Follow In Battlegrounds Broken After 5.2

[luxlunae]

The only hope is to remember the realid debacle of three years ago (four?) which they DID roll back. Like others I'm think that "heartsick" definitely describes how this change makes me feel.

[valle2000]

In my opinion this is outrageous!
WoW multiboxing have been my main hobby for the last couple of years and now all the time and effort I’ve spent on leveling up my chars in battlegrounds are useless!
And during all these years they’ve said multiboxing is okay, I feel like Blizzard tricked me and sold a false product and that is not acceptable in ANY country!

[SoulSeekerUSA]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=28

some are locked some have been unlocked. New threads are poping up also.

I think threads auto lock at 500 replies is that true?

MB won't die without a fight, that is for sure.

[Fusionsouth]

What is funny is that I used to actually contribute with my toon in IOC. Killing/defending glaives and whatnot. Now I just stand in my own base and wait for the enemy to come farm me at the GY... It is almost like this change has made the game experience worse for everyone....

Hypathetically....
It is ironic now that the fastest way for an MBer to get honor for an entire team would actually be to use a bot... Since we can't really fight effectively, and it would just be frusterating and not fun to try..
Of course I would never recommend/condone/or even discuss that here...

[Wokomehee]

I still hope they will change it. Im so sad...

[valle2000]

I just cancelled 3 of my 5 accounts. Haven't decided about the other two yet, maybe this will be a good time to test other games instead and quit all accounts.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

Snowfox on the WOW forums is really starting to get to me. She is a boxer but an MVP and she is kissing Blizzards ass like there is no tomorrow. Making every excuse for them she can come up with.

[Chivalrous]

I stopped reading them--I made one comment yesterday than stopped lowering my IQ. What a bunch of goofballs on those forums.

[Koralon]

This is what we get when people go over board with Boxing. IE 40man boxing BGs, harassing people on the WoW forums... yes you guys did this to yourselves.. I have foreseen this for a long time now...

[Loman]

Alternatives to /follow
Use a multi-seat mount to carry your characters into battle. This will work only for up to 3 characters and out of combat and outdoors.
Summon Argent Squire pet on leader and have followers target it and spam 'Interact with Target' when moving around.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

This is what we get when people go over board with Boxing. IE 40man boxing BGs, harassing people on the WoW forums... yes you guys did this to yourselves.. I have foreseen this for a long time now...

You are going to have that no matter what with any type of group. Look at the idiots on the forums right now that know nothing about boxing and they think they know everything and hate us for the wrong reasons.

[sethlan]

You are going to have that no matter what with any type of group. Look at the idiots on the forums right now that know nothing about boxing and they think they know everything and hate us for the wrong reasons.


Of course how many times they called us botters, they have no clue what it takes from 0 to 90. Plus on too of that to get geared enchants mounts etc...

[SoulSeekerUSA]

Alternatives to /follow

Use a multi-seat mount to carry your characters into battle. This will work only for up to 3 characters and out of combat and outdoors.
Summon Argent Squire pet on leader and have followers target it and spam 'Interact with Target' when moving around.



OH HELL NO!! That is more of a hassle then its worth.

[MiRai]

This is what we get when people go over board with Boxing. IE 40man boxing BGs, harassing people on the WoW forums... yes you guys did this to yourselves.. I have foreseen this for a long time now...
I was going to mention something about this earlier in the thread, but I figured I would wait. Now seems like a good time, though. :)

There has always been an ongoing discussion amongst multiboxers on this forum about how they should conduct themselves when in the presence of the general public (e.g. normal uneducated players). There are those of us who choose to take the high road and will move along quietly while letting the haters hate, and there are those of us who choose to constantly antagonize players to no end through whatever means they can because they will "play the game however they want to" regardless of who it affects.

As multiboxers, we make people angry by simply existing. This can be because they believe that multiboxing is hacking, cheating, botting, an unfair advantage, or some other weak and uneducated reason they can muster up; but whether their reasons are right or not, as per the game publisher's standards or rules, doesn't matter -- They still hate us and want to see us gone.

The hate toward us has continued to build up over the last 8 years and those who "play how they want," and purposely anger as many players as they can, have relied on Blizzard (in this case) to defend them because Blizzard has, since the game's release, said the playstyle is "accepted, but not supported"; but now, when Blizzard makes a change to the way the follow function works, multiboxers act as if they never saw this coming and are angry that their unsupported playstyle has been affected.

I would bet Blizzard is very tired of defending multiboxers in battlegrounds because of the way some of us act (or we're just plain terrible), and while I'm sure a lot of multiboxers play nice with others, if you've been around long enough you'd know that there are many who do not. Multiboxers have very few allies among 'normal' players these days and I would guess that Blizzard felt worse about affecting the small percentage of handicapped people who rely on /follow in BGs/Arena than they did about multiboxers when they made this change.

I agree that the change was abrupt and should have been in the patch notes beforehand, because I can't tell you the last time I ran into a bot that relies on follow in a BG -- Maybe during the WotLK era. I doubt this is going to be a temporary change to the way that /follow functions in battlegrounds, but if it is, do your best not to be a complete douchebag to other players whether you might think they're a windowlicker or not.

[JohnGabriel]

Well at least they had a sale so we could stock up on Battlechests to get ready for this. Oh wait.... They just wanted my money not me.

[jebnarf]

I starting using a soul-trader with IWT and it works, but i sometimes will get dc'd after spamming it a couple times. Is there something i can do to fix that? maybe leave click to move on... BTW has anyone had success using CTM with identically sized window/views?
I'm going to figure this out no matter how many people cuss me out in bgs along the way (my performance isn't as great without /follow but blizz said we can box without it just fine, right? xD)

[flux1]

Well at least they had a sale so we could stock up on Battlechests to get ready for this. Oh wait.... They just wanted my money not me.

Yeah, weather boxers "had it coming" or not, having a sale right before sneaking this change in was dirty. Even if they did overturn this, which I think they won't, I'd be hard pressed to trust them again in the future.

[aasi888]

Yeah, weather boxers "had it coming" or not, having a sale right before sneaking this change in was dirty. Even if they did overturn this, which I think they won't, I'd be hard pressed to trust them again in the future.
I agree that its dirty. Someone said he is going to sue blizzard for this (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=19#369). I highly doubt that he is going to do anything irl though.

[Koralon]

Eh im still going to queue for BGs, infact i think as a protest we should all queue for BGs and just dance and run around doing nothing, then they'll see just how bad of an experience it can be.

[Ualaa]

I starting using a soul-trader with IWT and it works, but i sometimes will get dc'd after spamming it a couple times. Is there something i can do to fix that? maybe leave click to move on... BTW has anyone had success using CTM with identically sized window/views?
I'm going to figure this out no matter how many people cuss me out in bgs along the way (my performance isn't as great without /follow but blizz said we can box without it just fine, right? xD)

Mouse broadcasting is not going to be reliable.

Even if you move your toons, after a lead toon, who only uses forward and backward arrow for several iterations.
IE., follow them forward, then they back up and your slaves follow... repeat quite a while.
So in theory, your toons are facing almost exactly the same direction.

Then use your formation key, to strafe a few into whatever formation...
Without changing their facing at all.

After a very short time running, they're going in different directions and you either need to follow or correct them.

I suppose you could run several toons, by broadcasting NumLock or whatever you use for auto run.
And then manually adjust the movement in each window.

Or maybe choose a modifier per toon (doesn't have to be Alt, Ctrl, Shift), which executes a mapped key on press or release.
Press = mouse broadcasting on, for one window; Release = mouse broadcasting off, for that window.
Which would let you adjust the movement of each window individually, without leaving the main window.

Still going to be a pain in the ass.





Basically, /Follow is likely gone for good, in PvP.

In the event they bring it back, I'm going to be extremely hesitant to dump cash into the game.
Who knows, maybe you buy 10x [The Next Expansion], and then they revert (remove again) follow in pvp.

I can PvE for free, in several games.

I can PvP in a few games, which haven't screwed boxing over...

Basically, I don't really feel like giving Blizzard another dollar.
They fucked us over, which is their option.
But having done so, they live with the consequences.

[Oldboxer]

Think of some of the good multiboxers did to the solo WoW battleground player. If you were in a BG with a multiboxer on your side, if you lost, it didn't bruise your self image. The loss was always the multiboxer's fault. If you won, it's was because YOU did good.

I think we brought some spectacle and variety to BG's that otherwise are pretty much the same BG after BG, year after year. I've always enjoyed watching multiboxers, even if they are ripping me up. It's something different, what, once in a 100 games or so? Someone sees a 40 boxer in AV, a heck of a show, and all they can think is "OMG I'm going to loose an AV! No fair!!"? The circus comes to town and they see the elephant dung.

There was a thing in Wow Insider a while back about a group figuring out how to overcome a 40 boxer in AV and win. It sounded like it was the highlight of many of their WoW PvP experiences. What would have been without the boxer? AV race, Alliance wins in 10 minutes.

Does ANYONE believe that the quantity of complaining about battlegrounds is going to decrease without multiboxers in the game? You're a fool if you think so. What people cry about in battlegrounds can be boiled down to this: "I'm not doing as well as I should so something is wrong with something other then me". We were visible, hard to miss, so a handy excuse. But our not being there isn't going to make them better players, so the crying will continue, but without a handy focus.

The point is, we don't need to blame ourselves or feel bad. We played by the rules, which is a lot more then a lot of solo players can say. We played as hard as we could figure out how to do, but what are you supposed to do in a GAME? Hold back because you might make someone cry? That's not the kind of game that I want to play.

[Mickthathick]

I was going to mention something about this earlier in the thread, but I figured I would wait. Now seems like a good time, though. :)

There has always been an ongoing discussion amongst multiboxers on this forum about how they should conduct themselves when in the presence of the general public (e.g. normal uneducated players). There are those of us who choose to take the high road and will move along quietly while letting the haters hate, and there are those of us who choose to constantly antagonize players to no end through whatever means they can because they will "play the game however they want to" regardless of who it affects.

As multiboxers, we make people angry by simply existing. This can be because they believe that multiboxing is hacking, cheating, botting, an unfair advantage, or some other weak and uneducated reason they can muster up; but whether their reasons are right or not, as per the game publisher's standards or rules, doesn't matter -- They still hate us and want to see us gone.

The hate toward us has continued to build up over the last 8 years and those who "play how they want," and purposely anger as many players as they can, have relied on Blizzard (in this case) to defend them because Blizzard has, since the game's release, said the playstyle is "accepted, but not supported"; but now, when Blizzard makes a change to the way the follow function works, multiboxers act as if they never saw this coming and are angry that their unsupported playstyle has been affected.

I would bet Blizzard is very tired of defending multiboxers in battlegrounds because of the way some of us act (or we're just plain terrible), and while I'm sure a lot of multiboxers play nice with others, if you've been around long enough you'd know that there are many who do not. Multiboxers have very few allies among 'normal' players these days and I would guess that Blizzard felt worse about affecting the small percentage of handicapped people who rely on /follow in BGs/Arena than they did about multiboxers when they made this change.

I agree that the change was abrupt and should have been in the patch notes beforehand, because I can't tell you the last time I ran into a bot that relies on follow in a BG -- Maybe during the WotLK era. I doubt this is going to be a temporary change to the way that /follow functions in battlegrounds, but if it is, do your best not to be a complete douchebag to other players whether you might think they're a windowlicker or not.

I would argue that ever point you raised in your post can easily be applied to every other non-multi box player in WoW and isn't the reason why this occurred.

It's unfortunate that a minority of multi-boxers are douchebags, but to me this breaking of boxing in bgs is Blizzard caving to the scores of butt-hurt entitled players constantly blaming multi-boxers for their own terrible playstyle rather then the players actully researching/studying what they can do to play better and beat multi-boxers.

As someone above posted, the first time they ran into a multi-boxer they didn't cry but instead were intriqued about what they were doing and researched what was going on.

I have always enjoyed browsing the forums here as people respect each other and it's not full of the filth and depravity that exist on the WoW forums, due in part to the common bond of the hobby people here share and fact that these forums are competently moderated.

Unfortuantely, multi-boxers represent only a tiny percentage of players and Blizzard will always act on what the majority think/say/do at the expense of the minority. And as a company with shareholders, they shouldn't do it any other way.

[Chivalrous]

I starting using a soul-trader with IWT and it works, but i sometimes will get dc'd after spamming it a couple times. Is there something i can do to fix that? maybe leave click to move on... BTW has anyone had success using CTM with identically sized window/views?
I'm going to figure this out no matter how many people cuss me out in bgs along the way (my performance isn't as great without /follow but blizz said we can box without it just fine, right? xD)

I kinda feel like the boxers retaliating by being world pvp dicks and doing BG work-arounds are just going to ruin it for the PvE only boxers like Khatover. Goodluck to you guys, but imma stay out of all that. They obviously don't want boxers in BGs right now, and I'm not going to do any griefing to help them decide to just remove /follow all together, which they will more than likely do eventually anyway.

[jebnarf]

Who said anything about griefing? I am just trying to continue functioning... Blizz did said Multiboxers were not the primary target, they were just okay with what happened to it. Another blue said he expected we could continue without /follow, so i'm trying. I don't see how that hurts pve boxers.

[moosejaw]

For those that haven't been to the Everquest section, there is an update that might be of interest. The free to play restrictions are being adjusted for EQ and EQ2.

Link (https://www.everquest.com/news/article?month=032013&id=524463&tab=0)


As of mid-next week, we're going to be removing the following free-to-play restrictions in EverQuest and EverQuest II. Free and Silver players will now have access to all of the following options:

We are opening up ALL CLASSES.*
We are opening up ALL RACES. **
All bag slots are unlocked.
All players can now use the shared bank slots.
The quest journal restrictions are lifted entirely. Quest away!
Additionally, EverQuest is allowing all players to send delivery parcels! (This change is for a game-specific change in EQ, so it doesn't happen in EQII.)

