Grinder

[thedevilyouknow]

New place for non-specific methods for how multiboxers are generating isk post J1st

Honorable mentions:
- Burners
- Incursion scouts - Multiple videos of these being ran, with and without ISBoxer, also certain builds are now less effective
- Wormhole sites - Don't see too many videos of these being multiboxed, specifically do not SEE any escalation multiboxing videos so my curiosity is endless


Other
- PI multiboxed sounds painful, and the process of multiple characters does not change how the process is done
- Ratting in Null
- Mining....yeah

I'm sure i have missed many, so can any others think of any new ways to do X activities
Also feel free to post videos of multiboxing post J1st (Looking at you Tools)

[Tool of Society]

Currently grinding Vanguards with a paladin ddd 7 domis 2 nestors 1 ore dropper/scout and a perfect booster. I am training the characters to make some changes in composition but that's still a month out.



I have recently created some videos showing all my screens. I won't be doing this again unless I can find a way to decrease the performance hit of the screen capture program. The system lag was slowing me down in many ways from not registering clicks to the overall jerky and inconsistent performance of mouse movements. The extra time required for the setting up of the recordings combined with the extra site times caused by poor system performance resulted in far fewer sites then normal for an evening. Frustrations with settings and system lag caused me to be distracted so I made many mistakes in each video that I normally wouldn't of done. Having said that lets get on with the show.


OTA with a standing warp from essentially the tick of the site before. So this is basically tick to tick with a 70 AU warp to site included.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ4LByLY5T4


NMC with the fleet having just gotten into warp at about 57 AU from the next site.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAaNMlOIiQ


NCO with the fleet sitting at the gate. I only had one NCO recording because I tend to avoid them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-Ifzr7cyM



These are videos of just my DPS in action.

OTA (old setup more expensive)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM


NMC (new setup far cheaper)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Rp0Bq6j7w


NCO (old setup)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZahhEjfAso

[thedevilyouknow]

because im curious, estimated Isk/h assuming you're on your game?

[EaTCarbS]

drone assist in sanctums, decent isk for ratting and the effort involved.

[Tool of Society]

because im curious, estimated Isk/h assuming you're on your game?

FOr me it varies wildly depending on competition and spawns. There was one night the other day I had a system all to myself and I kept getting OTA spawns. So for almost 2 hours solid I had a 7.5 minute tick average.

Generally ticks spread from 7.2-10 minutes.

729m to 972m an hour depending on competition and all that.

The domis are t2 with two t1 resist rigs and a t2 warp speed rig.
The nestors are about 1.5b each (t2 except for one imperial EANM)
The Paladin is all t2 except for 2 federation navy webs, 2 republic TPs, and the corpus x-type LAR (fit for <40% influence)
The Astarte is t2 except for an imperial EANM


The three top videos were really annoying to do because of the system lag. Clicks were failing to register mouse movements were inconsistent. Between the frustration of control issues and making sure my screen recorders and such worked properly I ended up doing rather poorly at times when running the sites. In order to be optimal at controlling the setup I have to basically loop through a series of thoughts so I don't accidentally leave the ddd not firing while I'm deploying drones as I did in the OTA video.

[thedevilyouknow]

If you chuck your paladin fit into EFT with the links running whats the repping EHP?

[Tool of Society]

2459 HP/s in bastion with current skills

2623 HP/s with all Vs

881 HP/s out of bastion with current skills

939 HP/s with all Vs

The paladin pilot doesn't have marauder V or all the armor comp skills at V (IV and Vs).

I don't even remember the last time I had to use a nestor rep on the paladin. Local tank is good enough to take most waves OUT of bastion mode. Although as you know some of the waves can be brutal and when they focus on the paladin I have to either toss a few reps or use bastion.

Highest I've done with this fit is 47% influence and I kept it in bastion mode for most of those sites.

I can refit for with more bling to push the self rep up to 3000something HPS but I only do that for high influence. All the ships get a bigger tank for high influence though.

[thedevilyouknow]

cap stability?

Looking to get into incursions again without using isboxer

[Tool of Society]

It's absolutely stable. There have been fits where it wasn't stable but it had a good 30 minutes of cap even then so it was basically stable.

I ended up giving up on having the paladin as real dps and went for utility modules in place of dps.

1446

[thedevilyouknow]

Paladin has trouble applying damage where it really matters when you're multiboxing a vanguard

Very nice pic with the fits

[Tool of Society]

Paladin has trouble applying damage where it really matters when you're multiboxing a vanguard

Very nice pic with the fitsThanks

Open to comments on the fits. I have some changes planned anyway.

[iThirdAge Solette]

hello, i created this accont just to post this thread, i was only a lurker until now :P

i have personally been doing my c4 static sites (i live in a c5 with my corp). yes i now this is overkill by a lot, but i like overkill :P
i have also tried doing some incursions, just for fun tough, i wouldnt recommend anyone using my setup (its very slow, ~11min sites with warps)
i also love doing pvp with my setup, its really fun :P

the setup i have been using until now has been, 6 gilas and 2 basis. (i use this for c4 sites)
i would also sometimes use 7 gilas and one perfect boosting vulture for pvp if we already had some logi.
i may be upgrading to shield domis in the future for incursions if i decide to continue doing them.

if you have any questions about my setup you can post here or send evemail (same eve name has forums name)

sorry about my english :P

[thedevilyouknow]

why the plate on the paladin was all i could think of, may have a look and get back to you

E: How does the autotargetting system work if you activate it?

[thedevilyouknow]

Hey Lurker :) why no home system escalations?

[iThirdAge Solette]

i do them with my corp, i cant keep everything to myself :P
i usually do loki in the escalations, with the rest of my fleet on standy incase someone rolls into us while we are running sites

[thedevilyouknow]

Wondering, how did you guys build the caps in the hole? did you bring the materials in from the outside or did you mine them?
6+ Falcons waiting on standby?

[iThirdAge Solette]

we took them from low sec entrances, in 1 month we managed to get ~10 caps in, either from direct roaming low secs or low secs from static. when we got a low sec we would check for contracts and get the ship in
what i have on standy varies, i usually keep 1 prober to quickly scan new sigs to know if they are a threat, rest is either gilas (to deal with small tackle) or jamming ships.

[Tool of Society]

why the plate on the paladin was all i could think of, may have a look and get back to you

E: How does the autotargetting system work if you activate it?

I don't actively use the auto targeter. I just wanted to be able to target all the ships in a wave so I needed +targets which the module gives. I have activated it before in NCOs and I've gone whole waves without it actually targeting anything. It's really finnicky about working.


The plate is for oh shit moments including gank attempts etc.

[thedevilyouknow]

I was really excited with the prospect of activating autotargetter and f1,2,3,4,5, etc on all my clients :3

My marauder fits dont have room for a buffer to fit

[Tool of Society]

I was really excited with the prospect of activating autotargetter and f1,2,3,4,5, etc on all my clients :3

My marauder fits dont have room for a buffer to fit

I tried it with the nightmares and it was really disappointing. Although it probably would work decently well in NCOs.

[thedevilyouknow]

shame, would have been a nice way of targeting when multiboxing

Im going to give EVE-O preview a go

[LordsServant]

shame, would have been a nice way of targeting when multiboxing

Im going to give EVE-O preview a go

Eve-o preview works pretty well.

It basically simulates the swapping setup for isboxer. I use it now for my multiboxing purposes - I have no issues pvping or pveing with my current 8 accounts.

You need to pay a bit more attention to your reps/watchlist due to not having things up, but overall it's not too bad.

[iThirdAge Solette]

so you guys are not using isboxer? any reason i shouldnt also be using it for videofx?

[LordsServant]

so you guys are not using isboxer? any reason i shouldnt also be using it for videofx?

The ONLY reason(s) to use Isboxer with eve right now are:

1. Videofx to get a better screen layout so you can see all the info at once (preview just lets you swap much quicker, and gives you smaller thumbnails to look at).
2. Hardware Management. Isboxer lets you control more directly how your CPU cores handle things, along with throttling background instances of the game. This is all doable without isboxer, but requires a lot of work to setup and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll fuck things up horribly.

[iThirdAge Solette]

The ONLY reason(s) to use Isboxer with eve right now are:

1. Videofx to get a better screen layout so you can see all the info at once (preview just lets you swap much quicker, and gives you smaller thumbnails to look at).
2. Hardware Management. Isboxer lets you control more directly how your CPU cores handle things, along with throttling background instances of the game. This is all doable without isboxer, but requires a lot of work to setup and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll fuck things up horribly.

yeah, thats why i still use it, just wondering why you guys werent using.
i only use it for videofx tough

[thedevilyouknow]

til they come out and say that videofx is either:
A) okay
B) Not okay
C) Not policed ( -.- )
I wont be using isboxer since i have a feeling they'll ban me even if im not doing anything funky
Or rather i cant take the chance.
Heres to hoping EVE-O Preview goes ahead and impliments hotkeys for the client switching soon

[Tool of Society]

VideoFX was shown as an example of client modification during fanfest. I don't use it because of that simple reason. I think CCP is mistaken and that videofx shouldn't be banned but I don't want to risk my accounts.

I don't use isboxer anymore for incursions because I don't need it. My systems runs the clients fine and the windowed method works about as well as the videofx setup I had before. I know I'm getting reported every time I run and I want to make sure I don't give ccp an excuse to ban me. I've petitioned CCP asking if I could run my NM fleet the same way I run my current fleet and not get banned. I included screenshots and my videos. It's been up for almost two weeks now without a response so I'm hoping it's been moved up.

I do use isboxer's window and resource management sometimes on the second machine when moving the fleet and some other things.

[thedevilyouknow]

I do use isboxer's window and resource management sometimes on the second machine when moving the fleet and some other things.
I smell hammers in your future if enough people get pissed

[iThirdAge Solette]

i use videofx on isboxer on a daily basis, as far as i know i havent had any problems with it, but you are scaring me xD

[MiRai]

This thread started out asking how players are making ISK, so please don't de-rail this thread into a "what's allowed" and "what isn't allowed" in EVE.

[thedevilyouknow]

Was also about how, otherwise it'd be a list of lpossible things one can do and not much else but point taken

thirdage pm me

Still trying to get a nice setup for the way things work with EVE-O
Trying to get into incursions, and then maybe one day, wormholes :D

[Tool of Society]

Was also about how, otherwise it'd be a list of lpossible things one can do and not much else but point taken

thirdage pm me

Still trying to get a nice setup for the way things work with EVE-O
Trying to get into incursions, and then maybe one day, wormholes :D

The other day in incursion chat there were some people complaining about "try hards". One person in particular had a problem with a specific FC of a public community. Basically people ranting for a while. I decided to be cheeky and said "that's why I fly vanguards solo". That was kind of a mistake to say.

One individual made it his/her mission to get as many people as possible to report me via the petition and report bot features for nearly an hour. Probably 4-5 people randomly said "I hate multiboxers".

One of the drawbacks to boxing incursions. You will get reported too.


My suggestion would be to try to find some partners to run incursions with. I know that's what some of the boxers have done. I've teamed up with some newbros for days when I don't feel like micromanaging everything. Sometimes it's a nice break to only control 5 characters :P

I see potential for improvements in my times but it require some changes which take time. I plan to roll out a slightly modified setup in 10 days.



EDIT : What has caught me by surprise is that no one has asked why I run 5 garde using domis and 2 gecko/acolyte domis for dps.

[Krops]

...

[bugme143]

One individual made it his/her mission to get as many people as possible to report me via the petition and report bot features for nearly an hour. Probably 4-5 people randomly said "I hate multiboxers".
One of the drawbacks to boxing incursions. You will get reported too.
Multiple false reports by players will end up with them receiving a temporary ban.

e: to stay on topic: I'm slowly subbing and training AFK/MAZETars for running in Deklein. Lots of money with mazes.

[thedevilyouknow]

Whats the fit with those XXX/tars

I thought the rats would swap targets to drones

[bugme143]

Whats the fit with those XXX/tars
I thought the rats would swap targets to drones

My passive fit:
[Ishtar, AFK Ishtar]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I


Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith X-Type Thermic Dissipation Field


Drone Link Augmentor II


Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II




Wasp II x5

Mobile depot, warp core stabs, cloak, more SPRs in the hold. You run this fit through till the very last gate, then swap for 5x SPRs.
Enter the last room, burn away to 72km. Have Wasps hit the webs first. When you get to 72km, refit to the above fit, grind down tower. BM container, warp off, take a smoke, warp back, scoop loot.

Quote from slayfoe's blog about gates:

The trick to the gates was this. Align your actual view so that you are looking directly down on the gates from above. Then open F11 and align your view (the white cone) to the north of the map. The gate pointing towards the following numbers is the correct gate to take.
Room 1 - 4 o'clock gate
Room 2 - 8 o'clock gate
Room 3 - 12 o'clock gate
Room 4 - 9 o'clock gate

[thedevilyouknow]

thats quite handy, if i knew how or where to find the maze

wouldnt you run out of Mazeszzzzzz before X number of tars?

