I am 5-45. I run 3-5 games with one group (with my shamans) and the rest of the games (with my pre-multiboxing toons) on another group for a total of 10 games. I try to win the games, but I usually get blown up even at my low rating. I usually only lose 0 to 5 points per game. The 5 times I have won were all 20+ point wins. I understand why some people consider this welfare epics, but for people like me who suck at arenas, it takes us a long, long time to get a piece of gear. But, I can go get epics all day long from heroics very easily.