Edit: IMO this is in response to the impending exodus of boxers from WoW.

[Chivalrous]

Who said anything about griefing? I am just trying to continue functioning... Blizz did said Multiboxers were not the primary target, they were just okay with what happened to it. Another blue said he expected we could continue without /follow, so i'm trying. I don't see how that hurts pve boxers.

There were some ppl saying they were gonna grief world pvp and stuff, wasn't you.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

Just canceled my 6 accounts, sad day because I loved WOW so much and it has been such a big part of my life for 8 years now. I do feel a bit of relief though, like a weight has been lifted off of me. I debated for days now and did not come to this lightly but after seeing so much hate on the forums and Blizzards coldness to killing a game for so many that were loyal just made it seem pointless to keep playing. I did try I logged in a few times and tried to do some of the new content but I just kept thinking what if they remove /follow in pve. So here I am, been a good run guys and gals. Thank you for all the help when I first started out back in 2007 and I hope the website keeps going no matter what, Team SoulSeekerUSA over and out;-)

[Ualaa]

Essentially... if you want to quit boxing, but kept coming back to Warcraft after a few weeks/months out of the game...
This is a strong incentive to stay out of the game.
So if you want to break out of MMOs, this is Blizzard's gift to you.

If you want to continue, with a PvP focus...
I believe you have battlegrounds in LotRO and RIFT, which are paid games likely similar pricing to Warcraft.

If you're into PvE, you have more choices.
You can continue with Warcraft, which is likely one of the better games in terms of panache and style... but one in which, non-boxer hate of boxers is something the developers are moving towards... so could easily also lose /Follow in LFR or even instances, if the whiners complain that the boxers are stealing their loot rolls etc...
You can move to any of the SOE games (EQ I, EQ II, Vangard), which are Free to Play... with the option of one-time investments (Station Cash, purchased with real cash), for whatever feature is included in the subscription version but not the FtP version.
Or you can move to a non-FtP game, where the company hasn't taken a heavy anti-boxer stance...

[Khatovar]

I was going to mention something about this earlier in the thread, but I figured I would wait. Now seems like a good time, though. :)

There has always been an ongoing discussion amongst multiboxers on this forum about how they should conduct themselves when in the presence of the general public (e.g. normal uneducated players).

...etc...

I couldn't agree with this more. While I can see Mickthathick (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49047-Follow-In-Battlegrounds-Broken-After-5-2?p=378030&viewfull=1#post378030)'s PoV, I've also had that rising tension in between my shoulderblades for the past few years as I see more and more people come in with bigger and bigger teams and attitudes of "I'm so gonna rape faces all over the place /spit /cry /chicken /lol"

Is it any different than your regular BG kiddies? Fundamentally, no. But we already have a terrible reputation as far as a lot of people are concerned simply because they don't like multiboxing. Period. In some cases Bots are viewed in a higher regard than we are because at least they make for cheap crap on the AH. And bots aren't going to fall for troll-bait like we do, which combined with some of those bad attitudes makes for a very loud and public squabble. Especially when some people resort to obviously spiteful, vindictive and disruptive actions to "protest" changes they don't like in "The Name Of Multiboxing!!"

We've always treaded a thin line, our increased and/or enduring presence hasn't made that line any bigger. It's just given a bigger target for people to aim at.

[ebony]

Essentially... if you want to quit boxing, but kept coming back to Warcraft after a few weeks/months out of the game...
This is a strong incentive to stay out of the game.
So if you want to break out of MMOs, this is Blizzard's gift to you.

If you want to continue, with a PvP focus...
I believe you have battlegrounds in LotRO and RIFT, which are paid games likely similar pricing to Warcraft.

If you're into PvE, you have more choices.
You can continue with Warcraft, which is likely one of the better games in terms of panache and style... but one in which, non-boxer hate of boxers is something the developers are moving towards... so could easily also lose /Follow in LFR or even instances, if the whiners complain that the boxers are stealing their loot rolls etc...
You can move to any of the SOE games (EQ I, EQ II, Vangard), which are Free to Play... with the option of one-time investments (Station Cash, purchased with real cash), for whatever feature is included in the subscription version but not the FtP version.
Or you can move to a non-FtP game, where the company hasn't taken a heavy anti-boxer stance...

there's not reason to remove us from pve. Even LFR as the others can easy remove us from the raid. the blue posts have said its to remove ""BOTS"" from BG's to be fair this is not the move they was going to do they was going to and did for one patch on the ptr they removed "Join as group" from the random bg's (this would of been more fair as they banned All group play from randoms) as /follow it does not work in war games as well there stoping the command being used on maps so they can not open it for Rated bg's that's why they said maybe arena. (though no gear makes it hard)

Kinda guessed something was going to happen after the last months off getting banned and all the QQ and blue posts about how they feel the pain, or though the members on the forums saying they see a boxer every game is not true there getting boxers mixed with bots!!!!!!! as they do look the same.

[Baltyre]

Someone have the link to this post please ?
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/fd151950-1645-4ed6-87ec-4913c4e261a2.jpg

[Khatovar]

Someone have the link to this post please ?
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/fd151950-1645-4ed6-87ec-4913c4e261a2.jpg

That's a support ticket from blahbalah (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49047-Follow-In-Battlegrounds-Broken-After-5-2?p=377636&viewfull=1#post377636)'s account, not a forum post.

[sethlan]

Eh im still going to queue for BGs, infact i think as a protest we should all queue for BGs and just dance and run around doing nothing, then they'll see just how bad of an experience it can be.

I'm still gonna q up for WSG with 10 - why> because i can stand in flag room and kill few people- if i get killed i res next to GY and guess whats gonna happen? they gonna try to farm me, but really- im gonna kill few until the cap the flag, it happened many times before, thinking they can farm me.down that easy:) also I'm going to q up for RBG's maybe other team wont q up.

[Meathead]

I'm still gonna q up for WSG with 10 - why> because i can stand in flag room and kill few people- if i get killed i res next to GY and guess whats gonna happen? they gonna try to farm me, but really- im gonna kill few until the cap the flag, it happened many times before, thinking they can farm me.down that easy:) also I'm going to q up for RBG's maybe other team wont q up.

lol, maybe you can sit there and go afk give the team a easy win a good 2min game for you and them and you still get free honor! If blizzard ask's why you tell them what else can I do if I dont have /follow.

[livetolift]

Also there were tons of complain against the person who is running a 40 man team and pretty much destroying world pvp and AV. 2 hours long av will piss alot of people especially if they loose. I am pretty sure it was brought to blizzards attention.

[Fat Tire]

Just give back follow in arena ffs.

[valkry]

Also there were tons of complain against the person who is running a 40 man team and pretty much destroying world pvp and AV. 2 hours long av will piss alot of people especially if they loose. I am pretty sure it was brought to blizzards attention.

Both Horde and Alliance were doing premade AVs that long with the intention of farming the opposing team. Rath strat and QQ premades... argument is void sry

[pinotnoir]

I just tested this today and you can still get honor if your team is good. Granted you will be doing nothing but sitting on a flag, it still gets you way more honor than smaller bg's. The other 40 man may be as good too. You can just sit like a noob. If Blizzard wants to make us handicapped noobs in bg's I say do it.

[BulletLatus]

Read This: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6877447873

How to move as one again.

[MiRai]

Tackling these out of order...


As someone above posted, the first time they ran into a multi-boxer they didn't cry but instead were intriqued about what they were doing and researched what was going on.
Okay? But for every single person that's intrigued by a multiboxer or becomes curious about multiboxing, there are 50 others that think we cheat, bot, hack, or play the way that we do for some sort of unfair advantage.


and isn't the reason why this occurred.
Never once did I ever say it was the reason that this decision was made. I would appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth (post).


I would argue that ever point you raised in your post can easily be applied to every other non-multi box player in WoW
Of course it can, but which one of the following statements makes more sense:

1) "I hate single players, they're all cheaters and botters who are afraid to fight 1v1!"
2) "I hate multiboxers, they're all cheaters and botters who are afraid to fight 1v1!"

I'm not going to argue this again and again and again, so let's go back in time and look at a piece of d-b history. Here's some excerpts from a thread (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/47473-Taking-the-heat) from July 2012:


When someone rages on five players, they're raging on five players. When someone rages on someone else who is multiboxing, they're raging about a multiboxer. Also, if those five individual players come from the same guild, then that guild is now labeled, no?

How are these the same?

Let's break this down visually (as best I can with text).

Example 1

Five players from different guilds camp one player:


Warrior (Tom)
Mage (Mike)
Mage (Jerry)
Priest (Mila - My sexy lady)
Druid (George)

Result:
"What a bunch of douche bags! Why don't they go find something else to do with their time?"

Example 2


Five players from the same guild camp one player:


Warrior (Tom)
Mage (Mike)
Mage (Jerry)
Priest (Mila - My sexy lady)
Druid (George)

Result:
"F'ing <insert guild name>! They're all just a bunch of douchebags! Why don't they go find something else to do with their time?"

A guild of 100 people is now labeled by this one person as douchebags because of five individual players' actions.

Example 3


A single multiboxer who is multiboxing five characters camps one player:


Warrior (Tom)
Mage (Tom)
Mage (Tom)
Priest (Tom)
Druid (Tom)

Result:
"F'ing multiboxers! They're all just a bunch of cheating douchebags! Why doesn't this guy go find something else to do with his time?"

All multiboxers are now labeled by this one person as douchebags because of one multiboxer's actions.

Here's another funny post from that same thread:


How many people have quit playing WoW because they ran into a multi-boxer?

How many multi-boxers with their multiple accounts would quit playing WoW if they couldn't box in battlegrounds?

People threaten to ragequit all the time because they got beaten in a bg or a duel or whatever, but they never do.

People *do* quit, however, when they are literally unable to play the game the way they want. Boxers who like to run battlegrounds being unable to run battlegrounds anymore would most assuredly quit.

Ergo, making boxing impossible in battlegrounds would cost Blizzard more money than not making it impossible, and Blizzard likes money, so they won't do it unless they're feeling stupid.
ORLY?

[MiRai]

Read This: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6877447873

How to move as one again.
Hasn't this been mentioned multiple times already?

Post 95 in this thread - http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49047-Follow-In-Battlegrounds-Broken-After-5-2?p=377633&viewfull=1#post377633
Another thread where it's mentioned - http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49076-Effective-Alternative-to-follow
Another thread where other alternatives are mentioned - http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49063-I-found-a-solution!-Adequate-Replacement-for-follow-in-BGs-etc

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well this whole situation is getting better and better for me;

It appears that preparded has left:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=43

[crowdx]

I couldn't agree with this more. While I can see Mickthathick (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49047-Follow-In-Battlegrounds-Broken-After-5-2?p=378030&viewfull=1#post378030)'s PoV, I've also had that rising tension in between my shoulderblades for the past few years as I see more and more people come in with bigger and bigger teams and attitudes of "I'm so gonna rape faces all over the place /spit /cry /chicken /lol"

Is it any different than your regular BG kiddies? Fundamentally, no. But we already have a terrible reputation as far as a lot of people are concerned simply because they don't like multiboxing. Period. In some cases Bots are viewed in a higher regard than we are because at least they make for cheap crap on the AH. And bots aren't going to fall for troll-bait like we do, which combined with some of those bad attitudes makes for a very loud and public squabble. Especially when some people resort to obviously spiteful, vindictive and disruptive actions to "protest" changes they don't like in "The Name Of Multiboxing!!"

We've always treaded a thin line, our increased and/or enduring presence hasn't made that line any bigger. It's just given a bigger target for people to aim at.

This.

All I feel protesting in a disruptive manner will achieve is Blizz changing the overall multiboxing policy and banning it completely and so the PvE boxing community also loses out. I realize they may take out follow for everyone at a later point but why give blizzard a reason to do it.

[ebony]

Maybe lax is right just joined a few av games and the "bots" that are now stuck at the gates at kinda funny to watch and then the automated software removes them from the game making it be like a 10-14 av game. some don't get suck at a gate but when they run of there route to kill someone they get stuck somewhere.


seems more bots used follow they we was all thinking.


This.

All I feel protesting in a disruptive manner will achieve is Blizz changing the overall multiboxing policy and banning it completely and so the PvE boxing community also loses out. I realize they may take out follow for everyone at a later point but why give blizzard a reason to do it.


if they wonted us banned we would of been gone. not at any point they said we will be banned in pvp.

If they said "we do not wan't boxers in Random bg's anymore we have removed /follow and if you get reported for being in the bg we will ban you from the game....."

they just said

"we removed /follow sorry sure u find a way u always do have fun ;)"


as for refunds they have to refund if you do it with 14 days if the goods was not used. same as any shop (for UK laws anyway) even online goods i might go back to 3 boxing with the hunters (as the pets do a lot of the work anyway hehe)

[Fat Tire]

Well this whole situation is getting better and better for me;




You are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Edit: Thinking about it again, as long as they bring back follow in arenas I will pretty happy with this change. Hate random bgs anyways.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I didnt attack anyone who didnt attack me first (up to yesterday), and I played my best in BG's, ususally being high on HK's.

Horde lost 9 out of 10 games, no matter if I played or not. And I never took more then 10 slots.

And I never win traded, I never disrupted game play, I never Corpse Camp, and still don't. I have never had an allience toon.

I earned all my in game things. So how so?

And for the past few years I have been very polite posting but how many times should I allow people to call me a cheater before I respond?


AV was my favorite part of the game but I will find world pvp with no problem at the world bosses.



