out under the pillow*
That's my CRT TV remote, i left my 42" sony bravia @ school for my roomate (hes staying there over break)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_Jones
jeez ur observant... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_Jones
and ur pillow looks a little yellow.. whats going on there?
LOLALIENWARE! Get a real computer.
Oh, and learn to resize. Not all of us like to rely on the forums doing things for us. Some of us like to do our own work, kapish?
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/512/dscf7467edit.jpg
Enough spam.
Kinda repeat but.....
Armory!
I see a bunch of characters in your sig can I check them out yo:cool:? Takes like 5 mins, and the whole point to making this thread is to keep track of your progress eh?
Also lets get a shot of the whole setup ie. monitor mouse and keyboard etc.
There's a lot of hate in this entire thread. I don't know if its a inside joke, just poking fun, or its well deserved. I do get the impression Shodokan is just looking for some respect and feel equally a part of this boxing community. Unfortunately, threads alone will not keep anyone at that level.
A common view that runs through these forums is that its expected an experienced/respected boxer is able to hold his own (characters, software, & hardware knowledge), do his research on anything new or not understood, and over time have something to show for it. And its okay to ask questions or bounce theories around, as long as its posted in an intelligent manner. ("Whatz R the macros 4?" = forum beating)
Things I've read in this thread that made me feel like Shodokan will succeed: Able to get the software and hardware to play, and has thought out a leveling plan (and able to revise that plan as the situation changes).
Things I've read that make me think burnout or boredom will stop the adventure: Software and Hardware weren't secured by self-means (another party helped pay majority of the cost, means the financial value doesn't exist), the trophy picture on the bed (keeping a collection of progress from scratch is good, but using a bed for the setup screams 'high school weekend project').
Shodokan I hope you do succeed in multiboxing, but if you're goal is the be the best of the best, in game and out... it will take a lot of time and effort. If you're goal is to enjoy the uniqueness of this community & boxing, only wanting to be a part of it all - you're already there, just keep at it and have fun.
Nice setup. I see you have and xkeys pro. Can you zoom out that pic so we can see the rest of your setup?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajuuk
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5579/dscf7436e.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Drommon
Sadly I hardly ever use my Xkeys nowadays. :(
YO. MR WIGGLESWORTH AKA SHADOKEN. GIVE MORE BLOGGISHNESS IN BLOG THREAD, PLOX.
Quote:
There's a lot of hate in this entire thread. I don't know if its a inside joke, just poking fun, or its well deserved.
I hold little respect for a person that doesn't pay for their own stuff. (Debt is allowed, but going out and saying "DADDY! I WANTS DIS *holds up two thousand dollar computer* BUYS IT FOR ME PLOX! KTHX!" is not kosher for me)
wow you need a hug... seriously. You know you want one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajuuk
@sajuuk
- Be Nice http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/smilies/smile.gif (Includes you wilbur :P) be nice to each other and respect the authority of Moderators and specialist staff.
from the rules. ive had them quoted to me once by a very important person on these boards. just quit being a jerk and ignore this thread if you dont like it. youre ruining the experience for the people who just want to read it.
Nice setup Sajuuk. What kind of monitors are those?
Dell P2310H's. They're one of the less expensive monitors with onboard Displayport...I didn't want to bother with getting an adapter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drommon
loldisplayports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajuuk
I don't consider myself to be 'behind the times' or anything but like.. I was at work one day unpacking a new PC and it had a display port on it and I was like wtf is that? Seriously, it made me feel like I live under a rock or something :P
Goodluck. =)
To run an Eyefinity setup like I have you need to use the displayport plug on the 5XXX series cards, so that means either a monitor with it or an Active adaptor. I chose to get uniform monitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasty
Oh, and apparently you can daisy-chain displayport monitors for multiple displays. (Not entirely sure, but whatever)
Just a small update. I hit 72 today. I decided to take it slow and not go all out. I'm looking at about 1 level a day or so.
While leveling i've already made over 8,000 gold total. 4k of which went to power leveling enchanting for my paladin tank (low level dust was absurdly expensive, like 90g per stack... all the way up to arcane). I will be using the other 4kish to level jewelcrafting. Not bad for just questing so far. I also have about 80 stacks of runecloth and 60 stacks of netherweave... so good start for powerlvling alts tailoring.