[bugme143]

thats quite handy, if i knew how or where to find the maze
wouldnt you run out of Mazeszzzzzz before X number of tars?

Each Ishtar is afk running Havens. I have another toon running the escalations when they occur.
Lots of Havens if you join KarmaFleet :D

[thedevilyouknow]

tempted to actually, been wanting to try out even a little bit of nullsec

E: Or rather, null sec ratting and moon goo are one of the few things i have left to try out in Eve, let alone multibox :)

[bugme143]

tempted to actually, been wanting to try out even a little bit of nullsec
E: Or rather, null sec ratting and moon goo are one of the few things i have left to try out in Eve, let alone multibox :)

Lots of opportunities for ratting, not too sure about moon goo tbh.

[thedevilyouknow]

only reason i never tried to is because id have to apply to some null sec corp, and most of them on the recruitment forums have bloody fees for joining

[EaTCarbS]

only reason i never tried to is because id have to apply to some null sec corp, and most of them on the recruitment forums have bloody fees for joining

Well, don't apply for renter corps/alliances.

[thedevilyouknow]

need a corp that wont be so gungho about what APIs i stick in wit the application

[EaTCarbS]

Any decent null group is going to require a full API for good reason.

[bugme143]

need a corp that wont be so gungho about what APIs i stick in wit the application

only reason i never tried to is because id have to apply to some null sec corp, and most of them on the recruitment forums have bloody fees for joining

KarmaFleet requires a full account API, but we don't have any participation minimum requirements compared to other GSF corps.

Pop buy in "PermaCapOsprey" and you can ask me whatever you want w/o having to worry about dealing with a recruiter.

[thedevilyouknow]

Will i full character API work?

[Stevo_]

need a corp that wont be so gungho about what APIs i stick in wit the application

And thats why full API's are required... because you obviously want to hide things

[bugme143]

Will i full character API work?
Sorry, it's gotta be account.

e: But unless your alt is literally Elo Knight they're probably not gonna give a shit.

[thedevilyouknow]

Would they want other accounts apis?

[bugme143]

Would they want other accounts apis?
If you wanted to bring in alts? Yeah.

[thedevilyouknow]

Okay, because my mains alliance wants all alt account apis as well so vov

[bugme143]

Okay, because my mains alliance wants all alt account apis as well so vov
Meh. KarmaFleet's pretty much 75% spies from other alliances, because we have lax requirements compared to the other corps in the CFC.

[thedevilyouknow]

aha fair call

Tbh though im more interested in getting back into incursions, and maybe one day WH C5 farming...then after some farming some glorious overly expensive PVP

[bugme143]

aha fair call
Tbh though im more interested in getting back into incursions, and maybe one day WH C5 farming...then after some farming some glorious overly expensive PVP

Solo C5s net you a lot of ISK too :D

[thedevilyouknow]

Trying to plan out the logistics needed for not only moving into a C5, but moving a few caps into the hole as well for some escalations

Its taken up alot of my brain space atm :)

[bugme143]

Trying to plan out the logistics needed for not only moving into a C5, but moving a few caps into the hole as well for some escalations
Its taken up alot of my brain space atm :)

Eh, one archon, one moros, one loki, and an OGB and you're set :D

[iThirdAge Solette]

you guys ever tough about shield domis for vanguards? just curious if anyone tried

[bugme143]

you guys ever tough about shield domis for vanguards? just curious if anyone tried

Armor domis are better because you can 2-slot tank and have 4x DDAs and a hell of a lot of Omnis in the mids.

Theorycrafted top-level Domi:


[Dominix, Box]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Nanofiber Internal Structure II


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II




Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5

[iThirdAge Solette]

would it be possible to run with 6 of those domis with 1 large remote armor repairer each and a nestor with 7 large reps? (with OGB)

the idea would be to have all domix get the rep on the nestor and have the nestor doing normal logi work

[thedevilyouknow]

That will probably run into cap issues

E: That domi fit made me a little sad :(

[iThirdAge Solette]

i was thinking of something like this for domis:

High power
1x Large Remote Armor Repairer II
1x Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium power
1x Cap Recharger II
4x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Low power
1x Damage Control II
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
1x Capacitor Power Relay II
Rig Slot
1x Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
1x Large Anti-Kinetic Pump I
1x Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Drones
2x Gecko
5x Garde II
1x Federation Navy Garde


(please bare in mind i dont do incursions :P)

[Tool of Society]

I was running last night with around 12% influence. I have one domi pilot that is able to get aggro just by warping on grid. It's the same bloody pilot every time and I can't figure out why. It's the second to last pilot to land on grid and for some reason sansha just has a major beef with that pilot. Anyway I was surprised to find that pilot taking more reps then it usually takes. I thought wow that 12% is worse then I thought. Well after running for a while I took a break and when I came back I decided to try something new so I refit using my nestor and then I noticed that the pilot only had a DCU II ,1600mm plate and an empty low slot for a tank (aside from the two rigs). No wonder full room aggro was hurting it (last wave ota and such). Having said that I was able to keep it alive relatively easily with basically no tank.

Bugme's build isn't actually far off from something I was considering as end game. I wouldn't go for the bling he did but I did think about changing the rigs. All my domis can use drones to max range in VGs with 1 drone link (81 KM and up range).

I will say that going 3x optimal and 2x tracking is way more optimal then you need for gardes. I'm currently insta-killing niarjas and tamas at 60ish KM easily with 4x tracking and 1x optimal on 5 garde domis. When I ran 3x tracking and 2x optimal I really didn't notice a difference at range but up close showed a slight dip in hit % in the combat log. Now if you're running two drone bunnies or can figure out a way to split damage then an extra optimal script might be noticeable.

When you tell 35 gardes to fire at a NPC do all 35 fire even if it's more damage then the NPC has in health? I ask because I have found myself waiting for the garde cycle time before any of the gardes would fire again. This was when I was running all garde domis and 3x tracking 2x omni. I would use my tp and the first frigate would pop before the TP cycle was over so I'd TP again and then wait for a bit before more damage is applied.


EDIT : If you want to run a shield domi then you're probably better off using a rattlesnake.

[thedevilyouknow]

When you over kill with drones, experience tells me that there is a little bit of a cycle time that is applied across all the drones that were meant to fire

OR...its the server tick, hard to tell because if you were to say, rat in a carrier and have X sentries fire at a frigate and insta pop, and engage the next frig, it does take a small amount of time before the damage is applied

But yes, if you want to use shield, may as well run around with rattlesnakes like mosg did, FoF missile rattles with drone assist was something i was really looking forward to see him do more of

You rarely need more than 70+ Km range for drones in VG's because all of them burn straight at you anyways

[Tool of Society]

When you over kill with drones, experience tells me that there is a little bit of a cycle time that is applied across all the drones that were meant to fire

OR...its the server tick, hard to tell because if you were to say, rat in a carrier and have X sentries fire at a frigate and insta pop, and engage the next frig, it does take a small amount of time before the damage is applied

But yes, if you want to use shield, may as well run around with rattlesnakes like mosg did, FoF missile rattles with drone assist was something i was really looking forward to see him do more of

You rarely need more than 70+ Km range for drones in VG's because all of them burn straight at you anyways

That jives with what I've experienced with drones.

That's part of the reason why I roll with five garde domis two gecko domis now. Five garde domis can easily one shot incoming Tamas while the two gecko domis help noticeable with close spawns.

[thedevilyouknow]

Well as long as you have your setup the way you want :) Don't see any worries

If you had a limit of 50m3 of drones, and 50 drone bandwidth with no drone bonus what drones? Meds or 2 gardes?

[bugme143]

Well as long as you have your setup the way you want :) Don't see any worries
If you had a limit of 50m3 of drones, and 50 drone bandwidth with no drone bonus what drones? Meds or 2 gardes?

I'd say 2 Gardes but I have a sentryboner. Could go 1x Gecko or 2x Ogres tho.

[bugme143]

[Rattlesnake, VG Fleet]


Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script


Drone Link Augmentor I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I


Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II




Garde II x2




THeorycrafted Rattler.

[thedevilyouknow]

Don't think you need that many omni......

[bugme143]

Don't think you need that many omni......

:sentries:

For a heavy doctrine I'd swap for Drone Nav Comps.

[thedevilyouknow]

7 Omnis tho :(

Maybe cap recharger to not have to worry about 70+ Au warps directly after neuting?

[bugme143]

7 Omnis tho :(
Maybe cap recharger to not have to worry about 70+ Au warps directly after neuting?
True, but Deltoles never lasted long when I ran sentry Snakes.

[thedevilyouknow]

75 days, and i should be able to get my fleet ready

[Tool of Society]

75 days, and i should be able to get my fleet ready

About 4 days for me before I switch the setup some.

[thedevilyouknow]

what changes?

[Tool of Society]

Well the paladin just finished off the last of the used imperial multifreq. Now everything is usuing standard multifreq which removes one thing to worry about while only mildly affecting the auga death speed.

[thedevilyouknow]

Good ol' crystals, should be a way to combine used crystals to restore the crystal Hp

[bugme143]

Good ol' crystals, should be a way to combine used crystals to restore the crystal Hp
And watch as Imp Navy MultiFreq drops in price overnight...

[thedevilyouknow]

Just old crystals with like 0.88damage i have that im never going to use

[bugme143]

Just old crystals with like 0.88damage i have that im never going to use
Eh, easiest way I deal with those is ship em to Jita and auction em off on contract. You generally get 50% back or so.

[Tool of Society]

Made some changes to my fleet.

Made the tanks more gank resistant. I added the sig radius reduction warfare link to my booster. Since the kinetic/explosive damage comes from torps that means even less damage application on that side. The domis have the biggest sig radius at 305 which is 100 something smaller than the sig radius of the torps sansha NPCs use (Unless my data is incorrect). The reduction in dps from explosive/kinetic side of things allowed me to switch to a thermal rig for more anti-gank tank.

Changed the DDD completely as the character finally completed the skill training requirements. With 3 webs reaching out to 47 KM I no longer need the gecko domis so I'm running only garde IIs now. As a bonus the loki costs 1 billion isk less overall than the paladin and has such a beast of a tank that even with full aggro it barely takes any damage.

I'm intending to make some changes with the nestors as they now have the slowest warp speed in the fleet. With my current fleet I rarely need two nestors at low influence.

Total cost to replace my entire fleet is under 7 billion isk now.

I only have two videos of the new setup as I have been spending a lot of time experimenting. The other video is of a 6 minute 47 second OTA tick with a 42.65 AU fleet warp. Not sure it's worth showing that one too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5jiPjflJ0

[iThirdAge Solette]

i have started today doing incursions with shield domis, going good so far.
i am using 5 domis, 2 basis and 1 loki, no boosts.
still need to get the guns on the domis. thinking of rails, any opinions?
i did some nmc and nco's with an average time of 8-9 minutes.
total price for my fleet would be around 3.5-4B
havent tried the ota's yet tough, never done one before, so im a bit unsure if my tank will hold. min resists in domis are 70%thermal with 619m signature, opinions on if i should try to do the ota's would be nice :P

i have a couple questions i have for you about ota's.
how does the hacking part work? will a t1 data module with minimum skills be enough?
what about the tanking part? any idea how much ehp/sec i would need to have to be able to survive?
how much dps would i need to get decent site times?

[Tool of Society]

I don't hack in OTAs I just shoot stuff to death like player fleets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUadqvuNh4

My DPS breaks down to this.

Domi DPS is 5145 from drones and 1365 from pulses. 4x t2 dda changing to 3x imperial dda 1x t2 dda only adds 42 dps per domi (294 total) while over doubling the domi cost.

Loki has 136 dps with 1267 alpha

Nestors are now rolling 382 total dps with infiltrators (acolytes in the video). Since I'm one shotting the frigates easily I changed the nestors back to infiltrators for that little extra dps on the cruisers and up.


Years ago I started boxing Vanguards with a level iv scimitar and a level V scimitar with a poorly skilled t1 and t2 mixed vulture pilot for boosts (was still skill training). My dps at the time was a nightmare a navy apoc and two navy harbingers... Yeah 15 minute NCO FTW.. My fits were pretty bad and I didn't know the kill order as well so there were some "oh shit" moments. I stayed with NCOs back then and the occasional NMC (brought my ore).



The more DPS you bring the less repping you will need :P

[neic112]

Still, guys, wouldn't the easiest way to do this be with nightmares and a normal t2 logi cruiser?

I may do what ToolOfSociety is doing at the end of the day, but for simplicity sake, I'd still like to go with nightmares.