One thing to keep in mind is that although from the forums it would appear that everyone hates multiboxers those threads are only getting views in teh low 1000's. Considering a 6 million actual player base we cannot conclude from 200 or so posters that we are as hated as it appears. Obviously the VAST majority are indefferent.

[heyaz]

I played my best in BG's, ususally being high on HK's.


I forget, which battleground's objective is most HKs?

[moog]

Well this whole situation is getting better and better for me;

It appears that preparded has left:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=43

And there's the Community spirit that keeps me coming back here :(

[valle2000]

Also there were tons of complain against the person who is running a 40 man team and pretty much destroying world pvp and AV. 2 hours long av will piss alot of people especially if they loose. I am pretty sure it was brought to blizzards attention.
This could be solved if they allowed follow to work only within the same bnet-account. Then people wouldn't be able to multibox that many accounts. And bots wouldn't be able to follow random people neither.

[aasi888]

This could be solved if they allowed follow to work only within the same bnet-account. Then people wouldn't be able to multibox that many accounts. And bots wouldn't be able to follow random people neither.
I like that idea. Also if there was a comfirmation box to allow/disallow person to follow you that would also work.

[livetolift]

Both Horde and Alliance were doing premade AVs that long with the intention of farming the opposing team. Rath strat and QQ premades... argument is void sry


I am not talking about wrath era. I am talking about now. Look at prepared....he is basically camping world pvp and his AV bgs were atleast 90 minutes long. The single player base has changed since wrath. Everytime i watch his stream i see 50+ ppl talking about complaining about MB to blizz.

[Chivalrous]

Stop being dicks! When you have 40 accounts and act like a douche to the reg. joe single player you resemble a fat cat conservative oil tycoon standing on a pile of Bambi skulls, smoking a cigar, listening to rush and with small minority slaves chained around you. People don't like that. I would know! I'm a fat conservative in the oil field.

[luxlunae]

I think whoever said several pages ago that our only hope is the "picking on disabled gamers" line of reasoning has it right. I'm sending out a few feelers now.

[livetolift]

stop being dicks! When you have 40 accounts and act like a douche to the reg. Joe single player you resemble a fat cat conservative oil tycoon standing on a pile of bambi skulls, smoking a cigar, listening to rush and with small minority slaves chained around you. People don't like that. I would know! I'm a fat conservative in the oil field.

lmao!

[Chivalrous]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned I had a friend who botted. (Yes, I always disapproved) anyway--he got perma-banned with no warning yesterday. So, perhaps it's helping? Or could have just been his time. He has botted for quite a few years so the /follow may have had something to do with it.

EDIT: nevermind, he was gathering at the time so /follow didn't effect his ban.

[Ñightsham]

How about a "trusted" boxer account :) Like the trusted travelers program at some airports.

[Invisahealz]

Stop being dicks! When you have 40 accounts and act like a douche to the reg. joe single player you resemble a fat cat conservative oil tycoon standing on a pile of Bambi skulls, smoking a cigar, listening to rush and with small minority slaves chained around you. People don't like that. I would know! I'm a fat conservative in the oil field.

well played sir,
oh and pardon me sir, you wouldnt happen to have any grey poupon would you?

http://youtu.be/mqIZa3PTX6c:cool:

[Chivalrous]

well played sir,
oh and pardon me sir, you wouldnt happen to have any grey poupon would you?

http://youtu.be/mqIZa3PTX6c:cool:

LOL! I've never seem that. Very good!

[Shodokan]

I didnt attack anyone who didnt attack me first (up to yesterday), and I played my best in BG's, ususally being high on HK's.

Horde lost 9 out of 10 games, no matter if I played or not. And I never took more then 10 slots.

And I never win traded, I never disrupted game play, I never Corpse Camp, and still don't. I have never had an allience toon.

I earned all my in game things. So how so?

And for the past few years I have been very polite posting but how many times should I allow people to call me a cheater before I respond?


AV was my favorite part of the game but I will find world pvp with no problem at the world bosses.



One thing to keep in mind is that although from the forums it would appear that everyone hates multiboxers those threads are only getting views in teh low 1000's. Considering a 6 million actual player base we cannot conclude from 200 or so posters that we are as hated as it appears. Obviously the VAST majority are indefferent.

A good 80% of their users are on kr/tw/cn servers and would never be able to view those threads anyway.

[Chivalrous]

I imagine the EU/CN/KR/RS/TW servers all have their own /follow threads going. I saw one post where a guy said there were probably less than 1k multiboxers.... Lol

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well I do my best, ya HK is not the goal but I am doing my best to help my team. The one time in like 30 games our premade showed with guys who had a plan they told me to hold the IWT choke and I did, keeping ally out of both towers (they were not in force just a few guys) and when ally had zero resources we had over 450.

The rest of the games there is absolutly no plan at all. I just follow the crowd, if they go to Galv I go to Galv if they rush, I rush, if they go to base, I go to base. Its a joke.





Anyway I think you all have WAY over reacted by closing accounts. There is not a single evidence that the explanation Blizzard gave for the change and for not annoucing the change is not true. There is nothing unreasonable about their not annoucing it to catch more bots. All this community hystaria that Blizzard is out to eliminate multiboxing from the game seems a bit of a reach, at this point.

Im going to look up how the lawsuit against the bot company is doing back in a sec. Well they are still supporting the bot for wow:


We're fixing the bot for the 'sneaky patch' that happened earlier

You guys should know by now that it takes us anywhere from 5 mins to 3 days to fix the bot for an update, and then up to a week to recode chunks of it as needed (ie: questing)

QQ less pl0x, it won't help us code faster.

That was posted today.

There are 474 people viewing the bot forum (unless they lie). There are 40ish here ..........


And one thing with you guys; some complain about the cost of transfering over to a pvp server. If you didnt sign up for a pvp server in the first place then how in the world are you going to quit over something that only effects PvP? And if you are on a pvp server, hang around the world boss's you will find pvp. Or just go towards the oppents capital ...

Its going well for Blizzard on the Lawsuit front, random quote from today on the bot forum:


A few years i am concerned with lawsuit strategy and i really dont see a successful end here for xxxx
Blizzard will involve you step by step in new arguments till you out of money.
My advice to run is create a new xxx called XZ manufactored in Singapore or anywhere outside of fckn Germany

[MadMilitia]

I'm having quite a bit of fun at the moment playing my rogue in 5.2. There is something quite wicked about a 4.5 second garrote followed by two back to back eviscerates. Loving Marked for Death!

Haven't touched PvE at all though. Some dailies but got tired of that real quick. I guess this will be the extent of my WoW gaming. Just giving QQers a WTF moment.


Edit: I am thinking a rogue with cloak and dagger makes an excellent MB choice for PvP. The talent puts you right behind the opponent.

Couple that with MfD and you could have each geared toon hitting 300k damage in 3-4 GCD. Times that by 5!

[JackBurton]

I was itching to get back into the game. now.. not so much. I like PVE more than PVP. But the community will wither if not die now. I move to my current server to be with more boxers like myself.

[valle2000]

I just made a ticket about a refund, cause I paid my accounts 6 months in advance and time is still left on them. This is not what I signed up for, if I can’t multibox in battlegrounds they sold me a product which doesn’t exist anymore.

[MiRai]

I was itching to get back into the game. now.. not so much. I like PVE more than PVP. But the community will wither if not die now.
I highly doubt that.

[EaTCarbS]

I highly doubt that.

As do I. I do see it shrinking, however.

[Chivalrous]

As do I. I do see it shrinking, however.

Thats what she said.

[EaTCarbS]

Thats what she said.

http://static.hoomor.pl/100_100_768426550_Oh_you_przez_drstein_middle.jpg

[Prega]

heya all,
Sad day for mboxing!
i logged in my unique currently active account (10 owned, all been long time inactive with little activity in pandaria starting days) and opened a ticket asking to be refunded or get suggestions about how the hell i could use my 10 accounts now /follow is broken.
waiting a reply.

[Shodokan]

I highly doubt that.

PVE community will stay

I'm still doing bgs... but only cause it's AV and i have the gold for a tundra mammoth to be able to sit on noob hill. I likely will stop though as soon as my dks are geared and x-fer them all to one account.

[Ualaa]

Well this whole situation is getting better and better for me;

It appears that preparded has left:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=43

I don't see how Prepared quitting is a big thing in your favor.

The two of you are on a sinking ship... he gets into a lifeboat and survives.
Now you're on the ship... do you go down with it, or take your own lifeboat?

If you enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, you still have access to that style of play.
If you enjoy the PvP aspects, you're not going to be that effective in battlegrounds so honor and conquest gear is going to be slower and more difficult; 10 individuals, each with 150-200% of the power (or your independent toons) and the all important independent action... are going to farm you in almost every encounter.

There are a lot of games out there, that still have boxable PvP.
There are even more, that haven't had the company instigate strong anti-boxer tactics... and especially not the shady tactic of offering a boxer friendly account sale, immediately before revoking a feature boxers require to enjoy the game...

[Sam DeathWalker]

I don't see how Prepared quitting is a big thing in your favor.

The two of you are on a sinking ship... he gets into a lifeboat and survives.
Now you're on the ship... do you go down with it, or take your own lifeboat?

If you enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, you still have access to that style of play.
If you enjoy the PvP aspects, you're not going to be that effective in battlegrounds so honor and conquest gear is going to be slower and more difficult; 10 individuals, each with 150-200% of the power (or your independent toons) and the all important independent action... are going to farm you in almost every encounter.

There are a lot of games out there, that still have boxable PvP.
There are even more, that haven't had the company instigate strong anti-boxer tactics... and especially not the shady tactic of offering a boxer friendly account sale, immediately before revoking a feature boxers require to enjoy the game...

I really doubt the sale and /follow are related, again there is nothing on the face of it that makes their explanation inplasable or any reason to expect that more anti boxing steps will be taken.

Two world boss mobs drop hi end pvp gear.
Its WAY FASTER to gear up doing RATED BGS and taking the default wins for gear then grinding AV for honor with /follow
Basic PvP gear is available through trade skills.




10 individuals, each with 150-200% of the power (or your independent toons) and the all important independent action... are going to farm you in almost every encounter.

Ya for now they can, like I am afraid of a challenge, I am from Sullon Zek. Let them farm me, I grow stronger every day.

Also we dont know the future, maybe they reverse, maybe not. Guys with DK's have found their play in AV not disrupted using mouse click move and IWT on oppenets.

I plan to hearth and set up my guys one at a time, in a better posisition then I did with follow, I can control one guy at a time perfectly so ....

We will see. Also there is more to the game for me I have 700K in gold and am GM of a 950 member guild, there is LOT to do in WoW besides pvp for honor.

And how can you not find world pvp? Just march to the ally equivilent of two moons and I can assure you 100percent you will find pvp. And there WILL be world pvp around the world bosses, they drop to good of loot to be ignored by anyone.


Arrg is av call to arms and I am wasting time posting .... .

[Ualaa]

If you find what you're doing in the game to be enjoyable, more power to you.
That is afterall, the ultimate litmus test.

[Fat Tire]

We are getting off topic....No one is trying to belittle any of your accomplishments in wow. I was just stating that confidence has humility embodied within it.

I am in the same boat, if follow doesn't come back to arenas I am done with boxing. I would be done entirely buy my wife plays so I will still have a solo account.


I would rather talk about the many boxers who I feel brought upon this change or allowed this change easier for blizzard to make.

[heyaz]

You should come back when you're less angry. Yeah, you don't agree with or like some people. You can ignore them, no need to pick a fight. That's 2 posts now you've scolded people. Lets try to not resemble the WoW forums.

I'm not angry. The whole of all the posts both on here and the WoW forums collectively brought me to that point. There's enough nonsense on here, but it's funny that you bring up the WoW forums, which I've also been reading, and on which many of you have been posting.

And it hasn't been pretty. This community has been in general very good, but suddenly so many of you sunk to, or even beneath, the haters and morons on those forums and honestly just made yourselves (and multiboxers in general) look really pathetic.

I'd be glad to link the posts. Lot of people from these forums, very respectable, have been posting like total jerk offs right there in the general WoW community.

Go ahead and tell me it doesn't matter what you posted on there and you don't care about those people, I just hope you aren't surprised that we have almost zero respect and that the threads were full of even more hate for multiboxers and dozens of pages of praising Blizzard and that they were glad to see us go.

[drarkan]

Ok time to get back on track. I emailed support@blizzard.com with this


Hi, I am emailing to plea on behalf of multiboxers who run battlegrounds and depend on the follow command. You claim that the follow command is a usefull command for botting. Now I'm sure botters will have other intelligent means of bypassing the need to use the follow command. Whats next? Removing follow in PVE areas? I hope not. I PVE and I multibox 5 accounts.

Now you may think its no many but there are multiboxers leaving world of warcraft due to the removal of the feature because of this. I'm sure you've lost alot more accounts due to this change than those who quit from being killed in pvp by a multiboxer. Besides on a PVP server it doesn't stop people from doing world pvp anyway.


If your claim that the feature is to be removed due to botting, then give account exceptions to multiboxers then. Many players who multibox range from 2 accounts, 3 accounts, 5 accounts and very very many at 10-15 accounts. Now all those legitimate players spent hundreds of hours if not Thousands of hours on leveling, gearing, grinding, and completing countless amounts of dailies, and achievements to qualify for certain raids, battlegrounds, and arenas. This is a huge blow to a sizable portion of your player base. It is hardly a good business practace to hinder that customer base.


Before I was a multiboxer I played one account. I would join a battleground durring my leveling process of my main toon. I would follow a healer using the /follow command while I did some changes to my action bar after passing a level from questing, so I could keep up with the group.


So please revert, or allow the follow command in battlegrounds.


