Rets Arena Week Five

[Mosg2]

I had this huge post pre-typed up with per-game analysis of what I did wrong. I did 10 games and while it was compiling I went and fixed some macros and keybinds and a few other small things. Then I went on a mad killing streak and went from 192 to somewhere just shy of 700. I can't believe the difference it made just dicking around with a few commas and such. It totally revitalized my interest in this team.

In any case, here are the links to video post. Comments are welcome but please be constructive. Anything you don't feel comfortable sharing in the open you can PM me--I promise I can keep whatever it is private :) Thanks in advance!

P.S. Video part four got corrupted during the upload. I'll get it posted before tomorrow.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?p=252682#post252682

^^Link to the movies section. Not sure if this is the best way to post these but I'd prefer to keep the discussion in the pvp forums since they're much more heavily trafficked.

[remanz]

The thing about Arena is that without playing tons of games, You don't see clearly what's working what's not working. Sometimes I thought of something new and put it to use, only to face a few good teams in a roll and getting destroyed. I will be like "Oh, this is not working out to well".

And some "noobish" strategies that I used, it worked out because I got lucky. Won 5 games in a roll, all of sudden my hopes are all up, mashing that keyboard like a mad man. Only to get disappointed later. This is just for me.


Based on your video, I can definitely see that you are getting the hang of the melee team. Comparing to week 4, you are doing way better. So maybe you should really just play more. I suggest to play 3 v 3 by yourself. test your strategies there. And you don't have to care about rating. queue is faster. 5 v 5 is a bit slow for me in bloodlust due to everybody doing PVE.

[Shodokan]

This is what i suggest you do Mosg.

Grind your team to 1500 and decide what works and what doesn't in the process. If you can't make 1500 then i suggest either rolling a different team you feel would work, or if you are having fun just keep playing them until you get bored.

The one thing i notice is your poor choice in targets to start with. It is hard to determine which is the healer sometimes but if it's a pally healer you NEED to make sure it uses it's bubble. The best thing you've done is go after warlocks first. (at least that's what it looked like) Anything that can fear your toons needs to die up front as you don't want to be wasting bubble on that.

You've gotten better at healing but you definitely need an "oshit" button like Bubble + full heal on someone or multiple people. I don't know if you have this but it could help. Also since you are on your death knight i cannot tell if you are cyceling divine sacrifice or not. Also make sure that you have your shield up that makes you take more healing at all times. I'm not sure you are at the point where you can just rush in and do enough damage fast enough to kill anything that is pre-hotted for example but then again i could be wrong. I saw you kill the warrior first once, which i was confused about.... it got no healing and you won that match so i guess you can't complain.

Also when going after death knights. Make them use their anti magic shell (self one) and then SWITCH targets to a healer (if there is one) as soon as the AMS is off then kill the DK.

It just seems like it's an experience problem along with some kinks that need to be worked out. I would suggest looking over some tips on how to play a single ret paladin over at arenajunkies.com and applying whatever knowledge you feel is applicable to multi-boxing them in arena.

[Coltimar]

I have never played a real arena match. I have always wanted to, but I have been too chicken. Your tenacity is encouraging. I enjoy Wow's version of PvP but prefer world encounters to canned matches. I think I might just take one of my team into arena and lose me some matches! Thanks for the very useful info.

[Mosg2]

I posted the third video that got ate while uploading the night before.

[Seldum]

How importent is your DK for your team?

Im a total noob in pvp but your DK dies 1/3 of the time very fast. I can also see you never use your mana to the full, so I guess more healing should be possible?

[Mosg2]

The issue isn't one of mana, it's cast time. You only get so many AoW procs. Also, he only has 700 res.

After I get all this Furious gear farmed up I think it'll be a lot better on the DK's survivability. I'm also considering changing specs to a lot more defensive one.

[Zappy]

Mine aren't 80 yet (79.5), so I don't know how well this will work, but I think putting this into a rotation could help a ton:

One of the most annoying spells against facing a paladin is that both their hammer and repentance are great stuns. Especially the hammer as damage won't break it. So at the start, open with hungering cold, then creating a cc macro for each paladin:

/castsequence reset=40 [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice, Repentance
/castsequence reset=40 [target=arena2,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice, Repentance
/castsequence reset=40 [target=arena3,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice, Repentance
/castsequence reset=40 [target=arena4,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice, Repentance

So if they trinket out of hungering cold, the hammer should get them with a full duration stun, and once hammer expires, hit them with repentance. If I recall, hammer doesn't required you to be facing the targets, I'm not sure about repentance.

