So... hardware multiboxing?

[jak3676]

Yesterday's "multiboxing ban" (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23558957/policy-update-for-input-broadcasting-software) specifically prohibits "input broadcasting software". I'm assuming that effectively bans all the mutliboxing software that we generally use, e.g ISBoxer, HKN/AHK, Keyclone, etc.

In today's policy update (https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/24258), Blizzard did clarify that multiboxing (owning and playing multiple accounts at the same time) is still OK - just that you can't use "input broadcasting software". Why they specifically prohibit "software" instead of more generic ban on "input broadcasting tools", "utilities" or some other wording I don't now. But that does seem to leave a gap open for hardware multiboxing.

There's a whole other discussion to be had about whether a hardware solution would still be violating the intent of what Blizzard did, or whether anyone (including Blizzard) would even be able to tell the difference. Maybe they'd just ban you anyway - seems like that's already happening based on nothing more than mass reporting.

This thread isn't to say that a hardware solution is OK by Blizzard, but I do think its an idea worth exploring. What the options, what are the pro's and con's? I'm scared to even fire up any of the software utilities even if I turn off broadcasting entirely, but that's also a discussion for some another thread.

Generally speaking, hardware is a more expensive solution - and the performance likely isn't as good as the purpose built software we're all used to dealing with. But please share any tips/tricks or test results that may be useful.

[jak3676]

Looking at doing this with physically separate PCs seems daunting. Even you look at used i5/i7 systems with low-end dedicated graphics you're probably looking at a minimum of $200 per PC, closer to double that if you want anything new or with decent specifications.

Monitors would be another discussion - easiest may be to just get a group of 4, cheap monitors for all your subs, or they make large monitors that can split screen to handle quad inputs. I'll look into other options for managing a 4-way split screen, but its perfectly doable in hardware as well as software.

Hardware Keyboard Multicaster:
http://www.vetra.com/845utext.html For keyboard control, my 1st thought is to look at something like this; 1 keyboard input, with multiple simultaneous outputs. This site makes versions for 2-8 connections, some on USB and some on the old-school PS/2 style keyboards. Its not particularly cheap option - $400 for the 5-port USB version, and then you still need 5 separate PC's to run WoW on.

Hardware programable KVM:
I need to find the make/model we have at work, but at it's core it looks similar to the multicaster above, but its generally for using your 1 keyboard and mouse to jump between different systems - 1 at a time. But you can do the switch without leaving your keyboard - I think the default is alt-F1 for PC1, alt-F2 for PC2, etc. But I'd assume this could also be macro'd. And if you want all your monitors active at one time, just don't hook them um through the KVM - wire them directly. If this could be macro'd into your standard attack sequence it may be workable - KVM's are generally cheaper than the multicasters above. (Or maybe someone could look at programable KVMs and see if there's a way to program them for multiple simultaneous input.)

VMWare:
https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-pro.html.
This isn't technically a "hardware" solution, but VMWare is pretty close to it - you still have all the pain of managing separate PC's, but those PCs exist only within software - all running on your host PC. For those who have already invested in a big beefy PC, VMWare may work. There are issues with GPU support from within a virtual machine (it generally doesn't work well). But I read that the 3000 Nvidia GPUs are supposed to have better VM support.

Mouse support across multiple systems:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=35460 For mouse support my thought is not to run the mouse through a multicaster/KVM, but instead run something like mouse without borders or synergy (https://symless.com/synergy) to let your single mouse move across the different PC's - 1 mouse, no cursor or click duplication at all. We've used similar systems at work on servers before - there's generally some noticeable lag when switching between systems, but it may be tolerable for those few times when you need mouse control on a separate toon.

[jak3676]

Other possible hardware options - not certain this is what we need, but I think so? Much cheaper than the vectra model above.
https://www.newegg.com/p/1DJ-0033-000C9
https://www.newegg.com/p/1DJ-0033-00085

Also a blue post today that seemingly indicated hardware multiboxing would be OK. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/can-you-please-clarify-a-few-things-regarding-multiboxing/707988/14

"The focus of the announcement yesterday was prohibiting Input Broadcast Software, no other restrictions have been announced regarding hardware. Keyboards/mouse macros and functionality, assuming they work within our policies (i.e. do not use the keyboard macro to do something beyond what our in-game macro could do), is generally fine."

https://www.amazon.com/Synchronous-Controller-Computers-One-Button-Swapping/dp/B07NZSZFL8 This looks like the best (quick and cheap) option to begin some hardware multiboxing. I just ordered, and it arrives here tomorrow. I'll let you know it goes.

[Jyger]

Keep us updated!

[Swaggasauruz]

Thanks for this, I'm ordering https://www.amazon.com/Synchronous-Controller-Computers-One-Button-Swapping/dp/B07NZSZFL8 right now and will be sure to post back with how I like it. Having to swap from a 10 box down to a 5 box due to only have 5 PCs is a bummer but it's better than not being able to multibox at all.

[Lyonheart]

There were many of us using multi PCs to box before. I am reluctant to do it now until we know 100% that we can without being banned. I (we) already are losing all the money and time ( decade+) spent on WoW boxing. Im not even sure I would want to again.

[MadMilitia]

It's a trap.

Remember they're not ever going to stop you from purchasing multiple copies of the game. They will and have been increasingly more intolerant of playing them simultaneously.

The day will come where they won't let you use two at the same time, ever and you will have serious regrets about the time and money you continued to pour into it. They are not obligated to honor their past agreements. To the contrary 2013-2020 shows this.

I believe this is why they used weasel words. Think about it. If they're not alright with software multiplexing why would they be fine with hardware multiplexing? It's the same thing. It just allows them to keep siphoning money off of people they clearly don't want around.

The sooner you all realize this the better. Like me you have more disposable cash for your hobby than most do. Put that to good use. Hurt them financially by not supporting them. Let the company know that you won't be suckered again.

[CokeZero]

There was another blue post that specifically said:

"Just to be clear, we have never SUPPORTED multi-boxing, but it was allowed - still is matter of fact, just not in the way you may have been doing it. You can still have as many license as you like online at a time, you just need to control them individually now."

I bolded the last part as that right there, in my opinion, kills even hardware multi-boxing. I'm not familiar with the different blue names over there, so don't know if this is some lowly blue forum moderator posting their opinion, or if this is the actual stance of Blizzard as a whole. Because with that bolded statement, GM's can just ban you on the spot no questions asked if they see multi-box-like behavior...

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-are-refunds-not-being-given-after-an-abrupt-change-in-policy/707978/37

It kind of contradicts the blue post from:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/can-you-please-clarify-a-few-things-regarding-multiboxing/707988/14

So who the hell knows lol.

[Kayley]

Uhhhh... it's more about the removal of that 'grey area' in which their resources were wasted trying to discern who is multiboxing, who is botting, who is just using software stupidly etc. When they enforce this (not just give the warnings) it will make it so much simpler for them to ban those doing wrong. But meh, i'll keep it on topic.

You guys who choose to go the hardware route? Have fun!! :D Make sure you enjoy yourselves. Sincerely. Also make sure to post video's as I've always been a sucker for mboxing dungeon running.

[schmonz]

https://www.dual-boxing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2411&stc=1

[margulda]

https://www.dual-boxing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2411&stc=1

;););)

[jak3676]

I'm still trying to build this in my head - feel free to add on any recommendations. My goal is simply to set up a hardware multibox such that I can run my own dungeons in Classic and hopefully a TBC-Classic.

I'm looking at 5 physical PCs, connected to 2 monitors (1 for my main, the other split into 4 screens for my followers). Simultaneous keyboard control will be via my Razer Tartarus Pro keypad connected via a USB multicaster - sending that keypad input to all 5 PC's the same time. I'll adjust the keybindings on both the keypad and on each of the wow clients such that there's only a handful of keys bound on my followers. I'm also looking at a traditional mouse and keyboard connected only to my main PC, then a 2nd traditional mouse and keyboard connected and shared between the other 4 PC via Mouse without Boarders (or some other sort of software KVM).

Monitors:
https://www.dell.com/yu/p/dell-p4317q-monitor/pd

Keypad:
https://www.razer.com/gaming-keypads/razer-tartarus-pro

USB Multicaster/KVM:
https://www.amazon.com/Synchronous-Controller-Computers-One-Button-Swapping/dp/B07NZSZFL8

Software Mouse/Keyboard sharing:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start/mouse-without-borders-mousewithoutborders/0523308d-3406-4273-b86e-bef28aa6b50d
or
https://symless.com/synergy

At the moment I don't have the monitor above and while I really like that approach, I want it in a 32" version (my current display setup is 3 monitors with a 32" center and smaller monitors in portrait on sides - but I was already looking to switch to 3x 32" monitors anyway). If I can't find a 32" multi-client monitor, I may look at something like this
https://www.networktechinc.com/4k-hdmi-quad-multiviewer.html to feed 4 1080P inputs into a single 4k monitor. I haven't found a good 4k @60Hz 4x1 multiviewer yet that isn't over $1000 yet though - anyone have other suggestions?

I plan to do some limited testing this weekend. I already have 3 monitors and 3 PCs on my desk and the USB multicaster arrives late today, so I can begin testing tonight.

[Mordikai]

Check out https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/releases (Barrier) for the software KVM. It is a fork of Synergy and in my experience much better. Not to mention it is opensource and free!

[Apatheist]

If you deliberately try to get around something you know to be a direct ToS violation it's just a matter of time before you get banned.

[Mordikai]

I just saw this https://www.amazon.com/Optimal-Shop-Multi-viewer-Multiviewer-seamless/dp/B075WVHKVT on Amazon... looks interesting!

Edit - Nevermind, it does not do PiP :( Too good to be true
Edit2 - Now I am on the hunt! This one only does 1080p max but it looks promising: https://www.amazon.com/Wiistar-Multi-Viewer-Switcher-Seamless-Security/dp/B07T7MCRF4/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=quad+screen+multiviewer&sr=8-8. Might be worth a shot at $55

[nodoze]

Thanks Jak for linking from one of the Classic WoW sub-forum threads to here so I would also notice this thread).

I agree that much proposed in this thread may not be a violation of the current "letter of the law" but certainly is a violation of the "spirit of the law" and will likely get banned at some point if it rises to the attention of Blizz enough...

I will subcribe to this thread and maybe contribute some thoughts but do want to raise concerns that I think that any multi-client broadcasting (whether software or hardware based) is the wrong direction for the community (just like I repeated spoke out against trying to MultiBox in classic BGs and multiboxers rez-wiping raids were building hate against our community and just asking Blizz to take action)...

Heads up that there are the following semi-related threads that folk may want to also keep up with:


No broadcast software ideas for multiboxing (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57977-No-broadcast-software-ideas-for-multiboxing) : Similar to this thread but the focus is more on no broadcasting of any single keystroke/action to multiple wow clients (solutions with out without hardware multi-target broadcasting are discussed but we are trying to identify which may break the spirit of the law and which do not).
Best Teams for no broadcast multiboxing (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57978-Best-Teams-for-no-broadcast-multiboxing) : This thread is focused on devising [Classic] Wow teams that use no broadcasting of single actions to multiple game clients (via software NOR hardware). This is by trying to build around classes which can fulfill roles via "periodic rotations" (for lack of a better term) that just requrie you to be on a given client for a few seconds and then function on their own for awhile (6-14 seconds or indefinitely without automation nor broadcasting). At least one good example for Retail WoW was brought up though that thread is focused on Classic and likely Retail should be in it's own thread.

[nodoze]

This Thanksgiving it looks like Blizzard has changed their tastes from Turkey to Duck.

If something "quacks like a duck" it is likely going to be eaten just like a duck and pushing it will likely get our community a clarification we don't want/need (that hardware duplication is also against the ToS)...

