Cataclysm Crowd Control?

[crowdx]

So being pretty new to multiboxing I read with interest that Cataclysm will bring back CC to dungeons, my question is, will this affect team composition for us multiboxers? My concern obviously would be that 3/4 shamans and a tank would become obsolete due to not have the variety of CC needed to clear dungeons? How did folks handle CC in the Burning Crusade? Blizzard indicates in the latest blue posts that every class will have some form of CC and that this will dictate how the dungeon is cleared.

I remember in BC that in pugs this was a pain point for many classes where the groups leaned most towards mages and hunters and kicked other classes which had CC in favor of these classes due to their better utility.

How did it work for mutliboxers in BC?

[HPAVC]

Did they remove hex in cata?

[Ualaa]

- Death Knights don't have a CC option that I know of.
- Druids can root, but cyclone is generally too short for a CC.
- Hunters can freeze trap, or snare/kite some targets.
- Mages can sheep, and can easily re-sheep.
- Paladins don't have a CC option that I know of.
- Priests can charm, but generally heroic mobs were immune. They could shackle undead.
- Rogues could sap, but could not re-sap targets.
- Shammies can hex, but they did not have that option in BC.
- Warrior CC is limited to off-tanking.
- Warlocks can banish, or a succubus can seduce, fear is generally a poor CC especially now that you cannot yo-yo mobs with Fear + Curse of Exhaustion/Curse of Recklessness chains.

Not everyone has CC, but most groups should have a decent assortment.

Depends how intelligent the random dungeon finder is, I suppose.
We could get a Pally healer, Druid tank, with the DPS of Death Knight, Warrior and Rogue.
That gets us off-tank options and sap as crowd control.
Depending how prevalent the need for CC, some classes could be more popular then others.

[ragawaga]

- Death Knights don't have a CC option that I know of.
- Druids can root, but cyclone is generally too short for a CC.
- Paladins don't have a CC option that I know of.
- Shammies can hex, but they did not have that option in BC.


A few additions

- Deathknights can chains of ice....only really kiting but can help. i think they have something that freezes opponents too....although not 100% sure on that.
- Druids can also put an animal to sleep
- Paladins have hammer of justice and repentance
- Shammans can earth bind totem which will also root if talented, stone claw totem can also help in a pinch

[Mercurio]

Pallies also have Turn Undead
Warriors have a stun - Concussion Blow, I believe? Not much, but similar to pally Hammer of Justice

[crowdx]

I think more my point is, for example a shaman and hex, this works on certain targets but not all, and so in certain instances it will be useless, and so make a 3 man shaman team very ineffective.

And so how did people handle this in the Burning Crusade? Or was it just a case of out gearing the instance, which from the blue post, says is not something that will be easily doable.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Brute force and over gearing. But im not looking forward to boxing if I have to write out a bunch of custom target hex macros for each new instance if the only viable way is to cc 2/3 of every pull. If its required, then they are going to have to make the mobs crazy insane hard to require that. We can already 5man all the trash in icc to marrowgar.

[crowdx]

Well it could be simply stacking mechanisms which would kill the group if all the mobs are allowed to stack, kinda like Anub/OK with no cleanse, poision would wipe a group fast . Add in CC to CC the mobs which do X DoT and then kill one by one.
I think they have to be thinking of a different mechanism if the blue post is talking about not being able to over gear and brute force them.

[Ualaa]

Well, still looking at the random dungeon finder feature.

If you are randomly assigned a group like this:
Paladin - Tank
Shaman - Healer
Rogue - DPS
DK - DPS
Mage - DPS

That gets you, Hex from the shammy, Sap from the rogue, and maybe kite one mob with the DK.
The cooldown on Hex won't allow you to re-Hex once it breaks.
Sap requires the target to be out of combat, so it cannot be applied either.
A rogue could re-CC via Blind once, I suppose.

But this group could easily occur with the dungeon finder.
If you were in an instance with demon type trash, there aren't a lot of CC options.
If CC is basically going to be a requirement, then the dungeon finder needs to change how it builds groups.



From a boxing point of view.
We can create macros for /Cast [target=Focus] CC-Ability.
We can round-robin, via software, our Focus targets.
We can raid symbol mark our Focus targets, via the class that is focusing, to visually be sure each Focuses the correct target.

We're not likely going to be able to kite a mob, with a Hunter/DK, while playing the tank, healer and other DPS.
Our option will be the initial CC as the pull is made.

Depending on the difficulty of mobs... If they're as hard as heroics were in the early BC era, prior to SSC/TK, we might only be able to do 5-mans with mixed groups - ie, a large number of different CC modes.
But if the mobs just hit hard and are otherwise nasty but doable, then frequent eating/drinking - possibly between every pull - might be enough.

[Nolife]

/castsequence [@focus, harm] reset=combat Your CC Spell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
or
/castsequence [@focus, harm] reset=combat/target/5 Your CC Spell,NULL

add this to your normal castingsequence

[Ualaa]

Nice idea.. with the click castsequence recasting it automatically.
That will depend on if a mob can break a CC early, or if they'll go the full duration.

[Velassra]

I think they have to be thinking of a different mechanism if the blue post is talking about not being able to over gear and brute force them.

Where'd you get that from?

[Whowantstoknow]

Where'd you get that from?

Nowhere because its incorrect:

Crowd Control in Cataclysm
Not every pull is going to require crowd control, but there will be pulls that require crowd control, which isn't really the case today. Once you overgear content you overgear it, and you can take shortcuts.

The model the are going for is more pulls similar to HPoS before the cave. I dont CC these as I overgear them but I imagine a bunch of new 80s probably would have to. Nothing is going to be as difficult as HSH or HSLabs

[lightstriker]

I can't cc anything; I AoE everything. Every class has some kind of AoE ability; except Rogues who can at most hit 2 mobs at once with talent. Priest dont get Mind Sear until 70. what level is holy Nova?

Rogues get Fan of Knifes at 80

[Slats]

It was my understanding that Priests got Mind Seer at 75? I'm kind of looking forward to it as I'm 74 1/2 on my Priest. Though I havn't been back to the trainer at all haha.

I have been setting up ISBoxer so that I can use ClickBars to assign CC targets and mark and focus my CC. I think I would simple have a key that /stopcasting and reapplies all of my teams CC and perhaps a click button to apply individual CC.

3 or 4 Hex is still pretty decent. I highly doubt we will see Cataclysm requiring specific types of CC and I think you will see the restrictions on who can CC what being lowered so we dont see things like H MgT in TBC where in the beginning you really needed a rogue a mage a priest etc to have all the different mob types covered.

As someone else said this would perform poorly along side the Random Dungeon Finder and if they tried to add it into the queue system I imagine queues would be much longer. :(

[lightstriker]

I cant remember the levels of every spell. I was just throwing a guest number

[coglistings]

holy nova is learned at a relateively low level now, 20 ish? It just really sucked pre wolk if I remember

[kernel.k]

rogues have fan of knives.