Follow In Battlegrounds Broken After 5.2

[MiRai]

The follow command no longer seems to be working in Battlegrounds or Arenas, but still works in PvE instances, Arena, and the outside world.

EDIT: Confirmed working as intended - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8088199775

Original reply prior to his edit - http://i.imgur.com/8pGZUBH.png

Imgur backup in case of thread deletion - http://i.imgur.com/mDPCGWx.jpg

EDIT #94 - Bashiok responds to why follow was eliminated in BGs & Arena - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=6#104

EDIT: Follow in Arena has been restored as of 3/19.

[heyaz]

did you enable "load out of date addons"?

[Oldboxer]

I was about to post the same thing. Works as normal outside of BG's. My follow macro doesn't work in BG's, nor does clicking on the drop down menu from a character icon. It gives the message "You can't follow that unit."

[MiRai]

did you enable "load out of date addons"?
After some reports coming in on the #isboxer IRC channel I joined a battleground on my solo character, right-clicked another player's portrait, and clicked "Follow"

I received a "You cannot follow that unit" error message.

[heyaz]

Yeah just got another report of that from some people on vent.

[Mosg2]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8088619711#1

Go post so we can get an answer.

[MiRai]

Blue reply:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8088199775

[CMKCot]

yep, its over.

[Oatboat]

Crazy, I mean thats good for the big swarm of botters to get deterred but really kills those multi's that love to pvp in bgs

[Mosg2]

The reply has already been altered. Let's cross our fingers.

[MiRai]

Original reply prior to his edit - http://i.imgur.com/8pGZUBH.png

[CMKCot]

if you are really into wishful thinking you could try to ask blizzard to revert the change, but lets be honest here, they wont revert the change just because it affects boxers. if all you do is pvp, cancel the subs and move on.

you can still follow in instances, and worldmap.

[Mamut]

Was so excited for PVP in 5.2, just paid my 5 subs 2 days ago.

Wish i had saved the money, now I'll have 4 accounts idle for the next 2 month :(

Why would they ninja that in? I cant believe it will even slow the botting that is going on these days.

[MiRai]

Was so excited for PVP in 5.2, just paid my 5 subs 2 days ago.

Wish i had saved the money, now I'll have 4 accounts idle for the next 2 month :(

Call them up and demand a refund. A legitimate play style that has been tolerated for over 8 years now looks to have been purposefully crippled without notice.

[Nikita]

So basicly, tomorrow, when I logg in to farm PvP gear on my locks, I get screwed over cus the follow command wont work? I'll be doing a serious rant phone call it this goes through!

[EaTCarbS]

This is... just wow. I'll be cancelling my subs until this is reverted.

[Oldboxer]

Follow up Blue post saying he didn't know what he was talking about:

"This isn't really a Technical Support issue. If you'd like to discuss it, I suggest using the General Discussion forum as it's the appropriate location.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/


I edited my first post as I realized people might over-react to what was essentially my personal opinion. I don't believe people should be /following in Battlegrounds but that's not necessarily Blizzard's stance, just mine personally."

[MiRai]

My thread was locked. =(

[EaTCarbS]

My thread was locked. =(

Make MOAR!

[Mosg2]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087869766#1

Posted in the Bug Report forum. They do a good job answering there so let's see.

[heyaz]

Blizzard won't give a refund. Call your credit card company and file disputes. Credit card, not debit. Often the better the card and your relationship with them, the more they'll be willing to reverse a charge. American Express has been known to do it if you are simply dissatisfied with something you paid for.

[Mamut]

Unfortunately i used the WoW time cards for this last round of subs. Oh well at least i was just 5 boxing and not 25.

If they keep this change maybe its time to explore some other games or **cringe** play just a single account.

[MiRai]

Let's see if our buddy GC will reply!

https://twitter.com/multiboxology/status/309083954181468160

[Fat Tire]

Hopefully this is a bug, because damn.

If I was Lax I would be on the....

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSonASFg7UL0ja7c_OXC9TKy6jA_11v G2XxdINcytYA5va2R5ivg

[Baltyre]

Seems the end of boxing for me.

[Lyonheart]

no way this is intended? i mean that is a pretty fucked up thing to do when thousands of their players pay for multi accounts! And some have spent a lot of money based on /follow working.

[EaTCarbS]

To anyone who reads this thread: please visit the World of Warcraft forums and express your thoughts and opinions on this change.

[ElectronDF]

I don't want to sound like /RageQuit, but I don't like this enough to stop playing. Going to wait for a little to get idea if intended, but as soon as I find out if it is real, I will stop my subscriptions. Sad I played from beginning and boxed from 2007. I will move on to Starcraft 2 Heart of the Swarm out Mar 12th. /SadFace

[Fusionsouth]

Yeah I thought there would be some angry people here....

I really don't think this was intended. And if it was they definitally didn't think it through. They will lose thousands of accounts if this stays. And in reality they will probably lose hudreds even if they fix it. It wasn't in the patch notes and it wasn't on the PTR, so it looks like it is a bug or it slipped through the cracks without getting vetted...

I wouldn't flame Blizz too hard on their forums yet. It isn't worth getting suspended if they just fix it in a couple of days. I am going to wait and see what their response is before I do anything drastic.

Please, no one kill themselves just yet...

[pinotnoir]

If they do keep this no follow I will probably cancel. I am leveling a few teams right now and the collection quest are driving me nuts. If this follow thing is part of their plan that leaves nothing but pve for me. At that point I see no reason to box. You can easily do LFD heroics and LFR solo just as easy. I may keep one account. I really looked forward to the sharing of collections that was suppose to be in this patch. I guess they took that out and just made it an anti boxer patch.

[Fat Tire]

Yeah I thought there would be some angry people here....



I think most of us are mature enough to wait until a non idiot blue gives some sort of explanation as to the reasoning. If it is indeed "working as intended" then we will move on, not much else we can do.

[Owltoid]

Wow - certainly the end of WoW for me if this isn't fixed. I'm amazed. We all knew if Blizz wanted to stop multiboxing then removing /follow was the silver bullet. Never thought they would actually use it, though. I was so excited to try out my rogues in 5.2, but even if you had a dominating arena team who cares if you can't blow fools up in BGs.

[MiRai]

Has anyone tried out an arena match yet?

[heyaz]

To anyone who reads this thread: please visit the World of Warcraft forums and express your thoughts and opinions on this change.

Please don't. There's enough threads already, and for every boxer in favor of /follow, there are a dozen replies about boxer hate, it's only making it look worse. Blizzard does not make decisions based on any of those stupid forum posts. They make decisions based on data and analytics gathered in-game, from bug/tech support forums, market and competing game research, and their own design ideas. Those forums are for players to talk to each other and get into pointless arguments.

You want to know if it was intended or not, you get an official response from the Bug Report forums or wait for a hotfix, or Ghostcrawler to reply, or just wait it out. Or cancel your subs, but don't expect a couple hundred accounts lost to affect the decision either way, we amount to almost nothing compared to 8+ million subscriptions.

[Ualaa]

Well, if this is intended.. I won't be back to Warcraft.
If it is reverted, I'll eventually get the itch.

[Mosg2]

I just got off the phone with Blizzard tech support. She informed me that it was an intended change and they were briefed about it before they came on shift today.

[Owltoid]

I just got off the phone with Blizzard tech support. She informed me that it was an intended change and they were briefed about it before they came on shift today.

The death of an era (if true). Oh well, lots of RL shiat to focus on.

[Ualaa]

Shitty...

We've put a fair bit of time into this game, over the years.
Anyone with a PvP focus, isn't going to be having fun anymore.

I don't have much personal interest in PvE.
But even if I did... I'd be hesitant to put a lot of effort in, as this is indicative of the direction Blizzard seems to be moving in, in regards to boxing in their game.

Time to look at other games, I suppose.

Or if someone wants to break the computer gaming habit...
This is a golden opportunity.

[daanji]

Wow...I suspected this might happen after they tried to kill queue and blocked the join battle ground function. I just didn't think it would happen so soon. Well, this makes we glad I canceled in January.

Has anyone tried arenas, rates, and skirmishes?How about winter grasp and top bar ad?

Is it broken in raids, dungeons, or scenarios?

[Baltyre]

If it's not intended to target boxer, maybe we can suggest to allow /follow beetweens toons on the same battlenet, but since they officialy don't support boxing, i don't think we have a chance.

[Narij]

I don't really mind that they changed their opinion, but this feels like a cover of darkness kinda thing. I didn't like the first response, but at least it was clear.

[HPAVC]

They should have put it in the patch notes frankly, if they had a briefing on the damn change with support.

Also, those blue posts with their social commentary, what a bunch of trolls. Locked the thread you modified like a coward indeed.

[Ticks]

I think it's over. Ellay is gonna be bummed.

[Shodokan]

And I was just looking forward to coming back to the game... FUCK.

Guess all its good for now is power leveling my toons to push glad in 3's >_>

[Fat Tire]

I think it's over. Lax is gonna be bummed.

Fixed. I mean really, if I was losing a large part of my business with no warning I would be totally bummed.

[sethlan]

I also agree, they still gonna have BOT's running around, but no more multiboxers in Battle grounds! I'm extremely pissed! my 10x locks reached level 52! and now this crap. :(

What we should do now: DESTROY TOWNS and burn everything to the ground, and not let anyone to level! I wont cancel WoW yet! i have 3 weeks left.

