Is my recount broken??

[Multibocks]

Question for those here: In raids my slaves can sustain 6k dps and thats ok for their gear level. Not outstanding, but ok. What's strange is I hear people hitting 6k dps+ on heroic bosses or the training dummy. With raid buffs I can see that, but my alts are consistently at 3kish(anywhere from 3400 to 2900) dps during heroics and on (nonraidbuffed) boss dummies.
At first I thought, maybe I suck. The problem with that is the absolute measure of dps (how fast does boss die) is inline with people that are claiming 6k dps per character. I can kill Loken in 17-18secs, etc. So now Im wondering if recount is broken or I have somethign wrong in the settings?

What really bothers me is people showing 6k dps on a training dummy when I cant get over 3.5k. Something is not right. How can I kill stuff as fast as these people yet never approach what they are showing on their meters for a training dummy?

[crowdx]

Someone here made a very valid point about recount, over the course of a regular heroic boss with dps spikes and how fast a fully geared group can kill the boss really throws off any damage meter like recount.
As for the training dummies, I have seen people posting here saying that they did their check on non-heroic dummies to simulate what their dps would be in a raid due to missing all the raid buffs.
I think the fact that you kill stuff very fast is the real dps meter :)

[Drizzit]

Tell me about it. My dps sucks so bad in heroics. I haven't tried my druid in raid yet. I was doing about 1.3-1.5k dps in cat form with mostly blues and greens. I switched over to boom and now i am doing 1.8-2.3k in 90% epics (granted i am missing enchants and gems, but gear in general is better). The reason is that i cannot put my dots on a trash pull, the reason is that the mob dies before the dots run out, so it is a waste of a CD. On bosses i just dot them once. The other thing is that i just spam wrath the whole time, when my eclipse does proc the trash is over or when i i finish the spell the mob is dead. Same thing for bosses, 90% of the time it procs right at the end of the battle. Things just die too quick in heroics.

[genocyde]

Theres a few things that can throw recount off by quite a bit.

Fight time can be thrown off by multiple things, for example:
-Pulling with your tank several seconds before you start DPS.
-Some classes have a slow ramp up time, you simply can't achieve good DPS in under 20 seconds.
-Recount will keep tracking your damage til you stop so if you stop dps and a DoT ticks for another 10 seconds it will count that time against your DPS. (Dummies)
-Short fights like Heroic bosses can be skewed wildly by lucky crit streaks. I know on Loken I have broken 11K DPS on a mage that managed to score 70% crits with awesome proc luck when his avg on that fight is usually more in the 8-9K range.

Also keep in mind that raids are quite a bit different than heroics in other ways. You can dump a TON of +hit in heroics to pic up additional DPS stats and your cooldowns can last an entire fight, also proc based classes may not get any love at all.

[Multibocks]

Ya I've thought a lot about the quirkiness of recount, but it still doesnt account for the differences in the dps screenshots I see people posting from their dummy runs. =/

[genocyde]

What team are you running, gear level, macro's etc? I've heard of some silly problems with recount... too many to list. However if your standing in a close range group nuking a test dummy that nobody else is attacking and getting consistently low dps... It's time to start looking for other possible probs.

Otherwise I'd go find a boss like Loken (stationary tank and spank) and a stopwatch and just time how long it takes to kill him from your first DPS button press and do some math to see if your real DPS is even close to matching Recount..

Also, compare your recounts time in combat to your stopwatch and make sure you are selecting 'current fight' or a specific single fight in recount when your looking at those #'s :)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

People tend to be self-promoting (which isn't a bad thing, mind you). Thus, people tend to toss out "I do 9k dps on heroic bosses" when anyone asks 'em about it. Problem is, I don't think there's an addon that will average across your last 10 bosses, or your last 10 heroic runs, etc., so you only hear about those "super awesome crit strings" where people do crazy DPS. You get less of that here, which speaks to the general d-b.com character (/high-five!) but it still happens.

WoWwebstats.com has listings for heroic bosses and overall complete heroic runs, which may give you a better feel for how folks are doing there.

[genocyde]

Problem is, I don't think there's an addon that will average across your last 10 bosses, or your last 10 heroic runs, etc.,

God I wish there was a mod that did that. If only addon coding was c# or java or something, I would write one :)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

God I wish there was a mod that did that. If only addon coding was c# or java or something, I would write one :)

The more I thought about this and got to looking, even WWS doesn't do this. It aggregates global stats per boss, per class, etc. My guess is that those web parsers are not designed to upload a big log or multiple logs and focus on the player.