Thank you

Not sure if this will have any effect, however if we all just send emails like this every week or few days, perhaps they will give it back to us.

Can't hurt to try.

[Meathead]

This is really just a waste of time. Since the people who build the bot's cheats' ect will just make something new to counter the follow command.

[drarkan]

This is really just a waste of time. Since the people who build the bot's cheats' ect will just make something new to counter the follow command.

My point exactly! Botters will find a way around follow, so really removing follow will not solve the issue.

[baconeggs]

Has anyone paid attention to the work around posted on the Blizzard thread - pages 48-50 for BG's? It is still possible to multibox in BG's.
What would be cool is if Blizzard created a mod that you could purchase for your accounts that allows you to build a "zombie" type of team that allows 1 toon to "mind control" his other accounts. This would allow you to control those toons movement with your main toon. Basically, the same thing as /follow, but as an added feature you could purchase.

Botters wouldn't pay this. Even if they did, once they were caught, it would ban all of their accounts at once. MB'ers would pay it, seeing as we all spend money to do what we enjoy to do already....another $5? Sure!

** Also, to comment on the above... This is not the USA..this is the interwebs.

[ebony]

Has anyone paid attention to the work around posted on the Blizzard thread - pages 48-50 for BG's? It is still possible to multibox in BG's. I also spoke to Rob from Keyclone last night, in regards to an issue I was having with my license, and he said he has almost completed a work around built-in to Keyclone. So, it's not over yet!

What would be cool is if Blizzard created a mod that you could purchase for your accounts that allows you to build a "zombie" type of team that allows 1 toon to "mind control" his other accounts. This would allow you to control those toons movement with your main toon. Basically, the same thing as /follow, but as an added feature you could purchase.

Botters wouldn't pay this. Even if they did, once they were caught, it would ban all of their accounts at once. MB'ers would pay it, seeing as we all spend money to do what we enjoy to do already....another $5? Sure!

** Also, to comment on the above... This is not the USA..this is the interwebs.


blizzard does not support us they will not do anything extra to help us out this has always been there viewpoint on this. no extra money.

if they was to do say $10 to for follow in bg's. then raiders will start saying if i pay $10 they get two resets a week. and the fight will go on.


Blizzard are not going to spend time trying to fix it so we can use follow they know how many are boxing, but with the bot prob they got in bg's (a lot bigger then boxing) they will have to try anything to stop it. Did not help when we get picked up by there software and they have to turn it off is never going to help us.



Next patch CTM-IWT removed as bots are using this as well.

[Khatovar]

Anyway I think you all have WAY over reacted by closing accounts. There is not a single evidence that the explanation Blizzard gave for the change and for not annoucing the change is not true. There is nothing unreasonable about their not annoucing it to catch more bots. All this community hystaria that Blizzard is out to eliminate multiboxing from the game seems a bit of a reach, at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not one action, it's several recent actions. This, the OQueue thing, the automatic bans, getting booted when mass-reporting in the outside world, the "tolerated, for now" blue comment, the massive increase in bots in BGs as well as farming bots going unchecked for far too long. These are exactly the things I noted when I closed my first few accounts prior to the /follow debacle. Basically "you let bots get out of hand and your fixes aren't effective against bots, they just cripple and punnish multiboxers".

While almost none of these directly impact me as a strictly solo PvE multiboxer, it still feels like Blizzard is somehow of the mind that killing multiboxing is the obvious first step. They can easily get rid of us and score an immediate "win" in the eyes of the hissy-fit throwing general population that thinks we're just bot programs that "get away with it" because we're attended. Meanwhile the masses of the real bots that use sophisticated movement are only minimally inconvenienced, if effected at all. The masses are sated if not totally overjoyed by our tears and the belief that getting rid of us fixes everything, and they can feel good about that until the actual bots continue to rise or reappear, at which point Blizzard can go announce a mass ban of reported bots and score another win.

If Blizzard really wanted to throw a monkey wrench in the works of BG Bots, they should have looked more at a means of varying the maps randomly with objects bots can get stuck on and that real players can lead bots into getting trapped on. Rocks, fences, walls, ledges, tree groupings randomly spawned like ore nodes within the map that real players, even multiboxers using follow, can easily react to, but bots that rely on pre-determined pathing or randomly following someone can't seamlessly correct for. While it wouldn't be totally effective and lose effectiveness over time as bots adapt with more varied pathing and "stuck" responses unless Blizz has a ton of obstacle spawn variation, if we were just "collateral damage" as they claim, it would be a better band-aide than the steps they've taken recently, IMHO.

[Lyonheart]

It would be nice to know the facts, that is for sure. Like what kind of numbers we represent..how many solo players have canceled subs and said "dealing with multoxoers" as their reason for quitting? I mean all the whining in the world has not effected them until now? The only difference is the last few years the WoW subscriptions have dwindled. I mean, the game is still doing better than any other american MMO. BUt what? 3 million less than its peak? more? I have to believe that people leaving because of us is next to negligible, but maybe Im wrong.

I can see the masses of QQers not having anything to QQ about now and starting to harass the shit out of the PvE boxers now " They lag out the zone! it makes my play experience suck" They steal all the mobs when questing! The ruin the economy by dominating the inscription, alch, tailoring markets! bla bla bla!

[valkry]

I miss BC, that was a fun xpac...

[Ualaa]

Wow... I did not get the impression that Fat Tire was in any way complaining about Shodokan.
From his post, it sounded to me like he was saying: You can tell he is confident, not falsely bragging.

I guess you cannot 'hear' the tone of the wording, when it is straight text.
So two people can take a post completely differently.

I'd rather if the thread stays on topic.
If there is a workaround for boxing, that is viable, it's good to have it here.
If people are leaving or staying, better to note it here than in 39 threads across the forum.
If Blizzard changes their stance, or furthers their position with the removal of other features, again it belongs here.

Insulting each other, not so much.

[Palee]

Guys, the fact that they disabled /follow in arenas too, is a clear sign that removing /follow was actually a direct ban of multiboxing in PvP.
Blizz knows there are no bots in arena. How can there be bots there? How would a bot follow a legit player in arena? How would a bot even queue in the same arena with a legit player?
They targeted us without a doubt. And they threw us a sale too before this change hoping that they can string us a long a little more.
They knew very well some of us will cancel and some of us might even call to get a refund, but not all of us are doing that.
So the thinking process went like this:

Blizz emp1: We are killing multiboxing in PvP. It causes too much whining and people leaving the game.
Blizz emp2: OK, since they are gonna leave, let's throw them a sale so we can offset the losses as much as we can.

If they had kept /follow in arena then their pathetic excuse would have sounded more realistic, but they didn't.

[luxlunae]

Guys, the fact that they disabled /follow in arenas too, is a clear sign that removing /follow was actually a direct ban of multiboxing in PvP.
Blizz knows there are no bots in arena. How can there be bots there? How would a bot follow a legit player in arena? How would a bot even queue in the same arena with a legit player?
They targeted us without a doubt. And they threw us a sale too before this change hoping that they can string us a long a little more.
They knew very well some of us will cancel and some of us might even call to get a refund, but not all of us are doing that.
So the thinking process went like this:

Blizz emp1: We are killing multiboxing in PvP. It causes too much whining and people leaving the game.
Blizz emp2: OK, since they are gonna leave, let's throw them a sale so we can offset the losses as much as we can.

If they had kept /follow in arena then their pathetic excuse would have sounded more realistic, but they didn't.

I don't think that the sale was a scheme and I think that the dual ban was probably more about the way the mechanics of pvp regions are set up in game than an intentional snipe. I don't think there is anyone out there that thinks that multiboxers are a problem in arenas. I think they were just lazy and couldn't find a quick way to do the follow break in just BGs.

[Palee]

I don't think that the sale was a scheme and I think that the dual ban was probably more about the way the mechanics of pvp regions are set up in game than an intentional snipe. I don't think there is anyone out there that thinks that multiboxers are a problem in arenas. I think they were just lazy and couldn't find a quick way to do the follow break in just BGs.

Man, read this quote again and tell me what you think then:

Right now /follow is also disabled in Arenas, but we’re looking to revert that change as bots don’t typically exist in Arenas, and multiboxing in that kind of pre-determined group environment doesn’t tend to be as disruptive.

After you read that quote, read just this part 10 times:

as bots don’t typically exist in Arenas, and multiboxing in that kind of pre-determined group environment doesn’t tend to be as disruptive.

[Palee]

What I mean in case it's not clear, is that they just don't like us, that we are disruptive of their gameplay. Saying that they are looking to revert that change it means they could have not done it in the first place. I don't think it's a lazy kind of thing.

[moosejaw]

I only had 2 accounts active when 5.2 hit and I am so glad I didn't do 6 month subs for all of my accounts ( I almost did that a few weeks back). Last night I transferred my 2 personal guilds to my best friend here in STL with the strong possibility of not coming back. When I took time off the game previously I kept the guilds in my hands. I feel I have logged in for the last time.

During the xmass 2011 sales I picked up battlechests and expansions in anticipation of 10 boxing. Yesterday I gave a coworker a cata box and a wrath key so she could start catching up to her husbands account. My best friend was going to start a second account so I can boost him to cata if he goes through with it.

When I canceled my other accounts a while back I noted the increasing hostile atmosphere toward boxers and that blizzard wasn't doing enough to counter the misinformed.

For blizzard with love,


http://youtu.be/lsMaBta4SxI

[Meathead]

hahaha ^^^ So true....DONE! But once the makers of the bot's get around this follow issue there will be tons back in the BG's Botting. Give it a few weeks Ima kno

[Palee]

hahaha ^^^ So true....DONE! But once the makers of the bot's get around this follow issue there will be tons back in the BG's Botting. Give it a few weeks Ima kno
Do we know for sure that the bots are using follow? I saw a video on youtube where they showed a ton of bots in IoC and they were clearly not using follow, but instead some kind of pathing hack. They were going in all sort of directions, not following anyone.

[Sam DeathWalker]

As far as I'm concerned, it's not one action, it's several recent actions. This, the OQueue thing, the automatic bans, getting booted when mass-reporting in the outside world, the "tolerated, for now" blue comment, the massive increase in bots in BGs as well as farming bots going unchecked for far too long.


They are in Court, in Germany, with attornies suing the bot company, and they won at the low level. There is no way anyone can conclude they are not doing their very best to eliminate bots.
Oq allowed premades to go agaisnt randoms, a HUGE problem.
Auto bans and reports were ALL reversed against boxers.
A random blue quote later taken back.....
And maybe the bot problem was not addressed previously because they knew solutions would have adverse effect on boxers.

All and all most everything has resonable and logical explainations. If they wanted to be done with boxers they could come out and say it like GW2.


Some garbage bots use follow, I doubt the major paid ones do. There is no technical solution to bots they read data from ram and act on it, even random get stuck things wont work if the reading is in real time. If you know the offsets and where to look in ram where wow stores its game information there is nothing you cannot do. Wow has to store map data in ram and if wow can read where everything is so can another program ..... forget about a technical solution to bots.

Just think about it for a second. You command your level 89 to fly in panderia. Wow stores information as to the level of your character in ram, you command fly wow goes to a ram address and gets your level to determine if you are 90 or not. Bot program changes 89 to 90 in the ram address storing your character level information and wow thinks you are level 90 .... what can they do about that?

[Meathead]

Like I said ages ago, Wow needs to update there game engine or bots will be in it forever. But they dont want to do that and have no time or effort to do so.

[zenga]

Like I said ages ago, Wow needs to update there game engine or bots will be in it forever. But they dont want to do that and have no time or effort to do so.

The amount of uninformed nonsense posted in this thread is amazing. There are both technical and legal limitations (depending on where you are located) to what blizzard (or warden) can scan on your computer (i.e. check your memory). Updating there engine won't change nor prevent botting in the future.

Google the main bot, head to that forum, check the ban section: many bg botters got banned over the past weeks, to the extend that it's no longer considered safe. They manually intervene in BG's, real humans checking out players. A lot of logistic and human resources are devoted to that. Long story short:

It's the same thing as speeding on the high way or driving when smashed: you can't prevent it, but when you know that there is a good chance that you will get caught with severe repercussions, a big % will actually abide the rules. And that is something they have achieved now. If they will be able to keep up, that's a whole different thing. But in Europe, the amount of active bots in bg's during the night has decreased by a multitude. creating a much more fun gaming experience for everyone in random bgs.

[Palee]

All and all most everything has resonable and logical explainations. If they wanted to be done with boxers they could come out and say it like GW2.

Sam, what you are saying implies that if we DO find a workaround in BGs to replace follow Blizzard would be TOTALLY OK with it.
But given the sequence of events and their responses, I highly doubt that. I'm scared to do any more BGs now even WITHOUT follow because I think Blizzard will just find yet another way to force me to stop multiboxing in BGs.
Which is why I got a refund for my subs. Not paying them a dime unless they come out clearly and state that MULTIBOXING IS OK IN BGS.


Also, in a different perspective, if they came out and just said that Multiboxing is no longer allowed, that would be bad for business. The strategy that they chose to follow (pun intended) is more covert and makes some of the boxers think that they can still PVE or do world PVP so there's no reason to cancel.
In other words, they are just putting out fires with as little collateral damage as possible. And in this case the fires consist in all the whining about multiboxing that has increased over the last few years as multiboxing got more and more popular. And they are using the bots as an excuse to get rid of those of us who are the most annoying to the playerbase. And that means those of us who like PVP in BGs.

[Rosebud]

I'm going to over-simplify things. If removing /follow was the secret to detecting and removing bots, why did they not do it sooner? I'm not a game programmer or developer, but it cannot be difficult to disable that function. Actually it is probably one of the easiest things for them to do. Has it really taken them all these years to figure out that /follow was the key? Unlikely. It could be a tiny bit helpful, but in the end, I do believe that multiboxers were the target. Bots, oddly enough, are the scapegoat.