Maybe blizz change this, which i doubt! they knew what they did. They may act dumb--

>takes Conan sword out, and giggling, (I'm gonna be your worst nightmare in open PvP World, good luck leveling)

[Shodokan]

Broken in arenas as well

Peace.

[Fat Tire]

Broken in arenas as well

Peace.

Fuck me - I'm out then.

[MiRai]

Broken in arenas as well

Peace.
Well, I'd say that verifies that the change isn't aimed at battleground bots.

[Shodokan]

Well, I'd say that verifies that the change isn't aimed at battleground bots.

Yep, back to league of legends.

[pinotnoir]

We are a very small part of the community. My guess would be most of us are between 30-50 years old. I bet they were tired of hearing people complain about us and finally decided to say fuck it. I have two 5 man teams almost to level 87. Guess I will hold off leveling a few days to see how this turns out. Just canceled my accounts too. They expire on the 14th.

[HPAVC]

I can theorize a rationalization for the zoned PvP / battlegrounds, some sort of warped sense of the appearance of an unfair advantage.

But now I am concerned on how long follow lasts at all. I don't see how PvE hurts anyone, grinding away in some dungeon by yourself with stupid specs and gimped DPS.

[Owltoid]

This thread may be the best hope to getting /follow back:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087879808

Big props to the blind dude and his friend, too.

[Shodokan]

This thread may be the best hope to getting /follow back:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087879808

Big props to the blind dude and his friend, too.

Too many people will just say that getting rid of scum multiboxers is worth inconveniencing the few blind players.

[Owltoid]

Too many people will just say that getting rid of scum multiboxers is worth inconveniencing the few blind players.

Don't underestimate the need for the largest MMO to be politically correct.

[Shodokan]

Don't underestimate the need for the largest MMO to be politically correct.

95% chance this stays.

[F9thRet]

whelp back to EQ2 , Rifts or SWTOR for me.

[Chivalrous]

I just tweeted all the CMs and Ghostcrawler I hope they respond... I think if they make this change ill just cancel, it seems aimed specifically at multiboxers. I know bots don't use follow, I work with a guy who uses one in BGs and to gather and he had told me it just runs him around and randomly attacks people.

[Wombat]

So what is another game that is boxer friendly? I've just started and im wondering if its worth continuing even with a PVE focus. My crystal ball predicts /follow being removed for world, dungeons and raids as well.

Even your cheapest bot now uses mesh terrain to navigate areas. They dont use follow anymore.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I suggested allowing "que as a raid" (allowing autofollow) and "que as an individual" (not allow autofollow) and only pair against others choosing similar for battlegrounds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087999844#1

[pinotnoir]

I so want to tell all the tear drinkers on the wow forums I have been drinking their tears since the burning crusade.

[Owltoid]

If Blizz truly wanted boxing dead, why not go the GW2 route? Sure, some hardware boxers would stay, but that's a small minority of a small minority. While I'm sure Blizz knew this would break boxing in BGs, I'm guessing they did this to help (ineffectively) curb botting. If boxing wasn't the primary reason for the change, and it's ineffective at stopping any bots, and it impacts blind players, there is a chance they reverse the change.

[Mickthathick]

Damn, commiserations to all the PVP multi-boxers out there. I can't really share your pain as I only dual-box pve, but I wonder how long until they break /follow in LFR, dungeons and the world itself?

Multi-boxing adds enough complexity to this game to make it interesting for me, at it's core WoW is very simple to master and I would of quit long ago if it wasn't for boxing.

Bastards, I was enjoying the game again too! Oh well, everything has an ending I guess.

[MiRai]

I suggested allowing "que as a raid" (allowing autofollow) and "que as an individual" (not allow autofollow) and only pair against others choosing similar for battlegrounds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087999844#1
When you start out your post with "As a 27 boxer..." you're just asking for trolls in the General Discussion forum. ;)

[smalltanker]

Just canceled most of my team as all I do is PVP (not very well but I keep trying in Arena, BGs, and was hoping to try it in RBGs). Posted this on my cancellation requests:

"The removal of the /follow command prohibits me from multi-boxxing in BGs, and Arenas. I work shift so impossible to find stable players for teams to capping on my six to seven accounts."

GG Blizzard.

[F9thRet]

I just thought of something, I wonder how this will influence World PVP.

It might be interesting to see a few hundred of us boxers all take over every town, until we get /follow added back in. Have to get that honor somehow. A concentrated effort like that may just make them change their mind, and actually want us isolated in a bg or dungeon.

Stephen

[Mickthathick]

I just thought of something, I wonder how this will influence World PVP.

It might be interesting to see a few hundred of us boxers all take over every town, until we get /follow added back in. Have to get that honor somehow. A concentrated effort like that may just make them change their mind, and actually want us isolated in a bg or dungeon.

Stephen

Actually, you'd just get perma-banned for "disrupting the game for other players" as per what happened to Swifty when he broke a server while hosting an in-game event.

[Owltoid]

I'm tempted to just abuse the report AFK feature until banned. But I won't. No reason to load up WoW unless this is changed.

[Chivalrous]

This post on mmo-champion says instances also. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1271620-Follow-function-quot-broken-quot-in-5-2?p=20431220 anyone test this ?

[CMKCot]

/follow works in instances, haven't tested in LFR.

[F9thRet]

Actually, you'd just get perma-banned for "disrupting the game for other players" as per what happened to Swifty when he broke a server while hosting an in-game event.

That's a good point. I always forget about Swifty. I guess I was just fawing back to the old days when we could pull quest givers and hold them ransom.

Stephen

[crowdx]

This post on mmo-champion says instances also. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1271620-Follow-function-quot-broken-quot-in-5-2?p=20431220 anyone test this ?

Follow still works in dungeons, just tested in SSB and it is working fine

[Chivalrous]

If its broken in LFR I'm 100% done. Just considering it right now.

[Mokoi]

bots don't even follow anymore... what the hell is wrong with them..

[Shodokan]

bots don't even follow anymore... what the hell is wrong with them..

Bots ALL use profiles and not /follow

Is it so hard to not use actual names of bots?
-MiRai

[JohnGabriel]

bots don't even follow anymore... what the hell is wrong with them..

I am not so sure about that. Bots were getting stopped, often and quickly, so they had to change. It seems the best thing to do is copy what boxers do and try to hide under blizzards radar.

Instead of a bot controlling a character they can send IsBoxer like commands to follow, assist, cast, etc. Hiding their botting somewhat.

[CMKCot]

the fun thing is that botters are not really affected by this, follow bots are rarely used now days, botters use some simple pathing script, so this change is clearly targeted. i find it beyond stupid really.

anyway, if you want to gear up the toons, just join a bg and spam heals or something. so long as you are in the pc playing, you are not required to "play".

[sethlan]

I say, It could be worse, they could disable auto follow completely! :() - instances are fine, Confirmed by me. just did TK to see if that ugly mount drops. after hunting for several months.

[Chivalrous]

Can anyone try LFR? I can't login tonight but my sub is renewing on the 7th.

[widdle]

I only multibox bgs so my time multiboxing is over. Spewing i just renewed isboxer 2 days ago.

[washtana]

Can anyone try LFR? I can't login tonight but my sub is renewing on the 7th. Follow in LFR is working.

[Palee]

Wow, the end of an era indeed... Well my friends, I guess this is it. The death of World of Warcraft as far as I'm concerned.

[Chivalrous]

Thanks Washtana.. I have to consider now.. But I bet they might break follow in LFR eventually , lots of players just set someone on follow and get free loot.. :( I'm really bummed.

[flux1]

Wow, I was thinking of coming back on the recommendation of some friends to try 3 boxing, but not now. I never did PVP much, but I still liked doing an occasional battleground for fun. Actively breaking this, even if I never did it much, is a sign to stay away as they don't want boxers around.

Time to move on to other games then.

[sdleelee83]

Just read this while at work... Maybe its time to look for something else to play... Pending a blue post on this issue.

P.s. does mirai get a prize for starting what may well be the most expensive post on these forums in income lost by blizzard? ;D

[Invisahealz]

Just resubbed my 25 accounts yesterday :(

[MadMilitia]

Probably heard it before but Blizzard will rue the day they put these clowns in charge of design. I'm frankly surprised anyone still subbed the game with all the horrid ground collects and the endless stream of dailies gating PvE progress. They want this game to appeal to the facebook crowd.

Hit them right where it hurts fellas. Easy for me to say I guess. I've been fully canceled for a while now.

[jebnarf]

Okay pause, is there a way we could control our guys in pvp without using /follow?
Surely we could come up with something that might work even better. Blizzard hasn't come out and said multiboxing is now against the rules or anything... Maybe we could still do it despite this if we get creative.

Remember before we had these programs? We thought of new things before, why not try again?

[MadMilitia]

Okay pause, is there a way we could control our guys in pvp without using /follow?
Surely we could come up with something that might work even better. Blizzard hasn't come out and said multiboxing is now against the rules or anything... Maybe we could still do it despite this if we get creative.

Remember before we had these programs? We thought of new things before, why not try again?