Again, I have no real experience with this, but adding some CC would help a ton. If Repentance does not require you to face the target, then that may be a better opener as that's a 20 yard range vs the hammers 10 yard.

[remanz]

hungering cold needs a whopping 40 Runic Power. I don't think you can use it right at the start. You have to hit someone. But if you are hitting someone, he is more likely dead.

Repentance needs facing. So it basically up to the other team whether you can land it or not. Not saying not do this, but this strategy needs some work and clever tricks.

I think if they are in melee, it will be your game. But we are not countering melees here are we. We are talking wizards. So might be worth while to setup a chain (2) repentance on your kill target. This will make sure at least you can close in on him. Leave the rest 2 random (arena2,arena3). Once in melee, chain your (2) hammers, you should at least get 4 secs out of 2 stuns on him unless he goes immune. Save your DG for the 2nd target.

[suprafro]

I spaced out of hungering cold this week but have used it for the last 2 weeks, with it I really liked using the hungering cold glyph which reduces its runic power cost by 40 (making it cost nothing). You can always open with it should you choose to, and its always avilable when you need it...worth the glyph slot IMO

On Dalarn and RoV I always open with quad repent, as you have pretty much guarenteed LoS on the entire team. Works well in my experience...In nagrand, ruins, and blades edge i always attempt an opening DG gib

[Zappy]

I'm not sure I've seen an armory link posted to your characters, but I know you get "Glyph of Hungering Cold" which removes the runic power requirement:

Glyph of Hungering Cold

One thing I've done a little different on mine is skipping the end talent "Divine Storm" in favor of "Blessing of Sanctuary" for the paladin I've given the devotion talent to. Increased 10% stamina, 10% strength + 3% damage reduction seems nice.

Thinking a little more about the macros, maybe a better option is:

/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice
/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Repentance

I think if the first one fails due to range, it'll at least try the second one.

It's gonna be sad day for me this week when they finally ding, as right now I'm destroying everything in BGs. :D

[suprafro]

Zappy just as an FYI, the stamina and strength bonus from sanctuary doesn't stack with kings

[remanz]

oh my bad. Didn't notice the glyph there. Good call

/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice
/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Repentance

wouldn't work though. In 1 macro, it will be stuck on Hammer of Justice at all time. It wouldn't try the 2nd skill. I think we can spare 2 keys for those 2 skills. They make retribution what it is after all.


Zappy just as an FYI, the stamina and strength bonus from sanctuary doesn't stack with kings

Getting BOS means you can't get divine storm. So one of your paladins is out of sync.

[hotbabe]

I had this huge post pre-typed up with per-game analysis of what I did wrong. I did 10 games and while it was compiling I went and fixed some macros and keybinds and a few other small things. Then I went on a mad killing streak and went from 192 to somewhere just shy of 700. I can't believe the difference it made just dicking around with a few commas and such. It totally revitalized my interest in this team.

In any case, here are the links to video post. Comments are welcome but please be constructive. Anything you don't feel comfortable sharing in the open you can PM me--I promise I can keep whatever it is private :) Thanks in advance!

P.S. Video part four got corrupted during the upload. I'll get it posted before tomorrow.

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?p=252682#post252682

^^Link to the movies section. Not sure if this is the best way to post these but I'd prefer to keep the discussion in the pvp forums since they're much more heavily trafficked.

Mosg, I watched your videos and I was wondering how often does your art of war proc on your paladins and do you use it immediatelly when it procs and only those paladins who have it proc-ed will use it or will all paladins start casting Flash?

[Multibocks]

I'm not sure I've seen an armory link posted to your characters, but I know you get "Glyph of Hungering Cold" which removes the runic power requirement:

Glyph of Hungering Cold

One thing I've done a little different on mine is skipping the end talent "Divine Storm" in favor of "Blessing of Sanctuary" for the paladin I've given the devotion talent to. Increased 10% stamina, 10% strength + 3% damage reduction seems nice.

Thinking a little more about the macros, maybe a better option is:

/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Hammer of Justice
/cast [target=arena1,exists,nodead] Repentance

I think if the first one fails due to range, it'll at least try the second one.

It's gonna be sad day for me this week when they finally ding, as right now I'm destroying everything in BGs. :D

Sorry but this is a bad idea, the stamina doesnt stack with kings and 3% damage reduction is no good when people are dying in globals.