[bugme143]

Still, guys, wouldn't the easiest way to do this be with nightmares and a normal t2 logi cruiser?
I may do what ToolOfSociety is doing at the end of the day, but for simplicity sake, I'd still like to go with nightmares.
Until CCP sees that they were played for fools, that ain't gonna happen unless you use heavy VideoFX

[Tool of Society]

I have done nightmares the same way. It's just a LOT more clicking since the auto-targeting modules are awful. I have been meaning to make some runs again with the NMs.

[iThirdAge Solette]

my personal opinion is that it would be a lot more work, and you would get tired a lot faster than with domis

[Tool of Society]

my personal opinion is that it would be a lot more work, and you would get tired a lot faster than with domis
The biggest issue is that ccp seems convinced that they MUST DO something about ishtars so thus they are nerfing sentries instead...

[Ughmahedhurtz]

The biggest issue is that ccp seems convinced that they MUST DO something about ishtars so thus they are nerfing sentries instead...

So they're going to nerf all sentry-capable ships rather than just the ship that is offending their sense of propriety?

[Tool of Society]

So they're going to nerf all sentry-capable ships rather than just the ship that is offending their sense of propriety?

Current plan is:
Gardes: -25% Optimal, +66.7% Falloff, -3% Damage, -6.67% Tracking
Curators: -3.1% Damage, -13% Tracking
Bouncers: -3.3% Damage, -12.5% Tracking


Seems CCP wants to turn gardes into autocannons with crap tracking.

[bugme143]

I don't always nerf or change the wrong thing, but when I do, I'm CCP.

[neic112]

I don't always nerf or change the wrong thing, but when I do, I'm CCP.

*I'm CCP Fozzie.

[EaTCarbS]

always nerfing drones because of ishtars. what do they expect when they let a cruiser use battleship weapons with no averse effects?

[bugme143]

always nerfing drones because of ishtars. what do they expect when they let a cruiser use battleship weapons with no averse effects?
Best part is? They're nerfing Gardes the hardest, when 99% of Ishtar fleets don't use them after the previous nerfs.

[IronSatan]

So, in terms of this thread I have 7 toons to play with and I currently run dual basi's and 5 vexor navies in WH space. I kind of want to try incursions but don't think I have enough peeps/dps. My question is can I solo RR Marauder with 6 armor vexor navies and do fine or should I run a different setup?

[bugme143]

I don't think that'd work. VNIs wouldn't have enough tank to survive. You can do 2 basis + loki + rattlers for VGs though, and that works pretty decently.

[IronSatan]

I'll try that once I earn the isk for it. I am bad and spend most of the isk I earn quickly lol. I am testing out dual RR shield Domi's and just adding more Gila's as I buy them for my alts. Super scalable and fairly easy in c3 sites. I think those are becoming the most efficient for me at the moment with my current toon setup. I just use one of the domi's as a DDD and then have the other domi rep and cap him while he caps back and reps the entire group and chooses targets.

[Tool of Society]

I agree with bugme. I've ran a vexor in my fleet before and it was pretty squishy. A fleet of vexors would require at least two solid logi ships.

I'm starting to expect some kind of nerf to drone assist if not outright removal of the mechanic.


The nerf to gardes basically did nothing to my incursion setup. I don't alpha stuff off the field quite as well during the first wave but once I get all teh drones assigned it's business as usual (with 3x tracking 2x optimal scripts). The mara takes a bit longer now :(

[bugme143]

The nerf to gardes basically did nothing to my incursion setup. I don't alpha stuff off the field quite as well during the first wave but once I get all teh drones assigned it's business as usual (with 3x tracking 2x optimal scripts). The mara takes a bit longer now :(
CCP was attempting to hit the Ishtar fleets..... yet they forgot that Ishtar fleets use Bouncers and Curators instead of Gardes because Ishtar fleets are nano kite, not brawlers...

[Jacobsalt]

I agree with bugme. I've ran a vexor in my fleet before and it was pretty squishy. A fleet of vexors would require at least two solid logi ships.

I'm starting to expect some kind of nerf to drone assist if not outright removal of the mechanic.


The nerf to gardes basically did nothing to my incursion setup. I don't alpha stuff off the field quite as well during the first wave but once I get all teh drones assigned it's business as usual (with 3x tracking 2x optimal scripts). The mara takes a bit longer now :(

How does the loki fair in place of the paladin? Also, would you mind sharing that fit?

[Tool of Society]

How does the loki fair in place of the paladin? Also, would you mind sharing that fit?
Positives
The loki warps at 3 au/s without a rig while the paladin with a t2 warp rig does 2.8 au/s.
The loki takes noticeable less damage because of the 82m signature and the 97 emp and 88 therm resists (the kinetic/exposive damage done by sansha are torps and torps can't apply much damage to such a tiny sig).
Costs 900m less than the paladin.
Locks up targets twice as fast.
Provides far longer web reach (47 KM with fed webs).

Downsides
Can be jammed which is fortunately quite rare at 31.6 sensor strength.
I have to pay attention to repping the loki. This isn't much of a downside as the loki usually can go through multiple sites before hitting <50% armor.

One downside for me personally is that when I didn't feel like playing alone I could always team up with other maruader pilots and use the paladin with them. THe loki has no use outside of my fleet with it's current setup.


I can't include an image of my build because of some quota limit.

http://i.imgur.com/BbbAreh.jpg

[gomeler]

Still chugging along with incursions? Resubbed my accounts primarily to feed my main that I recently resubbed. Still hovering at 9-11 minutes/site, need to warpspeed rig my battleships.

[Tool of Society]

Still chugging along with incursions? Resubbed my accounts primarily to feed my main that I recently resubbed. Still hovering at 9-11 minutes/site, need to warpspeed rig my battleships.

When I'm focusing I have OTAs down to around 7 minutes tick to tick.

NMCs are down to around 7 minutes 20 seconds tick to tick.

NCOs are around 8 minutes 30 seconds tick to tick.

Usually though I'm just taking it easy so I bottom out at 7 ticks an hour (850m an hour).

If I get a nice row of OTAs with maybe a NMC I can break 1b an hour again.

EDIT : I've uploaded 2 videos to my youtube account with the new setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUadqvuNh4

My current setup is limited by the garde's 4 second cycle time. I basically one shot a frigate every 4 seconds. I can't figure out a way to get them to split dps. In the latest OTA video you can see me try to split it a bit on the tama/auga and fail massively. There were other control failures which added seconds which then become minutes which then ruin isk per hour. I posted that one to show how despite being stupid I still can do a 7 minute OTA tick.

Deltoles can take as long as 40 seconds to die. This is one spot where the extra dps off the turrets and the nestors really helped me. My dps is pretty awful compared to a real fleet and this is where it's clear. It's what I get for running a dirt cheap setup.

[bugme143]

My current setup is limited by the garde's 4 second cycle time. I basically one shot a frigate every 4 seconds. I can't figure out a way to get them to split dps.

Only way I managed to split my DPS when I was using sentrysnakes was to add another loki :(

[Jacobsalt]

When I'm focusing I have OTAs down to around 7 minutes tick to tick.

NMCs are down to around 7 minutes 20 seconds tick to tick.

NCOs are around 8 minutes 30 seconds tick to tick.

Usually though I'm just taking it easy so I bottom out at 7 ticks an hour (850m an hour).

If I get a nice row of OTAs with maybe a NMC I can break 1b an hour again.

EDIT : I've uploaded 2 videos to my youtube account with the new setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUadqvuNh4

My current setup is limited by the garde's 4 second cycle time. I basically one shot a frigate every 4 seconds. I can't figure out a way to get them to split dps. In the latest OTA video you can see me try to split it a bit on the tama/auga and fail massively. There were other control failures which added seconds which then become minutes which then ruin isk per hour. I posted that one to show how despite being stupid I still can do a 7 minute OTA tick.

Deltoles can take as long as 40 seconds to die. This is one spot where the extra dps off the turrets and the nestors really helped me. My dps is pretty awful compared to a real fleet and this is where it's clear. It's what I get for running a dirt cheap setup.


I presume these times are in 0 influence? Have you ever run at 100% influence? If not, can these fits take the massive resist issues?

[Tool of Society]

Only way I managed to split my DPS when I was using sentrysnakes was to add another loki :(
I was able to get a quasi DPS split by using geckos but I couldn't get it to consistently work.





I presume these times are in 0 influence? Have you ever run at 100% influence? If not, can these fits take the massive resist issues?
Influence doesn't really feel different from 0-20% and the times are similar.

In the early days of my nightmare fleet I did run several VGs while influence was around 100% (it goes down pretty quick even solo). Part of the reason why I ran two nestors then was because it allowed me to run at any influence. CCP has since nerfed the t2 plate so even my old nms have less EHP now. When I finished optimizing my NM setup influence became almost completely irrelevant because even at 100% influence I was removing 4 frigates a cycle.

The early nightmares had about 121k EHP with 76/69/73/71 resists (242m signature).

My current domis have 100k EHP with 76/75/68/56 resists (346m signature).

The current domis have been run in 50% influence without changing the fit. First waves are the only serious problem as it takes time to get drones deployed and assigned. Time that the NPCs are using to shoot me. AFter the first wave everything goes much smoother. Funny thing is NCOs generally feel the hardest under influence.

For higher influence I'd modify the fits on the domis as the loki and nestors are over tanked in comparison. The fourth drone damage amplifier adds about 45 dps so I can replace it with a tank module without gimping my dps. The loki is taking so little damage I'm not even sure if I'd change the fit at 100% influence.

[Jacobsalt]

I was able to get a quasi DPS split by using geckos but I couldn't get it to consistently work.





Influence doesn't really feel different from 0-20% and the times are similar.

In the early days of my nightmare fleet I did run several VGs while influence was around 100% (it goes down pretty quick even solo). Part of the reason why I ran two nestors then was because it allowed me to run at any influence. CCP has since nerfed the t2 plate so even my old nms have less EHP now. When I finished optimizing my NM setup influence became almost completely irrelevant because even at 100% influence I was removing 4 frigates a cycle.

The early nightmares had about 121k EHP with 76/69/73/71 resists (242m signature).

My current domis have 100k EHP with 76/75/68/56 resists (346m signature).

The current domis have been run in 50% influence without changing the fit. First waves are the only serious problem as it takes time to get drones deployed and assigned. Time that the NPCs are using to shoot me. AFter the first wave everything goes much smoother. Funny thing is NCOs generally feel the hardest under influence.

For higher influence I'd modify the fits on the domis as the loki and nestors are over tanked in comparison. The fourth drone damage amplifier adds about 45 dps so I can replace it with a tank module without gimping my dps. The loki is taking so little damage I'm not even sure if I'd change the fit at 100% influence.

Just for thoroughness' sake, has anyone tried a mix of domis and mares? Even though you wont insta volley everything via window switching, I imagine the tracking on the mares is still good enough that they would be an improvement in concert with the domi swarm. Obviously, it wont stack up to what we used to do with all nightmares, but I imagine it should still be very respectable and not have as many issues with target swapping as the sentries do.

[Tool of Society]

Just for thoroughness' sake, has anyone tried a mix of domis and mares? Even though you wont insta volley everything via window switching, I imagine the tracking on the mares is still good enough that they would be an improvement in concert with the domi swarm. Obviously, it wont stack up to what we used to do with all nightmares, but I imagine it should still be very respectable and not have as many issues with target swapping as the sentries do.While back I went to fresh incursion spawn that also happened to be where my nightmare fleet was. I switched out a couple domis for the nightmares. Tachs had serious issues hitting with 3 tc 1 web and 1 TP. Pulse lasers on the other hand had much higher tracking even with scorch. Unfortunately some group prematurely closed that incursion before I was able to get much testing in.

Since the nerf renyns sometimes survive the first volley with 7 domis. So I'm going to have to do more testing to make sure that 5 domis can still properly one shot most frigates.

Current setup with 7 domis in 0% influence peaks between 2500-3100 dps in eve combat analyzer.

[thedevilyouknow]

nice work as usual ToS

Anyone experimented with large projectiles yet?
Skilling my toons for them now and am curious to know if they will be able to track frigs orbitting at range with 2 webs and 1 TC

EFT says yes....but ehhh

[Jacobsalt]

nice work as usual ToS

Anyone experimented with large projectiles yet?
Skilling my toons for them now and am curious to know if they will be able to track frigs orbitting at range with 2 webs and 1 TC

EFT says yes....but ehhh
At one point i was considering a mach fleet with t2 acs, but that chews through a scary amount of ammunition even if it does hit things rather well. However when I tried it for a bit (this was before the boxing bans came out) it worked amazingly well to the point where i was considering running a bunch of overtanked machs to make HQs less of a pain.