Maybe worth it to check IWT. Melee teams may not be screwed. Everyone else is though. Well... shit. Everyone actually is screwed. You need /follow for more than just following. Recovering from a fear bomb for example.

[flux1]

Maybe worth it to check IWT. Melee teams may not be screwed. Everyone else is though. Well... shit. Everyone actually is screwed. You need /follow for more than just following. Recovering from a fear bomb for example.

You might be able to set up something using multi-person mounts for movement, but then you are limited to 3 people unless you want to keep watching where the other toons are going.

Still, it is obvious they knew what effect this would happen when they did it, thus why it is only in battlegrounds and arenas. So even if another method is discovered, they could just break it also.

[Owltoid]

Okay pause, is there a way we could control our guys in pvp without using /follow?
Surely we could come up with something that might work even better. Blizzard hasn't come out and said multiboxing is now against the rules or anything... Maybe we could still do it despite this if we get creative.

Remember before we had these programs? We thought of new things before, why not try again?

Most multiboxers knew the best way to stop multiboxing is to simply remove the follow command. You cannot effectively PvP without it.

[smalltanker]

Yeah that was the first thing I posted earlier. Problem is when you want to move lond distance or around complicated spaces... example: you start out in WSG flag room, you move towards gate, turn towards it line up, move out it, move through other gate, mount... run at an angle to GY, drop down, head towards center or the tunnel/ramp entrance... somewhere in the middle you can start using IWT or CTM for distance travel if on broad cast...

[jebnarf]

Click to move maybe...? Something fancy could be done with it.

Sorry i just don't want to give up so easily.

Perhaps if we combined IWT and CTM in a unique new way.

Are there any items we could place down in front of us then interact with? Also the multiperson mount idea might work for 3 person.

[Ualaa]

If this change stays... what games are people going to try boxing in?

I was looking at the Free to Play, Everquest I for a while.
Didn't actually play the game, beyond logging three accounts in to see what I had.
From perusing the SOE forums, it looks like they're boxer friendly to a degree... but nothing like battlegrounds.

There's LotRO, Rift, maybe other games.
Haven't really looked at the others much.

[jebnarf]

I found something. Mount traveler's tundra mammoth on main, anything on alts. Target the vendor and use IWT across toons.
If you keep moving they will follow your main like normal in mounted zones.

[sdleelee83]

I found something. Mount traveler's tundra mammoth on main, anything on alts. Target the vendor and use IWT across toons.
If you keep moving they will follow your main like normal in mounted zones.

This is pretty impressive. Only way to break this would be to make the vendors non interactive. O_o

[jebnarf]

This is pretty impressive.
Thank you :]

[blahbalah]

871He says its not intentional...

[tldr]

I popped in to whine about the glitches I've encountered today. They seem pretty insignificant next to the BG follow issue. That really sucks. I'd hate to see such a thing completely evaporate the multiboxing community.

[smalltanker]

Any thing on the twitter feed or another link to it?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

871He says its not intentional...

That blue said /follow is not required to multibox. Uh, what?

[SuperMiguel]

Wonder if i can get my money back from blizzard, im still within the 30 days of purchasing 5 new accounts

[daanji]

If you paid with a credit card you could always try a charge back if they don't play ball.

[F9thRet]

I may try a little experiment tonight, using a hot key to set screen , and then using click to move. I still don't like the idea though, as it is one more key click I didn't want to do LOL.

Ok, so I'm lazy.

5 symptoms of Stephen Being Lazy.

1.

[F9thRet]

That blue said /follow is not required to multibox. Uh, what?

Yeah, that is just insane. I did a face palm when I read that also. It makes me wonder, if they will allow a more liberal use of mouse broadcasters.

[Quiding]

Worst news ever....

[Baltyre]

I don't have an us account so i can post, can someone post this 2 suggestions :
1- Allow follow beetween toons on the same battlenet (unlikely)
2- Allow follow, but when used, disable honnor gain for the BG (Yeah, it sucks, but at least we still can do bg, and potentials bots have no interest to use follow)

[Baltyre]

Btw, can we list all trickets/items that spawn a pnj that toons can interact with ?
Maybe, there is some usefull ability we can use ?

Tundra Mammoth is account wide ?

[Jafula]

They are obviously not interested in discussing this change, if they were, they would have noted it in the patch notes and it would have been like this in the PTR.

IMHO it is really poor of Blizzard to make such a significant change with no notice. Follow has been an integral part of the game since release. (If they do this for PVE, I'm out.)

[Wombat]

Maybe this is blizzards response to the bot detection system going haywire and suspending multiboxers, by getting rid of multiboxers out of BGs altogether. Seems the usual easy/lazy route Blizzard love taking when trying to solve an issue.

If this is really about getting bots out of BGs then it won't be long before they turn their attention to PVE. As some single toon players have asked in the forums"Why do we need /follow anyway?"

[Noxdiebox]

...I hope they change it again

[Baltyre]

Follow is broken on Tol Barad too ?

[Vardion]

Well, all this is pretty disappointing. I have reactivated my accounts yesterday to be prepared for the patch today. Since I wanted to do some pvp this season I don't really see any use in those accounts now.

I called Blizz support and told them that I don't need my accounts if I can't play them in battlegrounds. The lady on the phone was very friendly and said that they would refund the money for the subscriptions within two weeks. So...if anybody else has just reactivated there is a high chance that you will at least get your money back.

[JohnGabriel]

Well I don't PvP, but seems to me the solution might be just park in the flag room and kill everyone that comes in. No need to follow anywhere.

But that might piss everyone else off enough they have to change things again.

[valkry]

This breakign doesn't stop you from joining BGs though, tempted to just join BGs and forward/strafe to move and get owned and make my team lose... EVERY game.

Apart from that, quitting mboxing wow now, 9 subs lost Blizz

[Teslah]

Although I never was into PvP it won't be long before they make this change on the PvE side. The fact they did not mention it means they are not very worried about the consequences. Based on the size of WoW I am sure they have people on this site daily reading up on multiboxing and seeing the posts.

That said, there is probabaly a very small window where Blizz will wait to see what happens with this. For those who want to make an attempt at getting some sort of follow back in the PvP game I would suggest a focused, rational and calm effort to get it done.

Here are some ideas.

1. Make follow a pay service. Might not be appealing to many, but it would limit the bots doing it.

2. Qualify the boxers. Just like airport screening, look at the accounts, call the users and come up with a method to determine if they are bots or gold sellers, then leave the legit ones.

3. Limit follow to 4 characters or a full group of 5.

4. Make separate BGs and Arenas where follow is still active and give people the choice to join them or not.

5. Put some type of captcha on each screen that needs to be input every few minutes to assure no afk players.

There must be other ideas. I would be interested if Lax knows how many WoW ISBoxer accounts there are? Not an exact number, just a general idea. Are there 1,000 boxers or 10,000? If we each have an average of 5 (10 in my case) accounts how much money lost is that for Blizz? Is it really significant? Or a loss they are willing to take to get rid of boxing?

The real issue here is the entire multiboxing universe. WoW has always allowed it even though other games made it clear they did not want it. WoW has pretty much been the leader and company to follow. If they ban follow all others will too. There will be no reason to do it anymore now that WoW has gotten rid of it. All other games will follow soon and the ones who don't already allow it will start pushing it on the entire gaming community and gaming companies.

Anyway, there is a small window here to try to come up with a compromise. It should be a united, calm and professional effort. Otherwise it will just go away in a few weeks and nothing will be done.

Good luck to the PvP players. I know you put a heck of a lot of time in perfecting your teams.

[JohnGabriel]

Your ideas assume they removed follow to stop botters, but they (probably) didn't, they (probably) removed it to stop boxers in BGs. Too many people complaining about it.

[Baltyre]

6 - Allow follow beetween char using the same battlenet
7 - Allow follow in BG, but when we use it, we got no honor (so no interest for bots)

I think the last solution is the best. We wont get honnor and that sucks but still can play BG.

[F9thRet]

Well I don't PvP, but seems to me the solution might be just park in the flag room and kill everyone that comes in. No need to follow anywhere.

But that might piss everyone else off enough they have to change things again.

I had thought about that myself. Or going off an idea I had earlier, us having a huge sit in at the two main towns. Maybe some civil disobedience or the like.

Stephen

[Baltyre]

Cross realm protest event ? :p
That could be a interesting idea.

[Chivalrous]

They didn't break follow to stop botters, they broke it to break multiboxing BGs. How do I know? I called up my buddy and asked him if his bot was still working in BGs after 5.2--he called me back an hour later and said yes, it was. He couldn't tell the difference.

[Chivalrous]

I guess I really don't Zenga, because it seems obvious to me that it must be the reason--perhaps going after bots now that they don't have to distinguish them from boxers so often, or as a general staging point for more aggressive tracking, but still they knew it would severely limit boxing.

[Ellay]

Sorry everyone for the frustration :( I was /forcequitted 3 weeks ago due to having a baby. This business decision is quite bold. Especially after having supported us for so many years. Hell recruit a friend was basically inviting you to multibox when it was first introduced.
There are many other options out there, and more so that are multiboxing friendly.
I've been dabbing in a bit of Everquest 2 because of the free to play model I don't feel bad if I only get to log on once a week. Multiboxing in it is extremely user friendly. Slap your characters on follow and target your main and they assist with any further macro's.
Also been meaning to try out Star Wars as they are releasing more new content and is basically an updated WoW gameplay/engine from what I can tell. It does offer a PvP aspect too that has "something" there.