I can tell you from experience that the Dell 43 Ultra HD 4k Multi Client Monitor (P4317Q (https://www.dell.com/yu/p/dell-p4317q-monitor/pd)) works well for bringing in 4 PC inputs for games (including WoW). I have 5 kids and that Dell is in our "kid office" where I sometime play WoW or other games with my kids and I mirror their PCs to the Dell so I don't have to keep turning my head to see their PC screens to help them (I am disabled retired from the Military with both back and neck injuries from multiple parachuting mishaps so I can't do that a bunch).

Regarding alternatives I know there are several cheaper 43 inch models out there but don't know of any smaller models. My oldest kid was recently appointed to a US Service Academy and I did some research on the most cost effective smaller 4K screen for school and came up with the BenQ EL 2870U (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B078HWN5CX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and recommended that to other parents and cadets/midshipmen and everyone who has tried it loves it. Everyone who comes to my kids "dorm" room loves it and freak out about it because it is "gaming quality". The barracks (dorms) have very limited size restrictions so I didn't really look at 4K options between 28" & the 43" 4K Dell that I already have but you can review my research which includes some 32" options that may help you (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M8oXBHrW1OtPH3OxotO4oklzh_yzP9MWcY2JfuAno7o/edit?usp=sharing). One of those coupled with the 4K multiviewer/splitter (haven't tested any splitters myself) may work in a more budget friendly manner compared to the Dell (or even other 43" alternatives).

For cheap PCs with decent graphics I would look for low cost AMD APU solutions as even older ones can blow away the most current built in Intel Iris graphics and are cheaper to boot... For each kid I built fairly inexpensive and small 4core AMD APU machines with 16 GB each that work great (8GB would have been fine but I had multiple 8GB sticks available when I upgraded my workstation to 128GB for testing Oracle DBs so I just threw them into the kid PCs). You can use small motherboards and a small SSD/M2 and they are blazing fast for 1 wow client. To give you an idea of how powerful they are most of the time I also ran 3-4 ArcheAge (AA) clients minimized in the background for free labor regen and just periodically connect from my home office via www.splashtop.com (http://www.splashtop.com) to each kid PC in the "kid office" to burn/use the free AA labor (just briefly bring the AA clients to the Foreground and start a labor burn and put it to the background) and the kids could still play 1 Wow or Minecraft in the foreground fine with the AA clients processing in the background...

Edit: Regarding the Dell I remember reading in the documentation that there was software that allowed the mouse and maybe the keyboard float to control the other quadrants even if they were from other PCs (and maybe had hotkeyable switching)... I never had any reason to use that so haven't tested it and don't remember the details but that may be a solution for fast and seamless switching between upto 4 clients... A four 1080P video to 4K video solution may rule that out so that is something to consider...

[jak3676]

Just a quick update that my hardware USB multicaster is delayed by Amazon. Now saying delivery Sun-Monday. I'll post once I have hardware in hand and start testing.

[Swaggasauruz]

Just a quick update that my hardware USB multicaster is delayed by Amazon. Now saying delivery Sun-Monday. I'll post once I have hardware in hand and start testing.

Mine arrived today along with a one hand keyboard. Setup was easy and it works well, only time will tell if I'll get a warning/ban lol.

[nodoze]

For at least now my respectful request to fellow members of the multiboxing community is to please minimize open world multiboxing and multiboxing interaction with other players for at least until the pitchforks are put away and the bonfires they are throwing us witches on burns out... Terrorizing or attacking or showing off in front of other players is just asking to get our community more screwed and ideally folk should only box in instances. I would also ideally entirely stop or at least heavily minimize any simultaneous actions, whether hardware enabled or software enabled, as you are just asking for another Nuke to be dropped on us all by Blizzard.

[schmonz]

For at least now my respectful request to fellow members of the multiboxing community is to please minimize open world multiboxing and multiboxing interaction with other players for at least until the pitchforks are put away and the bonfires they are throwing us witches on burns out...

Well, i think multiboxing in WoW is over. And i will not return to WoW to play multiple chars. Yet, i will continue to play solo. I also think that Blizzards decision will have echos in other MMORPGs, and probably many of them will prohibit multiboxing too.

Those are dark times for multiboxers.

[Lyonheart]

I'm just surprised they wont do a boxer friendly server thing. I mean there is obviously a financial incentive to cater to us in some way! This solves the problem for everyone. ( the bot problem will NOT be solved by this imo.. they have incentive to create new ways to do what they have always done )

[schmonz]

I'm just surprised they wont do a boxer friendly server thing. I mean there is obviously a financial incentive to cater to us in some way! This solves the problem for everyone. ( the bot problem will NOT be solved by this imo.. they have incentive to create new ways to do what they have always done )

If i could guess, it is because they also do not want to make a special hardcore gamer server, or a special casual gamer or solo server. Too much effort.

[WOWBOX40]

Its not rocket science.

On retail: ban software and hardware boxing.

Create seperate servers for boxers: make it impossible to transfere any item/gold to and from it + disable black auction house. Allow isboxer etc to be used while playing on the boxer servers. Ingame shop is disabled ofcourse. Disable pvp... arena... bgs. Cant buy wow tokens either. To play on these realms, you must subscribe with irl cash. See: we can enjoy the playstyle again + the company earns money.

[jak3676]

I got my "USB Synchronous K/M Switch" today (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8). I think I was wrong to call it a "multicaster" above - that seems to refer to video display & aggregation. I'll just refer to is as the KM switch from here out. ***edit: nodoze makes good points below, I'll go with "KM Synchronizer" for simplicity and clarity***

So far I'm just testing it out by itself, on a single PC, without loading WoW at all. I think step 1 is to make sure it works as expected on its own.

Just plugging it into a PC and Windows 10 pops up a notification that its configuring a new USB device for a second, then windows pops up a 2nd notification that my USB Composite device has been configured and it working correctly. This is without any input devices plugged into the KM switch.

Here's screen shots of Windows settings, Device Manager and the Windows Event log from when I plugged it in - all seem as expected.
https://gyazo.com/c195cd983ba96433eaff5c7135de18a9
https://gyazo.com/f1c2899e174bf1af9a6faaa943085fc7
https://gyazo.com/670f8e9b7b1a68e758d2374c8ee8f8a8

Next I moved my Microsoft Sidewinder x8 mouse from its direct connection to my PC to going through the KM switch. Initially everything seems fine - left-click, right-click and scroll wheel work exactly as expected. I can even still change the mouse's DPI setting on the fly with the buttons on top of the mouse. But my PC no longer recognizes that I have a Microsoft mouse installed at all.

Before (Mouse plugged directly into PC)
https://gyazo.com/b66237ce36e1499d1a97a97cb67c704b

After (going through the KM Switch)
https://gyazo.com/322f02637a4f2575df21b853436dbaed

This did mean that my 2 side/thumb buttons reverted back to their default settings (page forward and page backward) instead of Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V where I had them set on the Microsoft IntelliPoint software (I have to use the older v2.3 IntellePoint which last got its update for Vista - the newer versions don't have support for my very old Sidewinder mouse). This was supper annoying and I lost most of my last edit because I inadvertently hit the "page back" button on my mouse without having saved this edit. Lesson learned - save often while testing. (you'd think I would have learned this lesson well enough over the last 45 years...)

At some point while testing, I also plugged the Sidewinder mouse into the keyboard slot on the KM Synchronizer. That didn't seem to matter at all - mouse still worked as expected, but I did not test thoroughly. It does make me curious if there's any actual difference between the mouse and keyboard input slots, or they're both just standard USB 2.0 slots? But unless someone has a reason why this may matter, I'm not going to bother trying to figure it out.

Next I tried my Razer Basilisk v2 mouse - wired through the KM Synchronizer. Quick tests look the same as the Sidewinder - that is all the basic mouse buttons work fine, but Razer Central does not detect that I have a Razer mouse plugged in at all. So the mouse works as though you don't have any drivers installed - the dpi up/down buttons before the scroll wheel continue to work to increase/decrease dpi sensitivity. The 2 thumb buttons are also set to page forward and page backward and the thumb clutch is set to drastically increase the mouse's dpi setting ("sniper mode"). This does make me wonder where these thumb buttons are getting their settings and if that's adjustable somewhere that would work through the KM synchronizer (maybe even in WoW key bindings directly?) because I cannot edit these setting with either Microsoft's or Razer's utilities.

Mouse Testing Conclusion:
Overall the mouse testing worked about as expected - the KM Synchronizer works fine: All the buttons on both mice I tested still functioned, I don't notice any perceivable lag or other performance issues, but I do loose driver specific programming on both mice.

Next up will be my Razer Tartarus Pro keypad and an old USB 10-key keypad before moving on to some dual-PC testing. My thought is make sure I understand its basic functionality in Windows on 1 and 2 PCs then let some others look at that data before introducing it to WoW.

[nodoze]

I got my "USB Synchronous K/M Switch" today (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8). I think I was wrong to call it a "multicaster" above - that seems to refer to video display & aggregation. I'll just refer to is as the KM switch from here out. ... I think the key words when describing the intended use when boxing with that USB switch are:

'USB Sharing Synchronous Controller'

A normal/typical KVM or KM switch is one Keyboard/Video/Mouse or Keyboard/Mouse to multiple computers but ONE AT A TIME.

A KM Sharing Synchronous Controller is to connect one Keyboard/Mouse to multiple computers AT THE SAME TIME.

If you just call it a 'KM Switch' that typically means the one to many but one at a time... I realize that the device you have actually can be both non-synchronous and synchronous but since the intended use is multiple at the same time better to delineate that as otherwise folk may think that any KM or KMV switch will do (for example the one I have here will NOT do what you are wanting to do).

It would be better to call it something like a 'KM Switch Synchronizor' to denote that it is one-to-many but at the same time...

Conceptually you were actually spot on as Multicasting is a one-to-many routing type (at the same time) and isn't limited to just video:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast)https://i.gyazo.com/c69c8997e30090942897322a3243b86e.png
(https://i.gyazo.com/c69c8997e30090942897322a3243b86e.png)
Mine should hopefully arrive tomorrow...

[jak3676]

fair points all around. I'll leave the above as is, but I'll go with "KM Synchronizer" going forward.

I have no idea if/how this would work - but could it be possible to plug 1 keyboard into the KM Synchronizer, then plug multiple outputs from the Synchronizer back into the same PC - then somehow direct those different inputs to different wow clients or windows? If anyone has ideas how to configure something like that - I'd love to hear it.

[nodoze]

fair points all around. I'll leave the above as is, but I'll go with KM Synchronizer going forward.

I have no idea if/how this would work - but could it be possible to plug 1 keyboard into the KM Synchronizer, then plug multiple outputs from the Synchronizer back into the same PC - then somehow direct those different inputs to different wow clients or windows? If anyone has ideas how to configure something like that - I'd love to hear it.You should be able to do it on one PC if you turned that PC into a VM Host and then bind each USB cable from the KM Synchronizer as a passthrough to a specific VM on the PC (VM host). You would run each wow client in it's own VM...

It should be virtually the same (pun intended) as running the KM Synchronizer to multiple physical PCs.

[jak3676]

Yes, that'd work. But if you're going to go the VM route, I don't think you need to bother with a hardware keyboard broadcaster - the functionality of feeding input from 1 keyboard into multiple VM's simultaneously already exists within the VM utilities.

If we can use a $35 KM synchronizer to feed multiple WoW clients without a lot of other tools, that could become a great option for people that don't want to deal with multiple PC's or multiple VM's.