I also had the oppertunity to get average statistics from a friend of mine who had to gear his resto shaman. From blues to geared enough to ICC (full t9 etc) yielded some interesting average results per instance etc. He took down the exact amount of silver/gold, greys and white items dropped as well greens (which in his experience averaged at 5 per run). So i'm looking forward to using heroics to make money when i'm done.
low leveling enchants are crazy expensive. Really most low level mats are rediculous. There is gold to be made and lost there.
Yes there is... Especially in outland greens on my server. It's making me want to start abusing the tailoring trick from BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzler
That works fine until you flood the market and the person running that portion of the AH decides to just undercut you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
On the subject of making gold, what is the best use of Frostweave Cloth? I have so much of the stuff I am having to buy extra bank tabs for it.
This is why you control the market instead of flooding it. You speak like i'm some retarded kid who just got off the short bus. On my server there really isn't anyone selling these materials in the long term. What do i care if some idiot undercuts me a few times? I can always undercut them back as most of those players will not check their auctions every few hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajuuk
That is server dependent. The best use on my server is frost weave bags.Quote:
Originally Posted by thinus
Cost: 6 bolts of imbued netherweave ( 10 cloth + 2 dust per bolt) and a thread
On my server dust is 2g each, so you'd need 12 (24g for all), then the cloth is ~ 4g per stack (12g total) and bags sell for 50-55g
This means that for a 36g investment you get back 50-55g. That is a 14 to 19g profit per bag. They can take a bit to sell though. But if you get the mats yourself say doing heroics you are looking at... ~ 3 greens worth of infinite dust. So for every 3 stacks of frostweave + 3ish greens worth of disenchanted materials you get about 50g. It's not bad at all.
Falicy here, you still need to take into account how much you are losing by not selling the items or mats on the AH. This obviously then means that it makes no difference if you get the cloth or dust yourself and use it for making the bags or sell it on the AH and then use the funds to buy them back off the AH to make the bags.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
This also doesn't take into account that it's more expensive for you to use mats gotten while grinding if the item sells to a vendor for more than the mats de'd from it can be brought from the AH. For example, dust is 2g per dust, item that sells for 10g to vendor will de into 4 dust means that you will cost yourself 2g min by de'ing it yourself and using the mats rather than selling it to vendor and buying dusts from AH.
Stating common sense is amazing. That goes for any green being DE'd. You take the risk of getting less than the worth of the item sold to vendor. Regardless of if you get the mats yourself or buy them it is still 14-19g better to make bags than not. The 55g is pure profit if you get all the mats yourself regardless of if it would sell for less if you used the items in other ways. Opposed to having only the gold to make the bags. You'd be making the 36ish gold either way if the items are yours (greens, cloth etc) So calling it a falicy is just silly and you're calling me out on something so small that it seems counterproductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Regardless your point is "correct". From my personal experience most things that DE from instances are worth around 4g each (i mostly see rings and cloth drop). So you are looking to DE ~3 items (assuming item level 75+ which now de to 3-5 dust[could be more, was 2-5 before but i know it was changed] or 1-2 GCE) that is ~12g which is less than buying the dust on most servers. So the point may be valid but moot at best. You obviously will not DE a green that will sell for 8g unless you have a 75% chance to get at least ONE greater cosmic. Like stated before, i would like to assume people have common sense.
It is all opportunity costs.
You can vendor the drops, for "x" gold.
You can DE the drops, for "y" gold (which varies, but will average something long-term).
One of the two options is a gain over the option, by "z" amount.
Naturally, you'll go with the better option, all things being equal.
Whether you vendor the item, and purchase Infinite Dust.
Or DE it, and acquire the Infinite Dust that way.
The method of getting the dust doesn't matter, except that you use the more profitable approach.
Combine so much dust, with so much cloth.
Which averages 36 gold in costs.
And end up with something which averages 55g in value.
And you are up the difference.
