to shield or not to shield ... few pvp questions

[zenga]

So I've been doing AV for 2 days now, think I had about 20 runs. My team is a protection paladin and 4 elemental shamans.

I have actually a few points:

- In normal pve I usually try to aggro as many mobs as i can, drop some magna's, chain lightening and that usually is enough. When I fight 1 single mob, i usually open with light bold and then click my interact with target key so my shammies switch to melee. Therefore I use 2H weapons on them. I can't recall the moment i was in deep trouble in pve (besides instancing).

- Now in AV (so far my only pvp experience) I usually do ranged damage. I don't mind dying at all. It's just that I want to keep my team together. So when I'm engaged in a big fight and I can't keep up with the healing and lose 1-2 guys, I just go suicide to end up with my 5 toons and return stronger. But sometimes it's really a close call. And it's here that I want to improve ...

So would a shield really keep my guys a bit longer alive, even while they are not doing melee damage? And is it worth it to grind for the max 1H axe skill? And while training my 1H skill in normal pve questing, will I be able to keep up with my 2H skill? I've noticed it's really going slower now to max it out per level.

A question related to this: what do you guys do in BG's when you lose a toon or 2? Take a complete or just keep going to the next target with the 3 left overs. My prob is that when I tried to walk my 2 toons back, someone else will whack the other 3 for sure.

And on a final note, it took me quite a while to figure out the spell that made my toons run around like mofo's on speed. Seems to be that I got feared. I can drop a tremor totem, but the problem is that I don't know in advance when it's gonna happen. So whats the best tactic to a/ fight/withstand that and b/ to re-assemble your team.

Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
z

[Bettysue]

I take it you're playing your shamans as enhancement? Most people go for elemental in PvP. It has a ton of burst and allows you to stand a bit outside the "action" and kill people.

If you are set on running enhancement, there is going to be more than a few times where one dies, I usually just run into a big group of people and try to drop as many as I can before they finally wipe me out. This seems to be the best way to get them all back together while not have a guy stand in a GY too long.

If you have more than 1 shaman I would suggest always having at least 1 of them drop a tremor whenever they drop totems. More than 3 of them dropping a totem at the same time and you don't really gain too much more protection. These guys are good to drop the other buff type earth totems.

If you get spread out to different GY's have an auto run key setup on each guy, and just point him in the direction of your group and try to get them to meet up somewhere in the middle. /follow stops the autorun so you can just get near him spam follow a couple times and you're good to go again.

Basically it comes down to a ton of practice and seeing what works for you.

Good luck

[zenga]

Uhm nope, they are elemental (guess you've missed that in the first line). And yeah what you describe is pretty much what I'm doing. I love the suicide and take out as much as possible with me :P

Thanks for the input. But still in doubt about if it's worth to equip a shield for the sole purpose of pvp.

[mrmcgee21]

You shouldnt ever have to melee anything as elemental, the dmg your gaining by focusing on that is a fraction of what you will do just casting spells. You should always use a shield as elemental, unless you simply couldnt find one yet. Mana is almost *never* an issue for elemental either between water shield and thunderstorm. Most of my shamans dont even have over 10 skill in their current weapon if that tells you anything, and I've done basically everything a boxing ele shaman or a normal ele shaman can do right now between pve and pvp.

[Stealthy]

In regard to your ele shams, as MrMcgee said, you definitely need a shield, as this will help a LOT for physical damage mitigation (esp against warriors, rogues, feral druids).


Get your guys Titansteel Guardian (or Spectral Kris from Heroic ToC) and Protective Barricade of the Light and you'll be set.

Cheers,
S.

[Zub]

From what I understand, weapon skill level is not taken into account in PvP

[zenga]

@mrmcgee21

Good info. But my guys are currently 67. Unless I'm doing something wrong, I sill like the 2H weapon in pve. I open with Lightening bolt, and if that doesn't kill the mob I click 'interact with target' and they usually finish the target with 1 melee hit. I have the feeling that if I'd use an earth/frost shock it's a waste of mana. Must admit that this tactic worked better at the earlier levels. Now it's no longer a guarantee 1 hit kill any more. I do realize now that when I encounter high end content that tactic will become obselete and have to stick to casting only.

@Stealthy

Thanks, but will be a while before I'll get those babies :)

And good to know that weapon skill doesn't count for pvp. I'm thinking to dual spec 1 shaman ele/enhancement, so I can use him later on in a melee team for his totems. Need to figure out if he should use a 2H weap in that case or just go DW, but that is stuff for later.