[Mosg2]

AoW is basically always up. I'd say every 3-4 seconds on average. It's a lot of throughput for healing but hard to manage with everything else that's going on.

What I've got for CC macros are these two:

/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget1] Repentance,,,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget2] ,Repentance,,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget3] ,,Repentance,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget4] ,,,Repentance

/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget1] Hammer of Justice,,,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget2] ,Hammer of Justice,,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget3] ,,Hammer of Justice,
/castsequence reset=combat/8 [target=arenatarget4] ,,,Hammer of Justice

Of course each toon's macros start with a different amount of commas so that it goes in sequence. What this does is make it so I can spam the button and they'll all just cycle through. My cleanse is setup the same way and it works very well.

[Fat Tire]

AoW is basically always up. I'd say every 3-4 seconds on average. It's a lot of throughput for healing but hard to manage with everything else that's going on.


I really enjoy your videos and the latest ones are fantastic. 1080p very nice!

However, I cringe every time I see you mouse click, even your repeater for healing. Once you get that down to hotkeys and not having to take your eyes off the action to click you will see a huge difference.

[Mosg2]

I'm not sure there's a possible way to make healing macro-based given that you need 5 buttons for it. Open for suggestions.

[Kromtor]

5 buttons for healing, 5 buttons for cleansing
10 necessary buttons to get to 2200

[Mosg2]

I have absolutely no idea how to fit 10 buttons into my current arrangement without getting into shift and alt buttons. I can't imagine compressing the DK buttons into a /click. Hmmmm.

[asonimie]

Ancient peoples call it the "G15"

[Mosg2]

I've looked at the keyboard and I still don't get it. How does 6 extra buttons that you can't hit while your hand rests in its natural position help? It looks to me like you'd have to move your hand over to the G keys and then reseat it when you're done hitting them.

[Coltimar]

The 'good' ones have 18 keys :/ They are very close. I can hit most of them with my pinky, in fact. You learn to orient to them just as you did your home row keys.

[Shodokan]

If you have good PVE gear and can sustain getting into pugs weekly that clear saurfang...

is godlike for your team if they all have it... 15% proc rate is rediculous.

50415

[Fat Tire]

I have absolutely no idea how to fit 10 buttons into my current arrangement without getting into shift and alt buttons. I can't imagine compressing the DK buttons into a /click. Hmmmm.

Might want to think about a game pad?

also might want to go thru you hotkeys and figure out which ones are not that necessary. Maybe putting the ones that you rarly ever use in those shift-alt hotkeys. /shrug

[Seldum]

Footpedals is the way to go :D

I read in this forum about a guy who used this...

[Mosg2]

I'm looking into the Naga. The only negative thing I've heard about it so far is that it's small... But that works since I've got little girly hands.

[Fat Tire]

It is small- I bought it a few weeks back and took it back the next day, ugh.

I take it you use your mouse to IWT? hmmm Have you thought about the NumPad?

[David]

It is small- I bought it a few weeks back and took it back the next day, ugh.

I take it you use your mouse to IWT? hmmm Have you thought about the NumPad?

I allways used numpads to heal and dispel. But since I have to IAWT with my mouse thats no more. Maybe this works great again once I get to do ISboxer and bind the IAWT to my keybinds. Hoping to get a free trail soon :)

[asonimie]

I've looked at the keyboard and I still don't get it. How does 6 extra buttons that you can't hit while your hand rests in its natural position help? It looks to me like you'd have to move your hand over to the G keys and then reseat it when you're done hitting them.

not the new shitty one. The discontinued 18key keyboard, or the new 18key KB w/o LCD. Maybe your hands are ridiculous but my left pinky can hit all of them with little to no movement from home base.

[asonimie]

I'm looking into the Naga. The only negative thing I've heard about it so far is that it's small... But that works since I've got little girly hands.

keep in mind you can't use the Naga buttons for just anything. It only allows you to hit 1-whatever which is bound to an in game bind pad for spells. You can't assign keytstrokes to the naga keys and so it's kinda limited. I remember looking at it too and I wasn't impressed. Maybe theres some prog out there which allows you to freely assign them but i dunno.

[suprafro]

I didn't realize this until today, but apparently Divine Protection (50% all damage reduction) is off GCD (Divine shield is on GCD). I've been using individual castsequences for each toon for divine shield->divine sacrifice, However, if I used divine protection instead of divine shield I could have both occur in the same keystroke greatly simplifying things (its amazing how long 1 global between abilities feels in an arena match), And while that character wouldn't have damage immunity he would still have some pretty steller damage reduction from both divine protection and divine guardian to deal with the incoming damage from div sac...also no 50% damage output reduction pretty is nice

Thoughts?