[bugme143]

Anyone experimented with large projectiles yet?
Skilling my toons for them now and am curious to know if they will be able to track frigs orbitting at range with 2 webs and 1 TC
EFT says yes....but ehhh

With 800s? Sure.

The problem comes from ammo consumption.

[thedevilyouknow]

is it truly that big of an issue though, i rarely ever use AC's in pve or pvp (never in Pve now that i think about it)
I did use NM's last time so that may explain my lack of ever really having an ammo issue

according to EFT, depending on ship bonuses, 1k ammo for 800mm lasts 555minutes, or in terms of lets say a 7min tick that is (roughly again) 79 sites.

When i was theory crafting AC's it was always an issue of tracking for me since when i did Tach NM's target had to be webbed down by multiple ships to get shots off
I wanted something that could damage on approach and with 2 webs max
So if 800mms work fine thats great, but i guess i will need my hauler pilot to stock up on hoarders :D....and ammo

Different between Dual425s, 625s and 800s? is it just damage, range and tracking?

[Jacobsalt]

is it truly that big of an issue though, i rarely ever use AC's in pve or pvp (never in Pve now that i think about it)
I did use NM's last time so that may explain my lack of ever really having an ammo issue

according to EFT, depending on ship bonuses, 1k ammo for 800mm lasts 555minutes, or in terms of lets say a 7min tick that is (roughly again) 79 sites.

When i was theory crafting AC's it was always an issue of tracking for me since when i did Tach NM's target had to be webbed down by multiple ships to get shots off
I wanted something that could damage on approach and with 2 webs max
So if 800mms work fine thats great, but i guess i will need my hauler pilot to stock up on hoarders :D....and ammo

Different between Dual425s, 625s and 800s? is it just damage, range and tracking?

Between carrying lyavite in the hold and the ammo consumption its frequent reloads. I switched to nms because it made my life soooo much more happy not having to stop for ammo all day.

[bugme143]

where i was considering running a bunch of overtanked machs to make HQs less of a pain.

Most HQ communities prefer Vindicators or Tachmares. A rare few take 1400 Machs, but Vindis do more for the fleet than Machs.

Though with the retarded input ban, 1400 mach cycle time would be interesting....

[thedevilyouknow]

Between carrying lyavite in the hold and the ammo consumption its frequent reloads. I switched to nms because it made my life soooo much more happy not having to stop for ammo all day.

To be perfectly honest i was considering using a prospect for lyavite :D

[Jacobsalt]

To be perfectly honest i was considering using a prospect for lyavite :D

hmm yeah but then thats yet another account to run it and with npcs on field.

[Tool of Society]

Most HQ communities prefer Vindicators or Tachmares. A rare few take 1400 Machs, but Vindis do more for the fleet than Machs.

Though with the retarded input ban, 1400 mach cycle time would be interesting....

Yeah in theory it would take 15 or so seconds for each 1400 mach to cycle. That would give you time to click through to new targets. Each mach with t2 arty could one shot a frigate IF it can hit it. Tracking is pretty awful though.

Replacing a couple domis with 1400 machs was something I have theory crafted too. The machs would speed up the death of long spawns by one shotting the frigates (tachmares require two shots) and then switch to cruisers once everything is orbiting while the domis kill off any frigates surviving.

[bugme143]

Yeah in theory it would take 15 or so seconds for each 1400 mach to cycle. That would give you time to click through to new targets. Each mach with t2 arty could one shot a frigate IF it can hit it. Tracking is pretty awful though.

Replacing a couple domis with 1400 machs was something I have theory crafted too. The machs would speed up the death of long spawns by one shotting the frigates (tachmares require two shots) and then switch to cruisers once everything is orbiting while the domis kill off any frigates surviving.
You don't target frigs in a 1400 mach. You go for armor shots on Battleships. (In HQ sites)

[Tool of Society]

Well in an ota when stuff is at 80 KM you might as well pop a frigate or two before settling in on the bigger ones as I said earlier.

[thedevilyouknow]

according to EFT the 1400mms tracking well if the targets are webbed down enough

If the frigs are approaching as in OTA's then they should technically track perfectly

[iThirdAge Solette]

In my opinion, the thing is: gun fleets can be more efficient in terms of site speed, but when you run for 5hours i think that the drone boats will become better due to not requiring so much micromanagement, you simply drop drones and assist and the rest is up to logi/trigger ship, but then again i never tried to run a gun fleet, so im not sure if guns take as much micromanagement as i think they do

[bugme143]

In my opinion, the thing is: gun fleets can be more efficient in terms of site speed, but when you run for 5hours i think that the drone boats will become better due to not requiring so much micromanagement, you simply drop drones and assist and the rest is up to logi/trigger ship, but then again i never tried to run a gun fleet, so im not sure if guns take as much micromanagement as i think they do

First, hi Solette, we (I) miss you.

Second: Guns don't take too much micro if your skills are at such a level where you kill most of the DPS before it really applies so you don't have to worry about tank levels. For example, Pain's super-thin-tanked NMs. Post-ban though I'd say guns do require more micro than Sentries.

[Tool of Society]

First, hi Solette, we (I) miss you.

Second: Guns don't take too much micro if your skills are at such a level where you kill most of the DPS before it really applies so you don't have to worry about tank levels. For example, Pain's super-thin-tanked NMs. Post-ban though I'd say guns do require more micro than Sentries.

I ran basically the same fit as pain pre-ban. Post ban it's far too hard to keep them alive while trying to micromanage the guns. I have to use two logis and a bit stiffer of a tank mostly because I cannot rely on having free reign of NMC and OTAs like before.

Micromanagement isn't as bad as some people would think as you only have to target a select few NPCs per account. The amount you have to target depends on your fit and the site.

Back in the early days of me running in windowed mode I gave my NMs a try. The video I posted was my first REAL attempt at running that setup. I didn't have tachs as they were 30 hops away :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug

Despite being the first real attempt as such making many mistakes I still finished the OTA in 7:47 which would be about a 8:50 tick with a 50 au warp.

I'm positive I can do much better now.

[iThirdAge Solette]

yeah, good to be back bugme143 (http://www.dual-boxing.com/members/64277-bugme143), i just had some wardecs, so i wasnt able to leave my wh for some weeks :P

i will be back to incursions in a couple days tough, and i think i will be doing some changes to my fleet, im going to add blasters (or rails, depending on how both perform) to the domis, not sure if i will be able to 1 shot frigs with only 5 domis, so im thinking of resubbing 3 of my olf acconts back, wich would put me at a total of 11 acconts, 2 basis, 1 loki and 8 domis.
Any opinions?

[gomeler]

I was running 6x Domi, 2x Nestor, 1x Vindicator, 1x Eos with 250mm rails on the Domis. With the drones from 6x Domis I was able to 1 shot frigates I could track as they approached. Still undecided on whether the Loki or the Vindicator were better, my times were roughly the same but I think the Loki was simpler to control given the massive web range. The Vindi was just over 20km web range w/ faction webs + boosts. I was averaging around ~9-10 minutes including 30-50 AU warps. Not terrible, not stellar.

[Tool of Society]

Pre-garde nerf I was able to one shot frigates with four domis. Now I'm not so sure.

Due to the overkill of 7 domi's worth of gardes I've been experimenting with a modified setup. The domi method is definitely the laziest way to go though.

[Mike Lonestarr]

Hey guys, I haven't been very active, but I've been reading weekly to stay in touch, since mutliboxing in eve is something I still care a ton about.

The input ban hit me way harder than I would like to admit, I lost almost all interest in eve and all trust I had into ccp (Yeah, I really belived into ccp once). Wouldn't have been for RnK, I would have stopped, for sure.

Judging from the outside, the storm seems to have calmed down and I m thinking of running incursions again. ToS style (Still love your vids), no third party program.


I basically have 3 qestions that I love to get some advice from you guys.

- Since I havent been active farming incursions, I have lost the contact to the community and how they feel about multiboxers, you know, are there just local chat attacks, false flag campaigns or nothing of the sort and everybody is nice to eachother?

- Is there still an active eve channel about incursion multiboxing? I know oatmeal ofc, but there was another channel, where lots of the pre ban multiboxers would chat, but the owner closed it.

- Do you guys think, its still important to record your runs in order to protect yourself against bans? Or any other measurment needed to protect oneself against ccp fail-bail-ban-befor-ask system.

[Tool of Society]

Well since I have posted quite a few videos I get more of a pass from haters it seems. People tend to like that I'm not pushing the boundaries when I box. "You just get it on with" as I've been told.

I imagine that if more people are boxing incursions attitudes might revert back to the old ways.


I'm recording samples of my runs still but I lack space to record them all. CCP_Peligro is absolutely convinced that people who run like me having nothing to fear. I know I've been reported quite a lot just based on the occasional hater spewing in incursion chat.

[Mike Lonestarr]

yeah, see, thats something I m also worried about, that when more and more multiboxers come back, it might spoil it for all.

I have no idea how many boxers run incursions and I hope it wont affect it to mutch when I take my Cycling Guns 01-10 out again.

I might record one or two and just put that into the bio of my chars, so ppl see what and how I'm doing it.

As for the channels, oatmeal and isboxers lounge are active, dual-boxing.com and ISBoxer have no ppl in it, so inactive. Those are the channels I found so far.

[iThirdAge Solette]

Well, from my personal experience people hate on me a lot, not sure if its just bad luck tough, but i usually get report treats a lot of times when im running.
I use eve-o preview, but im also considering the option of switching to windowed...
i would have to agree with ToS when he says it will become like the old days if lot of boxers come back tough

[iThirdAge Solette]

How do you manage to 'split' all of the eve windows in the windows bar, ToS?
i mean like, instead of them stacking on top of each other, each character gets a specific window in the bar

[Ughmahedhurtz]

How do you manage to 'split' all of the eve windows in the windows bar, ToS?
i mean like, instead of them stacking on top of each other, each character gets a specific window in the bar

Right-click in the empty space of the taskbar next to the buttons -> Properties -> Taskbar tab -> Taskbar Appearance: Taskbar buttons: "Never combine."

[bugme143]

Right-click in the empty space of the taskbar next to the buttons -> Properties -> Taskbar tab -> Taskbar Appearance: Taskbar buttons: "Never combine."
"HAX! HE'S MODIFYING THE CLIENT AND GAINING AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PLAYERS! PERMABAN HIM!" - Corebloodbrothers

[Ughmahedhurtz]

"HAX! HE'S MODIFYING THE CLIENT AND GAINING AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PLAYERS! PERMABAN HIM!" - Corebloodbrothers


1462

[iThirdAge Solette]

Thats goint to help a lot, ty

[bugme143]

1462

I really should record me doing things with my windows and having a 16-monitor setup (ill have to borrow a few monitors), and other stuff that is allowed but looks "fishy", and upload it to youtube just to make cbb have an aneurysm when he learns that everything I did was allowed and legal. But he'll still foam at the mouth cuz "muh isboxers!"

[thedevilyouknow]

I will be running incursions agian in a months time in either a windowed mode setup like you ToS or using EVE-O
Can anyone recommend a good program to use for the video capture? completely new at that

[iThirdAge Solette]

yeah, i would also like to start recording some runs, but i have no idea how to record multiple screens at once, and i havent found a lot of info on that

[Ughmahedhurtz]

OBS (https://obsproject.com/) works really well for me for capturing to local files, and can capture a sub-window of the desktop (or a portion of a window) rather than either the entire desktop or a single window. It also spits out encoded files, so it's not sucking up terabytes of disk space.

[Tool of Society]

I used OBS for the three screen capture videos. Takes quite a bit of tweaking and playing around to get it to work properly.

I still need to tweak my OBS setup more as it's hitting the systems harder then it should.

[Jacobsalt]

@ Tool: Do you often get a straight up volley in OTAs and NMCs? (if so how many domis does it take with garde setup)? I am trying to figure out if the gardes kill too few right off the bat for them to be worth much in those. It seems like they would not be that good in ncos.

[Tool of Society]

@ Tool: Do you often get a straight up volley in OTAs and NMCs? (if so how many domis does it take with garde setup)? I am trying to figure out if the gardes kill too few right off the bat for them to be worth much in those. It seems like they would not be that good in ncos.

I don't really understand what you're asking.

Every kill is one volley that's why I can only kill one ship every 4 seconds (cycle time for sentries and ALL sentries fire regardless of the target). I haven't had much time to experiment post garde nerf. Pre-garde nerf I could pop niarjas consistently with 3 domis but sometimes Tamas would barely survive. Pre-change 4 domis was good enough to guarantee one shots on all the 9k EHP frigates when properly tackled. The renyns are a bit of a pain and to a lesser extent so are schmaels. I'm currently running with 5 domis for the frigates to ensure even at range things pop in one salvo. I could probably get away with 4 domis but that increases my control requirements which I'm not interested in doing right now.