[jak3676]

Keyboard/Keypad Testing

10-key:
I found an old USB 10-key (probably 10 or 20 years old???) so I figured I'd test that real quick. I have no idea what brand this this thing is, but its model number "HTK-101U", exactly like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Number-Keyboard-Mini-Black-Wired-Model-Number-HTK-101U-USED-EUC-/264588268580

USB 10-key through the KM Synchronizer - works fine, exact same functionality as through the KM Synchronizer as when plugged in directly. Windows detects the 10-key as a "USB Composite Device" when plugged in directly. But just like with the mice, I don't see any indication that windows even detects it when plugged in through the Synchronizer. Only think I learned is that the "NUM Lock" setting on my keyboard changes the behavior of the separate USB 10-key (so the stand-alone 10-key behaves the same as the built-in 10-key on my keyboard). This is consistent whether through the KM Synchronizer or not.

Razer Tartarus Pro: (https://www.razer.com/gaming-keypads/razer-tartarus-pro/RZ07-03110100-R3U1)
Does not work through the KM Synchronizer - none of the 1-20 buttons work at all through the Synchronizer, although they work fine when directly connected. The thumbpad works and is mapped to keyboard up, down, left, right (arrow keys) as expected and the scroll wheel functions the same as my mouse. But none of the 1-20 keys on the keypad or the keymap selector button register any input. Neither Windows now Razer Central recognize that I have a keypad installed at all. I also tried some online keyboard and gamepad testers (i.e. https://keyboardchecker.com/ and https://gamepad-tester.com/) but they do not register any keypad input either. I expected I'd be stuck on some sort of default keymap, but this seems to be dead in the water. I tried forcing device manager to scan for hardware changes, but no luck. Any suggestions?

Keyboard:
I tried an old "Microsoft Digital Media Pro Keyboard" through the KM Synchronizer. All the main keys on the keyboard seem fine. They keyboard does have a number of special keys to turn volume up/down, open your email, My Documents, calculator, etc - none of those work or register any input at all. Oddly enough the CAPS/NUM/Scroll lights do work, and they even correctly share input with my main keyboard which is plugged into the PC directly. So if I turn CAPS on from the 2nd keyboard going through the KM Synchronizer, then it turns on the CAPS light on both keyboards and they both switch to all CAPS.

On to dual-PC and synchronous input testing.

[jak3676]

Dual-PC Testing:

I ran 2 of the included USB cables from the KM Synchronizer into both my Desktop and Laptop, and plugged in my Microsoft mouse and keyboard into the Synchronizer with my Razer devices plugged directly into my Desktop and the laptop's built in keyboard and trackpad still functioning. Basic tests seem fine, the switch button (left button) cycles the KM output to only the desktop or laptop as expected - both keyboard and mouse working on both devices as described above (basic keys all work - but neither PC nor laptop recognize an extra keyboard or mouse being plugged in. I cannot use either Razer or Microsoft mouse software to change button maps).

Once plugged in and in switch mode (as opposed to synchronized mode) you can press "windows key+1" to switch the output to PC1, "windows key+2" to switch to PC2, etc. There's also an option to enable switching for "*" instead of the window key (so "* + 1", "* + 2", etc). Both options can be enabled at the same time. Ctrl+<left arrow> also switches down 1 portand Ctrl+<right arrow> switches up 1 port. All the switching seemed to work OK, but not great. I tried rapidly switching back and forth and I frequently missed some switches. It did not seem like there was an internal delay on the switching or anything, but just that the device was not great about picking up the commands. Some times I can slowly and deliberately try to switch outputs and the device just misses it, but then sometimes I can switch back and forth rapidly for a dozen tries in a row without error.

Another complaint as a basic Keyboard and Mouse Switch is the KM synchronizer does not intelligently detect which outputs are possible, then limit switching to only those possibilities. Instead the Switch button advances the output to 1>2>3>4>5>6>7>8 then back to 1. So to go from 1 to 2 its 1 press of the button, but to go from 2 back to 1 its 7 presses of the button.

There is a light to indicate which output is selected, but the LED's seem to be angled down, so its difficult to see the lights unless you bend down to the height of the switch to see.

There's also no rubber feet on the bottom to grip the desktop - so pressing the button requires you to grab and hold the device while pressing the button to prevent it from sliding around while the button is pressed.

The included USB cables (male-to-male aka USB type 1 to type 1) are only about 3' long. I would have preferred to put this on the left side of desk because when you grab it with your right hand you cover up the lights with your palm while pressing the buttons - but the cords would not reach across my desk.

If all the rest of the testing works out OK, I'll need to look for some longer cords and well building a stand for this thing so I can see the lights and change is functionality more easily. I'm also bummed that I can't use my Razer Tartarus with this thing at all. But the 10-key worked, so maybe I'll see if I can find some more basic 1-hand only keyboards and see how those work.

Dual-PC keyboard/mouse switch conclusion:
As a basic keyboard & mouse switch it works OK. The functionality meets requirements, but could be improved upon. For $35 I got what I paid for - even if all you need a basic 8-port K/M Switch, this would be OK so long as you only have a basic keyboard & mouse and don't rely on functionality from the keyboard/mouse driver.

[jak3676]

Synchronous Output (hardware broadcasting):

Short version is the broadcast feature works pretty well and is as simple as you'd expect. There's a button on the KM Synchronizer that when pressed lights up all the output ports and sends both your mouse and keyboard commands to every other PC at the same time. There's a keyboard shortcut to turn broadcasting on and off as well, but its not really convenient and I don't any way to change that key mapping from the default (double click scroll lock, then press 0).

Once in synchronous mode I was sending every keystroke to both PC's at the same time. I could not notice any lag or delay between them. The mouse movement and clicks were also synchronized. I tested with 4 monitors - 2 on each PC - different sizes, aspect ratios and different orientation (landscape and portrait). The mouse broadcasting worked surprisingly well I thought. When mouse tracking did get off between different PC's & monitors I could easily just mouse into some corner of the screen to get both cursors back to the exact same spot.

To turn off broadcasting you just one of the methods described above to switch outputs to a different client (e.g. Ctrl + left arrow). There is no option to partially enable/disable synchronous mode (multicast to some ports, but not others) - its either all broadcasting or in single-casting mode where you select which client to output to.

My only real complaint with the broadcast feature is that I'd really want to change that keybinding to something else - something I could turn off and on quickly and easily.

I haven't tried this device with WoW at all yet, and I probably won't get to that this weekend (I have a ton of real world work to do). As much as it really is a hardware broadcaster and not software like Blizzard just banned, I do think the jury is still out on whether this sort of solution will be OK, or if this violates the "spirit of the law" such that they'll ban users for this also. But the device does what it says it does.

I have not received any sorts of warnings on my account. I do plan to just do some basic multiboxing over the next few days without this device (or any software), just to do my regular crafting. If all that is going OK, I may try running a few dungeons with this device later, but I still need to get 5 PC's and a different monitor solution set up.

But for $35 I think its worth experimenting with. Any other questions I can answer or things I need to test?

[Tiny_d]

I think ISBoxer loaded onto something like a Raspberry Pi would work as a hardware broadcaster? Sure same program and functionality but if it's external to the Computer and in some hardware then it becomes a hardware broadcaster not software? The way ISBoxer has an addon surely it could be made to work?

[jak3676]

Not sure I understand what you're suggesting - hooking 1 keyboard to a raspberry pi then developing a way from within the raspberry pi to push that signal to multiple PC's over additional USB connections with 1 copy of wow on each pc? If you push to multiple PC's - sure you just turned the pi into a keyboard broadcaster. I don't know how you'd push multiple outputs from the pi to your other PC's, but I'm sure someone could figure it out. I think that'd work, but it seems like a more difficult way to make a keyboard broadcaster.

If you're thinking about pushing that signal from the pi over 1 USB connection to 1 PC with multiple WoW clients running at the same time, I don't know of any way to split that input and direct portions of it to each window/wow client. You'd still need some sort of software to do that splitting & direction from within your PC. Even if we had that software (assuming it didn't also prove problematic to Blizz's rules), you still used a pi to make a device similar to the $35 broadcaster I'm trying.

Neither approach seems simplier/easier/cheaper than the approach I'm trying. But if you're good with programming something to run on linux on the pi, you may be better able to program in better support for things like the tartarus or even ways to more effectively pass through the connection such that windows will still recognize the device.

[D4RkViP3R]

I think ISBoxer loaded onto something like a Raspberry Pi would work as a hardware broadcaster? Sure same program and functionality but if it's external to the Computer and in some hardware then it becomes a hardware broadcaster not software? The way ISBoxer has an addon surely it could be made to work?

I was thinking exactly the same. Instead of a Pi I would take an Intel NUC (better performance and more important Windows running on it to run ISBoxer).
Now instead of targeting a running World of Warcraft instance ISBoxer is giving it's output to an output device which is emulating a keyboard via USB to another device. From a technical point of view maybe taking keyboard controller and put some logic behind it instead of the physical keyboard so the target machine is recognizing a real keyboard.
I think five computers would be the easiest solution (or VMs) as I am not aware howto assign a keyboard to a specific application when multiple are attached to one computer.

[nodoze]

Jak,

Really appreciate you sharing all the research and testing.

Very good details and helps give everyone considering going down this path realistic expectations, insights into tips/tricks/idiosyncrasys, and likely saves wasting $ as well as time if they don't like what they learned.

Being able to toggle on/off hardware broadcasting easily seems pretty key (pun intended) so it is kinda sad that they made it a weird combination (double press scroll lock, then press 0). Instead of multiple sequential key presses it would have been better to have made it a multiple simultaneous key presses like Cntrl-Shift-A (or whatever is easy and not typically used elsewhere) or even better would have been to make it user configurable/programmable.

To make toggling hardware broadcasting on/off easy (and for other reasons) you may want to look into getting a keyboard and/or mouse that has the ability to store the macros on the hardware side and thus not have to rely on interfacing with software running in the OS's to launch macros. My recollection is that the Corsair series at least used to have that functionality in the K90/K95/M40/60/M65 series though I am not sure if they still do or not but I would think that some solutions still exist. Note that hardware macros due have some limitations in things like launching OS commands and apps but should work fine in game key bindings & macros and maybe can make the "double press scroll lock, then press 0" easier. There are more links and pages out there regarding hardware based macros but these are the ones that seemed decent when I was double-checking my memory to write this reply to you and figured I might as well share them in case they save you or others time:

https://superuser.com/questions/420233/keyboard-with-hardware-macros/845824

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/9wj48123

https://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/3jrwia/backlit_keyboard_with_hardware_macro_feature/cusjnwi/

Thanks again. Amazing write ups. Mine should arrive today and you saved me a ton of time.

[orgeracine]

"If you can find a technical trick that allows you to physically use 5 keyboards at a time, then yes there is no problem :). What is forbidden here is the software side which is used to duplicate keystrokes to multiple clients at the same time. If you can do this without any software other than World of Warcraft, then it's completely legal."
Here is the answer of a gm that answer me. It is a google trad cause i am french but his answer his quite clear huh? So question. Kvm is a software or a hardware solution?

[jak3676]

Burst mode - I won't get into how to do it, but this device does have an option to turn on "burst mode" for any given key. If this mode is enabled for any given key, pressing and holding that key down will fire multiple triggers of that key multiple times a second until the key is released (I have not tested if this "key down", "key up" or a full "key down, then up"). This sort of automatic repeater functionality is common on many programable keyboards, but it is explicitly prohibited by Blizzard. I only mention that here as a warning. I wish I could disable that functionality entirely just so there was no possible option to accidentally enable it.

Modifying device PID/VID - The device also has some ability to change PID/VID (product ID, Vendor ID). PID/VID for USB devices is analogous the 1st 1/2 half of the MAC address on the network interface on your motherboard. PID/VID appear in the details under device manager and in the Windows event logs when a USB device is plugged in as shown here: https://gyazo.com/670f8e9b7b1a68e758d2374c8ee8f8a8. I don't really understand why someone may want to change this?