Multiboxing will thrive as a gameplay style I don't doubt that. They'll have this change on record if they do uphold it to show bad business decisions in the future. The fact their sub numbers will take a visible hit will speak volumes to the people who do actually make decisions.

My suggestion is to cancel your account, even if you do plan on continuing to play. Just re-sub for another month afterwards and cancel it again. You still get the time you paid for.
But in the notes type out exactly why you are quitting and copy/paste that onto each of your cancelled accounts. This will get the message across. Speak with your wallet, I guarantee you it has a larger effect than the forum.

[Lyonheart]

i paid 10 accounts with game cards TWO F'n DAYS AGO!!! I have not PvP much at all yet.. but i have PvEd so much i was more then ready to start the PvP grind ( just BGs..no arenas ) I bought the time cards from Bliz store.. GRRrRrRRR!!!

[F9thRet]

Sorry everyone for the frustration :( I was /forcequitted 3 weeks ago due to having a baby. This business decision is quite bold. Especially after having supported us for so many years. Hell recruit a friend was basically inviting you to multibox when it was first introduced.
There are many other options out there, and more so that are multiboxing friendly.
I've been dabbing in a bit of Everquest 2 because of the free to play model I don't feel bad if I only get to log on once a week. Multiboxing in it is extremely user friendly. Slap your characters on follow and target your main and they assist with any further macro's.
Also been meaning to try out Star Wars as they are releasing more new content and is basically an updated WoW gameplay/engine from what I can tell. It does offer a PvP aspect too that has "something" there.

Multiboxing will thrive as a gameplay style I don't doubt that. They'll have this change on record if they do uphold it to show bad business decisions in the future. The fact their sub numbers will take a visible hit will speak volumes to the people who do actually make decisions.

My suggestion is to cancel your account, even if you do plan on continuing to play. Just re-sub for another month afterwards and cancel it again. You still get the time you paid for.
But in the notes type out exactly why you are quitting and copy/paste that onto each of your cancelled accounts. This will get the message across. Speak with your wallet, I guarantee you it has a larger effect than the forum.

First off, You bring the best news I've heard in this thread. Congrats on being a mother. I wish nothing but the very best for you and yours.

I've had that station access account for years now, and have dabbled with EQ2 myself, esp. the lat few months. I don't know if this will help, but I did find out, I got a real nice discount when I grabbed both expansions a few months back. Like total of 60 bucks versus the 80 bucks. But even then, you don't have to have them, until end game. EQ2 is a very valid option for us, and given from my understanding, it would still allow us to support Lax, it may be a very good option, should some of you choose to go that way.

Anyways, Grats again, I bet you are so proud, and rightly so right now. Anytime one of us creates a future boxer is a day to be celebrated!

Stephen

[zenga]

I was /forcequitted 3 weeks ago due to having a baby.

First off, You bring the best news I've heard in this thread. Congrats on being a mother.

I think ellay has mixed feelings now :d

[F9thRet]

LOL, I figured that would come in about two years. LOL. I know my youngest Grandson gives my son and his wife fits. Oh wait, I must have missed that. All this time, I thought Ellay was a woman. If I was in error, my deepest apoligies, and Please replace Mother with Father.

Stephen

[Feehza]

The legendary allmighty mother of multiboxing :P

[Oatboat]

Congrats Mommy! Hah! :) .. but in all seriousness Congrats on your kid ;) .... I think this is just a bump in the road. They've done some drastic things in the past that made us all up in arms for a few days and we've worked around them. Although this is a pretty BIG bump in the road this time.

[sethlan]

This is actually good point I'm going to cancel all my accounts today and copy paste why I quit also I will make a ticket and copy and paste for the heck of it

[Narij]

My accounts died last week, I fingered I'd reactive them in a month and enjoy the benefits of 5.2, that clearly won't be the case. Canceled my main account, even though I can still enjoy the single player aspect, this whole business has soured on me and I'm asking myself, "why bother?"

At this point even a well thought out response might be too late, I needed to see that on Monday.

Congratulations on the baby, it sounds like you both are in good health.

[moosejaw]

I don't pvp but I am canceling out of solidarity for those that do. This is a BS move on blizzards part. I don't have fun playing anymore. If I am boxing dailies, I get hate. If I am idle on the terrace, I get hate. Now blizzard is kowtowing to the haters.
PvP boxing is like Austria and Austria was just annexed. PvE boxing is like Poland and I expect it to be in the cross hairs very soon.

[SuperMiguel]

Was bored, and just gave them a call and was told that this update was to stop multiboxer/boters since they had an advantage over other players.

[crowdx]

I have never pvp'ed but this change does concern me that they may just remove follow from the game, period. I agree with a lot of the posters here that the move was very sneaky.
As to folk protesting, I think that only serves to give boxing a bad name and it will not have any effect on blizzard, they know the numbers and made a decision based on the loss of players they would take based on this move.
Afterall it is about the bottom line and keeping the majority of their playerbase happy, not the minority, which boxers are.

[Chivalrous]

Yeah I'm done too. I just built that computer for boxing so now need to find something to tax it properly.

[crowdx]

Yeah I'm done too. I just built that computer for boxing so now need to find something to tax it properly.

I really think you will like Rift, I loved it but when i played it, the level cap was 50 and I just got a little burnt out with it, with the new expansion I am considering going back to it. The graphics will tax your nice new machine ;)

[Fat Tire]

I am pretty disappointed they made this change after 8 years. In the cancellation of my accounts I made sure to put that this "business" decision has sullied me on any future products that blizzard may release.

[Chivalrous]

I really think you will like Rift, I loved it but when i played it, the level cap was 50 and I just got a little burnt out with it, with the new expansion I am considering going back to it. The graphics will tax your nice new machine ;)

Thanks! I will look into it. Was watching some gw2 videos also. I want to play HoTS, but don't want to give blizzard money right now.

[moog]

Was watching some gw2 videos also.

Just in case you were referring to GW2 as a possible MB game, you will need to rethink that... http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49017-GW2-Anet-s-Official-Stance-on-Multiboxing-Updated
(http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/49017-GW2-Anet-s-Official-Stance-on-Multiboxing-Updated)
Blizztard's move is very, very dull.
No warning - so tough luck, I guess, if you've subbed multiple accounts for a year.

This, on top of how poor Diablo3 was - how many people are going to touch Blizztard's next game?

[valkry]

Give TERA a go guys, it's free to play, and even though last time i played it there wasnt much of bgs or raids, it was great graphics, combat system is AWESOME and a great game to whittle away some hours on. Not mboxer friendly though.

[Meeo]

I feel for the others who just recently paid for something in relation to the WoW. I've been away for quite sometime and was going to come back, post-having a newborn several months ago, i have time again.

But this just bites the cake for me. I was going to work on pvp like everyone else.

So i went back to EVE and Rift. I will be multi-boxing Rift.

(Removed duplicate GW2 Updated news)

[Chivalrous]

Nah I was looking at GW2 as a solo endeavor... But, the problem I have is once you multi-box I think playing solo is never as good again. Multiboxing requires much more out of you, and feels much more rewarding.

[pinotnoir]

This is actually good point I'm going to cancel all my accounts today and copy paste why I quit also I will make a ticket and copy and paste for the heck of it

I did that yesterday. And specified the reason on all accounts.

[MadMilitia]

Give TERA a go guys, it's free to play, and even though last time i played it there wasnt much of bgs or raids, it was great graphics, combat system is AWESOME and a great game to whittle away some hours on. Not mboxer friendly though.


I'm probably going to disappear into the world of Tera real soon here. We'll see how it goes.

[pinotnoir]

I am seriously considering spending my last game time joining bg's all day just to get owned while I sit there as a protest. Let all these cry babies see what it's like to lose every bg I join.

[Khatovar]

Well I'm not generally the rage-quitting type, but this ticked me off after the other recent "oops, sorry multiboxers *snicker*" situations. I had already canceled most of my accounts a week or two ago, and I don't PvP at all, but I sent in a ticket last night telling them where their head is. I got a "working as intended" response and reopened the ticket telling them to cancel my annual pass and refund the other account that just renewed so I can go give my money to Sony. Let's see how that goes.

[Lyonheart]

Im not sure where to go... EQ1..EQ2..or SWtOR are the ones I am debating..but what sucks is i have 30 day ( 28 left ) game cards on all my accounts lol.. fuckers!

[livetolift]

I wasnt even aware of this...last night i joined a bg and then took an arrow to the knee....now i know why. Guess i am gonna be riding my druid now :p

[Lyonheart]

I wasnt even aware of this...last night i joined a bg and then took an arrow to the knee....now i know why. Guess i am gonna be riding my druid now :p

Yea.. this wont be bad for two boxers.. lots of two person mounts, even 3. But 5 or more will suck. Its not even about IF you can still box in BGs still for me.. it just about the un announced change that contradicts their stance on PvP+ Multiboxing historically that pisses me off.

