What makes an MMO for you?

So I've been thinking entirely too much lately and I keep coming back to an idea that I'd had about niche gaming, speciffically in the area of MMOs. When I say niche gaming, I'm referring to small indie titles. I know there are likely some out there in the MMO world, but I'm not really familiar with them. So I was thinking about a hypothetical MMO, or maybe just an MO since it wouldn't be massive, and I keep coming back to a couple conflicting concepts.

On one hand, online games work because they have a large enough population that there is always enough players online to keep the world alive. On the other hand, because there are so many players online, it's nigh impossible to make the story or actions related to players unique. We know that the massive element of the genre works, but would the inverse be true? Would you play a game where your action permanently impacted the game world if it meant that the player population would be orders of magnitudes smaller?

Assuming there was a team of story devs to keep things from getting dry, "Oh noes, you killed the quest giver and now there are no more quests." would people play a game where some things could only be done once? A WoW with only one Thunderfury, where Ony only died once, and Kazzak didn't try to take over Hellfire every three days?

I can see some problems of people wanting to do some things that others did first, but could story overcome that?

Sorry if this post seems a little out there, I have some ideas in my head and I'm not sure how to express them. I'm curious what people think about small niche worlds though. Do you think this is something people would play, or is Massive a requirement for online worlds?

Thoughts? Opinions?

- Souca -

Personally I would hate that. I don't play MMOs because there are other people. I play them because the world is so much larger with so many more things to do than a single player game. I still think my dream game would have been FF XI if they would have let me create all six characters in my party and let me play alone. (If only I had discovered multiboxing before I quit lol) It was a huge world to explore, many places you could never go solo, that parties would never want to go. A friend got me to trial WoW and it was a large improvement for soloing, and I have come to adore the game. When I finally get a team to 80, I am going back to all the instances that missed and do all the quests in them for the story. The story drives me.


TL;DR I would be afraid all the cool stuff would be done before I could get there or I wouldn't get to experience THAT part of the story. I wouldn't last a month.

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Originally Posted by Solon

Personally I would hate that. I don't play MMOs because there are other people. I play them because the world is so much larger with so many more things to do than a single player game. I still think my dream game would have been FF XI if they would have let me create all six characters in my party and let me play alone. (If only I had discovered multiboxing before I quit lol) It was a huge world to explore, many places you could never go solo, that parties would never want to go. A friend got me to trial WoW and it was a large improvement for soloing, and I have come to adore the game. When I finally get a team to 80, I am going back to all the instances that missed and do all the quests in them for the story. The story drives me.


TL;DR I would be afraid all the cool stuff would be done before I could get there or I wouldn't get to experience THAT part of the story. I wouldn't last a month.

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Maybe I misunderstand you, but you say you want story, but you want to do what everyone else has done. What about a story and world that is changing and there is always something new to do. Instead of looking at it from the sense that you wouldn't get to kill Onyxia because some other party did first, how about the fact that there could be a real progression in her story because of her defeat? I guess what I'm getting at is a deeper story for the players, just not the same one for each player.

Imagine a group of story GMs, or devs that help steer the overall story of the world by giving unique quests to players. Does that make sense? The closest analoge I can think of is the role a Dungeon Master played in pen and paper RPGs, they let players do their own things, quested or otherwise, but they played the part of the NPC and reacted to the world.

I hope I'm not so tired I'm not making any sense, just trying to figure out something in my head and value the opinions of the people on this forum.

- Souca -

I generally choose an MMO, because my current game has become stale or boring.

I look at the class and race options, looking for a lot of variety and different combinations.
Then look at one or a few that I would like to try out.

The game has to have a decent story or lore to it.
And the world needs to be a fair size, so we don't run out of new things early.

It the game appears to be good, it is the friends that keep us in it.
There's no chance I'd still be playing warcraft after 4 years, if it was an offline single player game.
Even if I could play my assorted teams in it, and do heroics etc.

But if the GM's show they don't care about the player base (read EQ towards the end of my tenure there), the only content or the focus of the content is for a different target group of players, and most of your friends have left the game because of this... we start to look at other games.

Conceptually, it sounds something sorta like Neverwinter Nights.

I think it would be cool, but would entirely depend on how it was implemented and controlled. Not sure how it would be possible to keep up with constantly evolving content. You'd have to use some large random event generators or something. Players having the DM role would probably work out the best, but not sure how that would be best implemented.

I would think a hybrid type game could work. So basically your standard MMO but with player generated instances that had strict rules so people don't get "easy-mode loot". I could also see it working in an RvR environment where opposing factions (including an NPC faction(s)) build there own fortresses/cities etc.. and they go at it. Once destroyed, the "team" would have to build a new one. Perhaps earning new defensive items (e.g., tamed mobs? better towers?) as they progressed or discovered/earned these things in the game environment.

I think you'd have to forgo levelling up as well. This concept has gotten old and I think the next generation of gamers will not want it. It's really no longer fun IMO. There is absolutely no point in grinding through levels to actually get to the end game besides to make the company money and buy them time. Of course, that means you'd have to work out what the game goals would be in lieu of this. This works well for a dynamic environment.

