Boomkin PvP - resto gear better?

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08-04-2009, 10:39 AM
Owltoid

Boomkin PvP - resto gear better?

Boomkin gear gives X crit and resto gear gives X spirit (it's a one for one exchange). Improved moonkin form gives 30% of your spirit as additional spell power. I did some rough math on the hateful gladiator set (the 9 pieces) and if I didn't miss anything then it's a choice between 393 spirit or 393 crit rating.

393 spirit translates into 118 spellpower with improved moonkin form. Obviously the mana regen is also a nice boost, but that's not the point of stacking spirit in PvP. If I estimate 2k spell power for fully geared PvP moonkin, then an extra 100 spell power would be roughly a 5% increase in damage.

393 crit rating translatets into 8.6% crit. That's a ton of crit. There are trinkets out there that give you 100 spell power, but there's no trinket that gives you 8% crit. However, crit is affected heavily by resil in PvP and a critical strike can also spark beneficial things to the opposing player.

Unfortunately calculating the actual increase in damage due to 8.6% crit is above my theorycrafting skills, but here is my best shot: I've read that a fully PvP geared moonkin has around 20% crit which would mean a fully resto geared moonkin would have about 12% crit. If resil knocks off about 8% crit then we're looking at effective crit rates of 12% and 4%. If we're looking at effective damage done then we have to account for the crit DAMAGE reduction of about 30%, which puts those numbers around 8% and 3%. Interestingly enough, if my amatuer theorycrafting is correct, that's about a 5% difference.

PvP is all about burst, but with boxing we control that burst. If all moonkins had higher spell damage and lower crit, then we could rely less on the RNG and more on pure power.

I have started buying resto gear since I think that spell damage may be better for multiboxing moonkins and I'd like to play resto every once in awhile anyway. I would not recommend spell damage for a solo moonkin who can watch their eclipe procs (which happen based on crit). Since I can't monitor eclipse for 5 moonkins, and I'm just wrath spamming away in PvP (unless I'm trying to stay hidden and not have the machine gun leading horde back to my position) I'm not worried about the eclipse.

Any thoughts on what I've wrote? I'm sorry if it's not clear... English is my first language, but that doesn't mean I'm good at it :)
08-04-2009, 12:10 PM
Smoooth

Resilience now reduces all damage from players instead of just crits and DoTs.

8% crit is 12% damage increase over time (0.08*1.5) crits do 150% the normal damage.

You should take the moonkin gear especially now with the resilience change.
08-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Owltoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoooth

Resilience now reduces all damage from players instead of just crits and DoTs.

8% crit is 12% damage increase over time (0.08*1.5) crits do 150% the normal damage.

You should take the moonkin gear especially now with the resilience change.

1% crit is like doing 1% extra damage (assuming crit bonus is 200% of regular damage). In other words, if I have a 10% crit versus someone with 0% crit, all else equal and assuming crits do 200% regular damage, then I will do 10% more damage. A similar situation is someone with 10% more spell damage will do 10% more damage.

You're correct with the new resil changes. In the situation of 12% effective crit versus 4% effective crit, which is an 8% difference, no longer shrinks to 5% (originally was 8%*70%=5%).

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around all of this. I'm guessing moonkin gear is better for moonkins (not a big surprise, eh?) but now wondering how much bigger. If moonkins are nearly as effective in PvP using the resto set, then I would personally choose the resto set because resto druids suck in moonkin gear (for dual spec).
08-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Stealthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owltoid

1% crit is like doing 1% extra damage (assuming crit bonus is 200% of regular damage). In other words, if I have a 10% crit versus someone with 0% crit, all else equal and assuming crits do 200% regular damage, then I will do 10% more damage. A similar situation is someone with 10% more spell damage will do 10% more damage.

You're correct with the new resil changes. In the situation of 12% effective crit versus 4% effective crit, which is an 8% difference, no longer shrinks to 5% (originally was 8%*70%=5%).

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around all of this. I'm guessing moonkin gear is better for moonkins (not a big surprise, eh?) but now wondering how much bigger. If moonkins are nearly as effective in PvP using the resto set, then I would personally choose the resto set because resto druids suck in moonkin gear (for dual spec).

