Got an idea, need suggestion or advice

[Prepared]

Some of you know that I'm working on a bunch of shamans and a mixed team of classes. An issue that I've run into while boxing a lot of characters has been that during a big battle, all characters can get disconnected at the same time. This happens more often at about 40 characters at the same time. I've dropped down to trying to box 36, then trying 30, but it can still happen usually during Wintergrasp when there are a lot of players around casting various spells, etc. Now keep in mind, I have all my graphics turned down for all of my instances across all of my computers. I'm not running anything I don't need outside of the game. I'm using only 3 AddOns along with Octopus 1.3.2.

My idea is to have multiple Internet cable services to my house. This would allow me to use a router for each Internet Service Provider. The major issue I see with this, other than it costs more, is that the machines connected to each router would only know about the IP addresses of the machines on that network. So Octopus wouldn't be able to connect to the machines on a different router that is connected to the other service provider. In solving that, I would think a 2nd network card in each machine would allow connectivity to all machines so that Octopus would be able to connect to all machines. The other way would be to have a wireless router that would allow connectivity to all machines while the network card in each machine controls how they would connect to the Internet through the router used for the service provider they are attached to.

If anyone has any other ideas, suggestions or constructive comments, please post.


Thanks
Prepared (multiboxer of some Horde characters on Aegwynn)

[algol]

I am not a network administrator, but it sounds like a subnet problem.

Alternately, couldn't you just set the gateway IP differently for each group? I have, dunno, probably three routers working on my home network at any given time. They don't fight, or at least they don't anymore - it's a configuration issue, not an insurmountable one. You connect all three ISP gateway devices to the same network and use an additional hub / router (or more) to connect everything. Each then has an IP on your LAN, and a computer will connect to the internet through whichever you give it an IP for.

[mooglej]

I never used octopus so I haven't really kept up with its configuration methods. But you could buy 2 commercial routers, Linksys dlink etc, and configure 1 with a private ip of "192.168.1.1" and the second as "192.168.2.1". And on each of those, configure a static route so A will connect to B, and B will connect to A. They are very easy to configure.

The other problem with your trying to do, if you configure it like this where router A is on a Billy bob's cable connection, and router B is on Joe Smoe's DSL, both ISP networks will use a common routing protocol called OSPF (Open shortest path first). If both ISP networks are configured, chances are you will end up using only 1 connection to send and receive to the source destination IP address, no matter how many connections from your home network you provide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Shortest_Path_First

A way around this would keep your 2 networks apart from each other, but can octopus send key information over the internet, or does it require private networks? If it could then you'll have to configure port forwarding information on your 2 routers.

Never use wireless, hubs, or commercial Linksys dlink etc workgroup switches for the ammount of devices your are talking about. These devices share throughput across it's connections limiting your further. But chances are your bottle neck would lie in your connection out vs. your home network. You can call your ISP and usually "upgrade" your bandwidth. Unless your on a DSL connection, then your pretty limited based on your location. Moving from a residential packages to a more business package.



Hope this helped you some.

[Sam DeathWalker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-homed

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/157025

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&num=100&newwindow=1&q=Multi-homed&lr=


I dont know for sure but MAYBE get two seperate 1G switches, connect together for a lan. Have output of each switch also go to a seperate router and the routers to the internets. 2 switches and 2 routers needed. Otherwise there are products with two wan ports (not cheap).

You have 40 accounts that you run seperatly now?

You might also talk to Blizzard if they send to much information to a single IP they might think its a farm or something and have some auto shut down, tell them whats up.

[mikekim]

algol is correct.. All you need to do is have the multiple connections on the same subnet, disable DHCP on the routers and assign static IP and DNS to each computer, pointing each relevant PC's gateway to the router you want to use for your outbound connection. I have used this method for A gaming suite in a hotel room where we had 12 PC's and 3x 8mb ADSL connections. Having different gateways is only an issue if you are trying to talk to machines on different subnets (as they will all be on the same network range this works really well for programs like ocotopus/keyclone.HKN).

I have attached a quick diagram to show what i mean. DHCP is enabled on router 1 to allow for other machines to connect to the network and still access the internet (ie laptops)

any probs give me a shout

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2051/29305444.jpg

[Sam DeathWalker]

Well ya that seems a lot cheaper then my suggestions .....

