Mana Spring Totem and Healing Stream Totem possibly not merging!

[Chranny]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/chranny/notstacking.jpg
Source ('http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/15443533071-are-the-healing-and-mana-totem-still-merging.html')

Shame. :( Wonder what the other idea is. *cough*ARipoffReplenishment?*cough*

[Zal]

*Mana spring totem is being removed from game - Mana tide totem however it will now restore double its old amount and is now a 51 point talent.*
Entering combat: Wall of angry shaman text.
You have died.

[Chranny]

*Mana spring totem is being removed from game - Mana tide totem however it will now restore double its old amount and is now a 51 point talent.*
Entering combat: Wall of angry shaman text.
You have died.I could see it happening. :P

[EaTCarbS]

*Mana spring totem is being removed from game - Mana tide totem however it will now restore double its old amount and is now a 51 point talent.*
Entering combat: Wall of angry shaman text.
You have died.Scary
*Shudders*

[Gomotron]

Personally, I don't mind the non-union of totems for all Shaman, seems OP.

However, I think it ought to be available in the Resto tree as a Talent. I think it fills in nicely with what Resto Shaman are about.

[blast3r]

Can we just have a 'totem hat'? Kinda like a beer hat cept it has a totem on it. :)

[mmcookies]

Can we just have a 'totem hat'? Kinda like a beer hat cept it has a totem on it. :)

Requesting concept drawing, or perhaps shooped photo.

[Zzc2]

More mana totem nerfs!!!


We are making a change to these spells so that their
benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent,
but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid
instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and
shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have
been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were
concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially
shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to
get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring
previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is
only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the
shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second
offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or
cleansing with their water totem instead. link ('http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=8246458840&sid=1')

So now it looks like mana spring is COMPLETELY useless. With mana spring always needing to be recast, and the pally buff lasting 30 minutes everywhere while MOVING, looks like this totem gets nerfed to the ground!

[zanthor]

The only totem change I really care about is that I want to be able to DESTROY my damn totems.

Ya know, the 4 bank slots that are replaced by the totem I have equiped on my paperdoll?

[Bigfish]

We're seeing a lot of Mana-regen issues being re-worked this patch...

[Lyonheart]

I don't think what they are doing is smart, from a business perspective. I would really love to see how many actual multi-boxers there are, and how many are shaman teams. There was nothing "bad" about how they worked before. Totem stacking was only "OP" somewhat when multiboxing. But if they continue to nerf the effectiveness of shaman teams, I'm sure its going to cost them a lot of money. But I'm sure they don't care with the millions they make every month.

You would think they do care about money, I mean they are always coming up with new ways to bring in extra profit like RaF, paid char moves, name changes ect. Oh well 8\

[BigSmitty]

If thats not a DIRECT slam at multiboxers, I don't know what it.

They are outright attacking the Paladin / Shaman synergy. Mana Spring and Wisdom now share the same "buff" slot?

Sad day.That's the first thing I thought of when I read the news on the paladin/shaman buffs being exclusive of each other. Just wait until they drop the 13% spell damage modifier from DKs Ebon Plaguebringer... and they will have made our lives THAT much more enjoyable.

[Redbeard]

Theyve been removing stacking for a while now, i think suggesting that anything beyond messing with /follow would be a nerf to MBers is a little /tinfoil hat to me, but thats my opinion...

im more upset by the fact that they teased us with "we might merge healing stream and mana spring together" and then instead of that fun buff they instead nerfed them through this stacking block. Im cool wtih the change, just still merge it with healing stream please.

[Dominian]

Tbh mana regen have been out of control for way to long, before tbc people actually took a look on theyr mana bars and healed smarter.

Blizzard have to take most of the blame thought.

Taking away downranking most likley killed most of the uniqe ways of healing.

Now EVERYONE use the same spec,rotation,buffs,gear,talents.

Everything that once were uniqe is now gone.

WOW you finally got that deadly gladiator pice, well grats there are 200k others who got it just the same way. Same spec,rotation,buffs,gear,talents and even the same class for arena partner. Even they share the same spec etc etc etc...

[puppychow]

Huge nerf to tank+4shaman PVE teams, healing stream totem was a massive pulsing heal (700-1k hp/tick dep on glyphs etc), it'll drop down to 200 hp/tick which sucks.

Also mana regen in combat and ooc get nerfed in 3.1, so don't be too sure about "lol i never run out of mana", you may in 3.1...

