10 boxing - group theorycrafting thread

[noir]

TankSpot folks seem to do it fine. And I've done KZ with a guildy's Fury war on OT duty, zero problems. And yeah, he's OP -- BoJ fists and a be.imba.hu of 227+ (Sunwell level).

[Suvega]

My conclusion from seeing 10 mans, and doing them with vyndree is:

Most viable tank - Paladin
HOWEVER, you ahve to wait until he is -really- overgeared. Otherwise threat/mitigation/mana issues will arise from tanking mobs that were intended to be cc'ed.

Second most viable - Druid
Less buttons, good threat and avoidance given on par gear with instance

Least viable - War
MICRO MANAGEMENT HELL - however can deal w many diff issues if you're pro. (like me )

[Schwarz]

Totem of wrath talk time. There is no way in hell this is going to transfer to a stackable raid buff. I would hate to go 7 shamen and 3 pallys and have them nerf the crap out of totem of wrath. Already have 5 shamen what is next?

Also something to think about. Only reason 5 shamen can do some heroics is beacuse of the earth ele's. Unless they give us an upgraded totem pet this could change in WOTLK.

What other classes will give good buffs to other classes. From wow wiki

Druid:

* Mark of the Wild/Gift of the Wild - armor, all attributes, and resistances for target/target's party
* Thorns - reflective damage for target
* Innervate - massive short term mana regeneration for target

Hunter:

* Aspect of the Pack - run speed for party
* Aspect of the Wild - nature resistance for party
* Trueshot Aura - attack power for party
* Wolf
o Furious Howl - short term damage increase for party

Mage:

* Arcane Intellect/Arcane Brilliance - intellect for target/target's party
* Amplify Magic - increased incoming spell damage and healing for target
* Dampen Magic - decreased incoming spell damage and healing for target

Paladin:

* Auras - Auras affect the Paladin's party
o Devotion Aura - armor
o Retribution Aura - reflective damage
o Concentration Aura - reduced spell interruption from damage. With improvement from talent: reduced duration of silence
o Sanctity Aura - increase holy damage. With improvement from talent: slight increase of all damage
o Shadow Resistance Aura - shadow resistance
o Frost Resistance Aura - frost resistance
o Fire Resistance Aura - fire resistance
o Crusader Aura - increase mount speed
* Blessings - Blessings affect single targets, while greater blessings affect the target's class in party/raid
o Blessing of Might/Greater Blessing of Might - attack power
o Blessing of Wisdom/Greater Blessing of Wisdom - mana regeneration
o Blessing of Kings/Greater Blessing of Kings - all attributes
o Blessing of Salvation/Greater Blessing of Salvation - threat reduction
o Blessing of Sanctuary/Greater Blessing of Sanctuary - incoming damage reduction and reflective damage
o Blessing of Protection - short term immune to physical damage; temporarily removed from aggro list; remove all pre-existing bleeding effects
o Blessing of Freedom - short term free movement; remove all pre-existing snare effects
o Blessing of Sacrifice - short term damage transfer from target

Priest:

* Power Word: Fortitude/Prayer of Fortitude - stamina for target/target's party
* Power Word: Shield - short term damage absorption for target in Priest's party
* Power Infusion - short term increase in spell damage and healing for target
* Divine Spirit/Prayer of Spirit - spirit for target/target's party
* Shadow Protection/Prayer of Shadow Protection - shadow resistance for target/target's party

Rogue: rogues have no buff for party members.

Shaman:

* Earth Shield - healing and reduced spell interruption from damage for target
* Water Breathing - target can breathe under water
* Water Walking - target can walk on water
* Totems - Most totems affect the Shaman's party and last 1 or 2 minutes
o Strength of Earth Totem - strength
o Grace of Air Totem - agility
o Fire Resistance Totem - fire resistance
o Frost Resistance Totem - frost resistance
o Nature Resistance Totem - nature resistance
o Windfury Totem - chance of extra attack
o Flametongue Totem - additional fire damage
o Stoneskin Totem - incoming melee damage reduction
o Mana Spring Totem - mana regeneration
o Mana Tide Totem - short term mana regeneration
o Totem of Wrath - spell hit and crit chance
o Healing Stream Totem - heals party
o Windwall Totem - incoming ranged damage reduction
o Tranquil Air Totem - threat reduction
o Wrath of Air Totem - spell damage and healing

Warlock:

* Unending Breath - underwater breathing for target
* Detect Invisibility - increase detection of invisibility for target
* Imp
o Blood Pact - stamina for Warlock's party
o Fire Shield - reflective damage for Warlock's party
* Felhunter
o Paranoia - increase stealth detection for Warlock's party


So I guess the idea is what combination would possibly give the best buffs/chance of clearing 10 man content in WOTLK

[Stabface]

As long as you have 2+ mobs and can single-tank/heal stuff, then tank/heal and 8 Warlocks?