My current setup is loki DDD, 5 domis (frigate duty), 2 vindis with anti-em screen and t2 burst aerator, two nestors.

I run the shield rigs on the vindicators so I can run with a local HQ fleet when I need a break from boxing and just want to chill but still make isk. That was one of the things I missed once I switched to a loki as without the paladin I had no ship that could run in a more conventional fleet.

Currently the domis are easily handling the frigates and there's not much I can do there to improve times other than run two lokis which isn't going to be very efficient. I do spend quite a bit of time waiting for cruisers to die. SO I decided to try to improve times on the cruiser and larger ships. The deltole in OTAs in particular takes FOREVER to die. The vindis are good for about 1600 dps right now. Unfortunately I never got t2 large blasters on those two characters so they are 18 days away. With void I should be well over 1800 dps each. With "only" 1600 dps they chew through the cruisers and deltole very well. I even find time to sick the vindis on frigates in NCOs. With their .121 tracking and with two webs they can each handle a frigate quickly. It's just they have a long lock time on frigates so I have to do a little mental work to keep the dps spread properly :P

I'll get some videos up once the burn thing is over with and I can more safely run.


EDIT : Biggest downside is slower warp speed and the ammo usage sucks.. Switching to two vindicators increased my fleet sunk cost by 1.2b too. So I'm at about 7.3b isk for the entire fleet now.

To fix the warp speed problem I'll probably cut the t2 hybrid burst to a t1 and suffer the DPS loss for a t2 warp speed rig. I lose about 170 dps doing that with the t1 fit. The t2 fit will lose about 175 dps. It's acceptable for me but I'm not sure what the HQ fleets will say in response to the warp speed rig. Considering some of the shit fits I've seen in those fleets I shouldn't have a real issue.

[iThirdAge Solette]

im just curious why you have chosen to go with armor. i am doing shield domis and its working good, the only problem i get is that in the nco i cant pop some of the frigates in the 4 sec timer, the niarjas and tamas die in 4 secs tough

[Tool of Society]

im just curious why you have chosen to go with armor. i am doing shield domis and its working good, the only problem i get is that in the nco i cant pop some of the frigates in the 4 sec timer, the niarjas and tamas die in 4 secs toughBecause I can always pop any frigate every 4 seconds while also hitting stuff at spawn range in OTAs and NMCs. I one shot niarjas easily at 80 KM.

Each nestor is worth 2x scimitars in repping power while having massively larger buffers in tank..


Meaning when someone tries to gank me they have a much harder time.


EDIT : Would you care to share your fit so that I might better compare on my end :P

[iThirdAge Solette]

my ships are super overtanked, but the pilots dont perfect shield skills. i have 72/70/73/78 resists with this
for domis im using this:

[Dominix, incursions]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II


Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II


Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I




Federation Navy Garde x5


Optimal Range Script x1


i then use 1 loki with 3 navy webs, 2 faction TP's and some guns. for tank i use only 1 dcu and rigs
the basis are standart fitted, nothing fancy there

i like this fleet because i can run it relaxed, just need to assign drones, then play with loki and basis :P. the downside of it is that it has low dps, so in ota's it is a pain to kill the deltolte, and if i get contested there is a big possibility i will lose unless i am already deeep into it
obviously your fleet has a lot more dps since you use 2 nestors and 2 vindis :P

still need to add some guns, still considering if its worth it tough, seems like they dont do that good of a dps
to be honest i dont really worry about getting ganked/losing ships, this fleet is cheap and has paid for itself something like 5 times over already
as always suggestions and constructive criticism are always welcome


NOTE: please bare in mind i dont use a booster, only perfect passive-booster for the shield buffer

[Jacobsalt]

Since we are getting a slight nerf (the dda changes coming in aegis) are we still good with the ability to kill one every 4 seconds? Id imagine there is a fair bit of wait when we have that much volley, so the net loss of about 7% of the dps increase from 4ddas (old 62ish, new 55 ish percent drone dmg) should not hurt too badly.

I like the above points (about the nestors and autokilling in the armor fleet) but wonder if the main problem third's shield fleet has is in fact having to overtank because of lacking a booster?

[iThirdAge Solette]

i dont have the numbers in front of me, but i think that if i had a booster i would be able to drop 1 invuln (even if i had to pimp out the other one), that way i would have 1 extra omni tracking link

EDIT: but yeah, booster would definetly help, even if its just for the oh-shit moments

[Tool of Society]

Your drones have very similar range as mine but my garde IIs with my setup has .089 tracking where as with your setup they have .055 tracking according to EFT.

That's a huge difference in tracking when dealing with all those tiny signature frigates.

Your domi setup actually has more omni EHP without boosts than what mine has WITH boosts. I'm not terribly surprised by that as my setup skimps some on the omni tank in order to be more gank resistant and faster warp (2x warp speed rigs 1x thermal rig). Torps provide the kinetic/explosive side of damage and my boosts include signature reduction which means the torps aren't applying full damage to the domis.

Boosted my domis are 99,627 omni ehp

Resist profile for armor is 76/75/68/56 with 340m sig.



My nestors bring 381 dps each to the fleet along with their ridiculous over repping ability. So basically the two nestors are like having another domi using gardes when dpsing the cruisers and up. I forgot to mention that earlier. I'm going to try assigning the nestor's heavy drones to the vindicators so I can apply dps more effectively as the vindicators are targeting cruisers and large as primary.


The nerf won't effect my ability to one shot the frigates as four domis worth of garde IIs alpha for 11,408 damage. I use five domis so my garde II alpha is 14260 in theory. I overkill because I always assume less then perfect damage application. I'm pretty confident I'll still be able to one shot the frigates post change. I do feel sadness at the overall nerf to DPS though.

[iThirdAge Solette]

i might have more resists, but you have 2 nestor :P
i assume you use 7 reps on the nestor? that means you have twice ad much repping power than me

[Tool of Society]

i might have more resists, but you have 2 nestor :P
i assume you use 7 reps on the nestor? that means you have twice ad much repping power than me

Indeed 7 reps each is the source of the ridiculous repping capability. They can also lock up to 11 targets.

[iThirdAge Solette]

i see... but one of the disadvantages of getting the nestors is that the fleet price goes up by a lot :s

i am also really interested to see how you manage to control the loki and 2 vindis at the same time without isboxer. any plans on making a video?

[Jacobsalt]

i see... but one of the disadvantages of getting the nestors is that the fleet price goes up by a lot :s

i am also really interested to see how you manage to control the loki and 2 vindis at the same time without isboxer. any plans on making a video?

however, to get the same stats as he does on those drones, youd have to pimp every domi. his fit is dirt cheap and super effective.

[Tool of Society]

however, to get the same stats as he does on those drones, youd have to pimp every domi. his fit is dirt cheap and super effective.The middle ground would be to use two cruiser armor logi instead.

Certain characters in my fleet tend to draw aggro at a higher percentage than the rest. With nestors I can use one nestor to put one rep each on those characters so I have time to respond. A lot of the time I pre-set reps and then focus exclusively on the dps side of things. That's why in some of my videos a domi will get somewhat low in armor. That's when aggro shifted unexpectedly while I'm concentrating on dps related stuff. The nestors allow me to be far more aggressive on the dps side of things. Which means lower site times :)

Assigning the nestor's heavy drones to one of the vindi pilot has also helped to increase overall dps. I'm now spiking at over 3k dps in OTAs. Last night I had an OTA tick of under 6 minutes 30 seconds. Since I am still experimenting with controlling the setup my site times have been swinging all over. The vindis are fully capable of taking out frigates individually in NCOs. I just need to get the splitting of dps done better. It's harder then I expected to keep from accidentally killing one of the vindi targets with the primary fleet DPS.

[bugme143]

i see... but one of the disadvantages of getting the nestors is that the fleet price goes up by a lot :s
I used to use 2x 5/1 Guardians on my fleet. One of the bonuses of Nestors is they can field their own sentries to add to the DPS.

[Tool of Society]

Got some good testing in today and I've decided to fail the two vindis.

Pros
More dps spread in NCOs allows for quicker completion (each vindi can handle a frigate well).

I can assign heavy drones from the nestors to the vindi allowing for effectively a second drone bunny.

More overall dps on Deltole in OTA.

When I got it working right overall dps was higher but only slightly faster times.


Cons
Awful range means I was wasting a lot of ammo at times

Aggro has been absolutely stupid. Every single OTA I did with the vindicators the NIarjas would instantly switch to the loki regardless of the entry order or if they were already being shot. For the first time ever I was perma jammed at the start for the first wave in four OTAs in a row. That's with a loki that has 32 sig strength with two of those starts only being 2 niarjas. I had similiar issues last night with jams and niarjas changing targets. Soon as I switched back to domis the niarjas acted like normal and were no problem.

Micromanagement requirements means that I end up doing less dps at some points.

DPS is nerfed because of a warp speed rig requirement to keep up with my fleet. Without the t2 warp speed rig my fleet is noticeably slower arriving on sites.



Overall it's too much effort for too little return.

[iThirdAge Solette]

Micromanagement requirements means that I end up doing less dps at some points.

Overall it's too much effort for too little return.

thats exactly what i mean, when you have more stuff to worry about your dps will be lower than what it looked like on paper due to not being able to manage everything


however, to get the same stats as he does on those drones, youd have to pimp every domi. his fit is dirt cheap and super effective.

my fleet costs in total about 3.5B, the fleet ToS uses would cost ~6B (just an estimate) for the hulls only.

EDIT: but obviously, armor is better than shields in this situation

[Tool of Society]

There was a noticeable improvement in dps in NCOs. If the niarjas weren't behaving so differently there would be a noticeable overall increase in OTA dps. The few times I was able to get past the first wave without being jammed to hell my OTA ticks were under 6 min 30 seconds. Probably because my fleet dps was spiking higher on deltoles. NMCs didn't see any real improvement as I'm killing almost all the stuff outside the range of the blasters.

Null ammo might of helped the situation but I found the frustrations of the radically different behavior of the niarja AI in OTAs to cause the whole thing to be not worth it.

Median prices
Astarte booster 470m
venture ore 6.9m Prospect is 29.5m
Loki DDD 772m
domi 291m x7
nestor 2.150b x2 I use heavy hull/armor II bots and gardes x10

Total cost today without looking for deals for less then 7.6b

Now over the years of me doing this I've only lost one nestor and that's despite gank attempts and server disconnects. The one nestor I lost was last year and it was because I was training newbros and I was super tired. I was about to call the fleet but I decided "oh just one more site" and I warped the nestor to the wrong site.

[Jacobsalt]

There was a noticeable improvement in dps in NCOs. If the niarjas weren't behaving so differently there would be a noticeable overall increase in OTA dps. The few times I was able to get past the first wave without being jammed to hell my OTA ticks were under 6 min 30 seconds. Probably because my fleet dps was spiking higher on deltoles. NMCs didn't see any real improvement as I'm killing almost all the stuff outside the range of the blasters.

Null ammo might of helped the situation but I found the frustrations of the radically different behavior of the niarja AI in OTAs to cause the whole thing to be not worth it.

Astarte booster 470m
venture ore 6.9m Prospect is 29.5m
Loki DDD 872m
domi 291m x7
nestor 2.150b x2 I use heavy hull/armor II bots and gardes x10

Total cost today without looking for deals = 7.7b

Now over the years of me doing this I've only lost one nestor and that's despite gank attempts and server disconnects. The one nestor I lost was last year and it was because I was training newbros and I was super tired. I was about to call the fleet but I decided "oh just one more site" and I warped the nestor to the wrong site.


So you are simply overkilling and not worrying about the 4 second hard floor on sentries? Im considering using a slightly different fit for a good chunk of gecko and acolyte domis to even up the mix. I figured that if I had one vindy with heavies and acos assigned I would realize better consistency. I also figured that I would default to null for that very reason. What I wonder is, would having the 11th person on grid in hisec be that bad or would it allow for more dps and faster sites (assuming: 1xloki with 5x sentry domi, 2x nestor (assigned to vindicator) 1x vindicator, 2x gecko/aco domis?

[Tool of Society]

So you are simply overkilling and not worrying about the 4 second hard floor on sentries? Im considering using a slightly different fit for a good chunk of gecko and acolyte domis to even up the mix. I figured that if I had one vindy with heavies and acos assigned I would realize better consistency. I also figured that I would default to null for that very reason. What I wonder is, would having the 11th person on grid in hisec be that bad or would it allow for more dps and faster sites (assuming: 1xloki with 5x sentry domi, 2x nestor (assigned to vindicator) 1x vindicator, 2x gecko/aco domis?
Yeah I'm back to overkilling right now.

I'm thinking of training one vindi into t2 guns. It'll be 16 days to do so. I was running praetors on the nestors and assigning them to the vindi. The vindi itself was using 5 garde IIs that I assigned to the loki because manually controlling the drones was tedious.