I think I read about a game a little while ago where there was a hardcore mode in which if you died, you stayed dead. I believe it was an option somehow - particular servers or something? I don't recall.

Perhaps do some research on Second LIfe and try to figure out why the hell that game is so popular. I believe there is a lot more player interaction/involvement with the environment than in any other MMO I have played.

im easily entertained so i dont expect too much. as long as theres people to socialize with and stuff to do im content.

one thing i would like to see in a game is a world that changes as time goes by. i know its tough to do cause it requires people to constantly work on new environments, but itd be nice to see.

For me, it's all about suspension of disbelief. I don't care if a game is stylized, semi-realistic or what not. I can think of more items that make a game something I do NOT want to play:

• clunky/spastic character/mechanical animations
• retarded physics (i.e.: DAoC's turn-while-in-mid-air thing)
• bad clipping
• bad lag-warping
• overdone flashy spell/ability effects
• AI's that seem to "cheat" all the time (warping through obstacles, using long-cooldown abilities every 2 seconds
• Having people 5 levels above you be completely unkillable in PVP
• invisibility instead of stealth (hiding in the middle of a road in broad daylight? TARDED!)
• forced grouping to accomplish anything at all
• having PVE affect PVP or vice-versa
• restricted PVP that forces small-groups only due to bad game engine implementations
• devs that use revolutionary instead of evolutionary ability tweaking methodologies (unfortunately, this only appears with time)
• devs that listen to whiny butthurt kids when making class nerf/buff decisions
• top-end PVE content that is restricted to a small, limited group of players (/me misses Ye Olde Days of 100+ person raids because the content was scaled properly so you actually needed to get a bunch of guilds together to actually raid it)
• non-dynamic "idle" worlds (see DAoC for sloppy, dead-fish feeling woodscapes/cities; see WoW for worlds where trees/plants/bugs/etc. and sounds are woven together such that even sitting still, you still feel like things are going on and the world is "alive")
• PVP systems where anyone can one- or two-shot someone else inside of 3 seconds unless the 2nd person is naked and 5 levels below you
• PVP systems that have crappy effects on the world and do not inspire realm-wide cooperation in attack/defense. See DAoC Old Frontiers relic stuff for the most fun I've ever had in a PVP game.
• PVP systems that have no penalty for consensual PVP deaths (WoW)
• PVP systems that have overly punitive penalties for consensual PVP deaths (Ultima Online)
• PVP systems where one player can grief another player with zero fear of being hunted down and killed (a la WoW's epic flying mounts)

I'm sure there are a bunch more but those are the big ones for me.

There are a few things to me that I love in an MMO

Graphics
Lore
Classes/Abilities/Races

Cool Weapons/Armor and the ability to MODIFY THEM (GHEAR MEH NOW WOW!) So they don't look like you are a poor beggar who found someone elses clothes.

Player Base, Is it large enough to over look the general population of "Douche Bag", is it to small (Take Asheron's Call Currently....40 people per server about 100% to small)

Content and Size of the world. To small and I may as well go play xbox and power play thru a 19 hr game session to beat it...

PvP the ability to pvpin a balanced pvp enviroment, but not to be griefed, I do enjoy WoW's PvE servers and the way they offer it but do not cram it down your throat ( there are times I wish it was a pvp server....Ni Hao now gold farmer, one day.....) I do not like Rock Paper Scissors though but the game is not an E-Sport...

And the biggest one that I like.....S-O-L-O Play Ability.
By this (and this is by far my biggest one next to Classes etc) I mean, the ability to competatively be geared, stay geared, and enjoy many aspects of the game Solo or Duo depending. I do _NOT_ like being led around the nose and told, "End Game is with 4-24 other players or you get to arena, you will like it"
I am reminded of extremely old but enjoyable (to me) games such as, Legends of Kesmai (Gamestorm, R.I.P) poor graphics, fun game, a knight kills a dragon, alone, but has the chance to be eaten and lose all his gear. Epic.
MPBT (Multi Player Battle Tech) great game, pvp all the time, dropping mechs etc.

Since these 2 games I have been "chasing the dragon" so to speak many good ones along the way but nothing that ever stuck in me and said "awsome MMO, wouldn't change 50 or 60 things yet" WoW is as close as I came tho, so... lol
As the guy above said though, this will have to change, I think things like Path of Titans etc will help in regards to changing, 80 levels for "end game" gets old quick,

perhaps they need to also go back to, death = item drop or death = corpse that is lootable by NPC's, as of now death in WoW is just.. Woops CORPSE RUSH.


Sorry for the rambling wall of text.....

Having boxed in warcraft, a very large thing for me will be how boxing friendly is the game?

The complexity/power of the macro system will be a consideration.
And how strong (easy to use) the follow system is.

The default WoW interface is very lacking compared to most games.
But then you can use addons to modify it greatly, which is good.
Addons really make the boxing of wow so much easier.

In the past, I'd evaluate an MMO from a solo player point of view.
I doubt I'd even try another game like WoW, if you could not box it.

UI customization, I cannot stand playing games without it now. If its not better than wow was at release forget it. I don't mean character control, but the UI.

I really like LOTRO's monster versus player system.

If not not boxable I wouldn't play.