Thanks guy, that answered my questions.

[Iceorbz]

Just say it with me =p. Melee range is *BAD*!

1h shield the whole way if your elemental, nothing should live through 2-3 rounds of lightning bolts and chain lightnings.

[Coltimar]

I dual specc'ed my pally holy for AV grinding. I used my pally to acquire targets then I used healbot to keep my team and others cleansed and healed. I leveled from 65 to 80 this way.

I don't recommend enhancement but if you do you will want to go DW.

[Iceorbz]

From what I understand, weapon skill level is not taken into account in PvP

I dont know, I seem to hit for shit with weapons that I dont have skilled up. I think this is true for druids though. It also affects your crit % to though, so I couldnt imagine it haveing no effect. Ill equip some polearms and see how my dmg is since i have like 100 skill in that lol.

[Naysayer]

not sure if this is a joke topic or not, but if you're serious then lol use a shield.

2hand weapon for elemental? i can only gather that you're either extremely new to WoW, or trollin it up in here.

[shaeman]

He could be using a nice staff for PVE/Instances. He's running with a prot pally so that should be taking the hits most of the time.

[Svpernova09]

weapon skill in PvP is calculated at max for YOUR level. so the misses you see, are RNG. A lot of people say use sheilds, after spending some time in AV on my 3 shaman, i'd have to agree, but remember, you can't block when when you're casting, so your just looking at armor mitigation when you have people on you.

As for getting split up, I just rez the toon I lost, or if I get overrun, I'll take out as many as I can until they've wiped me.

[zenga]

not sure if this is a joke topic or not, but if you're serious then lol use a shield.

2hand weapon for elemental? i can only gather that you're either extremely new to WoW, or trollin it up in here.

Contrary to popular belief, there are still people who are new to WoW :)

I tried to explain my reasoning in my previous post: due to a pve habit that used to work for me.

- blocking is useless while casting like Svpernova09 (http://www.dual-boxing.com/member.php?u=9879) said
- most 2H weaps i've used have increase my critical strike a lot whereas the shields i've used mainly have defensive stats (that is from world pve drops)
- a shield gives me roughly 2-2.5k armor; but a stoneskin totem with the devotion aura has approx the same armor increase.
- I tend to use a 2H axe or a 2H staff when I get one, again most staves i've seen increase my spell stats more than the shield does

So actually I was not trolling but just asking how to improve my build :) And yeah I will use a shield in pvp/harder pve fights in combination with the stoneskin totem and devotion aura (which should give me 4-5k extra armor) from now on. But I 'll stick to my staves in pve until i find a shield that can replace the spell stats.

Thanks all for the info.

[Svpernova09]

Contrary to popular belief, there are still people who are new to WoW :)

I tried to explain my reasoning in my previous post: due to a pve habit that used to work for me.

- blocking is useless while casting like Svpernova09 (http://www.dual-boxing.com/member.php?u=9879) said
- most 2H weaps i've used have increase my critical strike a lot whereas the shields i've used mainly have defensive stats (that is from world pve drops)
- a shield gives me roughly 2-2.5k armor; but a stoneskin totem with the devotion aura has approx the same armor increase.
- I tend to use a 2H axe or a 2H staff when I get one, again most staves i've seen increase my spell stats more than the shield does

So actually I was not trolling but just asking how to improve my build :) And yeah I will use a shield in pvp/harder pve fights in combination with the stoneskin totem and devotion aura (which should give me 4-5k extra armor) from now on. But I 'll stick to my staves in pve until i find a shield that can replace the spell stats.

Thanks all for the info.


The thing to be aware of is that most shields are going to be mp5 (resto) which is pretty reasonable in PvP. especially once you get some gear and start seeing the only time you wipe is when you go oom, or get overrun. The other thing is, there aren't any 2H axes for casters so if you are using a 2h for Crit, you're losing out on a lot of other stats. Staves are nice, but you'll usually far better with mace / dagger + oh for DPS since you'll usually see more crit / sp this way. I'm not saying shields are wrong, I think shields or MH/OH are both fine so long as you're seeing the differences each bring.

[Whowantstoknow]

While levelling just go for the highest spell power 2H or MH/OH combo you can find. As a shaman you will never use a 2H in end game in any spec. You do want to get out of the habit of Meleeing though as increasingly you will hit like a wet noodle and it is not worth it.