With null I could see a setup where I assign heavies from the nestors and some geckos/acos from one or two domis to a vindi. I liked the two vindis for NCOs because each of them were easily able to handle an eystur solo so I burned through the last wave quickly. The web range limit and the limited gun range were not a factor there and I noticed quicker NCO times as a result.

Since I use an ore runner I have 11 characters on grid for NMC turn ins. It's a slight increase in overall pay. I've been thinking of an ore dropper that can also contribute dps while having a good enough tank. That theory crafting was put off as I figured out other aspects of the fleet.

[iThirdAge Solette]

i was actually considering switching a domi for a vindi, not sure how its going to perform since i dont use off grid booster. any opinions?
im just not sure since the vindi would be used, in part, for its webs. since i wont have the web boosting i would only have aout 14km, so im just not sure...
even in the OTA's, on wich the vindi would purely focus on the deltolte, im not sure if it would work

[Tool of Society]

i was actually considering switching a domi for a vindi, not sure how its going to perform since i dont use off grid booster. any opinions?
im just not sure since the vindi would be used, in part, for its webs. since i wont have the web boosting i would only have aout 14km, so im just not sure...
even in the OTA's, on wich the vindi would purely focus on the deltolte, im not sure if it would work

I found that even with the warfare link and with fed stasis webs that I had range issues on the vindi webs. My booster pilot is perfect with all leadership at V (even fleet command and command ships are V). She has the federation navy implant for armored and skirmish links and the astarte has bonuses for both. So my interdiction maneuvers link is giving the max bonus possible.



My initial value of 6b isk was when I originally bought everything for the fleet. My second figure I posted in here is for what the absolute max you would pay if you didn't bother waiting or looking for deals at other trade hubs.

[Tool of Society]

I tossed the vindi and grabbed a tachmare to do further tests tonight. Since I had been questioned prior about performance under influence (in game :P) I'm going to post some new videos.

Start off with the fit of the new addition

[Nightmare, VG t2 tach armor cheap]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
[empty high slot]

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Anti-Kinetic Pump II

Garde II x3

Rest of the ships are using the same stuff as before. They are overtanked for low influence so they are "okay" at the 35-40% influence I was running at. Ended the night at 33% influence. Health drops were worse than I expected. Controlling the two active dps clients with influence is going to take time as I adjust the rotation. It's much easier to run influence with just the loki and domis as dps.

OTA with 36 AU warp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Hfi9HD_r0

NCO with 48 AU warp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5PUTG7iWT0

I need more practice doing this but I think I can improve all times.

[Jacobsalt]

Your hp fluctuation did not look that bad. I have seen far worse in nullsec incursions, especially considering how skinny your resists are. On the NCO, why did you wait so long to drop all drones on your ships?

[Tool of Society]

Your hp fluctuation did not look that bad. I have seen far worse in nullsec incursions, especially considering how skinny your resists are. On the NCO, why did you wait so long to drop all drones on your ships?

Because stuff starts dying quite well with 3 domis assigned so I start killing and then slowly fill out the drones while attempting to keep the 1 kill per drone cycle going.

I find that getting the killing going asap is better then getting everything out at once when it comes to completion times.

I got into the concept of improving the rotation so I forgot to record most of tonight :(


EDIT : I was trying to error on the side of cautious so I would start targeting for reps before all drones were deployed.

I actually forgot about the NM's drones cause of it's near death experience when it took a nasty spike.

[iThirdAge Solette]

im interested in those web drones you have on the loki, how do they work for you?

[Tool of Society]

Been using web drones on the DDD for some time as dps drones are awful. They work as a group about as well as a t2 web which is why I try to use them to pre-web or to help web for the nightmare. Eysturs really hate them in OTAs though so that's where I will lose one sometimes.

When I get better at controlling this setup I might switch the nightmare to web drones too.

[neic112]

Hey guys I just need to know what kind of fleet layout I should have before I start skilling. I don't really care about the price of the fleet and I'm not quite sure why ToS is so keen on running as cheap as possible. Do ganks actually happen?

Anyway I've been thinking loki, 2 nightmares since I already have two alts skilled for them, 3 dominix, 2 nestor.

I've never ran incursions in my life so I don't care about maximum efficiency like most of the discussion here, but I need to do something to get the ball rolling.

Input plz guise I NEED YOU

[bugme143]

Ganks do happen.
Use NMs / gun boats if you can multitask and micro easily.

Domi or Rattler fleet for super lazy mode (Rattlers + Loki + Nestors or Basis)

I'd suggest flying a bit with any VG fleet to get a hang of the spawns and/or the incoming DPS.

[Tool of Society]

Ganks do happen.
Use NMs / gun boats if you can multitask and micro easily.

Domi or Rattler fleet for super lazy mode (Rattlers + Loki + Nestors or Basis)

I'd suggest flying a bit with any VG fleet to get a hang of the spawns and/or the incoming DPS.
^This^


As for ship prices. You will have to move your fleet fairly often at times. Keeping it cheap means it's easier for you to move those ships to a new spawn. You will get occasional gank attempts when running but your biggest threat is just moving.

I've had pretty good luck with running tachmares with two nestors. There's a ton of clicking and moving involved which gets annoying/unhealthy over extended period of times. Also just like with the drone fleet the second nestor isn't technically needed most of the time. I just use the second nestor to pre-rep so I can focus more on applying dps.

[neic112]

Yeah I've heard you say there's a lot of control involved with nightmares, that's why I thought about mixing them with some domis.

But if I did want to have a rattlesnake, nestor, loki fleet, how much of each would I need? I'm thinking two nestors just to be on the safe and optimal side, yeah? And then 6-8 rattlesnakes.

[bugme143]

2 Nestors for safe-mode (means you can cut down on total remote armor per cycle, means better cap time)
1 Loki or Huginn (poke AayJay Crendraven in-game for a fit)
7-8 Rattlesnakes. 7 gives you the ability to stuff everyone in a single squad. 8x for lulz. Poke AJ for a fit.

1x OGB. I used an Astarte myself but others might have better suggestions.

[iThirdAge Solette]

why the rattlesnakes tough? domis have better dps application due to the insane bonus they get...
i never personally tried the rattles, just wondering why you guys say its better

and since you are discussing prices, a fitted domi is something like 1/2 of a fitted rattle

[bugme143]

Probably shouldnt've said "better", you're right.

I chose rattlers for the extra midslots and drone damage bonus over the Domis. It's been a while since i actually looked at the fittings post nerf so I'm probably off. I'll look at my pyfa as soon as i get coffee into me.

[bugme143]

Thanks Kin for reminding me to update this.

Rattler I used to test:

[Rattlesnake, VG Fleet]

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I




Garde II x2

84.4k EHP, 648 DPS, Gardes 33.1km + 62.5km, 0.0645 tracking. 393m ISK.

Dominix I used to test:

[Dominix, Box]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I




Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5

62.2k EHP, 685 DPS, Gardes 43.7km + 57.6km, 0.0757 tracking. 241m ISK.


TL;DR: Domi > Rattler for Loki VG fleet doctrine (1-2 logi, 1 Loki/Huginn, X sentry dps)

Dunno why I thought Rattler was better. Basically, the Domi's 37.5% hull bonus to optimal and tracking out-weighs the Rattler's extra midslot.
At Level 5, the Domi has a 50% bonus drone damage, while the Rattler has a flat 275% bonus to 2 Sentries, which somehow equals out on PYFA, though for reasons my Smirnoff-ridden brain cannot fathom right now. If you can squeeze a 4th DDA out on the Rattler, they both have the same DPS.

Domi has 15 larger sig, 65 lower cargo, 0.1 faster align time, stronger capacitor capacity / regen.
Domi can carry 3 sets of Sentries, Rattler can carry 3.5 sets. Domi also has mildly better Kinetic armor resist at a cost of a mildly lower Thermic armor resist.
Domi's also more gank-proof, both in terms of ISK, and in terms of pirate calculations.

Kin would also like me to say that you don't need 3x opti for most sites.

[bugme143]

Since I am extremely bored, I did Guardian vs Nestor, cheapo version.

[Guardian, Guardian]


Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli A-Type EM Plating
Corpii A-Type Thermic Plating
1600mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II


ECCM - Radar II
ECCM - Radar II


Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter


Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

55k EHP, 426.5 hp/s, 272m ISK.


[Nestor, Nestor]


Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II


Sensor Booster II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II


Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II


Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I

121k EHP, 1024 hp/s, 1.046b isk


Implants used in both fits:

Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 - 160m
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2 - 147m
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-605 - 120m isk

If you don't want to use these, swap the T2 reppers for Meta 4 in the Guardian fit.
I used T1 LRRA rigs on the Nestor because T2 are 146m each.

Now for the comparison:
Guardian is cheap as balls, fit can be reproduced 3 times with some spare change for the cost of the Nestor. Small sig plus high means it takes less of a beating.
The Nestor has 80k more EHP, can field a set of heavies or sentries, and doesn't require specialized implants or skills.

You can solo Nestor, but it requires either a really good fleet comp, a ton of ISK, or a penchant for gray hairs.
...
...
...
Or for CCP to listen to logic and reason.

[olibri1]

Hey guys. I was researching something and this site popped up, so I thought I'd check in and share a little. I've been playing Eve for about a year and a half now. I currently live in a C5 (no effect) and multi-box capital escalations. Basically it's the single dread technique where you warp in the dread, kill the escalation, and then warp in additional caps to further escalate. If you do all 4 waves (just the guardians) it's 580m/site in blue loot. It takes about 35m to clear a site and initiate warp to the next site, so that's about 1b/hour. This does not count setup time which is at least 15m.

I know that 1b/hour sounds great, but the startup costs and startup time are quite high. Once you get everything humming, it's not too bad, but it's also a high amount of danger as wormholers are looking for people doing this and are quite adept at capturing caps.

Good luck!

[bugme143]

Yeah. A friend also multiboxes C5s, but he does the Loki+archon+Moros thing. There's also been considerable talk in our in-game channels of solo Phoenix, but none of us save one guy has good enough capital skills to try it, and I don't know if he's tried it.
There's a video of a solo Phoenix running a C5 site here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvmnUNTxhjk
IIRC he's in a WR in the video, which means penalty to shield tanking.
I'd happily pay someone to live in their C4/5 and farm their sites. All they'd have to do is work the POSs and manage PI. I'd give em a cut of the profits from sites :D

[LordsServant]

There's also been considerable talk in our in-game channels of solo Phoenix, but none of us save one guy has good enough capital skills to try it, and I don't know if he's tried it.

I dunno if you're referring to me, but yes, I have. It's ok.

Also, 1b/hour with over 4 capitals solo running escalations if godawful abysmal. You need to work your shit out, that's too slow and pretty awful isk/h for the amount of isk you're investing.

Your sites shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes on the SUPER SLOW side, giving you at least 2b/hour conservatively.

Also, that's something I hadn't thought of. If people want to hire me on as a "guide" or middleman w/e, I'm more than happy to help folks setup a jew hole, and run the POS or w/e for them in exchange for rent/constant %. ;)

EDIT: Speaking of which, selling 4 spare chars.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=439409&find=unread

In case anyone needs some very solid high quality alts with super conspicuous names. ;)

[EaTCarbS]

downsizing account numbers

https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2013/3/24/278633__safe_pinkie+pie_animated_sad_too+many+pink ie+pies_poke_pawing+the+ground.gif

[LordsServant]

You's a dick for using a Pinkie Pie gif. ;(

Also, looks like 1 down, for at least 5b (need to talk with him).

[thedevilyouknow]

Hey he could....idk...play WoW :rolleyes:

Plex why you no go down

Also fozziesov

[EaTCarbS]

play WoW :rolleyes:

oh god no.

Back on topic, has anyone considered trying gilas in an incursion?

[bugme143]

oh god no.

Back on topic, has anyone considered trying gilas in an incursion?

IIRC Domi does everything the gila does better with the exception of align time, and mass damage on wormholes.

[LordsServant]

All chars under 100m sp (with the exception of my hauler/indy alt) now sold.

I AM LIBERATED FROM THE SHACKLES OF PLEXING MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Time to go enjoy eve. ;)

[Tool of Society]

oh god no.

Back on topic, has anyone considered trying gilas in an incursion?

I had a friend that used gilas. His fleet had one more dps than my fleet and lost to me every time we had a contest. Does NCOs really well though.

[bugme143]

Using this gila fit it does something like 603 DPS with T2 Hammers and 3 DDA. 38.2k EHP no rigs and no extenders. Can't figure what to use for rigs yet, maybe triple extenders.

[Gila, Gila]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II


[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]




Hammerhead II x2

Biggest challenge vs Domis is the travel time of meds vs sentries.