Seed of Corruption with +1K damage = ~2300 damage AoE. If you have no spell haste, that's 9200 raid DPS to EACH secondary target! The AoE damage cap limits you to ~55K (lol wut??) raid DPS assuming no haste or crit.

Anyone got stats on the new ranks of SoC in WotLK ?

[Bena]

SoC is a threat magnet.. if you're going to cast it make sure that by the time you're done casting everything is dead. Otherwise the locks will die as soon as first SoCs go off... sad SM experience here... ;(

As long as you have 2+ mobs and can single-tank/heal stuff, then tank/heal and 8 Warlocks?

Seed of Corruption with +1K damage = ~2300 damage AoE. If you have no spell haste, that's 9200 raid DPS to EACH secondary target! The AoE damage cap limits you to ~55K (lol wut??) raid DPS assuming no haste or crit.

Anyone got stats on the new ranks of SoC in WotLK ?

[Lyonheart]

My conclusion from seeing 10 mans, and doing them with vyndree is:

Most viable tank - Paladin
HOWEVER, you ahve to wait until he is -really- overgeared. Otherwise threat/mitigation/mana issues will arise from tanking mobs that were intended to be cc'ed.

Second most viable - Druid
Less buttons, good threat and avoidance given on par gear with instance

Least viable - War
MICRO MANAGEMENT HELL - however can deal w many diff issues if you're pro. (like me )

How over geared? For Kara, should the paly be hero badged out? If i remember right my guild was clearing kara before anyone was doing heroics. In fact i think Kara helped us do heroics more reliably lol.

[Stabface]

SoC is a threat magnet.. if you're going to cast it make sure that by the time you're done casting everything is dead. Otherwise the locks will die as soon as first SoCs go off... sad SM experience here... ;(

Ya, its not too bad, ran some quick #s and it needs about 700-800ish TPS from you tank to hold threat off the lock.

[Knytestorme]

Easiest way to test things is to test them

I think we have enough boxers of sufficient skill and group makeup on at least one server to test some theories so why not put some names/servers down and just hook up to try it.

Easiest would be trying out 2 Prot Pal + 8 Shaman since that would just be 2 people needed and run their groups the way they usually would. The issues I see with a makeup like this in Kara would only really be the silencing bosses, perhaps the mana wyrms and likely the shades and Moroes adds that are usually shackled and feared. I know Noids lurks here a bit so soon as I get my other 3 shaman leveled/geared I'll be quite happy to test this setup with him if he's willing.

WRT Kara I think that Netherspite will be almost impossible to solo (or even 2 man....3 would be doable though) and Nightbane will be an annoyance without enough tremor totems but everything else has been shown to be doable so it's not like it will ever be an issue, and yes once we're at 80 it should be trivial even with 1/2 the raid made up of level 70's you are gearing up.

I have a few worries about some of the new gimmicks that are coming into WotLK, such as the vehicle-based fighting or riding on dragons but they should still be able to be worked around given time, and the 4 horsemen event in Nax may be a blockage depending on how they change it for a 10 man (am thinking they'll have 2 to start with, so need 2 tanks, and then2 pop in once they die) BUT overall I still think it will be viable through there and could lead to 3 groups getting together to do the 25's as well...though hell, at 80 might be able to 10 man Mags, Grull, etc anyway.

[Suvega]

My conclusion from seeing 10 mans, and doing them with vyndree is:

Most viable tank - Paladin
HOWEVER, you ahve to wait until he is -really- overgeared. Otherwise threat/mitigation/mana issues will arise from tanking mobs that were intended to be cc'ed.

Second most viable - Druid
Less buttons, good threat and avoidance given on par gear with instance

Least viable - War
MICRO MANAGEMENT HELL - however can deal w many diff issues if you're pro. (like me )

How over geared? For Kara, should the paly be hero badged out? If i remember right my guild was clearing kara before anyone was doing heroics. In fact i think Kara helped us do heroics more reliably lol.

A paladin tank willl need prob at least upper t4 -> t5 (better then all kara gear), to tank packs of mobs with no CC.

I would expect the same in WOTLK. Basically wheny our tank needs nothing from an instance, you can prob aoe tank groups that are intended to be CCEd.

[Lyonheart]

well screw Kara then.. in WotLK ill be able to CC stuff with my shamans.. so ill just focus my effort on getting 2 palis and 8 shaman to 80 ! LOL