At 80:
Advantages of MH/OH combo is more spell power. In PvP you will almost certainly use a shield, in PvE it matters less as the only shield enchant that increases dps is a poor dps boost - if you dont raid the chances are you will end up not using a shield as there are no decent non raid PvE shields for an elemental shaman.

[Naysayer]

Contrary to popular belief, there are still people who are new to WoW :)

I tried to explain my reasoning in my previous post: due to a pve habit that used to work for me.

- blocking is useless while casting like Svpernova09 (http://www.dual-boxing.com/member.php?u=9879) said
- most 2H weaps i've used have increase my critical strike a lot whereas the shields i've used mainly have defensive stats (that is from world pve drops)
- a shield gives me roughly 2-2.5k armor; but a stoneskin totem with the devotion aura has approx the same armor increase.
- I tend to use a 2H axe or a 2H staff when I get one, again most staves i've seen increase my spell stats more than the shield does

So actually I was not trolling but just asking how to improve my build :) And yeah I will use a shield in pvp/harder pve fights in combination with the stoneskin totem and devotion aura (which should give me 4-5k extra armor) from now on. But I 'll stick to my staves in pve until i find a shield that can replace the spell stats.

Thanks all for the info.

-you don't use a shield for the blocking on elemental shaman
-shields have better caster stats than 2hnders, try looking around at some caster shields
-shields at lvl 80 have around 7000 to 8000 armor... annnnnnd you can also use stoneskin/devotion with them too...
-staves suck for melee and are only tolerated by classes that can't use shields.

do you know how much melee damage you mitigate with 8k armor?

[zenga]

-you don't use a shield for the blocking on elemental shaman
-shields have better caster stats than 2hnders, try looking around at some caster shields
-shields at lvl 80 have around 7000 to 8000 armor... annnnnnd you can also use stoneskin/devotion with them too...
-staves suck for melee and are only tolerated by classes that can't use shields.

do you know how much melee damage you mitigate with 8k armor?

I don't argue about that, I only tried to explain *why* I asked that question (as you were thinking I was trolling). And that was mainly based on stuff I had seen on my level. There are so many armor pieces that it's overwhelming for a beginning player to draw the right conclusion. Not to mention that there are quite a bunch of opposing opinions out there from seasoned players when googling.

Anyway, so I got me a shield for each shaman and a 1H weapon. And made sure I had the AC buffs on. Did 4 more AV's with it. Died 1-2 times max per run. My total damage done increased a lot. So definitely a win.

I kept the shield on for questing as well. Feels like I killer slower, but thats just a temporary thing. While I'll stop using the melee tactic on my shamans, I decided to just use the stuff that max out my dps stats wise. Depending on what is available at my respective level.

Conclusion: I was in doubt, asked what to do, followed the advice and made my toons better. No trolling, just using the forum.

Thanks again :)

[Naysayer]

You're close enough to starting northrend quests that reward a lot of good spellcasting one-handers and a few shields, you'll see a jump in all item spell damage and armor on shields.

For pvp you want to follow a simple guide for choosing gear. Most level 70-79 leveling pvp elemental shaman prioritize stats like this.

spellpower>stamina>intellect>crit>everything else


Most level 70-79 leveling pve elemental shaman prioritize stats like this.

spellpower>intellect>crit>hit>everything else


Since you're new, I'll point you towards www.wowhead.com which is pretty much the library for all things wow. This way you can look for and find out how to get items you want making it a little less overwhelming.

[Iceorbz]

You're close enough to starting northrend quests that reward a lot of good spellcasting one-handers and a few shields, you'll see a jump in all item spell damage and armor on shields.

For pvp you want to follow a simple guide for choosing gear. Most level 70-79 leveling pvp elemental shaman prioritize stats like this.

spellpower>stamina>intellect>crit>everything else


Most level 70-79 leveling pve elemental shaman prioritize stats like this.

spellpower>intellect>crit>hit>everything else


Since you're new, I'll point you towards www.wowhead.com (http://www.wowhead.com) which is pretty much the library for all things wow. This way you can look for and find out how to get items you want making it a little less overwhelming.

I still go for hit leveling up, so I can hit those npc's higher then me lol. I never prioritize crit especially with 4 shaman. It dies in one hit normally anyways =p.