[Teslah]

I used game cards this last time around, and all 10 accounts expire on March 10th, which is only a few days from now. I can't cancel anything since there is no subscription. I'll have to do something on each account to let them know why I won't be renewing. Anyone know where to give feedback for each account? I think we'll have the most impact if we do it on each account so they see that 1 of us is actually 10 paying subs, 10 individuals are actually 100 paying accounts and so on.

I still think its 50/50 they turn it back on. It's hard to believe they would just do it knowing how many people multibox and have been doing it loyally for years. I wonder if they had another objective in mind. To see how many true botters and AFK followers it affected, then decide what to do from there.

[SaraiE]

This sucks, and I just finished lvling my five enhancement shammies. Well, I cancelled and i copied and pasted, " /follow not available in BGs, bye!" in all five accounts.
Luckily, my accounts will expire on March 10th, not too bad...sorry to those that re-newed recently....
SaraiE

[Khatovar]

Anyone know where to give feedback for each account? I think we'll have the most impact if we do it on each account so they see that 1 of us is actually 10 paying subs, 10 individuals are actually 100 paying accounts and so on..

They can already see your accounts, spamming them will only get your tickets closed at best and make us look like jerks trying to flood the ticket system in protest.

[Teslah]

I'm no going to protest. It really isn't that major to me to be honest. Writing a nice letter explaining why I won't be renewing isn't exactly raging at them to change it or else. That's not me.

[moosejaw]

I have at least 6 EQ1 accounts and 6 eq2 accounts. I am considering going back to one of them or just playing the snot out of all the single player games I have accumulated over the past year and a half. Decisions, decisions. :)

[ebony]

asking for a refund on my accounts i just signed up for as they did not say this before like they always said they would. and not playing anymore

Welcome to the World of Life

been fun all will miss you all lots


/love

[SuperMiguel]

I really think you will like Rift, I loved it but when i played it, the level cap was 50 and I just got a little burnt out with it, with the new expansion I am considering going back to it. The graphics will tax your nice new machine ;)

Rift graphics better than WoW graphics?

[Lyonheart]

I just found an account of mine that was still on my credit card.. i canceled it, glad i could, so i could give a reason.. cant do that with game time subs ( other than putting in a ticket )

[Sam DeathWalker]

There seems to be a lot of conclusion that this was done against boxers, that is very far from clear.



GW2 came out against boxers and clearly stated so, there is no reason that if Blizz in fact did not want boxers in BG's they would come out and flat say so. This is not the first time that changes were not posted in the patch notes or in advance.

We know for a fact they are trying to get botters out of BG's. The sad fact is there is nothing to be done about it from a hardware/software standpoint. Bots read position and other data from where wow stores it in ram locations and act upon that data, good luck doing anything about that.

It is very possible that someone figured that by ridding auto follow in BGs they would be rid of bots.

If they wanted to be rid of Boxers they would have eliminated follow everywhere. You dont think they get complaints about prepared attacking stormwind or his activities in Wintergrasp.


Its a bit soon to quit, lets get some official stance from Blizzard first.

I am sure there are some internal debates going on at this time. And whoever oked the policy is no doubt having 2nd thoughts.

Its fine to leave so you can write a ticket but I dont think investing a lot of money or time in another game is wise yet.

Besides you can get pvp gear from the world bosses if its like it was with sha of anger.

AV is my favorite thing to do in WoW but Horde losing 9 out of 10 games cause we going up against premades was getting old as well.


Also you will note that we have heard nothing from Lax, he also is taking a wait and see attitude. Looks like Tim is on the wow forums though .... I best get over there.








Maybe someone could tell me what the goal of botters is? If they are selling toons then if blizzard started selling toons it would take away the incentive for them. Obviously botters cannot brag about how good they are or how many people they faceroll so whats their incentive?



This is interesting:

They did not target boxers, follow was creating lag.

[Fat Tire]

Maybe someone could tell me what the goal of botters is? If they are selling toons then if blizzard started selling toons it would take away the incentive for them. Obviously botters cannot brag about how good they are or how many people they faceroll so whats their incentive?

$$$ $$$ $$

They sell the gold. Usually if they cant move the gold themselves they sell it to gold selling companies. The bots that farm honor are just people who dont want to do the honor gear grind.

[moog]

I used game cards this last time around, and all 10 accounts expire on March 10th, which is only a few days from now. I can't cancel anything since there is no subscription.
I had the same issue 18 months ago when I quit WoW over piss-poor Customer Service.
I had been using time cards, had a couple of weeks to go, so went into account management and activated a credit card subscription (as it wouldn't be billed until the time cards expired) then cancelled the subs in order to submit my "why have you quit" reason x 5.

[valkry]

I wonder if /follow will be available in Titan MMO?

[Sam DeathWalker]

As to other games, what would I gain going back to EQ1?

I am on a pvp server, as I was in eq1.

EQ1 didnt even have "battle grounds", all pvp was world pvp.

Is there another game with world pvp and battle ground pvp?

[Lyonheart]

As to other games, what would I gain going back to EQ1?

I am on a pvp server, as I was in eq1.

EQ1 didnt even have "battle grounds", all pvp was world pvp.

Is there another game with world pvp and battle ground pvp?

Rift..old DAoC...SWtOR...Warhammer..not sure about others

[Oatboat]

I wish they would have kept improving DAOC... the pvp in it was insane and i loved it.

[Lyonheart]

I wish they would have kept improving DAOC... the pvp in it was insane and i loved it.

Me too.. i have not enjoyed any other PvP more. I was so exited for Warhammer Online..but it failed to capture DAoCs RvR/PvP Magic.

[jebnarf]

I found something that might work for us! Posted a thread about it in this forum, IWT will be our salvation.
Come join the thread and brainstorm with me! We can do this guys.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

Well I don't pvp but I am afraid that the /follow ban will soon spill over into the PVE area of the game. I am seriously thinking about canceling my 6 accounts. I am also thinking about moving on to EVE online but not MB. I know eve is supposed to be tough to learn but is it worth it?

[SoulSeekerUSA]

I found something that might work for us! Posted a thread about it in this forum, IWT will be our salvation.
Come join the thread and brainstorm with me! We can do this guys.

Unless they roll back the /follow ban its over for MB in PVP BG's. /follow is just to much of a silver bullet to make any other way worth it. /follow ban = the end to all MB in wow. It is sad because I love wow and have been playing since vanilla and hate to leave but Blizzard has changed since Activision took over and its just getting worse, look at DIII and how they took a great franchise and destroyed it overnight and then they tell us "Aren't You Thankful?"

[Wait_what]

Any suggested free to play MMO's that allow multi boxing? Cause I've just canceled my wow and everything, might go back if they roll back this change.

[Deathbeast]

I am very upset with this change been boxing 3 frost dk's for months now and all I do is pvp, just got my 4th account for a holy pali and now I am going to be cancelling all 3 of my boxing accounts and just leaving my main at this stage - enjoyed it so much.

[Oldboxer]

I just did the chat thing with tech support. He confirmed that was intentional, it's not a bug. He said the support people were told about it last minute, given no reason. He said it might not be aimed at multiboxers, he thought it might be people who just do follow in BG's to avoid being reported afk. He suggested I use the in game suggestions to let the developers know my concerns. I said I'm sure the developers thought of it beforehand. I said that I didn't mind so much that they did it, they make the rules, but the way they did it was cheap. I've played for 7 years and I get treated like this. He said "Well have a great day." So I'll cancel my accounts, I've downloaded Eve and I'll see what that's about. If that doesn't work out, something else will.

[heyaz]

I just loaded Linux into VMWare 9 and gave it 60GB RAM and 12 CPUs so I can feel better about this ridiculous rig I just built :(

After this I'm going to run cudahashcat against a million MD5 hashes of 20 character long passwords. This GTX 680 is going to be working very hard for the next trillion years or so.

[luxlunae]

My wow accounts have all been expired for about a month now, I was just considering reupping when I saw the thing about collection quests getting better. With CRZ now they are making the only way to level a non-traditional team by sitting in a LFD queue for ages waiting for a tank. How fun.

I got five lotro accounts a while ago to try out boxing in that game but then was annoyed that the class I wanted to play was one of the restricted ones (ruke-keeper? or lore master. one of those two), maybe I should consider trying again with base classes and just see how it goes.

Only problem is that after rift and tera, warhammer and lotro just look bad.



Heyaz bitcoins are up to 45 dollars today, maybe you want to just fire up a mining program?

[Fusionsouth]

Soo... If follow doesn't work in BGs AND arenas then it seems like it is intentionally to stop multiboxers in PVP....

I think that Blizzard has the right, and maybe even the responsability, to do what they think is in the best interest of their game. But the way they are handleing this is terrible. Not putting the change in the patch notes and not putting it on the PTR when they clearly intended to do this is a cowardly move. IMO they knew that they would draw fire for this, and they didn't want all the hype of their new patch clouded with people arguing about multiboxing.

When WOW came out Blizzard seemed to me like a fairly successful company full of people who just wanted to make a great game. They cared about their fans and their product. Now they allow paid server transfers, paid name/race/character changes, they let you buy vanity items, ect. Somehow they have turned into this huge company that seems to be just farming us for money. And they do shadey things like intentionally break an entire style of gameplay that they have allowed for years without any warning.