Yes. I guess many people don't see how opportunity costs go along with WoW. That's OK though. The whole idea of how the materials are obtained doesn't REALLY matter, but in a way it does. Like you said you are making more money by maximizing your profitability for the items you have obtained, especially if the items you are DEing are worth less than the dust you will be receiving(like item level 75+ rings) which if you vendored it and got less gold you'd be losing out on even more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
So lets say the items you are DEing are all rings which sell for under 4 gold. They DE for an average of ~ 4 dust per because of the changes to enchanting mats from disenchant. So that could double the value per item you DE, that's if they don't DE for a GCE as GCE would more than double the item's worth to the player. So lets say after doing a bunch of heroics you have 9 stacks of frostweave cloth, 10 greens to DE that would be worth 4g when sold to vendor and are level 75+. For this we will take into account that the items are worth approximately 3.5 dust per, we won't discuss GCE as if they happen then you are making much more profit than the item DE'd anyway.
Option 1: Vendoring
9 stacks of frostweave = 22.5g
10 greens worth 4 g = 40g
Total: 62.5g
Option 2: Making Bags
9 stacks of frostweave = 36 x bolts of frostweave so you can make 3 bags worth of imbued
10 greens = ~ 40 infinite dust
Thread = -6 gold per bag
Each bag takes 12 dust + 12 bolts so you can make 3 bags worth, have 4 infinite dust left over.
Each bag sells for lets say 48 gold (varying depending on server obviously)
48 x 3 = 144 gold
- 18 = 126 gold
126/62.5 = ~ 2 times better to use enchanting + tailoring over vendoring.
And the problem you have here still is that you are not listing all the options.
Option 3 would be Ah-ing the cloth and de'ing the greens to sell the mats you get. In this case how many CE's you get is important to the calculations.
Option 4 would be de'ing the greens, using the dust and cloth to make imbued bolts to then AH, again the number of CE's you get from the DE is important to the calculations.
It's easy to say that people should have common sense, however the beginners forum shows that's not the case, so if you're trying to provide an informative thread you should not assume the reader knows anything and make sure to explain the reasons for every decision.
Greedy Goblin and other sites show that plenty of people don't understand the concept of opportunity cost or arbitrage so just skimming over those concepts with a glib throw-away line such as "it's even cheaper if I farm the mats myself" provides no service to people reading the thread for the most part so if you want to use such lines or thoughts you really should make sure to do things such as you have done in the past post and show calculations for why a choice provides a better option and what variables need to be considered that could change that decision.
As an example:
Assumption: We have 10 level 75 armour items that have a 75% chance to provide 5 ID's, 20% chance to provide 1.5 GCE and 5% chance to provide DS
Current market value is 2g per ID, 10g per GCE, 20g per DS
Therefore we will average 3.75 ID, 0.3 GCE, 0.05 DS per green item. If it vendors for more than (3.75*2 + 0.3*10 + 0.05*20)g we should vendor it otherwise we should de it leading to an income of, on average, at least 11.5g per item.
This then gives us the base value for option 1 of selling our items and then from there you can go into the various options regarding using the items to make tradegoods to potenitally sell for more value. Using your previous example with calculations modified to match mine above.
Another thing missing from your calculations, though less important now that the DE option is available in a group, is that the de items could be used to make various enchants to sell on the AH rather than used to imbue cloth.Quote:
Option 1: Vendoring
9 stacks of frostweave = 22.5g
10 greens worth 11.5 g each = 115g
Total: 137.5g
Option 2: Making Bags
9 stacks of frostweave = 36 x bolts of frostweave so you can make 3 bags worth of imbued
10 greens = ~ 40 infinite dust
Thread = -6 gold per bag
Each bag takes 12 dust + 12 bolts so you can make 3 bags worth, have 4 infinite dust left over.
Each bag sells for lets say 48 gold (varying depending on server obviously)
48 x 3 = 144 gold
- 18 = 126 gold
126/137.5.5 = better to de + vendor items than make bags
What you are trying to do is tricky to do right but it should be done right or not at all.
As an aside to this, I have a degree in commerce with my majors in finance and risk management (eg hedging, arbitrage, options, etc) so I am talking from a background of knowledge :)
Someone draw up a spreadsheet I can just plug my server values into that will tell me what to do with my cloth lol.
This discussion is why I will always be poor.
Funny you should say that. I'm thinking of how best to write an addon that uses the server vars from auctioneer combined with tradeskills you have to tell you where arbitrage opportunity exists, essentially what you are asking about but in gameQuote:
Originally Posted by thinus