Cascading multiple KM Synchronizers - the device does specifically support daisy chaining multiple devices together and it provides ways to directly switch between single PCs even when cascaded together (although the keyboard shortcuts to do that get even more complicated). I only have the single device, but it says you can connect up to 9 of them together, for the ability to control up to 72 PC's. So if you need to control more than 8 PCs, it still seems like a workable option.

[daviddoran]

Does Synergy or Input Director work with mouse movement in game? I use Microsoft Mouse Without Borders regularly with 2 PCs, even before trying to hardware box, and for 99% of what I use it for, it works fine. It does have a 4 PC limitation, so I am looking for an alternative.

With Mouse Without Borders, it doesn't seem to be able to "hold" the mouse button in a down position, it seems to just send one click and that's it, making looking around with right click or moving with both buttons held not functional.

[nodoze]

"If you can find a technical trick that allows you to physically use 5 keyboards at a time, then yes there is no problem :). What is forbidden here is the software side which is used to duplicate keystrokes to multiple clients at the same time. If you can do this without any software other than World of Warcraft, then it's completely legal."
Here is the answer of a gm that answer me. It is a google trad cause i am french but his answer his quite clear huh? So question. Kvm is a software or a hardware solution?Many of us have said that we think Blizzard is signaling that from now on they are wanting 1 human input to do 1 action in 1 wow client (period)...

This GM is saying the same thing:

https://postimg.cc/NLgnSxNN

I am all for some cool hardware solutions like a keyboard that sends keys to multiple different clients (but one at a time) but anything other than that is really just asking for it.

To me the ideal hardware device is a keyboard like this Launchpad where each key send an input to one and only one WoW client but is able to have buttons flexibly designed for multiple WoW clients:

https://i.gyazo.com/ab172a7a596229d859efa002fe12a6a5.png

The problem may end up being that this technology may also support multi-casting of 1 human input to more than 1 WoW client and if people start doing that with it then Blizz may add it to the forbidden usage list...

[jak3676]

What next in terms of looking at a hardware broadcasting solution? I could put up a more official post on the forums asking for a blue response, or I could just going ahead with my own tests in WoW classic. What do others think is the best way to get clarity from Blizz?

[Jyger]

Currently there have been 2 GM responses I'm aware of.

I don't have the images handy, but one GM said "No", to all things that aren't manual input for each window. Meaning no hardware sync etc.

Then one GM said they honestly don't know and it's more of a legal issue, but their final answer was anything that isn't input broadcasting software is fine.

A few people have gotten their hardware setups up and running over the past few days, and I think the play here is to just log on and play as you normally would, and see if you eventually get a warning / if the rules change.

My personal opinion (for anyone that cares :P) is that hardware boxing being allowed will be purely dependent on how disruptive it becomes once again, meaning if all the farmers and mass world PvPers pick it up again, it's probably going to get banned again.

Anyway, keep us updated as per usual, interested to read your findings!

[bpkdasbaum]

Right now it's just a warning, the blue post stated that suspensions will follow "Soon thereafter, the warnings will escalate to account actions (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23558957/policy-update-for-input-broadcasting-software)".
I recon the warning phase will last at least till Shadowlands launch and I continued playing every day with HKN after I received a warning for each of my wow licenses (6 in total).

Since only software was named in the policy update I plan on switching to hardware solution with one PC and Aster (Edit: Multiseat desktop virtualization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization) superior to VM) setup:

Existing Hardware:

Slaves Display: Luckily I already own an LG 43UD79 (https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-43UD79) 42" 4k display with 4x 1080p PBP / PIP options, can be easily set switched via remote.
Master: Acer XB271HU
i7-7700K
16gb DDR4
GTX 1080TI
GTX 1660

Additional Hardware ordered:

8 ports KVM switch USB synchronizer 8 ports synchronous controller a set of keyboard/mouse control 8 PC
(had to order on aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015621988.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.70075cefml ny63), no retailer has it in europe/france, amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8) doesn't deliver it to europe T_T, kudos to jak3676 (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57967-So-hardware-multiboxing?p=433221&viewfull=1#post433221) pointing towards the tech)

PCI-E USB 3.0 Extension Card with 5x + 2x USB (https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07FK28BXX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
(need more USB slots for the keyboard inputs)

16gb DDR4
(was planning to upgrade for some time now anyway, running 5-6 wow clients brings me up to 12-13gigs, running the additional VMs with~4-5gigs would hit a limit)

4x HDMI cable

4x Display Port to HDMI Adapter (graphic cards have mostly only DP outputs)


Goal

Run 5x Windows via Aster (https://www.ibik.ru/)
Keyboard sends a signal to the KVM switch USB synchronizer
Each Windows receives it's own hardware keyboard signal
Each Windows runs one wow client
4 slaves run on 4k display via 4x 1080p PBP
1 master on main display

[jak3676]

For that monitor - don't swap inputs via remote. Instead look at "Mouse without Boarders", "Synergy", "Barrier" - all essentially a software K/M switch that will automatically switch your keyboard and mouse.

Not sure I understand Aster (https://www.ibik.ru/) - made me google it as I'm just not going to click on a .ru link. Why not run virtualbox is you want a free VM solution?

[nodoze]

Right now it's just a warning, the blue post stated that suspensions will follow "Soon thereafter, the warnings will escalate to account actions (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23558957/policy-update-for-input-broadcasting-software)".
I recon the warning phase will last at least till Shadowlands launch and I continued playing every day with HKN after I received a warning for each of my wow licenses (6 in total).

Since only software was named in the policy update I plan on switching to hardware solution with one PC and Aster (VM) setup:

Existing Hardware:

Slaves Display: Luckily I already own an LG 43UD79 (https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-43UD79) 42" 4k display with 4x 1080p PBP / PIP options, can be easily set switched via remote.
Master: Acer XB271HU
i7-7700K
16gb DDR4
GTX 1080TI
GTX 1660

Additional Hardware ordered:

8 ports KVM switch USB synchronizer 8 ports synchronous controller a set of keyboard/mouse control 8 PC
(had to order on aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015621988.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.70075cefml ny63), no retailer has it in europe/france, amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8) doesn't deliver it to europe T_T, kudos to jak3676 (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57967-So-hardware-multiboxing?p=433221&viewfull=1#post433221) pointing towards the tech)

PCI-E USB 3.0 Extension Card with 5x + 2x USB (https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07FK28BXX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
(need more USB slots for the keyboard inputs)

16gb DDR4
(was planning to upgrade for some time now anyway, running 5-6 wow clients brings me up to 12-13gigs, running the additional VMs with~4-5gigs would hit a limit)

4x HDMI cable

4x Display Port to HDMI Adapter (graphic cards have mostly only DP outputs)


Goal

Run 5x Windows via Aster (https://www.ibik.ru/)
Keyboard sends a signal to the KVM switch USB synchronizer
Each Windows receives it's own hardware keyboard signal
Each Windows runs one wow client
4 slaves run on 4k display via 4x 1080p PBP
1 master on main displayThat sounds like a good plan and as long as long as you limit 1 input causing 1 action to 1 client you are likely in keeping with both the letter and spirit of the law.

Grats on that 'LG 43UD79 (https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-43UD79)' as it is younger (and improved) sibling to my 'Dell P4317Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-CH3jKBoc)' as that should be pretty sweet!

What are the classes/roles you plan to run in your initial 5box?

Are you running 4Mages+Priest (4MP) or PaladinTank+3Mages+Priest (Pa3MP) or something else?

[Purpleflavor]

Just a reminder for those going hardware, Cyber monday is November 30th.
:cool:

[jak3676]

Any sort of 4-core, 8GB RAM, Nvida 1030 PC will should be fine for multiboxing at the low resolutions and graphics detail that we put on our followers (up to 1080P). You can find these sorts of systems used/refurbished for $150-$250 if you look around, maybe 2x that much if you go new. I've paid more than that for keyboards, so its not super spendy. But yes, not as cheap $5/month

[EaTCarbS]

I remember the old hardware setups posted here back in the day... it seems we've come full circle

[H3artl3ss]

@bpkdasbsaum (https://www.dual-boxing.com/members/75222-bpkdasbsaum) I thought VM's were against TOS?

[pillows]

Any sort of 4-core, 8GB RAM, Nvida 1030 PC will should be fine for multiboxing at the low resolutions and graphics detail

For myself, I chose 7 mini pc
https://www.amazon.com/Microtella-Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M75Q-1-DisplayPort/dp/B07WPFQ5CT/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Lenovo%2BM715q%2BTiny&qid=1604996066&s=electronics&sr=1-19&th=1

[bpkdasbaum]

For that monitor - don't swap inputs via remote. Instead look at "Mouse without Boarders", "Synergy", "Barrier" - all essentially a software K/M switch that will automatically switch your keyboard and mouse.

Not sure I understand Aster (https://www.ibik.ru/) - made me google it as I'm just not going to click on a .ru link. Why not run virtualbox is you want a free VM solution?

I use Aster to split my PC with my girl friend, the software allows to split monitor/resources/windows user/inputs/sound on the same machine.
Free VM Solutions didn't offer the ease of use / setup and from what I found. (I opted for paid windows instead of free linux so to say)


That sounds like a good plan and as long as long as you limit 1 input causing 1 action to 1 client you are likely in keeping with both the letter and spirit of the law.

Grats on that 'LG 43UD79 (https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-43UD79)' as it is younger (and improved) sibling to my 'Dell P4317Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-CH3jKBoc)' as that should be pretty sweet!

What are the classes/roles you plan to run in your initial 5box?

Are you running 4Mages+Priest (4MP) or PaladinTank+3Mages+Priest (Pa3MP) or something else?


4MP and Warrior3MP.

Have been playing those since AQ Patch. Leveled up the team originally to grind for Scarab Lord.
Mostly just using them for profession cooldowns, less boring fishing and the occasional Dungeon for fun and challenge.




@bpkdasbsaum (https://www.dual-boxing.com/members/75222-bpkdasbsaum) I thought VM's were against TOS?

Don't think so, didn't find any mention of this. I also just put the VM as a reference, I should have said, multiseat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization

Multiseat desktop virtualization is an entirely new methodology which combines the cost saving benefits and ease of maintenance of server based computing, the time savings of hardware agnostic cloning, and the capabilities of desktop virtualization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_virtualization), with the performance capabilities of real PC functionality. It takes advantage of this fact to enable ordinary users to install a multiseat PC giving 2 "seats" with a dual-core CPU or 4 "seats" with a quad-core CPU. The operating system of this PC is initially installed just like a regular PC. Regular PC users can install and use this type of product without having to install servers, or know how to manage complicated, server based computing or server based virtualization products. It has the combined benefits of a Type 1 hypervisor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor#Classification) and a Type 2 hypervisor virtual machine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine). It does this with the efficiency of a Type 1 hypervisor while maintaining the portability of a Type 2 hypervisor.

[nodoze]

The only thing that maybe somewhat virtualization related that I have seen Blizz discuss as problematic was "Cloud Computing" but that is not the same thing as a local VM host or VM.