You want crit for proc'ing these two talents:

1. Nature's Grace
2. Moonkin Form (mana regen)

Cheers,
S.
08-05-2009, 12:00 AM
Owltoid

Excuse my poor theorycrafting, but if you're wrath spamming (which is likely in PvP) then does Nature's Grace really help since you're limited by the global cooldown? Or does that 20% also shorten the global cooldown?

Mana regen from crit wouldn't be nearly as nice as nearly 400 extra spirit, though neither are a huge issue in PvP.
08-05-2009, 02:45 AM
Stealthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owltoid

Excuse my poor theorycrafting, but if you're wrath spamming (which is likely in PvP) then does Nature's Grace really help since you're limited by the global cooldown? Or does that 20% also shorten the global cooldown?

Mana regen from crit wouldn't be nearly as nice as nearly 400 extra spirit, though neither are a huge issue in PvP.

Yes - haste also lowers the GCD (capped at a minimum of 1 sec) as well as reducing casting time.

The mana regen really shines in BG's and WG where you are spending a lot of time in combat / casting, i.e. where spirit based regen is interrupted by the FSR (five second rule).

Cheers,
S.
08-05-2009, 10:07 AM
Owltoid

I usually spec into intensity on the resto tree (there's no other moonkin talents that I truly want usually, especially if I skip eclipse) which causes something like 50% of your mana regen to continue while casting.

I knew that haste reduces the global cooldown, but Nature's Grace isn't haste. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, because I just don't know, but has anyone confirmed that Nature's Grace is a haste mechanic and not something that is supposed to be used for starfire instead? I can see them intending it to be used during wrath spam where it procs, you cast one additional errant wrath (due to reaction timing) and still have time to get one starfire in before the 3 seconds is up.

I'm 100% sure for solo play moonkin gear is better than resto for moonkins in both PvP and PvE. For multiboxing, I'm about 75% sure moonkin gear is still better, though I'm not sure how much better. All these procs on crit are impossible to manage.
08-06-2009, 02:10 AM
Stealthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owltoid

I usually spec into intensity on the resto tree (there's no other moonkin talents that I truly want usually, especially if I skip eclipse) which causes something like 50% of your mana regen to continue while casting.

I knew that haste reduces the global cooldown, but Nature's Grace isn't haste. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, because I just don't know, but has anyone confirmed that Nature's Grace is a haste mechanic and not something that is supposed to be used for starfire instead? I can see them intending it to be used during wrath spam where it procs, you cast one additional errant wrath (due to reaction timing) and still have time to get one starfire in before the 3 seconds is up.

I'm 100% sure for solo play moonkin gear is better than resto for moonkins in both PvP and PvE. For multiboxing, I'm about 75% sure moonkin gear is still better, though I'm not sure how much better. All these procs on crit are impossible to manage.

Nature's Grace affects the GCD according to Wowwiki - http://www.wowwiki.com/Nature's_Grace

The great thing about haste is that it stacks multiplictaively, so if you have have 10% haste and Nature's Grace procs, your haste will now be (1.10 x 1.20) = 1.32, i.e. 32% haste. Or with Bloodlust (1.10 x 1.20 x 1.30) = 1.716, i.e. 171.6%.

Note - the WG rewards have Haste instead of Crit / Spirit - you might want to consider them instead.

Why do I keep going on about haste? Here's some info about Moonkins from this thread on the EJ forums (emphasis mine):

Stats

Stat priority runs in the following order:
Hit rating (to cap) > Haste rating (to soft cap) > Spellpower > Crit rating > Haste rating > Intellect > Spirit.

Hit cap is 263 (237 for Alliance with a Draenei in their group). Otherwise, raid composition is not an issue, as we provide the spell hit debuff ourselves. Against a sub-83 target, talents are sufficient to reach cap, so hit on gear does not add anything.

The soft haste cap is the point at which your GCD hits the 1 second minimum with Nature's Grace up. With Improved Moonkin Form, Celestial Focus, and Wrath of Air Totem, this occurs at 401 haste rating. Missing WoA, it's 585.

As far as the remaining stats, spellpower, haste, and crit will always be preferred if you can find items with all 3. Spellpower is the strongest. Spirit and Int give small DPS contributions.

Exact stat comparisons of course depend on your current stats/talents, but a typical set of values might look like:
Spellpower: 1.4
Haste rating: 0.9 [1.5 if not soft-capped]
Crit rating: 1.1
Intellect: 0.6
Spirit: 0.5

Hope this helps! :)