That is the real problem I have with this. Yes, I am upset that I can't do BGs like I have enjoyed for years. But I am more upset that they just did this with no heads-up, and still no official response... Even if we are a small community, we are big enough that they made this change, and big enough that they prepared their phone jockies to take our calls... Springing this on us, and they ignoring us is just classless...


GRRR


I have to decide what I am going to do now. I have been farming Ulduar and ICC to make the legendary weapons. I am still probably 3 months away. But I want to show Blizz my dissapointment with them by cancelling. I also don't want to reward them by buying the new Starcraft next week. But doing these things would be like me taking poison in order to hurt someone else...

Nothing super valuable to anyone else in this post I guess, just me venting a little.

I have been coming here for 6 years, you guys have been great. I will still be around even if I can't 1 shot flag carriers anymore.

Fusion

[heyaz]

Somehow they have turned into this huge company that seems to be just farming us for money

A for-profit corporation turning a profit and expanding? What is this? Capitalism or something?!

[Wokomehee]

Omg... im so sad ...

[F9thRet]

Rift..old DAoC...SWtOR...Warhammer..not sure about others


I could have sworn I read that Warhammer was closing down all together.

[Narij]

We all feel the same way Fusion. I'm sure most of us will agree that Blizzard has the right to change their game as they see fit, but to spring this on us is just cowardice

[Palee]

If your subs renewed in the last couple of days you should be able to get a refund. I just got a refund for 8 or my 10 accounts. I subbed to try the new patch and this happened...

[sethlan]

let's do this: …..”Regarding the /follow command in PVP/BGs being removed, If you feel that the /follow command should be put back into the whole game then while in game press ESC Menu > Help > Submit Suggestion > Enter Your Suggestion.

let's do this! - I'm going to do this on about 17 accounts.

[sethlan]

^_ actually that's not bad idea, BUT yeah we cant talk about it here, I SAY LETS file the damn suggestion on all our accounts! - LAX should actually do something and email everyone to file suggestion , and I'm pretty sure we can do something about it.

[Deathbeast]

They are giving me a full refund for the account I purchased and upgraded day before 5.2 and the transferred toon and also class and name change. so that is one good thing. So new boxers you can call them and ask for a refund for not mentioning this in patch notes ect as I have done.

[Palee]

I was surprised though that I only had to wait in the queue when I called for about 3 minutes. This means that not that many people are cancelling or asking for refunds. So I think we're screwed. Follow is probably not coming back.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Hey I am starting to think this is not so bad for me.

If prepared leaves cause of this then seems I might have a shot at claiming I am top dog again (like I was in EQ1 in 2008).

I have no idea if prepared has or has not canceled his accounts.

EatCarbs said he is cancelling so the one person who might have overtook me before I overtook Prepared is gone.

Post in technical support are moved back to general:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8155895569


Hey you can use the dark jade focus lens and then send "moveforward" to all account and you will merge towards the target, not sure if you can target a friendly but you can target an oppenet for sure.

[smalltanker]

Yeah... I am downloading rift trial now. /WOW

[Mickthathick]

Is it possible to box Eve? I've played 2 accounts on that game before but it involved a lot of alt-tabbing :(

[Rosebud]

The ignorance on the WoW forums makes my head hurt. Even in EQ I knew what dual-boxing was. How can these kids (and adults) not grasp that it isn't the same as botting?

[sethlan]

Hey I am starting to think this is not so bad for me.

If prepared leave cause of this then seems I might have a shot at claiming I am top dog again (like I was in EQ1 in 2008).

EatCarbs said he is cancelling so the one person who might have overtook me before I overtook Prepared is gone.

Post in technical support are moved back to general:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8155895569

prepared gone? now - ruin guild will get bored at wow.

[luxlunae]

Although this type of suggestion is not allowed on this forum, I say fuck Blizzard and I'm with you!


I think the mods should discuss lifting this prohibition on the forum, in light of current events.

[EaTCarbS]

I think the mods should discuss lifting this prohibition on the forum, in light of current events.

No. That would not accomplish anything good.


EatCarbs said he is cancelling so the one person who might have overtook me before I overtook Prepared is gone.
Wat.

[Owltoid]

No. That would not accomplish anything good.

Wat.

I think an acceptable policy is to discuss things that are against EULA/TOS for games that do not allow multiboxing. GW2 for example. At the moment, Blizzard does allow multiboxing so it would not be eligible for private server discussion, but it would be getting close.

[EaTCarbS]

I'll just take the ban from this forum i guess.

Knows its against the forums rules.
Posts anyways.

[Fat Tire]

We disabled /follow from use in battlegrounds to curb some of the most basic types of bots that use the command. We chose not to communicate it beforehand in attempts to catch as many bots unaware as possible. Removing /follow in battlegrounds is one small change we can make immediately to stop a number of bots, and those that choose to transition to more overt botting methods will have a much higher chance of being caught and banned.

We did consider those who use /follow for other reasons, including multiboxing, before making the change. Multiboxing in battlegrounds has been a long-fought battle within the community, as the effect of multiboxers in those situations is considered unfavorable by many. When we were looking to make a change to disable a command used by bots, which would benefit the game as a whole, we were ok with it also resulting in multiboxing in battlegrounds also going away due to the poor experience it can create for others.

Right now /follow is also disabled in Arenas, but we’re looking to revert that change as bots don’t typically exist in Arenas, and multiboxing in that kind of pre-determined group environment doesn’t tend to be as disruptive.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=6#104

[MiRai]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=6#104
Added thread to main post.

[Narij]

So what has long been thought is now proven true. complaining on the forums does get results.

Edit: so I guess this means the days of ganking, crz, and auction house control will be coming to an end.

[Chivalrous]

Judging from that post they probably won't disable /follow all together. So the PvE boxers might be left alone... Maybe not forever, but.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well at least that limits it to battle grounds and give some hope that they would be open to alternate suggestions as to boxing in BG's.


So what has long been thought is now proven true. complaining on the forums does get results.


Well there have been SO MANY complaints that what else can they do.

And you have to agree that the complaints are not without any substance, boxers are in fact overpowered and underpowered.


On the other hand getting rid of "basic bots" lol, they cant do anything to get rid of bots cept sue the bot software company which they are doing.

[Rosebud]

Blue post claims it is because of botting but follows it up with how they are improving the game for others by getting rid of multiboxing. I think they took all day to read the forums and see all the boxing hate posts only to swoop in and be the hero to the pitch-fork carrying mob. They probably consider the loss worth it or that the canceling threats are just threats. I'm not sure. One has to wonder if they planned to break it all along with his explanation of how it is good for the community.

[Acidburning]

my game cards just ran out the other day too, and I have been lazy getting to Best Buy.

as someone else suggested, let /follow work within the battle.net account. I realize that would not work with the community of boxers 9+, at least it would be a reasonable compromise.

I guess 5.2 is the real end to wow for me. I have canceled a few times and taken breaks, but always nice to come back when I was ready. To be forced out? I was 2boxing in vanilla. This change is 8 years too late blizzard. Poor, poor, poor decision.

acid

[flux1]

To me that blue post says "We have no idea how to stop the bot problem, so we are throwing whatever we can think of at the wall to see if it sicks. If you all get caught in the crossfire, we don't care because people complain about boxing all the time. If we put /follow back in for arenas will you shut up and leave us alone?" Yet as I've seen from posts on other forums, the bot problem is just as bad as ever after this change. As I said before, I never did much PVP, but I still won't give this company any more money after this. Sneaking it in without notice then dismissing complaints from the boxer's side as its easier than to listen to people keep complaining is rather pathetic. "We tolerate it. For now" indeed.

[Ñightsham]

So Blizzard is saying if you want to box in BG's, Good Luck.
Otherwise, were going let you box PVE, Dungeons, Raids and World PvP.

It'll take you x times longer (per acct) to get PvP gear which equals more $$ for blizzard.

I still sent in my complaint, yet like most of you have already said it'll make ZERO difference to blizzard.
Not going to BlizzCon

NS

[Owltoid]

They knew the impact to multiboxing and they were comfortable with it. I understand their desire to stealth nerf to try and catch more bots, but I think it's a poor decision to surprise players. I don't disagree with their decision, boxing was pissing lots of peeps off.

I cancelled my accounts. I could try to do arena, but without a good way to get honor (other than botting) they won't ever be able to gear-up enough to step in.

Onto better RL things, though I still plan on visiting DB.com often!

[Chivalrous]

I'm going to blizzcon with 4 other fat nerds that look like me and will clump up about 10 paces behind and they will all carry signs that say something protesty and follow me all day doing exactly what I do. Every once in awhile ill have to do a figure 8 to pick 1 up that lags behind. That'll get their attention.

[Mickthathick]

I'm going to blizzcon with 4 other fat nerds that look like me and will clump up about 10 paces behind and they will all carry signs that say something protesty and follow me all day doing exactly what I do. Every once in awhile ill have to do a figure 8 to pick 1 up that lags behind. That'll get their attention.

Don't forget to make a /dance macro on all your slaves! Damn your post me laugh, good work.

It's just so illogical what they have done, removing /follow to break bots that don't use /follow to function *shakes head

I work in local government so I am used to stupid shit occuring in the name of governance/process/policy/politics but this lack of logic is something even we would baulk at.

It is what it is though, looks like the vocal forum idiots got their way in the end.