[Enndo]

Dunno if you have cablevision in your area but right now they are offering 100mbps down and 50mbps up for $110 you might wanna look into that and use one high speed switch with it.

[Owltoid]

I'm a bit out of my league here, but you could use HKN as your key broadcasting program. It will work on "remote" computers through using IP addresses.

[CommanderChaos]

The main thing you have to remember is that you have to have a router that is intelligent enough to know when one of your routes to the internet is down. This is the key. As Mooglej suggested, this could be accomplished with the help of your ISPs (if they are small enough to care ;) This may be costly even if they are willing to do a special setup for you, but frankly, most common providers won't even have the capability to provide an OSPF setup like that using standard DSL installed equipment. They'd need to have some expensive hardware at your home that terminates each of your even more expensive connections (think T1, if you know what I mean).



You should look into setting up a PC specifically for routing, using something like m0n0wall or pfsense. You'll need to set up this router between your game machines and your multiple ISP connections. The router needs to have code running to keep track of which routes are up, and you'll be good to go.

[warwizard]

Can you list your current network setup?

[daviddoran]

I think the best method method is the one that was posted earlier about setting up multiple routers, with DHCP disabled on all but one, and assign IP and DNS to each workstation and point the gateways to spread the pcs around.

Or maybe a dual wan load balancing router?

[Sam DeathWalker]

If all are going out at the same time its not bandwidth its cause to much data is going to a single ip and Blizzard software is auto disconnecting him. If I try and log in with all at the same time that sometimes occurs to me.

I would think with even the most modest internet connection 40 wow's can't saturate your bandwidth, and if that were the case not all would disconnect at the same time, also I think he would go AFK for awhile before the disconnect. I have to hit a "move forward" key on my guys when they go afk (and they do all the time even during battles cause they are always auto follow).

Maybe you can just put a short time (like 5 minutes) on your router to change dynamic IP address ... not sure if thats a good idea though.

[mikekim]

The main thing you have to remember is that you have to have a router that is intelligent enough to know when one of your routes to the internet is down. This is the key. As Mooglej suggested, this could be accomplished with the help of your ISPs (if they are small enough to care ;) This may be costly even if they are willing to do a special setup for you, but frankly, most common providers won't even have the capability to provide an OSPF setup like that using standard DSL installed equipment. They'd need to have some expensive hardware at your home that terminates each of your even more expensive connections (think T1, if you know what I mean).

You should look into setting up a PC specifically for routing, using something like m0n0wall or pfsense. You'll need to set up this router between your game machines and your multiple ISP connections. The router needs to have code running to keep track of which routes are up, and you'll be good to go.

We use Zyxel ADSl routers at work and they have a backup IP option that we use in multiple router setups to point to the second or third connection that is only used if the primary connection goes down. In extreme cases we have even pointed this to a 3G router (mobile data connection) when the backup DSl was on the same telehphone exchange and would potentially be affected if the primary went down to an exchange fault.

[Darelik]

Some of you know that I'm working on a bunch of shamans and a mixed team of classes. An issue that I've run into while boxing a lot of characters has been that during a big battle, all characters can get disconnected at the same time. This happens more often at about 40 characters at the same time. I've dropped down to trying to box 36, then trying 30, but it can still happen usually during Wintergrasp when there are a lot of players around casting various spells, etc. Now keep in mind, I have all my graphics turned down for all of my instances across all of my computers. I'm not running anything I don't need outside of the game. I'm using only 3 AddOns along with Octopus 1.3.2.
does this happen only in wg? random disconnects to a character or two is fine. sometimes i think it's blizz's way of "checking" up on multiboxers?
if it doesn't only happen in wg, then why would this happen to you when "internet cafe's"/public internet access or probly also in bigger LAN parties can run with quite a few people of the same faction connected to the same server all at the same time?
maybe a stab in the dark: group your pc's into perhaps 5 or 10 each group and try changing each group's network card's setting to get the dns servers to point to different ones.
other than that, i got nothing else as my networking know-how arsenal is shallow.
if it is an issue with blizzard's wg server not 'liking' multiple wow connections originating from a single IP source, then it's a problem with their policy/architecture and brought forward to their devs?
u r Prepared! u could use the rep to your advantage :)

[algol]

If all are going out at the same time its not bandwidth its cause to much data is going to a single ip and Blizzard software is auto disconnecting him.