[EaTCarbS]

yea id do core field extenders for the rigs. or you could put EM rigs and fit a large extender maybe?

[bugme143]

yea id do core field extenders for the rigs. or you could put EM rigs and fit a large extender maybe?
Max I got is 63.8k EHP:


[Gila, Gila]


Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II


[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Hammerhead II x2
'Augmented' Hammerhead II x2


I'll admit the lowered Sig Rad is seriously looking tempting to me, but the ability to snipe Niarjas is too juicy IMO.

[Tool of Society]

Using this gila fit it does something like 603 DPS with T2 Hammers and 3 DDA. 38.2k EHP no rigs and no extenders. Can't figure what to use for rigs yet, maybe triple extenders.


Biggest challenge vs Domis is the travel time of meds vs sentries.

Yeah the travel time of his drones was killing him in NMC and OTAs. In NCOs I barely eeked out the win though.

As for my domi fleet....



After doing tests I've decided on a 2.5 AU warp doctrine for my fleet. So my domis are now using one t2 warp speed rig and two t1 trimark rigs. The extra armor is allowing me to get everything assigned before I need to start repping.

Also makes +50% influence a lot easier.

[thedevilyouknow]

Plex has hit highs....Wish i multiboxed a year or two ago when i first considered it

Anyone still grinding out? When my incursion team finishes training and i can get a suitable isk/hour i may consider keeping the accounts, otherwise will cut to probably 3 and that will be that

[bugme143]

Still grinding with the fleet.

[Tool of Society]

Was grinding but life took me on a trip. I'm debating on just closing all the accounts and moving on.

[thedevilyouknow]

Was grinding but life took me on a trip. I'm debating on just closing all the accounts and moving on.

Life can be funny that way
Hope you're alright though

[EaTCarbS]

Still grinding with the fleet.

Still mining for some reason. Guess I like pain?

[bugme143]

Still mining for some reason. Guess I like pain?
Judging from your avatar...
Where and who do you mine for, if I may ask?

[EaTCarbS]

Judging from your avatar...
Where and who do you mine for, if I may ask?

why, so you can come camp my system? :D

[bugme143]

why, so you can come camp my system? :D
Yes because I'm totally going to risk hurting some random non-boxers feelings and having him run crying to mommy because "hurr durr da mootibawcksing is iwwegal!"

[MiRai]

Could we please keep this thread on topic? For anyone who needs a reminder, it's in the OP:

New place for non-specific methods for how multiboxers are generating isk post J1st

I'm sure i have missed many, so can any others think of any new ways to do X activities
Also feel free to post videos of multiboxing post J1st (Looking at you Tools)
Please stop posting off-topic EVE drama in this thread.

[EaTCarbS]

Yes because I'm totally going to risk hurting some random non-boxers feelings and having him run crying to mommy because "hurr durr da mootibawcksing is iwwegal!"

haha, well im living in dronelands now, its very quiet there. I haven't done anything in game for about a week though. Just crushing ice and shipping it to jita. Might build caps once i get a feel for the local market.

[bugme143]

haha, well im living in dronelands now, its very quiet there. I haven't done anything in game for about a week though. Just crushing ice and shipping it to jita. Might build caps once i get a feel for the local market.
Hang on. Are you saying the ISBoxer nerf didn't impact your mining abilities to a great extent?
Would you mind saying that a little louder so Core can hear? :D

e: But really. How quiet are the drone lands these days? I've considered moving out there myself but keep stopping myself after I remember they removed drone poo and nerfed the loot drops.

[EaTCarbS]

e: But really. How quiet are the drone lands these days? I've considered moving out there myself but keep stopping myself after I remember they removed drone poo and nerfed the loot drops.
Very quiet. I've gone hours and hours without seeing another soul, just mining in peace. Reminds me how silly it is for people to stay in highsec to mine when its actually more dangerous there.

[bugme143]

I just read that miners guide written just after Dominion, and he was claiming to get seriously high ISK numbers, something like 51b/month or something. I'll see if I can dig it up again.

[EaTCarbS]

That was probably before the changes to the ice belts (when they were unlimited, literally printing isk) I haven't done the exact math but I reckon my fleet does 350+ an hour at least. If you need a home in the drone lands let me know.

[bugme143]

That was probably before the changes to the ice belts (when they were unlimited, literally printing isk) I haven't done the exact math but I reckon my fleet does 350+ an hour at least. If you need a home in the drone lands let me know.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/Bloodtear_Industy_Index_Report_v3.pdf FOUND IT!
Yeah, it was made May 2012 (in INFERNO!), so yeah, well before the ice nerfs. But from what I gathered he wasn't mucking with ice, hence my interest.

Can you take a screenshot of the anoms in one such system, including the system security status?

[EaTCarbS]

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/Bloodtear_Industy_Index_Report_v3.pdf FOUND IT!
Yeah, it was made May 2012 (in INFERNO!), so yeah, well before the ice nerfs. But from what I gathered he wasn't mucking with ice, hence my interest.

Can you take a screenshot of the anoms in one such system, including the system security status?

Yea, none of that info is valid anymore, its all been changed. its much easier now, actually.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Spire/6w-6o9,h4x-0i,c-bhdn,r-re2b,4dh-st#sec

Plenty of hordes to go around.
(http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Spire/6w-6o9,h4x-0i,c-bhdn,r-re2b,4dh-st#sec)

[bugme143]

Well I didn't want to break your opsec....
I was actually looking at your mining anoms. If you send me a mail or invite me to your corp / personal pub chat, I can ask what I'd like to ask in secret. I'll be the first to admit I'm utter shite at putting my thoughts into words here.

[EaTCarbS]

Well I didn't want to break your opsec....
I was actually looking at your mining anoms. If you send me a mail or invite me to your corp / personal pub chat, I can ask what I'd like to ask in secret. I'll be the first to admit I'm utter shite at putting my thoughts into words here.

not much opsec to break tbh. Just looking at my post history here one could find who I fly with and where I live. I'll hit you up soon.

[bugme143]

Just had this fit handed to me for AFK ratting alts in nullsec while training carrier skills:


[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier


'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I
Drone Link Augmentor I


Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I




Garde I x2
Caldari Navy Wasp x5


Optimal Range Script x1
Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x2130

1052 DPS, 700 EHP/s omni, 1200 EHP/s Gurista. Pricetag: 600m.

Interesting note: If you upgrade one rig to T2, you can drop a flux for another damage mod and remain cap stable.

[EaTCarbS]

Just had this fit handed to me for AFK ratting alts in nullsec while training carrier skills:


1052 DPS, 700 EHP/s omni, 1200 EHP/s Gurista. Pricetag: 600m.

Interesting note: If you upgrade one rig to T2, you can drop a flux for another damage mod and remain cap stable.

eh... I get tired of seeing sub-par rattler fits. :(

[Jacobsalt]

eh... I get tired of seeing sub-par rattler fits. :(

They are only subpar if you arent afk ratting with them. Thats one of the best things about being in certain highly organized areas... the people that fuck with ratters are regularly hunted so its secure.

[bugme143]

It was built by a guy who AFK rats with 8x characters, IIRC.

Slightly off topic: Has anyone here ever tried out an arty nag warping at 100km in a C5 site?

[thedevilyouknow]

There is a vid of a solo nag in c5 sites
Wasn't Arty fit though, whole idea revolved around killing the BS as they got to their orbit ranges

Also as i understand it, the escalation rats spawn where you land?

[bugme143]

There is a vid of a solo nag in c5 sites
Wasn't Arty fit though, whole idea revolved around killing the BS as they got to their orbit ranges

Also as i understand it, the escalation rats spawn where you land?

Yeah, i know the video. It was an autocannon fit built for tracking.
I was also interested in a Solo C5 Thanny vid i saw but you have to fiddle around with the fitting or use a high-ish CPU implant.
Fairly certain that escalations don't spawn at where you land or else the whole "warp cap at 100km and warp off/cloak" trick for killing daytrippers wouldn't work. Speaking of, we got dunked by an archon who did warp in at 100km and the escalation spawned on us.

I'll have to test it on SISI one day.

[iThirdAge Solette]

the escalation wave spawns about 60k (i think its 60, would need to verify tough) straight upwards of the beacon, when you warp at 0 you just go straight up and do a bookmark, then warp dread to it and start the killing, the concept in itself is actually easy, the hard part is securing the wh's and making sure no one will gank you while you are runing the site

[bugme143]

the escalation wave spawns about 60k (i think its 60, would need to verify tough) straight upwards of the beacon, when you warp at 0 you just go straight up and do a bookmark, then warp dread to it and start the killing, the concept in itself is actually easy, the hard part is securing the wh's and making sure no one will gank you while you are runing the site

So if I make a bookmark about 1/2 way between the warpin spawn and the escalation spawn, and warped in at range, I could theoretically snipe the sleepers?

[thedevilyouknow]

I'm not sure what making a bookmark 1/2way between the points would do for you (as ive never done WH's to that extent) but you could just (if looking for range of the escalation spawn) bookmark the escalation spawn point, and warp in at range?

[bugme143]

I'm not sure what making a bookmark 1/2way between the points would do for you (as ive never done WH's to that extent) but you could just (if looking for range of the escalation spawn) bookmark the escalation spawn point, and warp in at range?
It was an attempt on my part to figure out if an arty naglfar would work in a solo C5 site.

TL;DR: It wouldn't really...

[thedevilyouknow]

Considered sticking some toons into nullsec, karmafleet tax is back up to 15%, any other takers for a ratting specific toons which will just generate income if you leave them alone? - srs don't want to grind sov

[bugme143]

Considered sticking some toons into nullsec, karmafleet tax is back up to 15%, any other takers for a ratting specific toons which will just generate income if you leave them alone? - srs don't want to grind sov

If you have any friends in SMA you can angle yourself into a lowtax corp there. Most of their space is empty, especially the areas bordering GSF space.

[thedevilyouknow]

If you have any friends in SMA you can angle yourself into a lowtax corp there. Most of their space is empty, especially the areas bordering GSF space.

I have no friends :( .... in 0.0 :D

[fknra]

so i ran my first VG's last night. 2 nestors, 1 bhalgorn, 5 sentry Domi's, 3 Gecko/Accolyte's. that was... an experience. Def gonna stay overtanked till i can get the hang of things, but this is fun. Took it REAAAAALY slow. still make 500m in an hour.

this is fun.

next investment is definitely going to be to buy a booster as running without one was a little rough and I don't want to wait a year to train one up. did nothing but NCO's might try OTA's if i can get one of my buddies to send me armor links.

[Tool of Society]

I haven't been running much the last couple months. Yesterday I ran for the first time in a month. I only ran 9 sites before calling it a night.

Tonight I decided to institute some of the changes I've been daydreaming about for a while now. So I call this Fleet V3.0 as it's a departure from the old fleet v2 comp I ran before.

V3.0
Loki primary DDD with 5 domis assigned
Nightmare secondary DDD with 1 domi and 2 nestors assigned
6 t2 garde Domis
2 Nestors with t2 gardes
Prospect for ore/haxor
Astarte with 4 or 5 links not set yet

Link to fits : http://i.imgur.com/GIIVPIL.jpg

I went with pulse and scorch on the nightmare for the extra tracking and simplicity involved. The NM targets the niarjas at the start then moves to cruisers. I run 2x tracking and 1x optimal scripts on the NM. The loki does the usual kill order.

Domis still run 4x tracking 1x optimal scripts

6 rep nestors are plenty of repping power. The tracking linked improved effective dps but more importantly the DLA meant that the drones were activating consistently. The nightmare tends to shoot cruisers outside of the normal control range of the nestors. The DLA means I don't have to make sure the nestor's gardes are shooting.

Prospect is running t2 data analyzers on top of a tank with prop mod. I've started hacking OTAs but I'm not 100% sure if it's improving site times or not. I need more time to get used to the current fleet comp and to get more samples.

Astarte is running 4 links because nestors are cap stable without the damage control II link. I'm thinking of putting the shield harmonizer link in as a replacement.

Videos of typical sites for this setup.

OTA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMX6ZGg-Sw

NMC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ6U3RcheC8

NCO : Short warp but a 55 AU warp would of added only 11 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL6ba3cabgo


Comments?

[fknra]

Nice. Have you tried a Bhaalgorn as a DDD/Webber yet? with 4 Tachs it can alpha a niarja and reach out a ways. (it's pricey, but seems to work well)

I'm just starting out and it's your vids that kindof inspired me to give it a shot. I use ISboxer on one monitor just to split my 2 nestors even down the screen (i hate how in windowed mode they overlap) and then the domi's run on the other screen just normal stacked like yours.