[Tin]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=6#104


We disabled /follow from use in battlegrounds to curb some of the most basic types of bots that use the command. We chose not to communicate it beforehand in attempts to catch as many bots unaware as possible. Removing /follow in battlegrounds is one small change we can make immediately to stop a number of bots, and those that choose to transition to more overt botting methods will have a much higher chance of being caught and banned.

We did consider those who use /follow for other reasons, including multiboxing, before making the change. Multiboxing in battlegrounds has been a long-fought battle within the community, as the effect of multiboxers in those situations is considered unfavorable by many. When we were looking to make a change to disable a command used by bots, which would benefit the game as a whole, we were ok with it also resulting in multiboxing in battlegrounds also going away due to the poor experience it can create for others.

Right now /follow is also disabled in Arenas, but we’re looking to revert that change as bots don’t typically exist in Arenas, and multiboxing in that kind of pre-determined group environment doesn’t tend to be as disruptive.

[smalltanker]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=9#165 ... and of course we will never hear when/if they put /follow back into arena/BGs.

[Shodokan]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=9#165 ... and of course we will never hear when/if they put /follow back into arena/BGs.


We could all mass bombard mr street's twitter to at least get it back into arenas.

[smalltanker]

I did that last night

Let me do it again i guess. But I also cancelled six of my accounts... so I am voting with my bottom line, the only line they as a company care about.

[daviddoran]

Well I am so glad I quit already, cause this is the nail in the coffin for me.

It was a good run.

Off to Starcraft II Heart of the Swarm I go.

[luxlunae]

We could all mass bombard mr street's twitter to at least get it back into arenas.

Without a good way to get honor gear first though, how many people would bother with arenas.

[Rosebud]

They said the stealth nerf was to catch bots. However it is convenient that it was also not announced during the game box sale. They know that most of their sales are people buying for multiple accounts. How interesting that the sale ended just prior to the patch coming out along with this nerf. It's really a cheap and sneaky thing to do.

[smalltanker]

@Ghostcrawler (http://www.dual-boxing.com/Ghostcrawler) With the recent post about putting /follow back into Arenas is there an estimated time for that change for multi-boxers.

So tweet sent... and of course not expecting any returns or discussion from them at all

[blahbalah]

I started boxing a month ago so they wont give me a refund on the all the accounts, keys ect so I am just going to farm gold and sell it to Asians to make up the loss until sub runs out.

[Shodokan]

Well according to someone on the wow forums there is something that is effective as follow.

I guess we'll just wait and see.

Tried to ask him about it, and got nothing.

[Wait_what]

Filled my own two cents about this and a suggestion on how to work with both sides.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=11#214


Last post by
Heyshootthem

Tell me what you guys think.

[Fat Tire]

Well according to someone on the wow forums there is something that is effective as follow.

I guess we'll just wait and see.

Tried to ask him about it, and got nothing.

I saw that, if there was something as effective as follow I think we would already be using it.

[Wait_what]

I saw that, if there was something as effective as follow I think we would already be using it.

Be sure to post it here if its in fact true and can we get a link for this someone on the forums?

[Shodokan]

Be sure to post it here if its in fact true and can we get a link for this someone on the forums?

Won't matter i guess, they are from tim's site or something

-shrugs-

We'll know when ever.

[Lax]

IMO, I won't be surprised if they bring /follow back to battlegrounds in some period of weeks. As soon as the patch hit, news about /follow lit up, so it's not like they were expecting to suddenly ban a bunch of bots that they caught off guard and could now instantly detect as soon as the patch hit (even though people playing on PTR said /follow worked fine there before 5.2 went live)... And once the bots switch away from /follow, this feature removal serves no anti-botting purpose.

Consider the LFR delay, and think to yourself about how our situation relates. They want certain types of dedicated players to get the first whack at the new gear, etc., so that the experience is not cheapened for those players. Some people are happy, some people are sad, and Blizzard can claim some sort of victory. Now extend that same idea to PVP, and here we are.

Also consider that we know they have some automated system for suspending/banning suspect players in the battlegrounds. We know because various multiboxers were collateral damage. Well, now they still have their automated system but they can have it on, with little/no collateral damage simply because multiboxers are effectively eliminated from the BG's for the time being. I would assume that they are collecting useful data during this time, and that when/if they flip /follow back on, they will see more multiboxers' behavior patterns again and have a better idea who is a legitimate multiboxer, and who is not.

Anyway, there's my idle speculation.

[Shodokan]

IMO, I won't be surprised if they bring /follow back to battlegrounds in some period of weeks. As soon as the patch hit, news about /follow lit up, so it's not like they were expecting to suddenly ban a bunch of bots that they caught off guard and could now instantly detect as soon as the patch hit (even though people playing on PTR said /follow worked fine there before 5.2 went live)... And once the bots switch away from /follow, this feature removal serves no anti-botting purpose.

Consider the LFR delay, and think to yourself about how our situation relates. They want certain types of dedicated players to get the first whack at the new gear, etc., so that the experience is not cheapened for those players. Some people are happy, some people are sad, and Blizzard can claim some sort of victory. Now extend that same idea to PVP, and here we are.

Also consider that we know they have some automated system for suspending/banning suspect players in the battlegrounds. We know because various multiboxers were collateral damage. Well, now they still have their automated system but they can have it on, with little/no collateral damage simply because multiboxers are effectively eliminated from the BG's for the time being. I would assume that they are collecting useful data during this time, and that when/if they flip /follow back on, they will see more multiboxers' behavior patterns again and have a better idea who is a legitimate multiboxer, and who is not.

Anyway, there's my idle speculation.

Apparently theres ways around it... so who knows.

[Eteocles]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=6#104 - Basically saying they didn't mind it affecting "us"; though the silver lining is it might get reverted in Arenas, but BGs will still be followless.

[valkry]

I'm not quitting Battlegrounds, AV is now the best honour grind and I will use it. I just won't be able to use /follow, sucks to be my team in that BG

EDIT: IMO, if the QQ from boxers was big before this removal, if everyone kept boxing in BGs, imagine the QQ after...

[Jeppis]

just what i thought, multiboxing still allowed :P i'll resub just for fun :) i still can do pve, world pvp, 2v2 arena and queue to bg's with my handicapped wheelchairpaintrain and make more hate than ever :)

[Syferr]

I really hope Lax is right, hopefully they look at some of the constructive posts and emails they are receiving and change this back. I think lifting the limit on how many accounts you can have under the one Bnett account and only letting toons on that bnet account /follow would work well.

[Vardion]

The question for me now really is: Is it worth it? Do I want to spent money just to annoy other players? This change and the comments from the blues clearly show that we are not welcome in BGs anymore. If I am not welcome in one part of the game, I will not limit myself to the parts where I don't bother other players (i.e. instanced content). I always had the impression that Blizz was unbiased towards multiboxers. With IWT, follow and the macro system it actually felt that this game was made to be boxed. Now they are starting to move in a direction where I don't have that feeling anymore. I will still wait for a comment from some of the big shots (like Ghostcrawler) but at the moment my addiction has been rapidly cured by that action :)

[Wavingdark]

Been a good 8 years! I played vanilla to rank 13 (1% from high warlord lord Rank 14). In BC, I started Boxing 5 accounts and move up to 10. With this action I am going to cancel all 10 accounts. If they revert this change I may reconsider re-activating. If they did truly kill wow pvp with this patch. I just wanted to say thanks to all of you veterans that got us started with boxing.

[Pazgaz]

Accounts Cancelled. Been playing since 2005 and MB since Wrath.
I'll be trying Rift I guess.

[Sam DeathWalker]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69099



There is your pvp gear, we dont need honor to get it.

Also just do RATED BATTLE GROUNDS, my eperience is that 25 percent of the time the oppenet will not show up.

You dont need follow if the oppenet is not there.

You can get enough conquest for a purchace in 20 games.

[moog]

Of course, this is the perfect time to go single-boxing in BGs but emulate MB teams - say 5 of you team up, with a designated lead char, you manually follow the leader and have macros that work off his target.
It will look like a 5-box team but recover from fears and deaths more easily.
It would freak out the opposition :)

[TRoN]

Don't underestimate the commercial value of the multiboxing community that have active accounts. Blizzard don't really want to mess with us. They just want to make a two-head politic that suits the majority of players but don't warm multiboxers too much.

Just as an example of a single player - me:

I have an active subscrition since the release date (2005) and I began multiboxing 5 toons on WotLK (2008). So lets put it in numbers:

Subs:

((2013-2005) * 12 + 4 * (2013-2008) * 12) * 12€ = 4032€

Boxes:

1 set of collectors edition (vanilla to MOP) + 4 normal (bchest + WotLK + Cata + MOP) + 2 innactive accounts (vanilla + TBC) + 5 BattleChests I bought last week to RAF another batch of toons (sic!!) = roughly 1200€

11 transfers: 220€

TOTAL: Around 5500€

I think most multiboxers are driving (or they will sooner or later) 5 toon teams. So if we were just 100 (because I think we are some more), that means a potentially income equal to 500 normal players.

Any company, even a big one like Blizzard, will not waste 500 clients mostly because this mean a mountly income. So the real deal is those '500 players' * many time * cost of subscritions and/or services they pay.