Would be nice if wowarmory maintained a bit of that average data. I'd much rather have people checking my DPSScore than my GearScore. http://ugh.scaredsheep.com/smileys/armed.gif

[wowphreak]

its to easy to game dps meters. one of the things to look at is overall damage done it'll give yeh a better feel of where yeh stand.

I mean with my warlock specced aff I've done 15k dps at one time does that mean I'm totally awesome with a warlock, no, just that everything was in my favor at that time, it was a raid, was fully buffed, there was a large cluster of mobs close together and I hit the mother of all string of crits, go figure.

In 5 mans on my warlock the better geared a group is the worse my dps is.
In 5 mans once yeh hit over a certain gear level who ever can do more burst damage will have the higher dps.


If yeh cant get over 2k dps yeh just level 80 and/or yeh dont know yer rotation or i should say yeh priority que.

[Boylston]

I raid with my shaman a lot. I always get frustrated when people overreact to meters, particularly when they focus on their ePeen and DPS statistics. This never happens to me in my guild-- if anything, we coach people to continuously improve their individual performance rather than comparing who was top/last.

I'll never forget a PUG ToC-10 run that I ran right when that minipatch hit. It was a crazy fight, and there was an awful resto druid who died because he stood in Jaraxxus fire. Boss was at 10% when this happened and we damn near wiped.

When the fight was over, a hunter posted a DPS report (during loot proceedings, of course), and started to complain about my low DPS. "Way to stink up the bottom of the meters, Boylston". Another chimed in with "Let's boot him, LOL DPS".

The raid leader, thankfully, was a pro and replied with something like the following. "What the two of you are failing to comprehend is that Boylston purged off every single boss buff, interrupted its spellcast twice when the melee assigned to the task broke off to kill adds against my instructions, didn't stand in any fire, and switched to spamming chain heal to save the raid. He saved a wipe and executed his role well. You owe him your thanks, not grief." The raid leader then posted the interrupts and dispells data, and told them they needed to STFU.

Hunter got cute and linked the healing meter, clearly showing me only doing 80-90,000 of heals. "The druid did like 20x more healz, LOL." (The dead druid, who stood in the fire...)

Raid leader booted him and give me a nice piece for my offset.

Anyhow, I digress....


If you are killing stuff fast, don't worry about the meters!

[Iceorbz]

People are all the time skewing dps, so many "dps parses" that are lusted, with spell power equip trinkets.

I personnaly only consider my *sustained* dps (that which i can do for like 5-10 minutes of time) my real dps. Not this blood lust, and watch my two trinkets pop for another 1k spell power while i dps for 30 seconds bullshit ;p.

[genocyde]

People are all the time skewing dps, so many "dps parses" that are lusted, with spell power equip trinkets.

I personnaly only consider my *sustained* dps (that which i can do for like 5-10 minutes of time) my real dps. Not this blood lust, and watch my two trinkets pop for another 1k spell power while i dps for 30 seconds bullshit ;p.

That's fine if your fully raid buffed and doing raid fights but the topic was that his heroic DPS was lower than other peoples. Heroic DPS is not going to be well balanced for everyone, just like unbuffed DPS won't be balanced for everyone. Rogues get a huge bonus from raid buffs due to not having any buffs of their own. Shaman get much less bonus from raid buffs as they bring some of the best buffs in the raid anyway.

I personally think heroism/lust should be made a self buff only just because it's way OP to have one class bring a buff that strong when all the others are trivialized out to 2-3 other classes that can bring the same buff. That doesn't mean a shaman using lust is skewing their dps meters by using it. If anything they should be using it even in 'self buffed' comparisons because thats one of the things they bring to the table.

Unless you are comparing two of the same class on the exact same fight DPS comparisons aren't going to be all that useful. It doesn't matter if it's a 30 second lusted heroic boss with trinkets or a 5 minute buffless sustained training dummy parse. Neither are going to be good comparisons because that isn't how blizzard balances the classes.

[crowdx]

I gotta say even two of the same class are not always a good comparison. My two warlcocks which are VERY similar in gear vary wildely in dps from recount. I gave up worrying about it. It just seems with classes that are crit dependent damage meters are not a good rule of thumb due to the luck of who is critting.
Also something I did notice last night was that lag can also affect things badly. I had a lot of trouble killing stuff last night and finally just went to bed, everything seemed to take so long to kill. First thing this morning I went back and ran a fast dungeon before work and nuked everything in seconds, my only conclusion could be network lag.