I'm running 2 cap stable nestors, 5 sentry Domi's, 3 gecko/accolyte Domi's and a Bhaalgorn for my webber/ddd. (I like having the extra buffer as I'm still getting used to this whole macro/micro manage. had a buddy run one of my nestors the other night just cause he wanted to see what it was like as far as how the damage application went. boy, with someone else helping with 1 logi, the ota's we were doing were 6 minute payouts. (alone i get closer to 12 now). with boosts i'm getting ~30k on the web range with the bhaal (only min BS-III on that toon) so he's running 4meta4 Tachs with multifreq, 2 fed navy webs, 2 target painters and a SeBo. had a couple other friends come along in their marauders just for fun for a couple sites to watch how things went and they were pleasantly surprised at how fast the niarja was going byebye. Everything is overtanked right now with 2 EANMs and a Plate on everything, and it's still 1-2 shotting all the frigs. I'm sure site times will improve once i can graduate to T2 guards instead of fed navy. But this is fun.

[Tool of Society]

I haven't tried the bhaalgorn because I don't want to train Minmatar BS V just to have shorter webs and a longer lock time. I don't use minmatar ships so I'd have no other use for the skill.

[bugme143]

FYI fknra, this Rapier gets 45.3k EHP no implants no boosts:


[Rapier, Webber Armor]


Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II
1600mm Steel Plates II


Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script


Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


And this Loki gets 86.2k EHP no implants no boosts:


[Loki, Loki fit]

1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Kinetic Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Signal Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II


Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script


Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]


Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector

The Loki is a modified C5 Loki fit. When I ran dual Basis + Rattlesnakes, my shield Loki only had a DC2 and Extender rigs for tank. I personally prefer the Rapier over the Loki because it gets 56km webs with FedNavy, compared to the Loki's 35km. In my entire VG life, I've only ever lost 1 DDD, which was the Loki, but it was due to mass disconnects that occurred some months back.
The Loki has fewer midslots than the Rapier, but it makes up for that with some spare lowslots.
IMHO, the Loki is more newbie friendly than the Rapier thanks to the base resist profile and rigs, but the Rapier wins once you get comfortable.
I'll post more when I get back to the internet.

[fknra]

I may give the rapier/loki a shot, my current "ddd" pilot is only a temp as he finishes training into remote armor rep 5 and electronics upgrades 5 so he can fly the nestor. My main (which is stuck in the nestor till said ddd pilot is done in another 10 days) can fly all the fun stuff so i'll be trying different compositions as i get more comfortable and the fleet matures. At first i figured "ya i can have this up and going in 2 months..." 4 months later and i'm just getting into running, anyone who says this is just "too easy and an isk faucet" has obviously never tried to put together a fleet let alone actually fly one. I would put the stress levels at "riding a motorcycle at 90% of it's performance envelope" levels. it's manageable till the rear breaks loose and you get that adrenaline surge as you have to react or die.

[bugme143]

anyone who says this is just "too easy and an isk faucet" has obviously never tried to put together a fleet let alone actually fly one. I would put the stress levels at "riding a motorcycle at 90% of it's performance envelope" levels. it's manageable till the rear breaks loose and you get that adrenaline surge as you have to react or die.

Paging CCP Fozzie....

lol who am I kidding? Nobody in CCP knows how to use ISBoxer.

[Tool of Society]

I need to correct something. My current loki has 2 sig amps, tracking enhancer, 1600 t2 , Corelum C-type EANM, and A DCU II. I accidentally showed an older fit in the image.


Bugme's loki is more tanked than mine (which isn't a surprise as c5s require it). The fit I linked can handle 100% influence with relative ease if you're used to running your fleet otherwise another EANM helps. Tamas and the Nation commander are the only ones that do kinetic/exp damage and they do it with missiles that have an explosion radius of 450m. I always target Niarja > tama/commander so there really isn't much in the way of explosive/kinetic damage flying around. What missile damage is done is hindered by my fleet having smaller sig radius than the missiles.

I've been looking at the rapier ever since our conversations about the loki months ago. Since I basically had the same pre-reqs for the loki AND the rapier I always meant to give the rapier a try. The Nolak's rapier locks 1 second faster then my current loki on the smallest targets. So lock time is effectively the same. What is nice about the rapier is that the TPs get a bonus from it on top of the extra web range. My loki pilot is one of a few in the incursion fleet that can use missiles effectively. As a phoenix pilot she has almost all the related damage skills at IV and V. So I'm actually thinking of using heavy missiles with her as I sometimes fire off the arty too early. The delay in the missile hit could allow for the webs to bleed more speed before impact.

The fit I've been meaning to try is kind of similar to Nolak's. Since I don't view kinetic/exp to be much of a threat I don't bother specifically tanking against it. Also the extra Sebo is at best 1 less second in targeting but if you watch my videos that one second really is meaningless 99% of the time for me. It should always be meaningless but I'm not perfect at my rotation. I also prefer two TPs as the effective dps increase is noticeable with the second one (she has IV signature focusing).

[Rapier, VG DDD 3 web 2 TP 1 sebo]
1600mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Auto Targeting System II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


The downside on the rapier is that it has half the EHP of the loki.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

anyone who says this is just "too easy and an isk faucet" has obviously never tried to put together a fleet let alone actually fly one. I would put the stress levels at "riding a motorcycle at 90% of it's performance envelope" levels. it's manageable till the rear breaks loose and you get that adrenaline surge as you have to react or die.
As multiboxers, we're not your average 1-account-blob-until-walking-dead-comes-on type, so we tend to make this stuff look easy/OP to the casual observer. It probably IS an ISK-faucet once you get it working well, but the whole "vanishingly small numbers" perspective and time investment in getting it to the faucet stage that the WoW devs understand apparently still eludes certain companies. ;)

[bugme143]

As multiboxers, we're not your average 1-account-blob-until-walking-dead-comes-on type
Tell that to Fozzie and CBB

[Tool of Society]

As multiboxers, we're not your average 1-account-blob-until-walking-dead-comes-on type, so we tend to make this stuff look easy/OP to the casual observer. It probably IS an ISK-faucet once you get it working well, but the whole "vanishingly small numbers" perspective and time investment in getting it to the faucet stage that the WoW devs understand apparently still eludes certain companies. ;)
I'm usually under the influence of something when I'm running. I definitely was when I was making those videos and when I had the friendly contest.

When I first started out I couldn't even think of doing that. It's practically muscle memory at this point.

[EaTCarbS]

If high sec incursions aren't an isk faucet then Fozzie sov and jump fatigue are a brilliant success.

[bugme143]

If high sec incursions aren't an isk faucet then Fozzie sov and jump fatigue are a brilliant success.

I think he means compared to WoW PVE. In EVE, you can get suicide ganked and lose your shit, or get jammed at the wrong second and lose a ship, whereas in WoW, if your tank or AOE dies, you can rez him.

Add-on: all the non-boxing QQers who I've run into who complain about incursions being faucets want CCP to fix the system for them when the mechanics are already in place to shutdown incursions, both the actual constellation, and fleets.

[thedevilyouknow]

http://imgur.com/0TvfhXU

will leave this link here for anyone who is curious on a mining setup
Self explanatory

[bugme143]

http://imgur.com/0TvfhXU

will leave this link here for anyone who is curious on a mining setup
Self explanatory

Was that you?

[thedevilyouknow]

i wish
I dont use ISBoxer anymore, too scared

[bugme143]

i wish
I dont use ISBoxer anymore, too scared

Should still chill with us in-game.

[Eckhe]

Just lurking about and i see that screenshot, thats a blue to me :D He seems to get some kills with that setup every other day.

[thedevilyouknow]

Oh I've swapped to EVE-O Preview, may even upload a screenshot to show my setup sometime this pay cycle.

[Morganti]

Definitely an impressive mining setup that guy posted in reddit. I never got the returns on mining that I expected, even in null. Not enough time to try again these days.

[bugme143]

Definitely an impressive mining setup that guy posted in reddit. I never got the returns on mining that I expected, even in null. Not enough time to try again these days.
A friend boxes a fleet of IcePicks and makes ozone and stront all day with Rorq boosts. Dunno how hard it'd be to try ninja gas-huffing in a wormhole or reverse-daytripping to nullsec to mine ice.

[Mokoi]

A friend boxes a fleet of IcePicks and makes ozone and stront all day with Rorq boosts. Dunno how hard it'd be to try ninja gas-huffing in a wormhole or reverse-daytripping to nullsec to mine ice.

It takes around 11 miners in gas (tech II) to guarantee you haul all gas before BS spawns in the Vital Core and Instrumental Core gas sites. Those are the only ones worth time. Unless they changed things this year, that's how I used to ninja my gas. Best ISK / AFK Hour income in game :)

[bugme143]

It takes around 11 miners in gas (tech II) to guarantee you haul all gas before BS spawns in the Vital Core and Instrumental Core gas sites. Those are the only ones worth time. Unless they changed things this year, that's how I used to ninja my gas. Best ISK / AFK Hour income in game :)
That before or after the Venture / Prospect?

[Mokoi]

That before or after the Venture / Prospect?

That was with all 11 pilots in Ventures, T2 harvesters.

Prospect no idea, never used it. I think it came out right before I left EVE.

[bugme143]

That was with all 11 pilots in Ventures, T2 harvesters.
Prospect no idea, never used it. I think it came out right before I left EVE.
Prospect has same gas hauling as Venture, until CCP gives us gas lowslot upgrades.

[EaTCarbS]

Prospect gets a yield bonus, not sure if that effects gas harvesters

[bugme143]

Prospect gets a yield bonus, not sure if that effects gas harvesters
They both have.

[thedevilyouknow]

bigger ore bay

[Tool of Society]

Working on a new setup and here's a sneak peak.. All windows started off as full screen and then I used the region editor to position and shrink the windows. I have a 1920x1200 and 1920x1080 set of monitors so the black bar on the bottom of the right screen doesn't exist.

http://i.imgur.com/UVweoDg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UVweoDg.jpg

I ran at 50% influence early after DT and was able to complete NCO NMC and OTAs with 3 reps total. The positioning of the logi made things a lot easier. I"m tweaking overviews, settings, fits and some other things right now before I post a new video.

Ran an OTA at 7 minutes 10 seconds with a 70 AU warp with influence fit (2x eanm, 1600mm t2 plate and DCU). The EANM replaces a damage mod so I was down dps. I'm now confident I can run my regular fits up to 50% at the least. Possibly can do 100% but not positive on that yet.

I had a DX nothing window version setup with everything on one panel but some computer issues and a complete reinstall caused me to lose most of that work so I stopped development on that for now.

Credit to William O'neal for inspiring the change in my logi window on the second screen.

[Krops]

I got to ask tools what is your setup? I've been looking to upgrade to go back to my 30+ accounts and want to enjoy these times again :D

Not very tech savy despite eve and isboxer, I am looking at somethint 3000$ at most.
1575

[Tool of Society]

I got to ask tools what is your setup? I've been looking to upgrade to go back to my 30+ accounts and want to enjoy these times again :D

Not very tech savy despite eve and isboxer, I am looking at somethint 3000$ at most.My primary system is years old.

FX6300 at 3.8ghz currently
Asrock 990FX extreme 9 board
16 GB ddr3 1600 (used to run 8 GB at 1866). I actually usually sit under 8 GB used when I am running.
GTX 660 2 GB card
Western digital blue 1tb and black 750gb drives in an antec illusion case.

With 3 grand you can have a sweet i7 setup with 32 GB ddr4 and a sick graphics card. A SSD really helps with running eve especially with that many clients loading stuff.

AMD is moving on to a unified AM4 socket for their APU and CPUs which will have DDR4 capability so there's no real point to look at AMD right now. The next generation Zen chips are looking very VERY good. In a year or so AMD will be back in the fight with intel on the mid range and high end side of things.

I can post suggested builds later if you want.



I don't quite have the system capability to use OBS to record all my screens with the current setup. My hard drives are too slow and the CPU a little too weak.

I did record a NCO of my nestors at work with the current setup. 45au 7 minute 26 second NCO while under influence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKU24mmlq6I

I can run with 3 reps easily with the current setup thanks to the improved control positions.

Oh and BTW I've discovered that from a pure damage standpoint 2 gecko and 3 hobgoblins are roughly the same as 2 gecko 2 hammerhead 1 hobgoblin. The issue with the hammerheads though is that they die... A LOT.. I had a large stack of hammerheads so I could keep chucking them out for measurement purposes. Factor in the deaths and the hobs just pull ahead.

Oh and 5 t2 ogres are about 10-15% behind what the gecko setup does for total damage. So if you're running cheap then Ogres are hard to beat.

Also Drone navigation on the nestors didn't help applied dps as effectively as an omnidirectional with tracking script. It appears the issue is that the drone nav module only effects MWD speed so the drones will get locked into a cycle of flying past hte target then falling behind which causes hell with the tracking. It's not as bad with the slower MWD speed though. So I'm not a big fan of drone navigation computers right now for VGs.