[moog]

Just think about it for a second. You command your level 89 to fly in panderia. Wow stores information as to the level of your character in ram, you command fly wow goes to a ram address and gets your level to determine if you are 90 or not. Bot program changes 89 to 90 in the ram address storing your character level information and wow thinks you are level 90 .... what can they do about that?

Er, encrypt the data.
CRC the data.
But it's easier to ostracise MBers and panda (see what I did there) to the gullible masses!

[Meathead]

You know whats funny, Is that the main used bot does not use the follow function. I say give it a few months they then will be like ok lets turn it back on, we have lost a lot of subscribers who are mainly botters I would assume then they see how many people really play there game. I remember if using AHK you can get banned but we use that to MB back in the day.

I started MBing back in the day when TBC was out, I got bored of playing only 1 toon. BGS are boring as hell without friends or your 5 man team.

[pinotnoir]

Guys, the fact that they disabled /follow in arenas too, is a clear sign that removing /follow was actually a direct ban of multiboxing in PvP.
Blizz knows there are no bots in arena. How can there be bots there? How would a bot follow a legit player in arena? How would a bot even queue in the same arena with a legit player?
They targeted us without a doubt. And they threw us a sale too before this change hoping that they can string us a long a little more.
They knew very well some of us will cancel and some of us might even call to get a refund, but not all of us are doing that.
So the thinking process went like this:

Blizz emp1: We are killing multiboxing in PvP. It causes too much whining and people leaving the game.
Blizz emp2: OK, since they are gonna leave, let's throw them a sale so we can offset the losses as much as we can.

If they had kept /follow in arena then their pathetic excuse would have sounded more realistic, but they didn't.

I totally agree with this.

[MiRai]

I'm going to over-simplify things. If removing /follow was the secret to detecting and removing bots, why did they not do it sooner? I'm not a game programmer or developer, but it cannot be difficult to disable that function. Actually it is probably one of the easiest things for them to do. Has it really taken them all these years to figure out that /follow was the key? Unlikely. It could be a tiny bit helpful, but in the end, I do believe that multiboxers were the target. Bots, oddly enough, are the scapegoat.
Perhaps they've been avoiding it because of multiboxers and/or handicapped individuals who rely on it.


Er, encrypt the data.
CRC the data.
From what I've read on random forums randomly on the internet, SquareEnix does this with both FFXI and FFXIV. If you've ever played either game you would realize it's much slower paced, and from what I understand, the encryption is partially responsible for that (that, and the fact the servers are located across the ocean in Japan). This doesn't necessarily stop botting altogether, but I'm sure it makes it much harder to accomplish.


Just think about it for a second. You command your level 89 to fly in panderia. Wow stores information as to the level of your character in ram, you command fly wow goes to a ram address and gets your level to determine if you are 90 or not. Bot program changes 89 to 90 in the ram address storing your character level information and wow thinks you are level 90 .... what can they do about that?
From what you're saying, it sounds like you believe all of the server's data is stored in RAM on your home computer. That would mean you could just change the values in your RAM to level everyone up on the server to 90! Just think about it for a second...

[Shodokan]

The steps posted on the forums are sorta what you can do, but the other gimmicks to follow still while mounted and such help a lot to get people to the places they need to go.

The only thing that stops me from doing RANDOM bgs is the fact that if you are kept in combat you'll never get to leave the place you are at currently.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Er, encrypt the data.
CRC the data.
But it's easier to ostracise MBers and panda (see what I did there) to the gullible masses!

And the game does not lag enough as it is, you want frame rates even lower?




From what you're saying, it sounds like you believe all of the server's data is stored in RAM on your home computer. That would mean you could just change the values in your RAM to level everyone up on the server to 90! Just think about it for a second...

http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/misc/progress.gif
WoW goes to the server and gets information that your toon is level 89, when the server sends that info back to wow it goes into ram ..... as soon as it hits ram the bot program has access to the information.

You cannot store all information server side else the data requried between the client and server would go up to much.

Its not as simple as either of us are saying I am sure there are a number of check server side if you sent information to the server as to your level, or the server my not ask for such information.


But the point is there is no way to stop the bots; crc and whatnot would cause to much lag, as would storing more information server side.

[blast3r]

Just logged on and found out about the no follow in BGs. This is where I did my most playing at. Guess I need to log in to each toon and transfer gold to a few toons and just disable them all. Total 16 accounts.

[Rosebud]

Perhaps they've been avoiding it because of multiboxers and/or handicapped individuals who rely on it.


I thought of that. Bots are abundant but not at an all time high. Years ago they were just as bad if not worse. I rarely did pvp as the bots were so bad. Multiboxers are at an all time high, it seems, though you all should know better than me. As far as handicapped, I would think they are much higher in numbers than previously since the game has been simplified more than ever.

At this point, I still believe that multiboxers were the target. Bots were the scapegoats. And the handicap were the collateral damage. Of course, the person at Blizzard who pursued this action may not have fully taken into consideration the real effect of it all.

I'm trying to be objective. I never multiboxed in bgs, nor do I have much time or money invested in it. It affects me a lot less. Just looking at it. Just seems very odd; their reasoning that is.

[MadMilitia]

Queues have almost doubled for randoms. To me that says a lot less are queuing. Probably waiting on software updates for their bot.

[Meathead]

Last time I went in a BG Queues was like 2 mins now its like 8 mins , just shows you how many people were botting in battlegrounds. I would say they are going to lose a lot of subscribers, even if they botted in BG's only and played the game for the rest. BG's are so dam boring I usally watch a movie while playing. I dont support botting, but bots rule world of warcraft.

[Chivalrous]

Doesn't show anything really, could be people are trying to unlock that island or doing the new raid. /shrug

my server has a lot of trash farming rep groups running right now on top of that.

[Meathead]

What is sad is I just got 5 new accounts for RAF, now should I level a few to 80 and use my RAF time ect. Or just quit while im ahead, My goal was pvp and pve in wow but atm I feel way too sad too play wow all together! :( maybe I will just go farm instances since I cant do anything else with my dam 5 man team! screw you bliztard!

[Majo]

I bought my 4 new accounts a week before the patch. I just asked for a refund and they actually did it - refund on all four accounts.

[blast3r]

What if they only allowed /follow if you follow someone in the same realm and/or guild?

Thoughts? A possible solution for Blizzard to enable /follow in BGs for boxers.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197589941#1

Care to share your macros? :)

[valle2000]

What if they only allowed /follow if you follow someone in the same realm and/or guild?
Or allow follow within same bnet-account would allow us to at least 5-box.

Its however so obvious multiboxers were the real targets here. I see a lot of bots in BG, but it was a really long time ago I actually did see a bot following someone. (And those follow-bots who actually did exist will just upgrade to smarter bots now).

So either they are not telling the truth to our faces OR they are so naive and have listened to all those reports from people who can’t spot the difference between a bot and a multiboxer.

Also I paid all my accounts 6 months in advance right before Christmas and still have two months left on all. This really pisses me off. I made a ticket about refund for the remaining weeks but haven't got any reply yet.

[ebony]

What if they only allowed /follow if you follow someone in the same realm and/or guild?

Thoughts? A possible solution for Blizzard to enable /follow in BGs for boxers.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197589941#1

Care to share your macros? :)



this would take time to recode the game & there for supporting us sounds easy but they going to spend time fixing something that needs fixing or addeing follow for us.

The best we can see it back in RBG and Arana play if we lucky

[Ualaa]

There are numerous workarounds they could implement, and I'm sure the think-tank type guys at Blizzard have numerous options on the table, if they wanted to offer a multiboxing friendly environment.

However, 90% of your customer demographic seems to be heavily against boxing, even if they're uninformed and don't know the differences between boxing and botting.
Catering to your 90%, to keep them as happy as possible, is going to be a better financial decision than catering to the fewer boxers, even if per person they bring in far greater revenue (lets say, for argument 10% of the demographic brings in 15% of the revenue).

The change was aimed at boxers, at least partially.
Otherwise the Arena change to Follow would not have been included.
Bots are not an issue in Arena, yet Follow was removed there too.

While the timing of the sale, to just prior to the implementation of the Follow nerf, is not necessarily related... Blizzard is not stupid.
They had to realize the removal of Follow, would essentially kill PvP boxing aside from world PvP.
With an overall declining subscription base, and boxers consistently picking up 5-10 extra accounts here or there... for RAFing 2-3 new teams, or to attempt 10/15/20 boxing... Boxers make up a disproportionate amount of the sales.
There is no way, Blizzard as a company did not know the Follow change was coming; it is not like, 3 hours before the patch some guy says, 'What if we remove Follow from BGs/RBGs/Arena'? with his supervisor saying, 'Sure, that's throw that in as an extra change'.

So the whole... big sale, which boxers traditionally take massive advantage of... combined with, they know Follow nerfs which will kill the ability to box for numerous players, are coming... combined with no warning of the change, in patch notes or on the Test Realm... combined with it also applies to Arena, where bots are not present but boxers are...
It is basically impossible for an intelligent person to not conclude: Blizzard is against boxing in PvP, because it negatively impacts their large percentage of the player base... but Blizzard still wants boxers to dump money into the game, for PvE... so is not outright banning it.

[blast3r]

I did read that they are looking at putting /follow back into arena and did admit there was not a botting problem there.

[Sam DeathWalker]

[
However, 90% of your customer demographic seems to be heavily against boxing

You mean 90 percent of the customer demographic that posts on the forum in which boxers threads are read by 5000 at the very most.

I am sure we are hated by 5 percent and 95 percent could care less eaither way.




I did read that they are looking at putting /follow back into arena and did admit there was not a botting problem there

And I don't see where /follow has been removed from rated battle grounds.

Again I dont see why any of you are quitting.

1) If you are not on a pvp server then how do you complain about lack of pvp; clearly you were not so interested in pvp from the start.

2) If you are on a pvp server there are all kinds of places you can go for pvp; the new thunder isl quests, the world bosses, the enemy capitals.

3) If you want gear then do rated battle grounds and take the cheap win when your oppenets dosnt show up, its fast and totaly legal. Its not your fault that your oppenets are so frightened of your prowess they leave before the battle starts. (actually they might hate the map, one of them had a bad connection, they argued amoust themselves aboutt stratagy and someone left so they all left, or they saw you names all the same and thought they might lose).

Tell me exactly what you cannot do to replace whatever you did AV for.


There are SO MANY ways to get gear in this game; trade skills, quests, raids, world pvp. You can get raid gear and use pvp gems if you want pvp gear, its just goes on and on. And your boxer you dont NEED 522 in each slot to faceroll people.



I did try AV a couple of times, first time I said nothing and they reported me for being a bot; second time I said I was a boxer and would hearth to the boss and play defensive. I did but what kind of a game is that 30 ally attack me when I zone in, I do a bunch of aoe and die, and hearth in again and delay them a bit and die again and hearth in again and delay them and bit and die again. Thats just stupid so Iam doing the thunder isl quests as I dont have much else to do. And the world bosses but already did Galeaon and Sha this week.

IWT is poision if your target dies you run all over the place. the mammonth works somewhat but .... all these work arounds are not practical for casters, maybe mellee is ok not sure.

[Palee]

[

You mean 90 percent of the customer demographic that posts on the forum in which boxers threads are read by 5000 at the very most.

I am sure we are hated by 5 percent and 95 percent could care less eaither way.




And I don't see where /follow has been removed from rated battle grounds.

Again I dont see why any of you are quitting.

1) If you are not on a pvp server then how do you complain about lack of pvp; clearly you were not so interested in pvp from the start.

2) If you are on a pvp server there are all kinds of places you can go for pvp; the new thunder isl quests, the world bosses, the enemy capitals.

3) If you want gear then do rated battle grounds and take the cheap win when your oppenets dosnt show up, its fast and totaly legal. Its not your fault that your oppenets are so frightened of your prowess they leave before the battle starts. (actually they might hate the map, one of them had a bad connection, they argued amoust themselves aboutt stratagy and someone left so they all left, or they saw you names all the same and thought they might lose).

Tell me exactly what you cannot do to replace whatever you did AV for.


There are SO MANY ways to get gear in this game; trade skills, quests, raids, world pvp. You can get raid gear and use pvp gems if you want pvp gear, its just goes on and on. And your boxer you dont NEED 522 in each slot to faceroll people.



I did try AV a couple of times, first time I said nothing and they reported me for being a bot; second time I said I was a boxer and would hearth to the boss and play defensive. I did but what kind of a game is that 30 ally attack me when I zone in, I do a bunch of aoe and die, and hearth in again and delay them a bit and die again and hearth in again and delay them and bit and die again. Thats just stupid so Iam doing the thunder isl quests as I dont have much else to do. And the world bosses but already did Galeaon and Sha this week.

IWT is poision if your target dies you run all over the place. the mammonth works somewhat but .... all these work arounds are not practical for casters, maybe mellee is ok not sure.

While everything you're saying is true, some of us just enjoyed boxing in BGs. In world PvP you can't really do it much, they call more people and in a matter of minutes the PvP is over with you dead. In BGs at least it's a controlled environment where sometimes you pwn and sometimes you get pwned. Winning all the time or losing all the time is not fun either way.

[Deathbeast]

Sam - I LOVE bg's and I am an ach whore so I am still farming my warsong and Arathi Basin reps also, I am on a pvp server and as much as world pvp is fun in a lot of ways - how am I meant to gear up for arena and RBG's - BG's are the easiest way to get gear in order to explore the game and have more fun, raiding died for me after wrath (don't even do LFR) and I am not interested in any type of raiding gear what so ever. I am not going to be going into RBG's to lose and get points I play to win and win in every way I possibly can. I have cancelled all my accounts and after playing since Vanila I am pissed and will not be coming back till something is resolved with this.