What basis do you have for believing that this is the case?



We use Zyxel ADSl routers at work and they have a backup IP option that we use in multiple router setups to point to the second or third connection that is only used if the primary connection goes down. In extreme cases we have even pointed this to a 3G router (mobile data connection) when the backup DSl was on the same telehphone exchange and would potentially be affected if the primary went down to an exchange fault.

This works for web browsing, probably wouldn't work for gaming.

[Caspian]

I think we are not 100% sure why he is actually being disconnected.

The network diagram that Mikekim did is exactly what I would do.

Sam's point of talking to Blizzard is also good. Their tech support is usually pretty good and most of them would probably geek out at trying to find a solution for you. I know I would.

Email: wowtech@blizzard.com
macsupport@blizzard.com

Phone: 1-949-955-1382
Hours: 8AM – 8PM Pacific Time, Monday through Friday (excluding US holidays)

[Gadzooks]

Doesnt Comcast have a new plan where they combine several cable routers into one connection? (=They have a term for it, can't think of it right now, I was reading about it on DSLReports.

FYI, I don't recommend Comcast. I despise them, but they're the only service here where I live, and we're looking at 2012 for FIOS. My connection resets at least once a day, and stalls constantly, usually while I'm on WoW, or watching a streaming movie from Netflix. The TV stalls constantly, too. Numerous calls to "support" (lovely sense of humor they have there) is usually wait 45 minutes on hold, spend 20 minutes telling the guy or gal I don't have a Start menu (I have a Mac), get transferred to someone who can work without a script and can understand me (No hate for foreigners, but the language gap is rough for technical problems), to be told "if it's still doing it in 24 hours call back".

Sigh.

Sorry. Cable providers are a sore spot with me. Here in the SF Bay Area, where we should have great service, we have the *worst* service. My brother in Alaska gets a more reliable and stable connection than I do - and cheaper!

[Sam DeathWalker]

What basis do you have for believing that this is the case?

Cause you don't exceed bandwidtih on all at the same time. Some would still be logged in, if your pipe is 100 and you have 12 that each use 10 then 2 would go out but the other 10 still be ok. So if all are disconnecting at the same time I would assume its Blizzard, which must have such protection for DoS attacks and to stop 60 box gold farmers.

[algol]

Doesnt Comcast have a new plan where they combine several cable routers into one connection?

It's called bridging. What they call it...who knows?

[mikekim]

In the UK its called bonded DSL and you can link up to 3 ASDL connections into one pipe

[glo]

It's not really all that complicated to add a second gateway and set a portion of your machines to use that while maintaining your internal network. The problem is you are probably going to have to sign a contract to even try to see if this fixes your problem.

Do we have anyone 20+ boxing in WG that can offer some insight? I would definitely try to get in touch with a geek at tech support, I'm sure there are a few of them that know exactly what is causing your problem.

I don't think blizzard has anything on the servers to disconnect you if there are many clients connected from the same location or net cafes and gaming centers would be screwed. I'm inclined to think this is some sort of DoS protection built in by your isp. In WG with that many clients going from one IP all those packets may very well look like an attack. If I couldn't find a knowledgeable person at blizzard tech support right away I would call the isp and try to recreate the disconnect with them looking at your connection, might even try that first.

[zanthor]

Keep in mind multiple connections from the same cable internet provider == one connection from same provider - cable is a shared medium.

Now if you can throw a couple different DSL providers in the mix you have a good chance of success.

As for the actually configuration - you can either go with dual NIC's in each (one on an private LAN and one connected the the appropriate broadband) or you can go static IP's and split up your gateways...

[Prepared]

algol is correct.. All you need to do is have the multiple connections on the same subnet, disable DHCP on the routers and assign static IP and DNS to each computer, pointing each relevant PC's gateway to the router you want to use for your outbound connection. I have used this method for A gaming suite in a hotel room where we had 12 PC's and 3x 8mb ADSL connections. Having different gateways is only an issue if you are trying to talk to machines on different subnets (as they will all be on the same network range this works really well for programs like ocotopus/keyclone.HKN).

I have attached a quick diagram to show what i mean. DHCP is enabled on router 1 to allow for other machines to connect to the network and still access the internet (ie laptops)

any probs give me a shout

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2051/29305444.jpg

This is awesome. Thanks! It makes sense and is the lowest cost option.