[jak3676]

For myself, I chose 7 mini pc
https://www.amazon.com/Microtella-Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M75Q-1-DisplayPort/dp/B07WPFQ5CT/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Lenovo%2BM715q%2BTiny&qid=1604996066&s=electronics&sr=1-19&th=1

I like it. Much more compact than what I'm looking at doing. I'll probably go with https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3020-SFF-Desktop/dp/B075WYN1JL, then add some 1/2 height Nvidia GT 1030 or 1050s depending what is cheap at the time. (1030's are about $90 new where 1050's are about $150, but there's always a ton of used 1050's on ebay an the like with people upgrading to "good" graphics cards - so used prices are actually similar)

[nodoze]

For myself, I chose 7 mini pc
https://www.amazon.com/Microtella-Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M75Q-1-DisplayPort/dp/B07WPFQ5CT/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Lenovo%2BM715q%2BTiny&qid=1604996066&s=electronics&sr=1-19&th=1
I like it. Much more compact than what I'm looking at doing. I'll probably go with https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-3020-SFF-Desktop/dp/B075WYN1JL, then add some 1/2 height Nvidia GT 1030 or 1050s depending what is cheap at the time. (1030's are about $90 new where 1050's are about $150, but there's always a ton of used 1050's on ebay an the like with people upgrading to "good" graphics cards - so used prices are actually similar)My systems are in between yours physical dimension-wise. All of mine are older pre-Ryzen 4core AMD APUs in mini-ATX Motherboards with ~256GB SSDs with no Discrete Graphic cards and are fine for WoW. Mine are all running 16GB but would be fine at 8GB for WoW.

In my case until recently those 4 boxes were for upto 4 of my kids to play on with each mirroring their screen to a quadrant in my 4-input Dell monitor so that isn't really multiboxing but would have been fine if I had been multiboxing on all of them so I think you both have a good chance of being successful with those setups.

If possible even in a hardware broadcast/multicast setup, I would do your keybinds without multicasting 1 of your actions to actually do something in more than 1 wow client at a time. Even if you do use a synchronous USB for your DPS clients (or even all 5 of your clients) you can still eliminate 1 of your keystrokes causing simultaneous action in more than 1 wow client by keybinding different keys in each wow client... In that approach if you press 3 keys to do Arcane Explosion in 3 mages you are still only doing 1 keypress per AE because for each key pressed 2 mages ignore unbound keys sent to them...

For example on the Koolerton, if you had 3 white keys in a row set to send 1 2 and 3 respectively you would in your 3 mages the following keybinds:

-Mage 1: Keybind 1 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 2 & 3;
-Mage 2: Keybind 2 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 3;
-Mage 3: Keybind 3 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 2;

If you do that you are hopefully future proofing your setups and in keeping with both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law... That hopefully will help keep us from all having to buy FrankenBoards (TM).

With the above approach technically a single Koolertron could easily have enough keys to do all your main needs and be always multicasting via the syncronous USB to all 5 WoW clients with no single keypress causing more than 1 action in 1 wow client at a time.

With this Koolertron there are plenty of keys and even a 4MP could easily have 4 Keys set up for each main spell with plenty to spare. If you want to do them to cast pretty much at the same time then press the 4 keys... If you want to Round Robin something then press them in sequence in the row.

Very straight forward to organize and the keys could even be color codes and/or labeled with icons if desired:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LRJ528
(https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LRJ528)
In the end I suspect enough people will multicast and even the above may not be allowed and we may be forced to use certified compliant FrakenBoards (TM) (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57977-No-broadcast-software-ideas-for-multiboxing?p=433398&viewfull=1#post433398).

[nodoze]

I use Aster to split my PC with my girl friend, the software allows to split monitor/resources/windows user/inputs/sound on the same machine.

Free VM Solutions didn't offer the ease of use / setup and from what I found. (I opted for paid windows instead of free linux so to say)
...
I also just put the VM as a reference, I should have said, multiseat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization

Multiseat desktop virtualization is an entirely new methodology which combines the cost saving benefits and ease of maintenance of server based computing, the time savings of hardware agnostic cloning, and the capabilities of desktop virtualization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_virtualization), with the performance capabilities of real PC functionality. It takes advantage of this fact to enable ordinary users to install a multiseat PC giving 2 "seats" with a dual-core CPU or 4 "seats" with a quad-core CPU. The operating system of this PC is initially installed just like a regular PC. Regular PC users can install and use this type of product without having to install servers, or know how to manage complicated, server based computing or server based virtualization products. It has the combined benefits of a Type 1 hypervisor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor#Classification) and a Type 2 hypervisor virtual machine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine).

It does this with the efficiency of a Type 1 hypervisor while maintaining the portability of a Type 2 hypervisor.EDIT: HEADS UP THAT MULTIPLE FOLK HAVE HAD ISSUES GETTING THE KOOLERTRON KEYPADS WORKING THROUGH THE SHUONE KM SYNCHRONIZER... IF YOU HAVE A KOOLERTRON YOU SHOULD USE THE AMIOS KM DEVICES (or someone other than ShuOne).

IF YOU GET A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD/KEYPAD WITH HARDWARE STORED MACROS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCRONIZER PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT MODEL(S) YOU FIND ARE WORKING by putting updates into this thread (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/58028-Input-Device-compatibility-testing-with-KVM-amp-KM-switches)...

Aster is working to 5box WoW for at least one person but another person who tried Multiseat Configuration software (Aster) found it slow for WoW and switched to Virtual Machines (VMs) via VMware (or Virtual Box, etc)...

I think bpkdasbsaum is onto something here when looking at MultiSeat Desktop Virtualization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization)... Full VMs have significantly more overhead and complexity than a Multiseat Configuration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration) (MC) which in some approaches can give multiple unique desktops with only 1 install of the Operating System. VMs are also a fine approach and cheaper than buying separate PCs but just have more overhead than a MC needing more RAM/CPU/storage and typically 1 copy of the Operating System and a full install of WoW per VM...

I need to double-check all of the below when I have more time but this could save folk lots of money so I figured best to get this out here ASAP even if I don't have time to double-check everything...

Those looking at buying 4+ more PCs to do multiboxing may be well served to look into this more. Your current system may already have more than enough resources to do this in most areas and thus could result in both a cheaper outlay of cash and a better experience going forward. This approach may well also save energy/space/complexity/etc...

For example my current system has plenty of RAM and CPU and I am pretty sure my discrete video card natively supports upto 4 monitors and that is before any display port hubs/extensions & not counting the built in graphics on my CPU/motherboard which may be fine to support 1 WoW client "follower" at low settings/resolutions. I am thinking to support 5 MultiSeat Virtual desktops running WoW from my current PC I should at most need to add 1 video card and maybe a USB extender for KM for the desktops.

Target 5box setup (credit most of this concept from bpkdasbsaum):


Run 5x Windows Desktops on 1 PC via MultiSeat Virtualization (or via regular VMs);
Each Windows Desktop (or VM) runs one wow client;
Primary Windows Desktop does Video to Primary monitor;
4 other Virtual Desktops do Video to a 2nd Monitor in a quad layout (multiple ways to do this);
Primary Desktop has dedicated main keyboard+Mouse;
Use "synergy-like" software to allow your main keyboard+mouse to "float" between all 5 desktops (one at a time);
Small keypad (or 2nd keyboard) to send game commands to all 5 desktops (1 keypad to control all 5 game clients) via KM synchronizer; Could also have a 2nd mouse here for ground AoE targeting...


I am thinking that many people could do the above resulting in a pretty nice setup leveraging what they have and only spending something like:

$0: Leverage your current main multiboxing PC as much as possible;
$0-$99?: VMs or MultiSeat desktop virtualization software (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization) (try Aster_here (https://www.ibik.ru/) ... There are likely multiple vendors and possibly some decent free Open Source options);
$0-$?: If current MotherBoard/IntegratedGraphics + Discrete Video Card can't support 5 monitors then you likely will need to add something like a Display Port Hub or a 2nd Video Card. Even a really nice Video card may be better and cheaper than buying 4+ more video cards &/or 4+ PCs...
$0-$9-$26: I currently have at least 6 unused USB ports on my PC which may be enough... If you don't have enough USB ports you may need to buy an external USB hub/switch (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0835LG1LP) OR a PCI card that adds more USB ports (https://smile.amazon.com/Inateck-Express-15-Pin-Connector-KT5001/dp/B00FPIMJEW)...
$0-$29: Open Source "Synergy-like" Barrier software (https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/releases) that allows your main mouse/keyboard travel to all 5 desktops... That or buy the Synergy software (https://members.symless.com/purchase); Note that the MultiSeat Virtualization software (Aster?) may have built in tools/capabilities for this.
$35-$?: KM Syncronizer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8): Likely needed for either approach. Included cables likely work easier if you are just connecting them all to the same PC...
$55-$77: 2nd Keypad for KM Syncronizer: Likely something like this 23key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/Koolertron-Mechanical-Keyboard-One-Handed-Programmable/dp/B07KT3RR56/) or this 48key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LRJ528) would be ideal depending on how many keys you need for all 5 clients to do all the roles (Classic WoW is pretty basic). You should be able to feed this to all 5 Desktops for gaming from one single keypad and just bind different keybinds per wow client*...
$78: If using Aster 4x1 Quad Multi-viewer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q3JK5MY/) to use just 1 monitor to see 4 outputs (if using VMs you can't use this and instead just put the VMs on a 2nd monitor);
0$-$79-$?: If you don't already have 2 monitors you likely will need a 2nd Monitor (https://smile.amazon.com/Acer-R240HY-bidx-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07BHPH61J) for 4 clients via the above multiview; Obviously you can get bigger/better monitors to your taste at more expense... Some existing monitors can handle multiple inputs or Picture in Picture or Picture by Picture so this all may be do-able in 1 existing monitor...

Rough Total: ~$168 to ~$400 depending on what you already have and can leverage. Does not include cost of a 2nd Video card nor cables if you need them.

That is all I have time for now to spec out but I wanted to put this down ASAP for folk considering buying 4+ small PCs for multiboxing... Even if your existing computers can't handle the extra overhead of multiseat desktop virtualization you may be able to keep your current PC for your main WoW client and just buy a 2nd slightly better PC for less than buying 4 weaker PCs...

*For those not clear what I envision by using 1 keypad for all 5 virtual desktops, the following is a simplified example:

If your goal was to have 3 keys in a row to allow 3 different mages to each shoot FrostBolts, you could configure them as follows and use 1 keyboard to control all 3 and not MultCast even when using a synchronizer:

-Mage 1: Keybind 1 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 2 & 3;
-Mage 2: Keybind 2 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 3;
-Mage 3: Keybind 3 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 2;

Similarly, Healing keys would only be bound on the Healer (and the other 4 clients would ignore the key-presses as they don't have that key bound...

Same thing for Tanking keys (if you are not running a 4DPS+Healer team)...

[skeezy]

I think bpkdasbsaum is onto something here when looking at MultiSeat Desktop Virtualization...

I need to double-check all of the below when I have more time but this could save folk lots of money so I figured best to get this out here ASAP even if I don't have time to double-check everything...

Those looking at buying 4+ more PCs to do multiboxing may be well served to look into this more. Your current system may already have more than enough resources to do this in most areas and thus could result in both a cheaper outlay of cash and a better experience going forward. This approach may well also save energy/space/complexity/etc...

For example my current system has plenty of RAM and CPU and I am pretty sure my discrete video card natively supports upto 4 monitors and that is before any display port hubs/extensions & not counting the built in graphics on my CPU/motherboard which may be fine to support 1 WoW client "follower" at low settings/resolutions. I am thinking to support 5 MultiSeat Virtual desktops running WoW from my current PC I should at most need to add 1 video card and maybe a USB extender for KM for the desktops.

Target 5box setup (credit most of this concept from bpkdasbsaum):


Run 5x Windows Desktops on 1 PC via MultiSeat Virtualization (not regular VMs);
Each Window Desktop runs one wow client;
Primary Windows Desktop does Video to Primary monitor;
4 other Virtual Desktops do Video to a 2nd Monitor in a quad layout (multiple ways to do this);
Primary Desktop has dedicated main keyboard+Mouse;
Use "synergy-like" software to allow your main keyboard+mouse to "float" between all 5 desktops (one at a time);
Small keypad to send game commands to all 5 desktops (1 keypad to control all 5 game clients) via KM synchronizer; Could also have a 2nd mouse here for ground AoE targeting...


