5 Shaman vs 4 Warlocks and Priest?

[Xzin]

If you guys really want to know for sure - make characters on the PTRs.

I spent over 30 hours testing shammys and mages in 5 and 10 boxing configurations.

Shammys in theory are so much better.

In practice and in real PvP (I did not test PvE) - the mages were FAR superior in both shortness of downtime, ability to insta gib, ability to instant shield and heal and increased mobility (blink, invis).

Granted, I have 2 years of playing mages under my belt and I am already a bit biased towards mages anyway but honestly.... the shammys were not anywhere near as good as I would have imagined. Even with some upgrades of macros and more practice.... I still see them as weaker than mages/priest in large scale PvP. In arenas and PvE situations - that may very well be a different story.

[l0de]

How do you feel about locks vs mages in terms of the 4+priest setup xzin?

I feel like locks really offer a lot more versatility, and of course there's the insanity of having four warlocks run around laying whole sets of dots, (along with coex\cot) on a target and staying in motion). While mages have better burst, I'm a big fan of the lock utility, especially in terms of having 5 instant cast aoe fears, the ability to regen mana through lifetap and dark pact etc. Also you eliminate positioning from the equation alltogether. If you're using keyclone, feers and death coils on round robin is pretty spectacular, and you can continue doing damage while they're up.

I have a ton of priest and lock experience, but no real mage experience (other than a quick stab at boxing them which I found to be excrutiatingly boring). So I'm probably biased.

[Xzin]

Mages are deadly in mass PvP.
Warlocks are better suited for single targets one after another.


Locks have a lot of utility but that is a lot of micromanagement. You can do it with the right keybinds though.

Locks are easier to level up and they do have some tankage in the form of VWs... of course succubi/fels for PvP.

It comes down to a matter of choice really. Do you want to wtfown in AoE mass PvP situations or have a bit more utility?

I think I am over simplifying things but the general concept is sound. You can't go "wrong" with either choice but unless you spec destro and go Hellfire..... you will have a hard time AoEing in PvP with locks.

I think the biggest drawback that locks have is their DoTs. They can cast them endlessly but people can and will react - heal or move out of the way. I would rather have the opponent dead (mages) than dotted but still fighting and healing (locks). Shadowburn is also bugged such that you rarely get back all 4 soulshards so you have to constantly farm for them - not viable in PvP.

Perhaps if you combined an ice specced mage with imp blizzard with 3x warlocks for hellfire you MIGHT have a viable setup but again.... you have to hunker down and dig in..... you can't move around like you can with mages. In PvP - when people get hit by AoE - they VERY QUICKLY get the hell out of there. Being able to move around and cast IAE helps so much.

In arenas.... not so sure. Locks have more hit points and more CC but much less burst. Perhaps if you went Affliction and dotted and unstable afflictioned.... you MIGHT be able to pick people off 1 at a time... but to do so with 2 - 4 people beating on you AND 2 - 3 healers healing their dotted guys........ I am not sure how well that is going to go. Arenas are tough once you get to the 1900+ level.

[l0de]

I don't think 5 boxing for arena is really viable other than just eeking out at the 1600 range for the gear in a few months. Don't forget the ole seed of corruption though, it's serious business stacked in groups of 4.

[Xzin]

It also goes off in one tick.

But it - like chain lightning - requires people to be clumped.

They tend to clump together within 20 - 30 yards but generally not as close as one might expect (or need for SoC/CL).

[Slats]

I think I will level up both.

I am really torn between mages/priest and shaman.

Is there any way that mages could do heroics?

Even a few bosses to farm tokens for items needed for PvP (trinkets etc).

-Slats

[unit187]

I think I will level up both.

I am really torn between mages/priest and shaman.

Is there any way that mages could do heroics?

Even a few bosses to farm tokens for items needed for PvP (trinkets etc).

-Slats

mages and priest cant, they will be 1 shotted by any boss

[Ztar]

hm, crits restore mana (60% of spellcast mana used) + mana spring. So when u have 70 lvl avg. spellcrit 25% + 15% (17% in case u've got boomkin like I do) from totems of warth, thats 40% crit. Dont tell me it wont keep you at full mana.

How does crit restore 60% mana? is that always how it works or is it talents or what?

// Z

[Bena]

When you get a crit from you flash light/holy light you get 60% of your mana back (it was 100 but they nerfed it ). So if your FL costs 180mana when it crits you get 108 back.

[unit187]

hm, crits restore mana (60% of spellcast mana used) + mana spring. So when u have 70 lvl avg. spellcrit 25% + 15% (17% in case u've got boomkin like I do) from totems of warth, thats 40% crit. Dont tell me it wont keep you at full mana.

How does crit restore 60% mana? is that always how it works or is it talents or what?

// Z

I was a bit mistaken. When an elemental shaman does spellcrit it reduces cost of next damage spell by 60%. Clearcasting talent.