3.1 so far feels like a downer of a patch, every class almost is getting nerfed or mechanics changed to make it slightly more unfun. Ulduar is also crazy hard so far, the first fight alone is a really fun but difficult vehicle combat fight (done it on PTR, gonna be insane to try and multibox). The sixth boss is just nuts, two hands and a body and the boss hits for 20-30k a swing on 40k hp tanks.

[Redbeard]

You're freaking me out, whats the healing stream nerf? I mustve missed something? As far as I can tell that just says that mana spring wont stack with BOW, doesnt mention healing stream does it?
Huge nerf to tank+4shaman PVE teams, healing stream totem was a massive pulsing heal (700-1k hp/tick dep on glyphs etc), it'll drop down to 200 hp/tick which sucks.

[Nisch]

This is why I have 5 of every class type. When they nerf me, I just move onto the next.

Although, I never have been very intersted in my Shaman team. Not sure why........they just don't seem as much fun as my DK's or pallies.

[Jubber]

The only totem change I really care about is that I want to be able to DESTROY my damn totems.

Ya know, the 4 bank slots that are replaced by the totem I have equiped on my paperdoll?Why can't you destroy totems if you have a relic equipped?

[Multibocks]

They are protected from destroying, but should no longer be that way. Something they havent bothered to revisit.

[Jubber]

oh ok.. lol I guess I didn't ever recall keeping them in my bank.. will have to go take a look. it's been a while since I played my shaman team. I used to hate carrying them in my bags until I got my first relic. Then it was nice to get rid of them. lol. Guess they probably are still in my bank.

[Ualaa]

If we eventually reach the point where you can have a maximum of one healing totem and one mana totem, before the other totems are redundant (give a non-stacking benefit), will it become advantageous to move more towards a mixed team.

Tremor seems to pulse on the server clock, regardless of when my team drops the totems.
That is primarily the earth totem I use. Occasionally earthbind too, probably more so if I pvp'd more.
If I add a tank to the mix then Strength of Earth would be one additional useful earth totem.
Even still Tremor + Strength of Earth, two shamans could provide the earth power you'd desire.

For water totems, I go exclusively all health in instances and all mana elsewhere.
Dropping the cure totem as necessary, generally on the active shaman only.
Two shaman's would essentially cover all the water totems that you'd use on a regular basis.

Air totems are usually grounding on all shaman's, but occasionally the wrath of air.
Since each totem protects against a single spell, they effectively stack. The more shammies the more useful air is.

Fire totems still stack nicely with more shamans. You'd only want a single Totem of Wrath.
But searing, magma and fire elementals are extra damage the more shaman's you have in a given composition.



So basically we have Fire - 5 Shammies, Water - 2 Shammies, Air - 5 Shammies, Earth - 2 Shammies, to cover the totem drops which are always useful.
Sure you can argue for Healing Stream + Mana Spring + Disease Cleansing + Poison Cleansing + Fire Resistance for 5 useful water totems.
How often do you drop Disease Cleansing when fighting against non-diseasing animals? I'd say beyond Health/Mana, the others are situational - at least for me.

More then two shammies provides protection from casters and additional aoe.
Going with two different dps, in addition to two shammies as the caster component of a team can add more potentially.
Especially with changes to totems.

I haven't decided what to do with my teams yet.
Basically was working on 4x Elemental Shaman + 1x Prot Paladin & 4x Boomkin Druids + 1x Death Knight.
With a fifth elemental shaman as my raiding toon, who could substitute in for the paladin for battlegrounds.

If my primary team moved from 4x shaman + 1x paladin towards say...
1x paladin tank, 1x discipline healer, 2x Elem. Shaman and maybe 1x Boomkin...
Would the gains of AoE healing (Fort buff), Druid providing (MotW) and dps etc balance against loss of additional fire/air totems, given the water/earth are covered already?
Not really sure yet.

[Perrigrin]

Mmm, I'm getting more and more motivated to level up my druid/priest/mage to swap to a mixed team ...

[Catamer]

a non stacking mana totem is essentially less than completely worthless.
a non stacking healing stream totem would also be worthless.

i mean get real, 33 mana per tick on players that have close to a 15k mana pool is NOTHING, it only became something when you had 4 or 5 of them down.

[shaeman]

Surely you can test the impact of this now to see exactly how you'll be effected.
Have only one shaman drop mana spring when you do your normal instance runs.

At least this way you will know one way or the other whether your team is still viable as is or if you need to look at alternatives
to improve your mana pool, enchants, mana pots etc.

You might just have to tweak casting rotations. So you dont go for max dps - just balance the dps needed to kill the boss with mana usage.