I am thinking that many people could do the above resulting in a pretty nice setup leveraging what they have and only spending something like:

$0: Leverage your current main multiboxing PC as much as possible;
$0-$99?: MultiSeat desktop virtualization software (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization) (not necessarily Aster (https://secure.avangate.com/order/checkout.php?PRODS=4665361&QTY=1&CART=1&CARD=1) as there are likely multiple vendors and possibly some decent free Open Source options);
$0-$?: If current MotherBoard/IntegratedGraphics + Discrete Video Card can't support 5 monitors then you likely will need to add something like a Display Port Hub or a 2nd Video Card. Even a really nice Video card may be better and cheaper than buying 4+ more video cards &/or 4+ PCs...
$0-$9-$26: I currently have at least 6 unused USB ports on my PC which may be enough... If you don't have enough USB ports you may need to buy an external USB hub/switch (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0835LG1LP) OR a PCI card that adds more USB ports (https://smile.amazon.com/Inateck-Express-15-Pin-Connector-KT5001/dp/B00FPIMJEW)...
$0-$29: Open Source "Synergy-like" Barrier software (https://github.com/debauchee/barrier/releases) that allows your main mouse/keyboard travel to all 5 desktops... That or buy the Synergy software (https://members.symless.com/purchase); Note that the MultiSeat Virtualization software (Aster?) may have built in tools/capabilities for this.
$35-$?: KM Syncronizer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8): Likely needed for either approach. Included cables likely work easier if you are just connecting them all to the same PC...
$55-$77: 2nd Keypad for KM Syncronizer: Likely something like this 23key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/Koolertron-Mechanical-Keyboard-One-Handed-Programmable/dp/B07KT3RR56/) or this 48key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LRJ528) would be ideal depending on how many keys you need for all 5 clients to do all the roles (Classic WoW is pretty basic). You should be able to feed this to all 5 Desktops for gaming from one single keypad and just bind different keybinds per wow client*...
$78: 4x1 Quad Multi-viewer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q3JK5MY/) to use just 1 monitor to see 4 outputs;
0$-$79-$?: If you don't already have 2 monitors you likely will need a 2nd Monitor (https://smile.amazon.com/Acer-R240HY-bidx-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07BHPH61J) for 4 clients via the above multiview; Obviously you can get bigger/better monitors to your taste at more expense... Some existing monitors can handle multiple inputs or Picture in Picture or Picture by Picture so this all may be do-able in 1 existing monitor...

Rough Total: ~$168 to ~$400 depending on what you already have and can leverage. Does not include cost of a 2nd Video card nor cables if you need them.

That is all I have time for now to spec out but I wanted to put this down ASAP for folk considering buying 4+ small PCs for multiboxing... Even if your existing computers can't handle the extra overhead of multiseat desktop virtualization you may be able to keep your current PC for your main WoW client and just buy a 2nd slightly better PC for less than buying 4 weaker PCs...

*For those not clear what I envision by using 1 keypad for all 5 virtual desktops, the following is a simplified example:

If your goal was to have 3 keys in a row to allow 3 different mages to each shoot FrostBolts, you could configure them as follows and use 1 keyboard to control all 3 and not MultCast even when using a synchronizer:

-Mage 1: Keybind 1 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 2 & 3;
-Mage 2: Keybind 2 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 3;
-Mage 3: Keybind 3 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 2;

Similarly, Healing keys would only be bound on the Healer (and the other 4 clients would ignore the key-presses as they don't have that key bound...

Same thing for Tanking keys (if you are not running a 4DPS+Healer team)...

So theoretically you could use a program like Aster, and set it to float your keyboard between the desktops and keep it within the new 1-1-1 rule? Like a ISboxer round robin set up but without going through Innerspace.

[jak3676]

you could. But if you're going for a round robin type setup, I don't think you need any sort of virtualization at all (no need for aster). You can macro some "alt-esc" keybinds into your normal rotation.

[skeezy]

you could. But if you're going for a round robin type setup, I don't think you need any sort of virtualization at all (no need for aster). You can macro some "alt-esc" keybinds into your normal rotation.


Good Call, Seems to be working well so far, just need a to tweak a few of my macros and change a few keybinds and i should be running again :)
Ill have to get my stream set up set up again lol.

[nodoze]

you could. But if you're going for a round robin type setup, I don't think you need any sort of virtualization at all (no need for aster). You can macro some "alt-esc" keybinds into your normal rotation.
Good Call, Seems to be working well so far, just need a to tweak a few of my macros and change a few keybinds and i should be running again :)
Ill have to get my stream set up set up again lol.My main problem with the Alt-Esc approach is that it is relative to the last window you were on and only goes to the next window. That works pretty well for the DPS but doesn't really help for the Tank/Healer as much.

You may actually have a better result from incorporating both approaches... For example for Tank+Healer+3DPS:

You could do Tank & Healer on your primary desktop where you drive from the Tank and mainly use the mouse to heal from the healer like 'Tuts does here (https://youtu.be/B45FL6aOT7k?t=466)'

Then via hardware (KM synchronizer) send round robin keybinds with alt-esc to the 3DPS which could be together on a single PC/VM/Virtual-Desktop.

At most it would be a 2 PC setup but could easily be a single PC setup (via PC+VM or regular desktop+virtual desktop).

[skeezy]

My main problem with the Alt-Esc approach is that it is relative to the last window you were on and only goes to the next window. That works pretty well for the DPS but doesn't really help for the Tank/Healer as much.

You may actually have a better result from incorporating both approaches... For example for Tank+Healer+3DPS:

You could do Tank & Healer on your primary desktop where you drive from the Tank and mainly use the mouse to heal from the healer like 'Tuts does here (https://youtu.be/B45FL6aOT7k?t=466)'

Then via hardware (KM synchronizer) send round robin keybinds with alt-esc to the 3DPS which could be together on a single PC/VM/Virtual-Desktop.

At most it would be a 2 PC setup but could easily be a single PC setup (via PC+VM or regular desktop+virtual desktop).

Yes, movement with the alt-esc is awkward at best and wasnt very fun running dungeons like that, and you can't use the mouse make window active feature as your mouse cycles to the window that is being activated with alt-esc
I normally Drive from my healer and switch to Tank as needed, Very Rarely did I drive from a DPS toon.
I am leaning towards a 2 PC set up- I have a KM Synchronizer on its way. Though I probably don't need one should just go the Virtual Route, Hence my original question about Aster.
My 2nd PC is a laptop, so i can attach a mouse directly to it if i need one, was gonna connect my keypad to the KM and have it broadcast the dps macro. Would just need to rebind the movement keys so the toons on the 2nd pc dont run away.

[nodoze]

HEADS UP THAT MULTIPLE FOLK ARE HAVING ISSUES GETTING THE KOOLERTRON KEYPADS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCHRONIZER...

IF YOU GET YOUR KOOLERTRON WORKING WITH THIS KM SWITCH OR ANOTHER ONE PLEASE REPLY TO THIS THREAD...

IF YOU GET A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD/KEYPAD WITH HARDWARE STORED MACROS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCRONIZER PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT MODEL(S) YOU FIND ARE WORKING...
... I need to double-check all of the below when I have more time but this could save folk lots of money so I figured best to get this out here ASAP even if I don't have time to double-check everything...
...
Target 5box setup (credit most of this concept from bpkdasbsaum):


Run 5x Windows Desktops on 1 PC via MultiSeat Virtualization (not regular VMs);
Each Window Desktop runs one wow client;
Primary Windows Desktop does Video to Primary monitor;
4 other Virtual Desktops do Video to a 2nd Monitor in a quad layout (multiple ways to do this);
Primary Desktop has dedicated main keyboard+Mouse;
Use "synergy-like" software to allow your main keyboard+mouse to "float" between all 5 desktops (one at a time);
Small keypad to send game commands to all 5 desktops (1 keypad to control all 5 game clients) via KM synchronizer; Could also have a 2nd mouse here for ground AoE targeting...


I am thinking that many people could do the above resulting in a pretty nice setup leveraging what they have and only spending something like:

...
$35-$?: KM Syncronizer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZSZFL8): Likely needed for either approach. Included cables likely work easier if you are just connecting them all to the same PC...
$55-$77: 2nd Keypad for KM Syncronizer: Likely something like this 23key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/Koolertron-Mechanical-Keyboard-One-Handed-Programmable/dp/B07KT3RR56/) or this 48key-Keypad (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LRJ528) would be ideal depending on how many keys you need for all 5 clients to do all the roles (Classic WoW is pretty basic). You should be able to feed this to all 5 Desktops for gaming from one single keypad and just bind different keybinds per wow client*
...

...I will also try to update the post above to reflect this (and update it further if things change)... If we find another keyboard/keypad that stores the macros in the hardware I will try to update this to reflect that as well.

So far the only device confirmed working with programmable buttons though the ShuOne KM sync switch are:
- Razer Naga Trinity mouse works great with all key mappings;

Tested against an Aimos 4 port switch (not confirmed for ShuOne yet):
- Razer Orbweaver;

More details on testing in this thread (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/58015-How-to-make-direct-slot-swapping-usable-with-the-ShuOne-8-port-KM-Synchronizer?p=433606#post433606)...

EDIT: Tracking of Testing is now being done here so it is in one place in one easily accessible post:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/58028-Input-Device-compatibility-testing-with-KVM-amp-KM-switches

[nodoze]

... Since only software was named in the policy update I plan on switching to hardware solution with one PC and Aster (Edit: Multiseat desktop virtualization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_desktop_virtualization) superior to VM) setup:
...
Additional Hardware ordered:

8 ports KVM switch USB synchronizer ...

Goal
Run 5x Windows via Aster (https://www.ibik.ru/)
Keyboard sends a signal to the KVM switch USB synchronizer
Each Windows receives it's own hardware keyboard signal
Each Windows runs one wow client
4 slaves run on 4k display via 4x 1080p PBP
1 master on main displaybpkdasbsaum,

How are things progressing?

Did you get in your hardware in and were you able to do any testing with your 4MP &/or Warrior3MP teams?

The reason I ask in part is because another friend has been doing some 5box testing with Aster and is seeing decreases networking performance with the WoW clients disconnecting.

I think so far he has been using 1 Network Interface Card (NIC) and I recommended he try 2+ NICs...

Are you seeing anything similar?

How many NICs are you using?

[bpkdasbaum]

bpkdasbsaum,

How are things progressing?

Did you get in your hardware in and were you able to do any testing with your 4MP &/or Warrior3MP teams?

The reason I ask in part is because another friend has been doing some 5box testing with Aster and is seeing decreases networking performance with the WoW clients disconnecting.

I think so far he has been using 1 Network Interface Card (NIC) and I recommended he try 2+ NICs...

Are you seeing anything similar?

How many NICs are you using?

Kinda meh ¬_¬

KVM arrived a few days ago, didn't have time to deal with it properly until Saturday.
15h+ Troubleshooting Sound and Display issues (non multibox related).
Setting up the KVM and displays was straight forward, but my GFs PC didn't have sound as a result and multiseat has limitations for displays/graphic card assignment. I found out that my IGFX couldn't output sound for some reason, but ports on normal gfx cards worked fine, attempted to trouble shoot that for hours, couldn't find a solution, opted for workaround.