[blast3r]

To PvP I need gear. BGs is the best way to get at least some decent gear to further PvP progress. I didn't know they didn't disable it for rated bgs!

[Sam DeathWalker]

To PvP I need gear. BGs is the best way to get at least some decent gear to further PvP progress. I didn't know they didn't disable it for rated bgs!

I dont honestly know we cant log into rated bgs' but surely there is no bot problem in rated bg's. But again we have no proof it has been disabled in rated bg's. But at any rate you dont need follow if your oppents do not show up .....

You can pvp in raid type gear by adding pvp gems ....

Dont get me wrong AV was also my favorite part of the game, it was more fun to lose 10 AV's in a row then do one stupid quest.

[Deathbeast]

I dont honestly know we cant log into rated bgs' but surely there is no bot problem in rated bg's. But again we have no proof it has been disabled in rated bg's. But at any rate you dont need follow if your oppents do not show up .....

You can pvp in raid type gear by adding pvp gems ....

Maybe 1 out of 100 RBG's on my battelnet no-one will turn up for. and just wait /follow bots in RBG's is what they will working on now I bet you as free conq for losing, It will be disabled in there soon enough put my money on it. I know you are trying to put a positive look on this for us, but for some of us there is no light at the end of the tunnel if things stay like this.

[blast3r]

I have never even done a rated bg. No idea how it works.

[Multibocks]

Maybe 1 out of 100 RBG's on my battelnet no-one will turn up for. and just wait /follow bots in RBG's is what they will working on now I bet you as free conq for losing, It will be disabled in there soon enough put my money on it. I know you are trying to put a positive look on this for us, but for some of us there is no light at the end of the tunnel if things stay like this.

damn windows phone, hard to post on forum.

Anyways I do lots of RBGs in the mornings PST and one in 10 no one shows. Very slow way to get points though and you need at least 10 accounts to queue.

[flux1]

[
IWT is poision if your target dies you run all over the place. the mammonth works somewhat but .... all these work arounds are not practical for casters, maybe mellee is ok not sure.

The mammoth isn't a solution as they are starting to do account suspensions for it and the GMs are offering no help in getting them overturned.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49099-The-follow-workarounds-BAD-IDEA

[Shodokan]

The mammoth isn't a solution as they are starting to do account suspensions for it and the GMs are offering no help in getting them overturned.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49099-The-follow-workarounds-BAD-IDEA

One person getting suspended for it doesn't mean much.

I used it all weekend to gear my dks and no suspensions or bans

[valle2000]

One person getting suspended for it doesn't mean much.

I used it all weekend to gear my dks and no suspensions or bans
Well, they can only suspend you if you're reported. But if other people learns this method is bannable, more will start report in the future.

After this I wouldn't be surprised at all if future patches removes follow in both raids and dungeons as well. Blizzard have clearly shown they don't care about people using follow. It already started giving us problems in phased zones in Cataclysm and then crossing CRZ zones made us drop follow as well.

[moosejaw]

Well, they can only suspend you if you're reported. But if other people learns this method is bannable, more will start report in the future.

After this I wouldn't be surprised at all if future patches removes follow in both raids and dungeons as well. Blizzard have clearly shown they don't care about people using follow. It already started giving us problems in phased zones in Wrath and then crossing CRZ zones made us drop follow as well.

Fixed it for you. :)

[Fat Tire]

I guess we have to wait until the arena season starts to find out if follow is back in arena...

[Shodokan]

I guess we have to wait until the arena season starts to find out if follow is back in arena...

wargames?

[Fat Tire]

wargames?

Thought about that, but not sure if that would tell me if its going to be available in arenas. Two of my three subs are frozen since friday and dont want to re sub if I dont know for sure.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Very slow way to get points though and you need at least 10 accounts to queue.

Ya but they are conquest points not honor points .....




I used it all weekend to gear my dks and no suspensions or bans

How would you rate your effectivness (i.e. help to your team) compared to having /follow?

[Fat Tire]

Think I got my answer.

876

[Shodokan]

Thought about that, but not sure if that would tell me if its going to be available in arenas. Two of my three subs are frozen since friday and dont want to re sub if I dont know for sure.

I'll test it again in a min.

edit: still not working in arenas.

[smalltanker]

I think we should all be chatting with GC in twitter to keep hitting him on all fronts. I did respond to that tweet with a query about how boxers are supposed to gear their team for arena with out being able to do regular BGs. Keep some pressure on him and see if he caves. My first of six accounts that I cancelled ran out of time this weekend.

I wouldn't mind doing WG and TB if they would drop honor daily and possibly some small amount of conquest like some of the dailies do for Valor and Justice.

[Shodokan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UawpHOc5Ik

I lol'd

According to the video Rob found a way around it ;)

[Deathbeast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UawpHOc5Ik

I lol'd

According to the video Rob found a way around it ;)

Nice am awaiting to hear how he has done it then.

[Fat Tire]

That was pretty good.

I always wondered if it was follow focus or something I havent used in years.

[luxlunae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UawpHOc5Ik

I lol'd

According to the video Rob found a way around it ;)

I laughed so hard...

THE SEA LIONS. Thanks whoever ragewhispers is.

[Meathead]

So how did he do it? Im waiting to see if I want to play again

[F9thRet]

That video was hilarious Deathbeast.

Stephen

[Ualaa]

Very well played.

[Palee]

Awesome. I wish we could somehow make GC see it.

[Palee]

So guys, does anyone know if Multiboxing in BGs is actually legal now? Even if we don't have follow, are we allowed to play BGs boxed? That's what unclear to me.

[Ualaa]

They haven't disallowed it, just made it quite annoying and likely impossible to win unless the other team somehow doesn't show up.

I don't think Blizzard is capable of sending you to jail, for multiboxing in a BG, so definitely not illegal.

[smalltanker]

Awesome. I wish we could somehow make GC see it.

I twittered it to him earlier.

https://twitter.com/FiveBoxerGrimm/status/310946518175715328 not sure if that works but whatev...

[Ughmahedhurtz]

One thing to keep in mind is that although from the forums it would appear that everyone hates multiboxers those threads are only getting views in teh low 1000's. Considering a 6 million actual player base we cannot conclude from 200 or so posters that we are as hated as it appears. Obviously the VAST majority are indefferent.
Exactly. It's important to maintain perspective, even if the Great Unwashed refuses.

[tialk]

Great vid! ;-)

[Wait_what]

Nice am awaiting to hear how he has done it then.

As do I, I'm wondering if more then 3 characters cause if not it might just be the mammoth.

[Chivalrous]

That was very funny.

[misterkrep]

As do I, I'm wondering if more then 3 characters cause if not it might just be the mammoth.

you can multibox more than 3 characters if u make follow on vendors. I` m multiboxing 3 toons, but i dont mount them on my mammoth, i just make them follow with WT on the vendor. u can use a macro on slaves /target nameofthevendor, na use your interract with target key with click to move open and your slaves start follow. If you start moving you need to press your key to make that and your slaves will follow with one press until they reach your vendor. you can multibox a lot of tons with this the only problem is u can move only if u are mounted and i dont know if blizzard bans for this.

sorry for my english.

[Jafula]

I liked the video, it was very well done, although I think it was probably a little harsh on Ghostcrawler, a still lol'd. I have a lot of respect for Ghostcrawler and the WoW team. They make an awesome game and the level of community interaction is pretty good given the size of the customer base. <- My 2 cents.

[Khatovar]

you can multibox more than 3 characters if u make follow on vendors. I` m multiboxing 3 toons, but i dont mount them on my mammoth, i just make them follow with WT on the vendor. u can use a macro on slaves /target nameofthevendor, na use your interract with target key with click to move open and your slaves start follow. If you start moving you need to press your key to make that and your slaves will follow with one press until they reach your vendor. you can multibox a lot of tons with this the only problem is u can move only if u are mounted and i dont know if blizzard bans for this.

sorry for my english.

Doesn't look like it worked out so well for Heyaz. (http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49099-The-follow-workarounds-BAD-IDEA) I certainly wouldn't be surprised, they don't particularly like it when you use something to duplicate the behavior of something they explicitly removed.

[Meathead]

What happen to Heya did they ban him

[Alge]

I wonder why some of the words in Khatovar's post are a different color from the rest... What could that mean? Hey, if I put my mouse cursor over those words it changes shape! Hmmm, I wonder what that signifies....

[blast3r]

I just cancelled 10 accounts. :( Keeping 6 for right now until I figure out if I want to box anymore or not.

[samp]

I'm a 5 boxer. I'm don't PVP on multibox, but I'm gonna throw my support to fix this. It's a little offensive, also. "We'll take 5x money, and give you... half the game." I believe the blue's stance was they are okay with it going away from PVP. I'm okay with saving $1125 a year.

I did just cancel my subs on my 5 accounts for support.

[Ualaa]

Well the whole thing is...

We used to be 'Tolerated, but Supported'.
But they remove a key feature, that greatly impacts a large portion of the game... which for many is the main portion.
And it is removed from Arena too, where bots aren't an impact... strongly suggesting that boxers are the real target.

And they do it, in a shady way.
With no warning in the patch notes, no warning from weeks of play on the test realm.
And with a sale, that boxers buy a ton of accounts in, just prior to the stealth nerf that prevents boxers from using said accounts.



The PvE game is still there.
But given the removal of /Follow from battlegrounds... there's no real incentive to continue playing PvE, as who knows what key feature will go next, or if things will say rosy indefinitely...
Blizz has shown, they're catering to the whining masses, against boxing.
If in LFR, people are vocal enough, that the boxer is taking their loot by taking too many slots in the raid... will that be removed too?

If you want to PvP in battlegrounds, Rift is an option.
If you want to PvE, in a game that still has full boxer features (at least whatever the game had to begin with)... and which hasn't been shady against boxers... there are choices for that too.

I'm not saying, don't play Warcraft, if you find the game to still be fun.
Just that there are other options, especially if want to send Blizzard a message.

[Meathead]

I wonder why some of the words in Khatovar's post are a different color from the rest... What could that mean? Hey, if I put my mouse cursor over those words it changes shape! Hmmm, I wonder what that signifies....

Thats nice, I was on my mobile phone and scrolling thru it :) " Herp a DERP" Nice useless post btw

[Ronburgundy]

I laughed so hard...

THE SEA LIONS. Thanks whoever ragewhispers is.
lol im happy u enjoyed it. Figured we could all use a good laugh in these hard times.

[Fat Tire]

And it is removed from Arena too, where bots aren't an impact... strongly suggesting that boxers are the real target.



Everything I have read including the gc twitter response leads me to believe that the disabling of follow in arenas will be reverted.

[Meathead]

So, you are going to farm honor gear by instances? And why get pvp gear if you can only do arena with it, other players that are = gear as you and have more cc control. Arena atm is all about who gets the first blow.

[Fat Tire]

So, you are going to farm honor gear by instances? And why get pvp gear if you can only do arena with it, other players that are = gear as you and have more cc control. Arena atm is all about who gets the first blow.


Why would I need to do the honor grind? I have full 2/2 gear from S12. Only time I will need to do the honor grind is next expansion or if I bring up a new team. I only box 2/3 in arena and I enjoy the challenge and I have done well except this season where I got rocked pretty hard mostly, but S8-S11 I did pretty good. I also play arenas and rbgs solo alot as well.

Why would I gear up just to aoe people to death in AV like all the other mouthbreathers completely devoid of any challenge. That doesnt make sense to me, but whatever floats their boat.

[Shodokan]

Why would I need to do the honor grind? I have full 2/2 gear from S12. Only time I will need to do the honor grind is next expansion or if I bring up a new team. I only box 2/3 in arena and I enjoy the challenge and I have done well except this season where I got rocked pretty hard mostly, but S8-S11 I did pretty good. I also play arenas and rbgs solo alot as well.

Why would I gear up just to aoe people to death in AV like all the other mouthbreathers completely devoid of any challenge. That doesnt make sense to me, but whatever floats their boat.

I had to [destroy] the mouth breathers in AV all weekend on my dks since i didn't bother gearing past the 3rd week last season and just made gold mostly.

85% win ratio isn't bad though.

Gearing up my rogue/mage/warriors/paladins and shaman with 2's and everything this season though. Don't wanna make the same mistake twice. Won't be competitive on my dks for like 2 months but thats k as I'm splitting them up for glad this season I hope.

[Rosebud]

Why would I need to do the honor grind? I have full 2/2 gear from S12. Only time I will need to do the honor grind is next expansion or if I bring up a new team. I only box 2/3 in arena and I enjoy the challenge and I have done well except this season where I got rocked pretty hard mostly, but S8-S11 I did pretty good. I also play arenas and rbgs solo alot as well.

Why would I gear up just to aoe people to death in AV like all the other mouthbreathers completely devoid of any challenge. That doesnt make sense to me, but whatever floats their boat.

I like pvp, but I hate arenas and would never do them. My characters do not have any pvp gear yet as I just finished leveling. I could buy some crafted, but I'd just get destroyed in arenas, which I hate anyway. My favorite is random battlegrounds. I'm just a dual-boxer, so I doubt that me wanting to play in bgs is really aoeing people to death. I would have to just take them in one at a time, but I paid for the second account and Isboxer in order to dual box. So, for me, it is paying for half of the game content - even less because dual boxing doesn't let me solo raids/dungeons.

[blast3r]

I respectfully request for people not to use the word "rape" when describing gaming. It is offensive and is a horrible thing that happens to mostly women and destroys lives.