[Coltimar]

My level 72 quest/instance geared shadow priest is pulling around 470dps (less than half what my destro lock and arcane mage do). Her trouble is poor AoE and slow dots. I almost do better with just Mind Blast and Mind Flay on trash, it's about the same. I'm fittin' to drop her for an ele shaman I think :/

[Niley]

. I can kill Loken in 17-18secs, etc. So now Im wondering if recount is broken or I have somethign wrong in the settings?
back in the day when my team was doing =/- 6k dps per actual dps(tank excluded) he would die in 11-13s.
Now that I'm quite a bit more geared ive had few 9s kills when doing daily


this is ss that i posted months ago, still in t8.
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8709/wowscrnshot090609004428.jpg

now if you party does 6000 dps each and tank does 3000 dps, that comes to 27000 dps, with loken having 512k hp it would mean that you will kill him in just about 18s.
I would like to see ss of your recount, specifically total dps and damage done, then we can tell if you're having issue with recount.
You might also want to try skada which is alternative to recount, just to see if there is difference in damage(dps values will be slightly different, skada calculates actual dps). I personally never had problem with recount, i also don't know anyone that did....and the person who wrote recount raided in my guild for years(never heard of any issues).
One thing that maybe is an issue here is having recount set to "overall data" and not "current fight".


ps. To people saying that dps doesnt matter, meters don't matter etc. They do, they can help you identify problems, see if upgrades do what they were meant to do etc etc. They can help you improve your team, make it better, make boxing newer content much much easier.

[HPAVC]

I would download loggerhead and make a wwstats account, upload there and compare. You can upload 20 hours worth of logging, I definately like my wwstats numbers over what recount and skada say.

[Fursphere]

I raid with my shaman a lot. I always get frustrated when people overreact to meters, particularly when they focus on their ePeen and DPS statistics. This never happens to me in my guild-- if anything, we coach people to continuously improve their individual performance rather than comparing who was top/last.

I'll never forget a PUG ToC-10 run that I ran right when that minipatch hit. It was a crazy fight, and there was an awful resto druid who died because he stood in Jaraxxus fire. Boss was at 10% when this happened and we damn near wiped.

When the fight was over, a hunter posted a DPS report (during loot proceedings, of course), and started to complain about my low DPS. "Way to stink up the bottom of the meters, Boylston". Another chimed in with "Let's boot him, LOL DPS".

The raid leader, thankfully, was a pro and replied with something like the following. "What the two of you are failing to comprehend is that Boylston purged off every single boss buff, interrupted its spellcast twice when the melee assigned to the task broke off to kill adds against my instructions, didn't stand in any fire, and switched to spamming chain heal to save the raid. He saved a wipe and executed his role well. You owe him your thanks, not grief." The raid leader then posted the interrupts and dispells data, and told them they needed to STFU.

Hunter got cute and linked the healing meter, clearly showing me only doing 80-90,000 of heals. "The druid did like 20x more healz, LOL." (The dead druid, who stood in the fire...)

Raid leader booted him and give me a nice piece for my offset.

Anyhow, I digress....


If you are killing stuff fast, don't worry about the meters!

This post needs to be framed and put on the wall or something. THIS is what raiding is all about - knowing your class inside and out (something a lot of 'boxers need to do).

But unfortunately this doesn't translate all that well to a multiboxing group - one can pull some tricks, but not at the level shown here.

My tank has gotten to the point of not needing heals for most heroics, so I could run 4x DPS and really just blow stuff up, but I still don't. I like "smooth" runs, not wild crazy runs (at least when I'm 'boxing). :D

[BobGnarly]

Yeah, I think it's the usual. People figure out some magical way to reap a high number and then claim that's their DPS from then on.

My main is a mage, and one day in a pug, on Krick of all fights, I came in just a bit over 8k dps. Understand my mage isn't very well geared, maybe avg 225-230 gear. It was just that I never had to move in this fight (he didn't do the mines phase), the overall group DPS was high, allowing me to spam arcane blast, and I had a ton of luck on crits. IOW, something I will probably never repeat.

Every dog has its day, but some dogs want to lord that day all over everybody, I guess.

Also, if you EVER link recount, you are relegated to full n00b status imo.

[genocyde]

This thread contains a lot of statements and stories that characterize the reason I box to begin with.

[crowdx]

To genocyde . DITTO, so the reason I box and not have to deal with Gear Score and recount :D

[Lokked]

I grouped with a SP who posted recount after each TRASH pull, mocking everyone else for their low DPS and bashing the tank for losing agro (cause the SP got spanked).

The SP didn't even have any agro-reduction talents specced :/

I'm going to 3rd Geno's post as to why I box.