[Taliesin]

a non stacking mana totem is essentially less than completely worthless.
a non stacking healing stream totem would also be worthless.

i mean get real, 33 mana per tick on players that have close to a 15k mana pool is NOTHING, it only became something when you had 4 or 5 of them down

Can't say I agree with your sentiments. 33 mp5 on a priest (mixed quest/heroic geared) with about 200-250 mp5 while casting is a pretty significant increase. A 13-16% increase. I definitely wouldn't call a 13% damage increase "nothing", as a comparison. In heroics, the totem might not be that big of a deal just because the fights should not be taking that long to run the risk of running out of mana. But longer, and healing intensive fights, like Naxx can really put a strain on mana pools. Sure, they currently have 600-700 mp5 while not casting, but that assumes you'll have frequent non-casting periods, which is true for some, but not all fights.

Also keep in mind that mana regen across the board is effectively being targetted by Blizzard in 3.1 for reductions. The totem may not sound like much now, but I think I'm going to appreciate it a whole lot more once spirit gets nerfed on priests. The longer fights are what Blizzard is worrying about. I'm sure this has something to do with all the elite guilds complaining that the game was "easy mode" right now.

Just using priests as one example, as shamans already have intense mp5 while casting, even without totems. If you're just thinking from a shaman standpoint, then I agree that mp5 is hardly even a concern right now.

[Sydwayz]

i dont understand how we can compare a stationary buff that needs to be put down for every fight to a buff that can be applied on the go and remains on the player until purged (which will only be in pvp) or it wears off after 30min. I thought blizzard was try to make shamans totems more useful. It just doesn't make sense. We will just have to wait and see what they do for Shamans in 3.1.

Elemental Shamans in PvP
We are going to implement our Elemental PvP mechanic next build. I'm not sure it will solve every concern you have, but we think it's cool.

[Gares]

This pretty much nerfs any 4X+ Shaman PVE teams into the ground

[Lance]

This pretty much nerfs any 4X+ Shaman PVE teams into the groundSlight overstatement :)

[Redbeard]

I was under the impression that on live right now mana spring didnt stack, only healing stream. Guess I was wrong.

Personally Im fine with the change but for the love of good please combine it with healing stream and get rid of that horrible Restorative totems talent (reduce talent cost pls).

Im OK with them removing stacking as long as they buff the abilities that theyre nerfing. We'lll see if that happens.

[Shokz]

I was under the impression that on live right now mana spring didnt stack, only healing stream. Guess I was wrong.

Personally Im fine with the change but for the love of good please combine it with healing stream and get rid of that horrible Restorative totems talent (reduce talent cost pls).

Im OK with them removing stacking as long as they buff the abilities that theyre nerfing. We'lll see if that happens.Wait, so healing stream doesnt stack either?

EDIT: Lol half asleep missed the *on live* part, thought he was talking about ptr almost had heart failure.

[Multibocks]

Someone needs to test it on the PTR, but currently on live healing stream and mana totems stack. Just an FYI, my paladin, 4 shaman team was fine with one mana stream down, but that was WITH blessing of wisdom. Without BoW I would need to get 90+mp5 from somewhere else to prevent me from having to drink while running dungeons.

[Lance]

Someone needs to test it on the PTR, but currently on live healing stream and mana totems stack. Just an FYI, my paladin, 4 shaman team was fine with one mana stream down, but that was WITH blessing of wisdom. Without BoW I would need to get 90+mp5 from somewhere else to prevent me from having to drink while running dungeons.If you have a pally tank the changes to bok will help a bit. I thot you quit anyways so I can't see it affecting you that much :)

[Gares]

This pretty much nerfs any 4X+ Shaman PVE teams into the groundSlight overstatement :)

I don't think so. My ability to say do timed COS runs for drakes (Thank god I'm done) was pretty much on the fact that I could stack mana totems with a DK Tank with Unholy Aura. Now with the changes I MIGHT be able to do it with my pally tank with the changes but I doubt it.

As for the AOE (Shaman's are still the worst AOE class out there).

The healing stream/tremors/groundings are still nice but almost always depend on the situation. Maybe I'm spoiled by having a resto shammy I don't know, but I almost always used mana spring stacking over healing stream stacking.

The only thing I can see this really doing is forcing people to spec one resto and go for the mana tide totem every cooldown. Actually having to stop and drink every few pulls (which sucks), or blowing their TS cooldown every 45 seconds regardless of if they need to just for the mana back.

In any event its not a nice change to see.

EDIT: This is all from a boxing perspective of course. For solo these changes don't affect anything really.