Didn't have any disconnect issues while multiboxing, but didn't have time for extended testing, was only standing in town and checked out how controls work for about 10-15min. I am using and integrated card from my motherboard (ASUS PRIME-Z270-A) Intel® I219V, 1 x Gigabit LAN Controller

Gotta say it's shitty to play / control right now _ _"

Struggles/issues to overcome:

1. battle.net app issues
- only 1 login per bnet possible , if you login on the second machine, it logs out the first.
- install directory shared can't install bnet app per user with individual settings
- only 1 install path can be selected (I have each wow in seperate directory with symbolic links)

Workaround: Create shortcut to each wowclassic.exe and start wow on each client. wow account and settings are saved per wow login (due to individual config.wtf)

2. Control and starting

It's apain the ass to switch to each display and start wow on each of them
display settings reset everytime I switch from extended view to 4x PBP (I have to set my other monitor as main every time)

M>ouse/keybinding have to be redone completely. I used hotkeynet previously and not all buttons / mouse clicks were sent. I set up my binding, so only specific combinations were sent. This way I didn't have to rebind or change stuff on my main char.
With the KVM, all keypresses and mouse actions are sent. Don't know how to deal with that. Just deleting keybinds won't work, if I for example press ALT Q on master, but the binding does not exist on slave, the slave will still send Q in the game client.

Don't know how to prevent mouse from sending on clients, I don't want left and rightclick to be sent while in synchronous mode)
Can't press 2keys + mouse rightclick same time. Seems to be hardware limit of the switch. If I walk forward, and strafe left right, I can't have freelook at the same time, the camera loses focus (W A/D + holding right click)

3. KVM

Sometimes the KVM shortcuts via keybiard to switch to next port won't work
Mouse feels junky, but works (took me sometime to find the option to switch the mouse mode from absolute to relative)
I got a G700s mouse it has an integrated chip that can be programmed and able to send keys, all additional buttons work.



I wish there was a better hardware solution, with more options of what is sent and what not, similar to hotkeynet
Or someone please make or point me to a KVM, that has real pass through / cloning ^^

[bpkdasbaum]

By the way. I got a slightly different KVM from the us guys.

Amazon in US has the SHUONE.

I got the FJ Gear "FJ-US108" from Aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015621988.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dcO9 nv0):

http://www.fj-gear.com/US108/show/217.html

[Andreauk]

Do you really want to risk your account? I saw this posted earlier:

https://postimg.cc/NLgnSxNN

[bpkdasbaum]

Do you really want to risk your account? I saw this posted earlier:

https://postimg.cc/NLgnSxNN

Woudn't trust too much into a customer support reply. They are known to please you as the customer to get rid of your hard questions so you don't contact again, they give simplified answers and they are not involved in the actual bans from what I understand. Those are done by different teams/developers/hacks team.

Blue posts are a better source, but even those tend to be dodgy or got things wrong in the past.

We know that only software is a bannable offense but multiboxing is still allowed (https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/24258). In your screenshot you (or someone else) ask about multiple mice being tied together while controlling multiple PCs and the customer rep says "no" it's not allowed. That's a bullshit reply to get rid of you, since he can't really answer that kind of question anyway.

If this were the case, anyone who share PCs/home/internet connect and play together like brother and sister or husband and wife would get banned following this logic, which is certainly not the case.

Also think about detection methods. How would warden distinguish between 2 hardware keyboard inputs be it you controlling both mice or you and your brother? Blizzard keeps firing staff and closed one of their call centers recently (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-06/video-game-publisher-activision-blizzard-to-close-france-office). Pretty sure everything is going to be automated, noone is going to follow you around for hours.

TLDR: You will never get a straight answer about this from a customer rep, because they don't know shit.

[Andreauk]

I think if they get a report about you as a boxer and see your characters casting at the same time they would just ban anyway - it's only a matter of time before they do ban it fully.

[bpkdasbaum]

I think if they get a report about you as a boxer and see your characters casting at the same time they would just ban anyway - it's only a matter of time before they do ban it fully.

They wouldn't be able to verify if you are using software or not. Also unlikely that this kind of man power is applied to hundreds or potentially thousands of boxers/botter reports on all realms. It would be easier to automate this rather than have a human do it manually.

[Kaige]

Blizzard's automated reporting system is dangerous, though. It just takes enough people reporting to make you stick out. Pre-mades were cheating in Warsong Gulch by having enough people mass report an opposing team's healer for a name change to get them kicked to the character select screen and out of the match.

You guys are applying logic to Blizzard, which they have developed a history of not using. You don't have to be paranoid, but I would be careful nonetheless. People flaunting the rules about multi-boxing in the past but pushing the limits is what got us here, after all.

[nodoze]

I agree it is somewhat pointless to try to apply logic or predict what Blizzard is going to do...

On top of user reporting, it would be pretty easy for Blizzard to so an automated system looking for broadcasting/multicasting of any type (and frankly not care whether hardware/software based but even that can be fairly reliably determined with the right tools). We do this at my work for monitoring every attempted-login/login/use of our OSes/DBs/Apps and any team competent with SIEM tools (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_information_and_event_management) and Workflow tools could automate a process... More discussion on this topic previously here:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/57973-Why-hardware-boxing-always-also-is-software-boxing?p=433194#post433194

[bpkdasbaum]

Hardware Multiboxing Update:

I finished the setup and took my 5/6 man team for a spin in Winterspring to farm some Frost Eko's (Elite Giants in the South).

It works, it's a downgrade from hotkeynet in regards to smoothness, ease of access, freedom of keybinds, convinience of swapping/rearanging windows.

But it WORKS! That's the important part. The rest can be adjusted/improved from here on out.

Moving on the master feels junky due to the rollover limit of the KVM (max 3 keys). As mentioned in previous post, I am used to mouselook strafing, jumping spinning etc all at the same time. I can get used to it though. Ideally I can find a second KVM that has real pass through or at least 6 rollover keys. If all fails, I will buy the same KVM again. This way I can get 3 rollover for the mouse and 3 rollover for keyboard individually.

Minor Annoyances:

- display resets position and main monitor setup when switching from PBP to Fullscreen
- keyboard shortcuts for switching are not working reliably, have to hit it 10 times sometimes. it seems to work better if a few "normal" keys are sent, then the shortcut to switch. It works 80% of the time on the first shortcut use. I am mostly using the buttons on the switch currently though, it's kinda faster to cycle through.

Controls:
- Had to unbind WASD on slaves, if I ever need to control them solo, mouse walk or arrow keys will do
- All keys are sent, unlike it hotkeynet, I can't block certain keys, so some double bindings had to be reevaluated, moved spells around that were blocked in hotkeynet by excluding certain keys
- Mouse clicks disabled via mouse disabler app

PC Resources:
- no disconnects, stable connection with 6 clients ~1h played, I had 7 running for a few minutes as well (@nodaze you asked about this I believe?)
- 100% CPU utillisation on i7-7700K @4.20GHz (slight OC) while running 6 clients via Multiseat. I can sometimes see characters lagg/skip, but that happened with hotkeynet before as well. Tends to happen less if I play on only 5 chars.
- 5 clients run smoothly
- 16/32gb memory used

Minor good things that appeared by accident
Master is set to 1440p and has a "dead" monitor on the left (the mouse can move into that empty space) slaves are 1080p.
When changing settings in wow the master and slave don't click the same buttons while mouse is active on all 5 PCs. This is convinient

It's quite easy / hassle free to swittch mouse clicks and mouse wheel on/off with mouse disable app.
I put wow and mouse disabler into autorun folder and pinned them to the taskbar just in case.
Everytime windows starts wow and mouse disabler are ready to be used.
I disable mouse wheel first, then right click, then left click last, alt + tab to switch to wow.
When I need the mouse enable again alt + tab switches automaticaly back to mouse disabler app and last position is the left mouseclick setting.
Hitting space reactivates the left click and I can use the mouse again.

Switching Windows/main Monitor around
Found this Macro that covers my needs, as I sometimes play on the 4k and have my discord/browser on the smaller monitor on the right side.
One button switches back and forth between both monitors


/run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1)
/run RestartGx()


/run SetCVar("gxMaximize",1-GetCVar("gxMaximize"))
/run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1)
/console gxrestart




Shower thoughts:

- Maybe I should just upgrade my PC, get a shiny new Rizon and canabalize my current one to give my GF her own full PC. This would make my Multtiseat setup and monitor/sound issues less strenuous and easier to setup
- Need to find a solution for the rollover limit and pass through issues. @Wootenblatz informed me here (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/58052-Looking-for-2-port-PASS-THROUGH-synchronous-kvm-switch)
that the pass through is due to VID/PID hiding, avoid those KVMs if you can!
- I should make a new dedicated forums post for the progress on everything, maybe somewhat of a guide now that I got proof of concept
- Need to disable DCPH and set static IP, update setting in router so I can setup Barrier Software (borderless mouse sharing)
- Automate/save display settings with MurgeeMon App, so I don't have to manually adjust settings everytime I stop multiboxing
-

[nodoze]

Hardware Multiboxing Update:

I finished the setup and took my 5/6 man team for a spin ... it's a downgrade from hotkeynet ... But it WORKS! That's the important part. ...
Minor Annoyances:
- display resets position and main monitor setup when switching from PBP to Fullscreen
- keyboard shortcuts for switching are not working reliably... I am mostly using the buttons on the switch currently though, it's kinda faster to cycle through.

Controls:
- Had to unbind WASD on slaves, if I ever need to control them solo, mouse walk or arrow keys will do
- All keys are sent, unlike it hotkeynet, I can't block certain keys, so some double bindings had to be reevaluated, moved spells around that were blocked in hotkeynet by excluding certain keys
- Mouse clicks disabled via mouse disabler app

PC Resources:
- no disconnects, stable connection with 6 clients ~1h played, I had 7 running for a few minutes as well (@nodoze you asked about this I believe?)
- 100% CPU utillisation on i7-7700K @4.20GHz (slight OC) while running 6 clients via Multiseat. I can sometimes see characters lagg/skip, but that happened with hotkeynet before as well. Tends to happen less if I play on only 5 chars.
- 5 clients run smoothly
- 16/32gb memory used

Minor good things that appeared by accident
Master is set to 1440p and has a "dead" monitor on the left (the mouse can move into that empty space) slaves are 1080p.
When changing settings in wow the master and slave don't click the same buttons while mouse is active on all 5 PCs. This is convinient

It's quite easy / hassle free to switch mouse clicks and mouse wheel on/off with mouse disable app. ...

Shower thoughts:

- Maybe I should just upgrade my PC, get a shiny new Ryzen and canabalize my current one to give my GF her own full PC. This would make my Multiseat setup and monitor/sound issues less strenuous and easier to setup ...
- I should make a new dedicated forums post for the progress on everything, maybe somewhat of a guide now that I got proof of concept ...
- Automate/save display settings with MurgeeMon App, so I don't have to manually adjust settings everytime I stop multiboxing
-Black Friday is approaching and your girlfriend likely deserves an i7-7700K so get yourself a Ryzen so you can treat her right!

Which mouse disable app are you using?

I definitely think a new guide thread would be really good/helpful. Reserve at least the first 3 or so posts and keep the top updated if/as things evolve.

At some point I though you were having performance issues with Aster and were looking at switching to VMware... It sounds like you figured them out so I would definately include in your new guide thread any tips/tricks to finetune Aster for WoW Multiboxing.

[bpkdasbaum]

@nodoze

https://www.murgee.com/mouse-disabler/download/setup.exe
(https://www.murgee.com/mouse-disabler/download/setup.exe)
Edit: I realized just now that I had my wow settings at 100 FPS :E toned that down to 20 per Slave

[killem2]

Yesterday's "multiboxing ban" (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23558957/policy-update-for-input-broadcasting-software) specifically prohibits "input broadcasting software". I'm assuming that effectively bans all the mutliboxing software that we generally use, e.g ISBoxer, HKN/AHK, Keyclone, etc.