[Mosg2]

I believe that there's software out now that lets you assign the Naga keys to whatever you want. If not, I'll just have it use the numpad so I have access to my numbers. I'm going to give it a try along with a 12-button G board and see if I can get used to it.

Great idea on the DP. I'm going to have to give it a try and see how it goes.

[suprafro]

Oh something else Mosg, how are you utilizing your DKs defensive cooldowns? Currently I have a button dedicated to this which, basically just attempts to use them all (as they are all off GCD) with AMS ontop. This button is also a castsequence for the paladins to cast hand of sacrifice on the DK...helps alot when teams just FF the DK the entire match. The hand of sacrifice is handy as I usually won't take any real damage and have a need for this button until all of my div sacs are used

[Mosg2]

I have been manually controlling the DKs defensive cooldowns. I'm trying to think of ways to compress stuff like this right now. Currently traveling but on Saturday I'm going to sit down and see what I can do.

[hotbabe]

Mosg, how did you get 5x quel' swords? Did you farm for the battered hilt or buy it?

[Mosg2]

I farmed three and bought two. I spent probably 30-40 hours inside heroic PoS all together.

[Iceorbz]

I farmed three and bought two. I spent probably 30-40 hours inside heroic PoS all together.

damn things are 20k gold on my server :( i cant afford them lol

[Mosg2]

I couldn't spend anymore time inside that dungeon and farming cash was comparably fast.

[Iceorbz]

Im doing each day, got one today was really happy. If I could purchase for about 10k gold or so I would but 20k no way.

[Gares]

Yeah they are like 21k gold on my server too. its retarded

[noidentity]

How do you get your toons to follow and spin around your targets?

[asonimie]

How do you get your toons to follow and spin around your targets?

spy?

[noidentity]

What?

[remanz]

Lol. link your armory multi-boxing team then we will share the secret.

[noidentity]

erm k

http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Grizzly+Hills&gn=Reported
http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Tanaris&gn=Reported

All toons are mine in the guilds, just xfered servers too Grizzly Hills which has my instance team.

[remanz]

Huh. didn't think you were actually gonna do it. lol

Anyway. We've been talking about sharing boxing arena strategies on the boards. Some worries that boxers weakness or tricks might be exposed too much. That's why we were kinda cautious when people come and ask for stuff.

For boxing melee, he used a keybind called "Interact with target". Combined with "click to move" (configured in the mouse section of the interface menu). You can hit this key. Your toon will try to interact with its target. If the target is friendly, it will try to interact (open chat panel etc). If the target is hostile, it will try to melee attack. So in a way, it works like a right click on the target with click to move enabled. Spam this key in combat, your toon will go in circles around the target. Try it out you will see what I mean.

[Iceorbz]

Huh. didn't think you were actually gonna do it. lol

Anyway. We've been talking about sharing boxing arena strategies on the boards. Some worries that boxers weakness or tricks might be exposed too much. That's why we were kinda cautious when people come and ask for stuff.

For boxing melee, he used a keybind called "Interact with target". Combined with "click to move" (configured in the mouse section of the interface menu). You can hit this key. Your toon will try to interact with its target. If the target is friendly, it will try to interact (open chat panel etc). If the target is hostile, it will try to melee attack. So in a way, it works like a right click on the target with click to move enabled. Spam this key in combat, your toon will go in circles around the target. Try it out you will see what I mean.

Its in the works, Nova had some scripting hes working on that would help with verification that the person is a multiboxer he just said it would take him a bit to get it squared away.

[noidentity]

Oh my god thank you, I never knew about that functionality, I cant wait to complete my BoA set on my pally team! :P

Thanks again! I was getting a little paranoid. o.O'

[Fat Tire]

Thanks again! I was getting a little paranoid. o.O'


Then you will feel right at home.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:NXBlUrYnKbTOsM:http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wow.com/media/2007/04/tinfoil_hat.jpg

[Seldum]

I have expirenced that my toons just runs around and around a mob without hitting the mob if I spam IWT.

Do you guys spam this button? or just click it once in a while?

[asonimie]

I spam it. In PVE I tap arrowUp to stop them in place, but in PVP I just spam it. There is a certain speed where I can spam it and my rogues make 90%+ of their hits. I've tested against a dummy to make sure they were keeping up.

If you don't spam fast enough, they will start having large gaps between hits... so try speeding up.