[Janus]

If in LFR, people are vocal enough, that the boxer is taking their loot by taking too many slots in the raid... will that be removed too?



My 2 cents on this is for people not to queue in LFR if they intend to multibox. What would the point be? We have other ways to do PVE in cross realm raids, where no one will whine on who is taking what loot. Let's face it, we have a bad rep, and patly is because we brought it on ourselves. Adding fuel to the fire (especially now) and getting more crippling blows to our playstyle is counterproductive, when the alternative (setting a cross realm raid) is easier, and readily available.

I have been mboxing PVE for over 5 years now. That's all I do. I adapt with each patch/change to make the best out of it and I have a pretty well geared team that I enjoy playing. Do I do LFR? Sure! But I do it on my tank because it's a quick join. Also, it boosts my VP for the week and with the 50% buff for the rest of my toons, i cap them quicker. There is no point joining a 25 man raid with all 5 of my toons, because I know i will not be able to control them as efficiently as if I were doing a dungeon or raiding with another boxer, AND I will be getting QQ from little kids whining and going to their mommy crying that the game is unfair.

Food for thought...

[Fat Tire]

I like pvp, but I hate arenas and would never do them. My characters do not have any pvp gear yet as I just finished leveling. I could buy some crafted, but I'd just get destroyed in arenas, which I hate anyway. My favorite is random battlegrounds. I'm just a dual-boxer, so I doubt that me wanting to play in bgs is really aoeing people to death. I would have to just take them in one at a time, but I paid for the second account and Isboxer in order to dual box. So, for me, it is paying for half of the game content - even less because dual boxing doesn't let me solo raids/dungeons.

Well one option that I did even before the follow fiasco with only dual boxing, is I have two monitors so I just had each character full screen and didnt have to swap monitors. I just took control of each going back and forth when I wanted. I did this alot with double mages since I hated turning to face the target and it worked great. I used the raf mount and didnt really use follow alot, like I do with melee.

[Rosebud]

Well one option that I did even before the follow fiasco with only dual boxing, is I have two monitors so I just had each character full screen and didnt have to swap monitors. I just took control of each going back and forth when I wanted. I did this alot with double mages since I hated turning to face the target and it worked great. I used the raf mount and didnt really use follow alot, like I do with melee.

I'm probably not all that versed in dual boxing to do that successfully. I do have melee too. In battlegrounds it seems so awkward since an area of battle requires so much movement. Mounting just to move to the other end of a skirmish seems awkward. It probably isn't for experienced players. Guess I could just defend something but if I only defend, which I know can be helpful. I'd probably get reported.

It's sort of a big deal to me. IF I had known this was going to happen a few months ago, I wouldn't have purchased another account/games, and I wouldn't have subbed for three years to Isboxer. I accepted not soloing dungeons or raids, but I had quests and bgs. Now, I just have quests. Exciting, right?

[luxlunae]

I respectfully request for people not to use the word "rape" when describing gaming. It is offensive and is a horrible thing that happens to mostly women and destroys lives.

this makes me feel uncomfortable as well.

And the way that LFR loot was before, it made people mad but I don't think anyone in LFR now would care because there is no proof that you took a piece of gear that they wanted. I'd advise that people be courteous and only go in with 1-2 toons if you're going to be the bottom of the pile on dps, but if you do fine dps then who cares or will even notice.

[Fat Tire]

Exciting, right?

Yea it sucks, but if it gets rid of the boxers who run random bgs even after they are already honor geared or higher who then are essentially greiefing players. These players who are usually in green+blues and are using random bgs for the intended purpose of getting geared up (almost like using a book for dummies) then I see the change only as a plus. Its also in my opinion on what brought the change about.

[MiRai]

DISCLAIMER:

Anyone who wishes to personally attack others in this thread will have their posts removed without warning. If it becomes a continuous problem you can expect a vacation.

I'm not sure why this has to be stated. :confused:

[valle2000]

The key problem for me now is trust. I don’t trust Blizzard any more.
Just a week ago no one even could think follow would be broken in BG and today it’s a fact. So if they now say “only in BGs” who knows what will happen in the future, cause if they plan extending it to dungeons and raids they sure as hell ain’t gonna tell us in advance. They have already shown they did this without any warning, so if they do it again same thing will happen for sure.

[Chivalrous]

So, you are going to farm honor gear by instances? And why get pvp gear if you can only do arena with it, other players that are = gear as you and have more cc control. Arena atm is all about who gets the first blow.

to be honest pretty sure with 100jp per boss instances might be faster to farm honor gear.

[Shodokan]

to be honest pretty sure with 100jp per boss instances might be faster to farm honor gear.

Depends on how fast you can clear them.

[Sam DeathWalker]

They have already shown they did this without any warning, so if they do it again same thing will happen for sure.

And their reason was that they wished to catch the botters unaware to ban as many as they possibly could. Is there anything unreasonable about that explanation?

[pinotnoir]

I have been running AV horde side with 1 win and the rest losses. I use the frostwolf insignia to teleport at the start. I try to disrupt as much as possible and hope the rest of the team can finish it off. So far it looks like the pvp grind will be very slow using that method. My account ends in 5 days. I had to give it a test before the accounts expire.

[valle2000]

And their reason was that they wished to catch the botters unaware to ban as many as they possibly could. Is there anything unreasonable about that explanation?
It is cause botters will just upgrade their software and continue on with new accounts. It’s like the police would do a massive blow against criminals just one day and then think they’re gone forever.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Thats correct but that dosnt mean their explaination was wrong, their plan was/is, as you say, completly ineffective but that dosnt mean they cant be trusted.

[Palee]

Sam, stop fooling yourself. Blizzard CANNOT be trusted, period. They will do whatever they want whenever they want. They will piss on any customer for any reason they see fit. They own the game, they do whatever they want with it.

[valle2000]

All they accomplished was to hit botters with a single blow at one specific time. But we (innocent bystanders who they claim are not the targets) will forever be unwanted in BGs because of this.

Blizzard are not a bunch of idiots, even they would know this is an ineffective method in the long run to stop bots. It would have been more honest to simply forbid multiboxing in BG instead of saying we weren’t the targets. This is why I don’t trust them now.

[Toned]

Hello! This is Steven from Blizzard Account & Technical Services. I was happy to assist you by phone today with removing those subscriptions and you won’t be auto charged when the game time runs out on your accounts.

If you need anything else, please don't hesitate to reopen the ticket or call us back. Happy gaming!

Account & Technical Services Rep
Steven D.
Customer Services
Blizzard Entertainment
www.battle.net/support

[Clovis]

I was about to reactivate my 5x accounts but decided to read the DB forums before I did.

I messaged an old buddy/guildie of mine that works for blizzard. He said he thinks it's going back in (/follow) he saw it on some designers white board.

There could be hope!

For me anyways, and I'm sure for you, the main reason I boxed was for PvP. If you can't PvP in BGs then what's the point. (There isn't one).

[Vegas]

Everyone do yourself a favor and cancel your WoW accounts and sign up for some free Rift trial accounts. It's obvious to me now that Blizzard has taken a stance against Multiboxing and any hope any of you have of /follow ever coming back is misleading.

Rift is a very WoW-like game, so you'll pick it up fast, and I've come to like it even more as it has plenty of features WoW doesn't have. Multiboxers are moving to Rift in herds, and I joined a multiboxing guild right away from other people doing the same thing as me. The makers of Rift, Trion, welcome multiboxers. They want our business. Blizzard does not want our business anymore. WoW is dead to me... it's a shame after I spent 8 years pouring money into that game that they would treat their customers this way, but that's what they've done. So screw 'em.

[Meathead]

of course they are going to put it back in since it did not effect the majority of the big botting company's who are one step ahead,

[Toned]

Any good bot doesn't use /follow anyways, lol. Like lamest excuse ever.

[fleaplus]

If anyone is curious, the PVP daily quests opened up today on Kil'Jaeden. I was able to get them completed in about an hour, got about 600 honor as well as 50 conquest points. If you add that with the 400 you can get via the old Grizzly Hill's PVP dailies, thats about 1000 a day, or a piece of gear every 2-3 days. Probably good enough to gear up for arenas if they make that possible again. Not quite as good as BG's, but not that bad a rate either. Plenty of world PVP going on too, ruinous was out there as usual doing their thing, and there were also quite a few decent horde groups out there as well.

[valkry]

I'm still going to stick around and see if they bring back /follow, but have cancelled my subs until they do. Still like playing solo, I did start this game solo playing after all...

PS: Though I have been playing a LOT of league of Legends recently instead of wow haha

[thefunk]

Multiboxing 2 kids at home, I sometimes wish I could turn /follow off.

[Tin]

LoL

[Chivalrous]

Soon their IWT will have them running off all crazy in different directions and they'll be stuck in corners.

[ebony]

Any good bot doesn't use /follow anyways, lol. Like lamest excuse ever.

they use follow as a backup. not all the time but they do use it the bots getting suck in bg is kinda funny

[Chivalrous]

they use follow as a backup. not all the time but they do use it the bots getting suck in bg is kinda funny

I saw 2 bots in AV running into the wall in the cave and reported both for cheating. (Hope they didn't just DC with auto-run on or something)

I am leveling DK up through BGs.. Was doing 3 paladins, 1 DK, and a disc priest but now just a lonely DK and I miss having the other 4.

[blast3r]

What server/guild/faction, etc on the Rift server? I just created one account to get a feel for it. Looks amazing, actually.

[Wait_what]

Any bets for when they take Auto Run off?

[Vegas]

What server/guild/faction, etc on the Rift server? I just created one account to get a feel for it. Looks amazing, actually.

I play on Seastone, the only North American PvP server atm, as a Guardian. The guild we are in is called "Heavy Weight Boxers". 3 boxers so far. Come join us!

[blast3r]

I play on Seastone, the only North American PvP server atm, as a Guardian. The guild we are in is called "Heavy Weight Boxers". 3 boxers so far. Come join us!

Thanks, going to set up a team of rogues. Having problems being able to paste into all game clients for some odd reason. Only allows paste into a single one. weird.

[Fat Tire]

Anyone had a chance to see if follow works in arena? I am still working and cant atm.

[Shodokan]

Anyone had a chance to see if follow works in arena? I am still working and cant atm.

I just got home from work so i'll check as soon as tich is up.

Edit: still no.

[Chumbucket]

I quit my subs back when Blizz was wrongfully banning Boxers in December. I was thinking of coming back as there seemed to be some indication that Blizz had figured out a way to ban botters without affecting boxers and maybe it was just a mistake that they treated boxers like refuse. I see this thread and Holy Crap!!

I can't imagine a company treating a loyal customer base more poorly. To be "Okay" with throwing boxers under the bus only to very temporarily slow botters seems dim. Botters gonna bot. What does starting over matter to them. They just run a program.

To do it in ninja fashion seems cruel. Some people not only bought more copies of the game (Vanilla on up) but upgraded computers for the new patch only to find out "surprise you can't run BGs, LOL!!!"

If anyone trusts these clowns after this, God bless them.

[Meathead]

they use follow as a backup. not all the time but they do use it the bots getting suck in bg is kinda funny

Sorry to say but they dont. They use a something that will look for the biggest group of players then use mesh pathing. Why I dont get how blizzard thought this was going to work.

[heyaz]

Sorry to say but they dont.

I believe you are mistaken.

[ebony]

if they wonted us out the game they would off banned its not hard! Seems they need a patch to add us to follow in Arena so we going to have to wait for a hot fix patch.

[Meathead]

I believe you are mistaken.

If you dont believe me go look up the most popular bot in WoW called Herp a DERPA, That blizzard have been trying to sue for years. They have not been affected at all by this /follow removed scheme, it was a quick think by blizzard's team to see if it would work and get rid of all the botters in BG's, since that is the main area bots are used in. But it did not work. I say it was a way to make people happy about getting killed by someone who can afford more accounts then them and playing them all at the same time :)

But hey you got banned by spamming 1 macro in a BG. There autoban system is crap and out of date. They need a new team of programmers but dont want to pay anymore then what they are now.

[Chivalrous]

Meathead dont mention bots by name it makes MiRai angry !! •.•

This isn't so bad really. With 100 JP per boss and heroics being so so easy with any amount of gear you can get honor quickly--plus the pvp dailies. And conquest will be easy since you can convert valor to conquest and you should be able to do arenas. After I've had time to think about it, I might admit I'm a bit ashamed of my over reaction.

[Meathead]

Just proving my point :) Since /follow did a tiny dint to the botting guys. But I say give it a few weeks they will place it back in.

[Mickthathick]

Actually it was patch 5.2 that put a dint in the bots, as the program always gets broken at patch time due to the changes on Blizzard's end.

[cmeche]

My opinion is that blizzard finally made a move to basicly nerf boxers without haveing to actually come out against boxing. This way "some" boxers won't cancel their subs. If Blizz came out and banned boxing altogether that is a 100% guaranteed drop in boxing subs. I really think they are this stingy.
i understand some don't agree with this, but just my thoughts.

[Syferr]

Ninjad from the WoW Forums, sry if its been posted here already or if this was someone who frequents here idea, but its a good point.

There is an option currently @ GameMenu>Interface for "Block all Trades".

Why not institute a "Block all Follow Option"?

If the toon attempts a second time to follow Anyone in that battleground, they will be instantly afk'ed.

And to prevent Griefing, the second attempt shall not register upon the screen of the second toon.

If this is part of a long pattern of behavior, then they will be banned.

Banned via the auto-filter, which many Multi-Boxers are probably familiar with recently.

[heyaz]

Lost cause guys. The rest of the player base, and blizzard, and happy with the change.

If they implement some new feature like that just for multiboxers, which they won't, it would take months. You wanna sit around and waste time or stop paying them?