In today's policy update (https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/24258), Blizzard did clarify that multiboxing (owning and playing multiple accounts at the same time) is still OK - just that you can't use "input broadcasting software". Why they specifically prohibit "software" instead of more generic ban on "input broadcasting tools", "utilities" or some other wording I don't now. But that does seem to leave a gap open for hardware multiboxing.

There's a whole other discussion to be had about whether a hardware solution would still be violating the intent of what Blizzard did, or whether anyone (including Blizzard) would even be able to tell the difference. Maybe they'd just ban you anyway - seems like that's already happening based on nothing more than mass reporting.

This thread isn't to say that a hardware solution is OK by Blizzard, but I do think its an idea worth exploring. What the options, what are the pro's and con's? I'm scared to even fire up any of the software utilities even if I turn off broadcasting entirely, but that's also a discussion for some another thread.

Generally speaking, hardware is a more expensive solution - and the performance likely isn't as good as the purpose built software we're all used to dealing with. But please share any tips/tricks or test results that may be useful.

I like this solution, I have a surface pro 3 that can run wow, and my gaming laptop. Were you able to identify if you can turn over specific hardware broadcasting? Like I really don't want it for any more than helping me level. It's just two accounts and I really just want my 2nd account to spam some spells while I'm driving.

[nodoze]

I like this solution, I have a surface pro 3 that can run wow, and my gaming laptop. Were you able to identify if you can turn over specific hardware broadcasting? Like I really don't want it for any more than helping me level. It's just two accounts and I really just want my 2nd account to spam some spells while I'm driving.If you are just running 2 clients you likely would be just fine with multiple solutions running 2 clients side by side on a single PC.

If the 2nd account is a healer or an intermittent DPS class (like a hunter who can send a pet and auto-attack or a warlock who could send a pet and quickly DoT and then start Wanding) then simple mouseover solution could work. If you want/need more fast window switching at a software level that is macro-able then I would look at WoW Open Box for a free solution or a JMB trial for a paid solution.

Not to denigrate Hardware based option but for 3 clients it just seems overkill to me to go with a KM switch and what not for simultaneous inputs for just 1 additional character like most hardware boxers are doing. If I were to go hardware based with your hardware I would maybe just get a small numeric keypad for the surface pro 3 to put next to (or just above) my main keyboard (or mouse) and hit that for the 2nd character.

There are also some addons which you may want which can help regardless of which route you go which include EMA, MAMA, & Dynamic Boxer.

A summary of the options can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j6tc7Bi0WNN_NbplgM1mbKcJkv89c4EhbYDN18vuYA4/edit#gid=1566844114

[RCmag13]

Well, i think multiboxing in WoW is over. And i will not return to WoW to play multiple chars. Yet, i will continue to play solo. I also think that Blizzards decision will have echos in other MMORPGs, and probably many of them will prohibit multiboxing too.
Those are dark times for multiboxers.

Doubtful, Blizzard just happened to have enough revenue that removing multiboxers won't hurt their bottom line that much. Besides, there are so many emulator servers that allow multiboxing. I 54 box Everquest for free on an emulator server. Hell, you can even setup your own server now a days pretty easily for many games and create your own rules.

[[BR]DarkFalcon]

I liked the Aster option, just one question, its possible to use a software like Sinergy or Barrier? I can't configure because it's the same PC, any ideas to use 1 one mouse on various 'screens' ?

[yeaunome]

Hardware Multiboxing Update:

I finished the setup and took my 5/6 man team for a spin in Winterspring to farm some Frost Eko's (Elite Giants in the South).

It works, it's a downgrade from hotkeynet in regards to smoothness, ease of access, freedom of keybinds, convinience of swapping/rearanging windows.

But it WORKS! That's the important part. The rest can be adjusted/improved from here on out.

Moving on the master feels junky due to the rollover limit of the KVM (max 3 keys). As mentioned in previous post, I am used to mouselook strafing, jumping spinning etc all at the same time. I can get used to it though. Ideally I can find a second KVM that has real pass through or at least 6 rollover keys. If all fails, I will buy the same KVM again. This way I can get 3 rollover for the mouse and 3 rollover for keyboard individually.

Minor Annoyances:

- display resets position and main monitor setup when switching from PBP to Fullscreen
- keyboard shortcuts for switching are not working reliably, have to hit it 10 times sometimes. it seems to work better if a few "normal" keys are sent, then the shortcut to switch. It works 80% of the time on the first shortcut use. I am mostly using the buttons on the switch currently though, it's kinda faster to cycle through.

Controls:
- Had to unbind WASD on slaves, if I ever need to control them solo, mouse walk or arrow keys will do
- All keys are sent, unlike it hotkeynet, I can't block certain keys, so some double bindings had to be reevaluated, moved spells around that were blocked in hotkeynet by excluding certain keys
- Mouse clicks disabled via mouse disabler app

PC Resources:
- no disconnects, stable connection with 6 clients ~1h played, I had 7 running for a few minutes as well (@nodaze you asked about this I believe?)
- 100% CPU utillisation on i7-7700K @4.20GHz (slight OC) while running 6 clients via Multiseat. I can sometimes see characters lagg/skip, but that happened with hotkeynet before as well. Tends to happen less if I play on only 5 chars.
- 5 clients run smoothly
- 16/32gb memory used

Minor good things that appeared by accident
Master is set to 1440p and has a "dead" monitor on the left (the mouse can move into that empty space) slaves are 1080p.
When changing settings in wow the master and slave don't click the same buttons while mouse is active on all 5 PCs. This is convinient

It's quite easy / hassle free to swittch mouse clicks and mouse wheel on/off with mouse disable app.
I put wow and mouse disabler into autorun folder and pinned them to the taskbar just in case.
Everytime windows starts wow and mouse disabler are ready to be used.
I disable mouse wheel first, then right click, then left click last, alt + tab to switch to wow.
When I need the mouse enable again alt + tab switches automaticaly back to mouse disabler app and last position is the left mouseclick setting.
Hitting space reactivates the left click and I can use the mouse again.

Switching Windows/main Monitor around
Found this Macro that covers my needs, as I sometimes play on the 4k and have my discord/browser on the smaller monitor on the right side.
One button switches back and forth between both monitors


/run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1)
/run RestartGx()


/run SetCVar("gxMaximize",1-GetCVar("gxMaximize"))
/run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1)
/console gxrestart




Shower thoughts:

- Maybe I should just upgrade my PC, get a shiny new Rizon and canabalize my current one to give my GF her own full PC. This would make my Multtiseat setup and monitor/sound issues less strenuous and easier to setup
- Need to find a solution for the rollover limit and pass through issues. @Wootenblatz informed me here (https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/58052-Looking-for-2-port-PASS-THROUGH-synchronous-kvm-switch)
that the pass through is due to VID/PID hiding, avoid those KVMs if you can!
- I should make a new dedicated forums post for the progress on everything, maybe somewhat of a guide now that I got proof of concept
- Need to disable DCPH and set static IP, update setting in router so I can setup Barrier Software (borderless mouse sharing)
- Automate/save display settings with MurgeeMon App, so I don't have to manually adjust settings everytime I stop multiboxing
-
how are you running 5+ workplaces in aster? I have no issues running 4 workplaces off my rtx 3080 alone. But it gives monitor issues if I try to add a 5th monitor. I have tried using my iGPU, and I have tried adding a gtx 970 to round out my WMPWP group.

[yeaunome]

Im up and running Aster x5 with my WMPWP group.

Aster is a bit finnicky when it comes loading up my workplaces. It has to do with the order monitors load up vs how they are assigned. I cant figure out a way to force the order so it works smoothly. To get around it, every time it would load incorrectly, I just make sure I forced Aster to try(and knowingly fail) to start the 4 additional workplaces and then reboot. It can take a couple of times before it 'takes' and all 5 workplaces boot up.

Im running 2 ShuOne 8 ports
One dedicated to Mouse(Naga Trinity) that I drive from my Warrior with
One with my main KB(Huntsman) and an additional mouse(Scimitar) for slaves, as I do not connect my driving mouse to my slaves at all in aster. With this ShuOne always in broadcast mode. It allows the 12 side keys(on the Naga) to register as a KB input so it goes out to all slaves as well. Also it avoids the problem with the mouse losing its position. Works very well.

Running a 2nd monitor for my 4 slaves, same setup as multidayz with the quad multiplexer.

Had to add a 5 port USB card to have enough room for the 10 usb connections for the mouse and kb lolsigh

Warrior is 58, so Im working on binding everything the way I want it and then will start working through dungeons. But I dont expect an issue. Looking forward to leveling tbc.

[nodoze]

Im up and running Aster x5 with my WMPWP group.

Aster is a bit finnicky when it comes loading up my workplaces. It has to do with the order monitors load up vs how they are assigned. I cant figure out a way to force the order so it works smoothly. To get around it, every time it would load incorrectly, I just make sure I forced Aster to try(and knowingly fail) to start the 4 additional workplaces and then reboot. It can take a couple of times before it 'takes' and all 5 workplaces boot up.

Im running 2 ShuOne 8 ports
One dedicated to Mouse(Naga Trinity) that I drive from my Warrior with
One with my main KB(Huntsman) and an additional mouse(Scimitar) for slaves, as I do not connect my driving mouse to my slaves at all in aster. With this ShuOne always in broadcast mode. It allows the 12 side keys(on the Naga) to register as a KB input so it goes out to all slaves as well. Also it avoids the problem with the mouse losing its position. Works very well.

Running a 2nd monitor for my 4 slaves, same setup as multidayz with the quad multiplexer.

Had to add a 5 port USB card to have enough room for the 10 usb connections for the mouse and kb lolsigh

Warrior is 58, so Im working on binding everything the way I want it and then will start working through dungeons. But I dont expect an issue. Looking forward to leveling tbc.Glad to hear another Aster setup is up successfully.

Aster's Multiseat Desktops (MDs) have significantly less overhead and complexity than VMs and should perform better as there is no true virtualization you should be able to do more with less hardware overall with maybe the exception that you need actual video ports (which should be fine for 5boxing).

Were you able to get all 5 desktops to run from the single video card? What do they show up as in the setups (like 2 HDMI and 2 Displayport & 1 HDMI from the iGPU?)?

[yeaunome]

No, nvidia doesnt support more than 4.

4 off the rtx 3080. The quad multiplexer is all hdmi, so I have a couple hdmi to DP adapters to make it work. So 1 is straight hdmi, the other 3 are hdmi to DP adapters, and the 5th runs off the igpu via HDMI.

[nodoze]

No, nvidia doesnt support more than 4.

4 off the rtx 3080. The quad multiplexer is all hdmi, so I have a couple hdmi to DP adapters to make it work. So 1 is straight hdmi, the other 3 are hdmi to DP adapters, and the 5th runs off the igpu via HDMI.Ah cool that you got it working with 2 video cards. I thought I read somewhere that after extensions the max was 8 monitors for some video cards.

Note that there is a lot of bandwidth in a single 1.2+ DisplayPort that can be "carved up" into multiple monitors. I think via Multi-Stream Transport (MST) a single DisplayPort can be extended to 4 1080p displays:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81-gMQw5O7L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The following is a decent depiction of how it could look from a single DisplayPort to multiple physical monitors with multiple cables:

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000128707/how-to-daisy-chain-multiple-monitors-using-displayport-multi-stream-transport-mst

Something like this may allow a single DisplayPort to be 4 displays to then be fed to a quad multiplexer to a single physical monitor:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B083NQSHHD

Not 100% sure that Aster can assign MST monitors to separate desktops but if it can then multiboxers may get more out of a single video card that way.

[Baltyre]

...