I'm sure Blizzard will not harm multiboxers as long we stay cool and behave according to the rules without 'crossing the line' (imho, some of us, regarding PvP, are stepping that line and this measure is consequence of that).

He have to agree that removing /follow on BG/arena are very welcome to the majority of the community and, even most of the modern bots don't use follow, it can help to stop or minimize the plague. For instance, botters cannot state 'Hey, you're wrong! I'm not a botter, I'm a multiboxer'.

Tbh, I think they didn't thought about /follow beeing a essencial feature to us. Someone, in the morning briefing, may have thrown on the table his big idea to stop botting:

"hey and if we remove /follow in BGs and arenas?"
"hell yeaah!!"
"brilliant!"
"mmm, do the bots follow?"
"sure, I remember to have seen a bunch following the same char"
"yea, this time we've got them"
"and the community will rejoice"
"to work, then. let it happens right on the patch"
"but the patch notes were already announced"
"that will be a surprise"
"yeah, and then we can write in the forums: aren't you thankful?"
"hehe..."

TL;DR: 1. Multiboxers are important to Blizzard because in this type of business (subscrition based + extra services) a few thousend accounts means good money. 2. Assumption that some Blizzard decisions are taken without serious ponderation. 3. Removing follow in BG/Arena was not aimed to us. Maybe they didn't even know it was so crucial.

[Chivalrous]

Well, dungeon bosses now reward 100jp. So 4 bosses reward 275 (I'm going off memory here that number might not be correct) honor once converted. You could run dungeons for honor gear and arenas for conquest gear if the change is rolled back in arena... /shrug. I did a random last night to make sure everything still worked in pve and I cleared moshugan palace quite quickly (like 12 mins probably) so it would've equaled like ~200 honor.

Silly Blizz.

[ebony]

http://www.thedailyblink.com/comics/2013-03-06-427.jpg


we got owned. the players love it now we gone. since mop came out there been more and more hate even to the point some staff with the hate for us.

its over this change is not going to be undone with the feedback blizzard getting back. its never been about the money.

they should just remove Join as group from bg's.

[Dooz]

I think the way they went about it was F'd, but.... honestly, I knew this day was coming. I think they were alright with boxing pre-ISboxer , but I think we crossed a line in the sand. I'm not knocking ISBoxer... I'm a subscriber. But rare was the day when you'd see a 5/10 boxer in a BG before it. More multiboxers meant more complaints. I think we all knew this. That's why we put the heavy emphasis on being legit... "Don't give them a reason to ban us." So here we are.

Anyway, I'm done with WoW. Looking for new game.

[Noxdiebox]

For multiboxers who understand German:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/forum/topic/6787309559?page=1

[sethlan]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69099



There is your pvp gear, we dont need honor to get it.

Also just do RATED BATTLE GROUNDS, my eperience is that 25 percent of the time the oppenet will not show up.

You dont need follow if the oppenet is not there.

You can get enough conquest for a purchace in 20 games.

I never tried to q up for rbg, with my ten box seems like a great idea,

[zenga]

Once the lobby starts to work, no way that blizzard can keep up with this change without providing an alternative. With the lobby I mean any group of blind/disabled people giving rumor to this change. You have to realize wow is played by a lot of people who have little else to do due to some sort of disability. With a lot I'm not talking about 10s of thousands, but that doesn't really matter.

Imagine that a blind guy who's enjoyment it is to do a few random bg's every night with his brother, now all in a sudden gets taken away one of his main enjoyments. Making this example up, but you'd be surprised how certain people play this game and what kind of enjoyment they get out of it. Remember that iraq veteran who lost his sight during combat but still killed ragnaros in firelands? It's not only the blind people that use follow, etc etc You get the point.

Now imagine how bad of a pub it would be for blizzard when there is an article in some news magazine with a headline such as: 'Blizzard removes the enjoyment of the disabled players' You can probably come up with better titles, but again you get the idea.
Not accommodating to the unhealthy is frowned upon, in pretty much every civilized place in the world.

If you want follow back in BGs, contact some organisation for blind people, write a press statement and send that to every possible news agency in the world. Once word gets out, I guarantee you that blizz will either provide an alternative or will revert the change.

[Ronburgundy]

Soooo now what...

[heyaz]

Don't underestimate the commercial value of the multiboxing community that have active accounts. Blizzard don't really want to mess with us. They just want to make a two-head politic that suits the majority of players but don't warm multiboxers too much.

Just as an example of a single player - me:

I have an active subscrition since the release date (2005) and I began multiboxing 5 toons on WotLK (2008). So lets put it in numbers:

Subs:

((2013-2005) * 12 + 4 * (2013-2008) * 12) * 12€ = 4032€

Boxes:

1 set of collectors edition (vanilla to MOP) + 4 normal (bchest + WotLK + Cata + MOP) + 2 innactive accounts (vanilla + TBC) + 5 BattleChests I bought last week to RAF another batch of toons (sic!!) = roughly 1200€

11 transfers: 220€

TOTAL: Around 5500€

I think most multiboxers are driving (or they will sooner or later) 5 toon teams. So if we were just 100 (because I think we are some more), that means a potentially income equal to 500 normal players.

Any company, even a big one like Blizzard, will not waste 500 clients mostly because this mean a mountly income. So the real deal is those '500 players' * many time * cost of subscritions and/or services they pay.

I'm sure Blizzard will not harm multiboxers as long we stay cool and behave according to the rules without 'crossing the line' (imho, some of us, regarding PvP, are stepping that line and this measure is consequence of that).

He have to agree that removing /follow on BG/arena are very welcome to the majority of the community and, even most of the modern bots don't use follow, it can help to stop or minimize the plague. For instance, botters cannot state 'Hey, you're wrong! I'm not a botter, I'm a multiboxer'.

Tbh, I think they didn't thought about /follow beeing a essencial feature to us. Someone, in the morning briefing, may have thrown on the table his big idea to stop botting:

"hey and if we remove /follow in BGs and arenas?"
"hell yeaah!!"
"brilliant!"
"mmm, do the bots follow?"
"sure, I remember to have seen a bunch following the same char"
"yea, this time we've got them"
"and the community will rejoice"
"to work, then. let it happens right on the patch"
"but the patch notes were already announced"
"that will be a surprise"
"yeah, and then we can write in the forums: aren't you thankful?"
"hehe..."

TL;DR: 1. Multiboxers are important to Blizzard because in this type of business (subscrition based + extra services) a few thousend accounts means good money. 2. Assumption that some Blizzard decisions are taken without serious ponderation. 3. Removing follow in BG/Arena was not aimed to us. Maybe they didn't even know it was so crucial.


Don't underestimate the >$120,000,000 they make from subs overall, nearly all of which does not come from us.

I'm sure Blizzard did some serious "ponderation" before making any change that would affect subscriptions. You know, like analysts with spreadsheets and meetings and the like. They calculated it and it made sense. They won't be losing much.

[Ronburgundy]

And im just now seeing the irony in my signature image -_-

I wonder if the Blizz devs who multibox themselves are upset about this.

[moosejaw]

Hey Ron, I made the Scrapiron post yesterday. Pointed out how boxers were so numerous to disrupt bg's before and now we are insignificant when our gameplay is ruined. Once again, nothing but idiots on the wow forums.

I already setup a station pass for one of my EQ1 + EQ2 accounts. I am going to solo some classic goodness for a while.

[Ronburgundy]

That was you? Haha i was like EURICKA!!!!!!! Someone with a fucking brain! you literally hit the nail on the head there with that post it was comical. WoW forums really are just ok lets see who can manipulate this topic the best to make it look like their facts lineup.

[Starbuck_Jones]

They will find a way to kill it off I think. Lets face it, there was a lot of hate towards multiboxing since day one. Disabling /follow is simply lazy customer support to stop a bot. What's next? Disabling /assist or /target or using hotkeys to target group members? I'm sure these were used by bots as well.

It will be all cheers and fireworks that Multiboxing has been slain in arena's and BG's but world pvp it's still there and the player demand to put that to a stop will be heard. They will find a way to kill it all together because even losing a thousand accounts is worth the customer satisfaction boost.

[Narij]

Looking over this thread, and I can't help but see the seven stage of grief. I feel were either on bargaining or acceptance at this point.

[moosejaw]

That was you? Haha i was like EURICKA!!!!!!! Someone with a fucking brain! you literally hit the nail on the head there with that post it was comical. WoW forums really are just ok lets see who can manipulate this topic the best to make it look like their facts lineup.


A boxer got my sister pregnant!!!!!

[Chivalrous]

I bet it was Ellay.

[SoulSeekerUSA]

They are starting to lock the MB threads all over the forums now.

[Fat Tire]

They are starting to lock the MB threads all over the forums now.

yup looks like its a done deal

If they decide to revert to allow follow in arena I will still play, but only two max from now on.

[Owltoid]

yup looks like its a done deal

If they allow follow in arena I will still play but only two now max.

Dual boxing shouldn't be much of an issue for melee since they can share the same mount.

[Chivalrous]

Yeah I noticed that too. Guess that means they're finished discussing it.

[Sam DeathWalker]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929775?page=28

some are locked some have been unlocked. New threads are poping up also.

I think threads auto lock at 500 replies is that true?