@bpkdasbsaum I thought VM's were against TOS?
@bpkdasbsaum I thought VM's were against TOS?
I use Aster to split my PC with my girl friend, the software allows to split monitor/resources/windows user/inputs/sound on the same machine.Originally Posted by jak3676
Free VM Solutions didn't offer the ease of use / setup and from what I found. (I opted for paid windows instead of free linux so to say)
4MP and Warrior3MP.
Have been playing those since AQ Patch. Leveled up the team originally to grind for Scarab Lord.
Mostly just using them for profession cooldowns, less boring fishing and the occasional Dungeon for fun and challenge.
Don't think so, didn't find any mention of this. I also just put the VM as a reference, I should have said, multiseat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multis...virtualization
Multiseat desktop virtualization is an entirely new methodology which combines the cost saving benefits and ease of maintenance of server based computing, the time savings of hardware agnostic cloning, and the capabilities of desktop virtualization, with the performance capabilities of real PC functionality. It takes advantage of this fact to enable ordinary users to install a multiseat PC giving 2 "seats" with a dual-core CPU or 4 "seats" with a quad-core CPU. The operating system of this PC is initially installed just like a regular PC. Regular PC users can install and use this type of product without having to install servers, or know how to manage complicated, server based computing or server based virtualization products. It has the combined benefits of a Type 1 hypervisor and a Type 2 hypervisor virtual machine. It does this with the efficiency of a Type 1 hypervisor while maintaining the portability of a Type 2 hypervisor.
The only thing that maybe somewhat virtualization related that I have seen Blizz discuss as problematic was "Cloud Computing" but that is not the same thing as a local VM host or VM.
Last edited by nodoze : 11-10-2020 at 05:46 PM
EDIT: HEADS UP THAT MULTIPLE FOLK HAVE HAD ISSUES GETTING THE KOOLERTRON KEYPADS WORKING THROUGH THE SHUONE KM SYNCHRONIZER... IF YOU HAVE A KOOLERTRON YOU SHOULD USE THE AMIOS KM DEVICES (or someone other than ShuOne).
IF YOU GET A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD/KEYPAD WITH HARDWARE STORED MACROS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCRONIZER PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT MODEL(S) YOU FIND ARE WORKING by putting updates into this thread...
Aster is working to 5box WoW for at least one person but another person who tried Multiseat Configuration software (Aster) found it slow for WoW and switched to Virtual Machines (VMs) via VMware (or Virtual Box, etc)...
I think bpkdasbsaum is onto something here when looking at MultiSeat Desktop Virtualization... Full VMs have significantly more overhead and complexity than a Multiseat Configuration (MC) which in some approaches can give multiple unique desktops with only 1 install of the Operating System. VMs are also a fine approach and cheaper than buying separate PCs but just have more overhead than a MC needing more RAM/CPU/storage and typically 1 copy of the Operating System and a full install of WoW per VM...
I need to double-check all of the below when I have more time but this could save folk lots of money so I figured best to get this out here ASAP even if I don't have time to double-check everything...
Those looking at buying 4+ more PCs to do multiboxing may be well served to look into this more. Your current system may already have more than enough resources to do this in most areas and thus could result in both a cheaper outlay of cash and a better experience going forward. This approach may well also save energy/space/complexity/etc...
For example my current system has plenty of RAM and CPU and I am pretty sure my discrete video card natively supports upto 4 monitors and that is before any display port hubs/extensions & not counting the built in graphics on my CPU/motherboard which may be fine to support 1 WoW client "follower" at low settings/resolutions. I am thinking to support 5 MultiSeat Virtual desktops running WoW from my current PC I should at most need to add 1 video card and maybe a USB extender for KM for the desktops.
Target 5box setup (credit most of this concept from bpkdasbsaum):
- Run 5x Windows Desktops on 1 PC via MultiSeat Virtualization (or via regular VMs);
- Each Windows Desktop (or VM) runs one wow client;
- Primary Windows Desktop does Video to Primary monitor;
- 4 other Virtual Desktops do Video to a 2nd Monitor in a quad layout (multiple ways to do this);
- Primary Desktop has dedicated main keyboard+Mouse;
- Use "synergy-like" software to allow your main keyboard+mouse to "float" between all 5 desktops (one at a time);
- Small keypad (or 2nd keyboard) to send game commands to all 5 desktops (1 keypad to control all 5 game clients) via KM synchronizer; Could also have a 2nd mouse here for ground AoE targeting...
I am thinking that many people could do the above resulting in a pretty nice setup leveraging what they have and only spending something like:
- $0: Leverage your current main multiboxing PC as much as possible;
- $0-$99?: VMs or MultiSeat desktop virtualization software (try Aster_here ... There are likely multiple vendors and possibly some decent free Open Source options);
- $0-$?: If current MotherBoard/IntegratedGraphics + Discrete Video Card can't support 5 monitors then you likely will need to add something like a Display Port Hub or a 2nd Video Card. Even a really nice Video card may be better and cheaper than buying 4+ more video cards &/or 4+ PCs...
- $0-$9-$26: I currently have at least 6 unused USB ports on my PC which may be enough... If you don't have enough USB ports you may need to buy an external USB hub/switch OR a PCI card that adds more USB ports...
- $0-$29: Open Source "Synergy-like" Barrier software that allows your main mouse/keyboard travel to all 5 desktops... That or buy the Synergy software; Note that the MultiSeat Virtualization software (Aster?) may have built in tools/capabilities for this.
- $35-$?: KM Syncronizer: Likely needed for either approach. Included cables likely work easier if you are just connecting them all to the same PC...
