Cataclysm: The Ret Paladin- AKA Multi-Box Burst PVP Machines.

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12-03-2010, 10:19 PM
Shodokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by remanz

Well Dks are not without their own problems. Since we are in the rets thread, I can lay out some of the bad things about Dks.

1st and foremost, I just don't see playing healer yourself + 4DKs can work. Without a lead => follow, your paladin get CCed, your DK will get into this "stickie targetting mode" IWT will be screwed up. DK will run around like a mad man. You know what I am talking about. "blind on paladin, bam!, DK lost control" need to cleartarget and resync.

2nd , frost DK dies fast. I went from blood => frost. Gain about 1-2k DPS, but lost 12k HP and all my self heal abilities. They are like arm warrior. The defensive CD is just not that effective as far as I used it. They need heals.

Um... frost dks die no faster than any other melee class, including paladins (if playing a single one). Sticky targeting is easy to deal with though, just bind a key (for me to my naga) to a macro that /cleartarget /assist focus

Also back to the dks... my buddy did SOTA by himself and got 62-0... yeah.
12-06-2010, 10:36 AM
BrothelMeister

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodokan

Healing as a whole is less effective in cata without burning through a shitton of mana.

Also to the person saying WoG will hit for 15k non crit @ 85 is living in dream land. But that remains to be seen.

WoG doesn't use mana, and mana itself is a joke to Ret paladins isn't it?
12-06-2010, 05:37 PM
remanz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shodokan

Um... frost dks die no faster than any other melee class, including paladins (if playing a single one). Sticky targeting is easy to deal with though, just bind a key (for me to my naga) to a macro that /cleartarget /assist focus

Also back to the dks... my buddy did SOTA by himself and got 62-0... yeah.

i understand how to fix the issue with sticky targetting. The problem is after you "/cleartarget". You need to follow to re-group you guys together after they run off. Say I fight you on the ramp in blade edge arena. I simply jump off the ramp. and your IWT won't get to me because it can't make turns. You need a main to lead them there.

and SOTA 62-0, can't say much about that. Is he alliance with all elite teammates, just farming noob hordes ? You can't death grip seige. And the warlock,mage, and hunter on the seige can just kite/nuke melee all day long in SOTA.
12-06-2010, 08:06 PM
Mercbeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by remanz

i understand how to fix the issue with sticky targetting. The problem is after you "/cleartarget". You need to follow to re-group you guys together after they run off. Say I fight you on the ramp in blade edge arena. I simply jump off the ramp. and your IWT won't get to me because it can't make turns. You need a main to lead them there.

and SOTA 62-0, can't say much about that. Is he alliance with all elite teammates, just farming noob hordes ? You can't death grip seige. And the warlock,mage, and hunter on the seige can just kite/nuke melee all day long in SOTA.

But Grip solves this very real problem so long as you don't completely escape LOS.

I don't think melee's will be ideal for arena anyways. Too much pillar and LOS humping. DK might be better than other groups due to grip but I think it is still far from ideal.

It is a BG group imo and that is where it will be strongest.
12-06-2010, 08:09 PM
Shodokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by remanz

i understand how to fix the issue with sticky targetting. The problem is after you "/cleartarget". You need to follow to re-group you guys together after they run off. Say I fight you on the ramp in blade edge arena. I simply jump off the ramp. and your IWT won't get to me because it can't make turns. You need a main to lead them there.

and SOTA 62-0, can't say much about that. Is he alliance with all elite teammates, just farming noob hordes ? You can't death grip seige. And the warlock,mage, and hunter on the seige can just kite/nuke melee all day long in SOTA.

Hes horde on a BG where alliance rule the sea.
12-13-2010, 06:22 AM
remanz

I hit 85 during the weekend.

ALl i have to say about retribution paladin is

it DOES shitty Damage , and does mega healing. Compare to enhance shaman, frost dk, and fury warrior, retribution does shittttttty damage. There is no burst. The burst only kicks in when I have 2nd round of 3 HP. (first 3 HP burned on inquisition). and Inquisition is a management nightmare currently for me. I am either having difficulties keeping it up, or wasting TV doing inqusition. Its just not working out as far as offense goes.

My lead frost DK does mega burst, especially when there is more than one target. Without perfect inqusition, holy power management, my paladins do about half DPS as my frost DK HB/OB spam.

On the flip side, rets heal a lot. If you let me hit you, I can keep my team up.
12-13-2010, 10:10 AM
Mosg2

Haha, to play off of Remanz' post about the Rets at 85 I'll post my thoughts on the DK's so far:

I hit 85 on Thursday and I've done a total of 6 BG's since then. Me entire team died once and one of my DK's (carrying a flag) died another time. That's it.

I'm a complete wrecking ball. The damage that they do coupled with the defensive cooldowns that they have is insane. It's *even better* than how I thought it would turn out in my Manifesto.
12-13-2010, 11:12 AM
Mercbeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosg2

Haha, to play off of Remanz' post about the Rets at 85 I'll post my thoughts on the DK's so far:

I hit 85 on Thursday and I've done a total of 6 BG's since then. Me entire team died once and one of my DK's (carrying a flag) died another time. That's it.

I'm a complete wrecking ball. The damage that they do coupled with the defensive cooldowns that they have is insane. It's *even better* than how I thought it would turn out in my Manifesto.

I couldn't start leveling until friday really, and I just hit 85 with mine. I am in marathon mining mode atm to get myself into the PvP gear before thursday.

Anyways more to the point, actually I will post my question in the manifesto thread ;p

I will concur with Mosg2 however, I got jumped by a full group of 84/85's with my team 4dk+1pali while questing in Uldum. They jumped me via dropping on top of me, and blew up one DK pretty quickly before I could really react. Then they got curb stomped. I just turret healed with the pali as they ran people down and tore them apart. When they focused on the pali, I popped a shield and gripped the offender to my blender.
12-13-2010, 03:05 PM
BrothelMeister

Idk, I'm 84 with the DK+4 Rets atm, and I have to say I'm quite impressed by it's burst. The sustained damage in instances is still VERY VERY low, sometimes my DK tank beats the rets for damage, but the healing output of the rets is VERY VERY good. As long as I have a target to hit, my team will be very hard to down.

As far as inquisition management goes, just have a pop-up on the main screen for when each pally does not (or does) have it up. I usually just try to get inquisition right before wings (on boss fights) or right before firing off multiple exorcisms, but if you need healing, save the holy power for that.

In pvp, nothing gets away from deathgrip into wings+hammer into stun into snare into stun into crusader strike + auto attack. At 83, absolutely wrecked AV with the team.
12-13-2010, 03:58 PM
remanz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosg2

Haha, to play off of Remanz' post about the Rets at 85 I'll post my thoughts on the DK's so far:

I hit 85 on Thursday and I've done a total of 6 BG's since then. Me entire team died once and one of my DK's (carrying a flag) died another time. That's it.

I'm a complete wrecking ball. The damage that they do coupled with the defensive cooldowns that they have is insane. It's *even better* than how I thought it would turn out in my Manifesto.

HB just hits way too far for that much damage. I don't why, but my HB hits for like 5-6k single target and crits for 11-12k sometimes, and my rets 3HP TV, hits the same! it hits for 7k none-crit , and 13-14k crit. How can this be, a frost rune no CD AOE skill that hits for a mile range has the same single target damage as a 3 holy power melee swing.

When I open on a mob with frost DK + rets, my DK dps jumps up to like 7-8k instantly. And that's with just 1 mob . with 2 it will be like 10k. My rets have to open wings to get 5k. Its just not right.

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