[Blubber]

Lost cause guys. The rest of the player base, and blizzard, and happy with the change.

If they implement some new feature like that just for multiboxers, which they won't, it would take months. You wanna sit around and waste time or stop paying them?

It's not just a boxer feature, due to my visual impairment I absolutely depend on /follow in BGs, especially in the larger ones with a chaotic start. I (and many other disabled people) have posted on Blizzard and other gaming related forums pointing out this problem.

[moog]

Heavy hitting advertisement^H^H^H^H interview on IGN with GhostShagger covering the 5.2 patch and how it affected paying customers :)

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/03/11/world-of-warcraft-patch-52-greg-street-interview

[zenga]

Trying to prove your point by stating that the most sophisticated bot does not use /follow is plain dumb.

We disabled /follow from use in battlegrounds to curb some of the most basic types of bots that use the command.

There were enough bots around in bg's who would just /follow people. Rather than spending man hours on those reports, they can easily kill those 'basic' bots by disabling follow. The fact that they consider re-enabling it in arena is a concession towards multiboxers. They have always said that they tolerate multiboxing, but are not supporting it. which basically meant until they change something that makes it no longer possible (like disabling follow in bgs).

The vast amount of conspiracy theories and fallacies is amazing in this thread. I was under the impression that the multiboxing community here was a bit more mature and intelligent.

[Meathead]

They disabled follow due to the fact they cant find another way into getting rid of all the botting programs, It was a easy way out. I am assuming they took a while to do this because they did not want to wreck everyone elses fun Like us multiboxers.

But then they had to since bots rule BG's I remember I used to see about 5-10 botters per a bg, it was nuts.

But for the extreme botting software they will still control wow and its market.

[blast3r]

I have seen bots use the /follow command. They would follow me and I would scrape them off on something. In AV for a weekend I saw the same bots (7 or 8) were following one of the bots and would get stuck at the Horde Base entrance and run around in circles. Following each other. They could easily implement a follow system that would allow boxers to follow but not bots. I can speculate that when they were discussing this, they got the idea that a lot of people hate boxers in BGs so they took the easier way out and threw us out with the bath water.

[Fat Tire]

I just got home from work so i'll check as soon as tich is up.

Edit: still no.

I haven't gotten a chance to play and probably wont for a few days.

If you could keep checking everyday it would be appreciated. I got a feeling if and when they revert the follow change for arena it probably wont be announced.

[heyaz]

I haven't gotten a chance to play and probably wont for a few days.

If you could keep checking everyday it would be appreciated. I got a feeling if and when they revert the follow change for arena it probably wont be announced.

Still does not work as of 13:15 EST

[Fat Tire]

Still does not work as of 13:15 EST


thank you.

[heyaz]

Trying to prove your point by stating that the most sophisticated bot does not use /follow is plain dumb.

We disabled /follow from use in battlegrounds to curb some of the most basic types of bots that use the command.

There were enough bots around in bg's who would just /follow people. Rather than spending man hours on those reports, they can easily kill those 'basic' bots by disabling follow. The fact that they consider re-enabling it in arena is a concession towards multiboxers. They have always said that they tolerate multiboxing, but are not supporting it. which basically meant until they change something that makes it no longer possible (like disabling follow in bgs).

The vast amount of conspiracy theories and fallacies is amazing in this thread. I was under the impression that the multiboxing community here was a bit more mature and intelligent.

They killed a lot more bots than I thought they would, looking at all the people stuck at the entrance over AV weekend. Those were also the harder to detect bots (via client/server side methods); paradoxically the easiest ones to completely disable immediately.

I did a little research and it did some damage to the more sophisticated bots, and minor damage to the most sophisticated bots, but they worked around it quickly. Apparently they used /follow in some situations when necessary to, I guess, normalize things where the pathing got off.

It only made a small difference though. They knew from the start it only helped botting and RAF/LFR/etc. followers but the collateral damage to multiboxing? Acceptable risk.

I'm trying not to go to either extreme here, which is pretty common on all the posts - e.g. this was only to kill mutliboxers and did nothing to bots, or that this was really for bots and multiboxing was only a side effect. They killed some bots and annoying leachers. They crippled multiboxing in BGs too. They did both.

[muffe]

Rest in peace multiboxing

[JohnGabriel]

Well as MiRai (I think that was who) mentioned removing /follow probably wasn't what killed the bots, it was the patch. Every patch kills the bots and they have to update their software to get things working again.

The LFD 5% buff helps the PvE boxers, I am hoping they did that on purpose to ease some of our anger and hoping its not a bug they will remove.

[MiRai]

Rest in peace multiboxing battlegrounds in World of Warcraft
People just keep leaving out important details.


Well as MiRai (I think that was who) mentioned removing /follow probably wasn't what killed the bots,
Not I, but someone mentioned it (I'm too lazy to look for it).

[Chumbucket]

I'm no programmer; but, from what I gather from reading what programmers are saying, killing /follow will only affect a group of bots that are now being used but will have little to no effect on other available bots. I imagine a botter, whether farming gold, gear or whatever, wouldn't let killing /follow stop them from botting if there is a program that will still work. I just think Blizz may have temporarily slowed the botting problem but not for long, while it completely ruined boxing bgs. It just seems that there is a better solution.

It is a waste to ruin such an incredibly fun style of play that is so seamless that it is almost as if the game was designed to be boxed.

Here's a tip for a programmer who wants to create the next generation MMO. Make a game where you level, but as you level, you gain toons as well as gear and strength. Then everyone can box and the dynamics would be incredible. Talk about an addictive game. It would completely overshadow WoW.

[zenga]

I'm no programmer; but, from what I gather from reading what programmers are saying, killing /follow will only affect a group of bots that are now being used but will have little to no effect on other available bots. I imagine a botter, whether farming gold, gear or whatever, wouldn't let killing /follow stop them from botting if there is a program that will still work. I just think Blizz may have temporarily slowed the botting problem but not for long, while it completely ruined boxing bgs. It just seems that there is a better solution.

According to their statement it wasn't there intent nor their expectation to kill all bots, just the basic ones. While I completely reject botting, having an sophisticated bot in your team doesn't hurt your gaming experience/winning chances as much as having a bot who just is just following everyone on his mount (I've actually been owned by a bot in a 1v1 when I was playing an alt, they have a pretty good combat AI). And the /follow bots are the most obvious ones as well. As said before, there are limitations to what they both can scan and are allowed to scan on a player his computer (depending on legal privacy matters). There is simply not a 1 stop go all solution to weed out botting, it will be a never-ending fight. And the bots will only become more and more advanced / smarter. Really, if someone with the skills puts his mind and time to it, 10 bots will be able to take world first heroic kills, since they in theory will never fail as opposed to humans.


It is a waste to ruin such an incredibly fun style of play that is so seamless that it is almost as if the game was designed to be boxed.

Fun for the boxer, not so much fun for the one on the receiving end ...

[Meathead]

Follow will come back to BG's give it a little time. Since they will see that it did not effect many people. I am still going to keep playing and level my toons while we wait and see what they are doing.

[Cptan]

The vast amount of conspiracy theories and fallacies is amazing in this thread. I was under the impression that the multiboxing community here was a bit more mature and intelligent.

Surprised, or no more?

Blizzard is not stupid, for sure. They have tons of data/info/feedback to work on and decide what's best for the company, and they have a lot more things to worry than us. Follow removal is not the only weapon they use against bot in BG. If boxers create more negative actions toward other players, than we are bad. I won't be surprise they will be forced to restrict our play in PVE, like the solo raid quest...

[JohnGabriel]

Blizzard is required by law to make money for its shareholders, and since I own ATVI stock its my fault they broke /follow.

[Blubber]

Blizzard is required by law to make money for its shareholders, and since I own ATVI stock its my fault they broke /follow.'

Damn you!

[luxlunae]

Blizzard is required by law to make money for its shareholders, and since I own ATVI stock its my fault they broke /follow.

Write to the chief financial officer that you are worried that they made a change without warning that has angered the disabled community and lost subscriptions.

[MadMilitia]

Well as MiRai (I think that was who) mentioned removing /follow probably wasn't what killed the bots, it was the patch. Every patch kills the bots and they have to update their software to get things working again.

This exactly.

Anybody on the software dev side knows this happens. Not always but it does happen and 5.2 was no exception. 5.2 broke a lot of them.

[Lokked]

I haven't boxed WoW in a long time, but this is pretty sad that they destroy a PvP community with such impunity and disrespect.

Play LOTRO, I find it's pretty much the same as WoW, but more challenging to box (note: Challenging =/= Annoying). It's also free.

[EaTCarbS]

It's also free.

Kind of. Still a great game though.

[Oathbreaker]

Follow will come back to BG's give it a little time.

Negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.

[moosejaw]

Negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.

Don't spill your coffee!!

[Wait_what]

So I just saw someone multi boxing 5 rogues Dwarfs... no traveler or mammoth.. someone found a new way to do /follow in bgs (Saw it in AV)

[Owltoid]

So I just saw someone multi boxing 5 rogues Dwarfs... no traveler or mammoth.. someone found a new way to do /follow in bgs (Saw it in AV)

That was me. My 5-man Snusnu dwarf rogue team. I'm playing them on the stream for a couple more hours tonight.

[Wait_what]

That was me. My 5-man Snusnu dwarf rogue team. I'm playing them on the stream for a couple more hours tonight.

hahah I was the Hunter Orc with the Blood Elf priest on the lake when you where fighting that one guy and we came in.

[Owltoid]

I think I know what you're talking about, and you guys [destroyed] me. I'm not great with the rogues yet, and their gear is pretty awful, but I'm getting better.

[blast3r]

I think I know what you're talking about, and you guys [destroyed] me. I'm not great with the rogues yet, and their gear is pretty awful, but I'm getting better.

Please don't use the word "rape"!!! It is very triggering for some people.

[Wait_what]

I think I know what you're talking about, and you guys [destroyed] me. I'm not great with the rogues yet, and their gear is pretty awful, but I'm getting better.

haha ya I sent you a pm btw.

[Meathead]

You can still MB in BG's I found a way to carry all my men then IWT works great :)

[heyaz]

You can still MB in BG's I found a way to carry all my men then IWT works great :)

That great method got me a 72 hour suspension for exploitation of game mechanics... be careful.

[Emenems]

Yeah blizz broke /follow because they dont want us so even if u find new way to multibox they still dont want us there...

[Owltoid]

To be clear, Blizz did not break /follow to stop multiboxers, they broke it to stop some bots. They stated they knew the ramifications on multiboxers and were fine with the collateral damage. Multiboxers were NOT the stated target.

[Invisahealz]

That was me. My 5-man Snusnu dwarf rogue team. I'm playing them on the stream for a couple more hours tonight.

how did u get it to work please?

[aasi888]

how did u get it to work please?
I was wathcing his stream:

- Strafe keys
- Strafe keys
- Strafe keys
- Shadowstep AV mobs to lineup toons.
- Running to walls with strate keys to re-sync group or to change facing direction
- If group spread out use AV trinket to teleport
- Don't touch: turn left / turn right buttons

[Wait_what]

I was wathcing his stream:

- Strafe keys
- Strafe keys
- Strafe keys
- Shadowstep AV mobs to lineup toons.
- Running to walls with strate keys to re-sync group or to change facing direction
- If group spread out use AV trinket to teleport
- Don't touch: turn left / turn right buttons
I think he means how to set it up, I myself am very hopeless when these kind of things come up and often need guidance the the Wiki linked into ISboxer didnt help much at all.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I gave up on AV but there is a ton of other stufffs to do.

Plus I really feel that running less then 27 at a time is foolish for me.

Doing Sha of Anger and Galleon once a week, and trying to do Oondasta.

I'v done the single character quest for isle of thunder on 5 guys so far (dks are op lol ...) and those guys can do PVP Dailies:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=210711/isle-of-thunder-preview-pve-and-pvp-dailies-troll-transmog-single-player-scenari


Sure they took AV but there is no shortage of PvP even on a pve server with those dailies, as they send you into the other sides base camp.

[Invisahealz]

there is definitely no shortage of world pvp, been having quite some fun but need to find a faster way to get the honor gear now.

[Chivalrous]

I bought GW2 today, gonna play that some. I'm burnt out on MoP. It just feels like a job for not much fun pve-wise, I had started doing BGs before 5.2 hit. I tried single player BGs and didn't have fun, and I tried raiding single player but with my job can't keep a schedule. Not any friends really that play anymore sooo... Think I'm done with WoW for now. Ill say /follow when I cancel my subs.

[Owltoid]

There is no reason to avoid AV. I think anyone who watched my stream yesterday can attest to me playing at 90% capacity of what I could do prior to the removal of /follow. If you have a melee team, and a two or three person mount that can be interacted with, then BGs are still viable. I'll be streaming more on Monday if you want to see it in action or discuss how it's done. I have already farmed over half my honor gear, including weapons, in a few days.

Quite frankly, I think all BGs are viable again with the right team (rogues or DKs will make it much easier, but other melee is good too). The only thing stopping me from just doing randoms is I need more gear and I need to work on my rogue rotations.

[pinotnoir]

Before my subs ran out I did av without follow. My team was about 70% less effective at helping the team. I defended the flag for awhile. Once I got the frostwolf insignia I used it to defend the base. With IWT the shaman could still kill people but it was much less effective without follow. You can still earn honor and get gear. I don't really see what the point in gearing them up would be. It's not like you can do arenas or have fun in bg's like before. I almost stayed to pve but decided to quit instead. The majority of my teams are pvp based. My Dk team, warrior team, mage team, and two 5 shaman teams on different servers would be a complete waste of time with the change. That would leave me with my two pve teams. I imagine my multiboxer days are over.