- $55-$77: 2nd Keypad for KM Syncronizer: Likely something like this 23key-Keypad or this 48key-Keypad would be ideal depending on how many keys you need for all 5 clients to do all the roles (Classic WoW is pretty basic). You should be able to feed this to all 5 Desktops for gaming from one single keypad and just bind different keybinds per wow client*...
- $78: If using Aster 4x1 Quad Multi-viewer to use just 1 monitor to see 4 outputs (if using VMs you can't use this and instead just put the VMs on a 2nd monitor);
- 0$-$79-$?: If you don't already have 2 monitors you likely will need a 2nd Monitor for 4 clients via the above multiview; Obviously you can get bigger/better monitors to your taste at more expense... Some existing monitors can handle multiple inputs or Picture in Picture or Picture by Picture so this all may be do-able in 1 existing monitor...
Rough Total: ~$168 to ~$400 depending on what you already have and can leverage. Does not include cost of a 2nd Video card nor cables if you need them.
That is all I have time for now to spec out but I wanted to put this down ASAP for folk considering buying 4+ small PCs for multiboxing... Even if your existing computers can't handle the extra overhead of multiseat desktop virtualization you may be able to keep your current PC for your main WoW client and just buy a 2nd slightly better PC for less than buying 4 weaker PCs...
*For those not clear what I envision by using 1 keypad for all 5 virtual desktops, the following is a simplified example:
If your goal was to have 3 keys in a row to allow 3 different mages to each shoot FrostBolts, you could configure them as follows and use 1 keyboard to control all 3 and not MultCast even when using a synchronizer:
-Mage 1: Keybind 1 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 2 & 3;
-Mage 2: Keybind 2 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 3;
-Mage 3: Keybind 3 to FrostBolt and unbind keys 1 & 2;
Similarly, Healing keys would only be bound on the Healer (and the other 4 clients would ignore the key-presses as they don't have that key bound...
Same thing for Tanking keys (if you are not running a 4DPS+Healer team)...
Last edited by nodoze : 04-20-2021 at 12:33 PM
So theoretically you could use a program like Aster, and set it to float your keyboard between the desktops and keep it within the new 1-1-1 rule? Like a ISboxer round robin set up but without going through Innerspace.
HEADS UP THAT MULTIPLE FOLK ARE HAVING ISSUES GETTING THE KOOLERTRON KEYPADS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCHRONIZER...
IF YOU GET YOUR KOOLERTRON WORKING WITH THIS KM SWITCH OR ANOTHER ONE PLEASE REPLY TO THIS THREAD...
IF YOU GET A DIFFERENT KEYBOARD/KEYPAD WITH HARDWARE STORED MACROS WORKING THROUGH THE KM SYNCRONIZER PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT MODEL(S) YOU FIND ARE WORKING...I will also try to update the post above to reflect this (and update it further if things change)... If we find another keyboard/keypad that stores the macros in the hardware I will try to update this to reflect that as well.
So far the only device confirmed working with programmable buttons though the ShuOne KM sync switch are:
- Razer Naga Trinity mouse works great with all key mappings;
Tested against an Aimos 4 port switch (not confirmed for ShuOne yet):
- Razer Orbweaver;
More details on testing in this thread...
EDIT: Tracking of Testing is now being done here so it is in one place in one easily accessible post:
https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/...mp-KM-switches
Last edited by nodoze : 11-20-2020 at 12:45 PM
Hardware Multiboxing Update:
I finished the setup and took my 5/6 man team for a spin in Winterspring to farm some Frost Eko's (Elite Giants in the South).
It works, it's a downgrade from hotkeynet in regards to smoothness, ease of access, freedom of keybinds, convinience of swapping/rearanging windows.
But it WORKS! That's the important part. The rest can be adjusted/improved from here on out.
Moving on the master feels junky due to the rollover limit of the KVM (max 3 keys). As mentioned in previous post, I am used to mouselook strafing, jumping spinning etc all at the same time. I can get used to it though. Ideally I can find a second KVM that has real pass through or at least 6 rollover keys. If all fails, I will buy the same KVM again. This way I can get 3 rollover for the mouse and 3 rollover for keyboard individually.
Minor Annoyances:
- display resets position and main monitor setup when switching from PBP to Fullscreen
- keyboard shortcuts for switching are not working reliably, have to hit it 10 times sometimes. it seems to work better if a few "normal" keys are sent, then the shortcut to switch. It works 80% of the time on the first shortcut use. I am mostly using the buttons on the switch currently though, it's kinda faster to cycle through.
Controls:
- Had to unbind WASD on slaves, if I ever need to control them solo, mouse walk or arrow keys will do
- All keys are sent, unlike it hotkeynet, I can't block certain keys, so some double bindings had to be reevaluated, moved spells around that were blocked in hotkeynet by excluding certain keys
- Mouse clicks disabled via mouse disabler app
PC Resources:
- no disconnects, stable connection with 6 clients ~1h played, I had 7 running for a few minutes as well (@nodaze you asked about this I believe?)
- 100% CPU utillisation on i7-7700K @4.20GHz (slight OC) while running 6 clients via Multiseat. I can sometimes see characters lagg/skip, but that happened with hotkeynet before as well. Tends to happen less if I play on only 5 chars.
- 5 clients run smoothly
- 16/32gb memory used
Minor good things that appeared by accident
Master is set to 1440p and has a "dead" monitor on the left (the mouse can move into that empty space) slaves are 1080p.
When changing settings in wow the master and slave don't click the same buttons while mouse is active on all 5 PCs. This is convinient
It's quite easy / hassle free to swittch mouse clicks and mouse wheel on/off with mouse disable app.
I put wow and mouse disabler into autorun folder and pinned them to the taskbar just in case.
Everytime windows starts wow and mouse disabler are ready to be used.
I disable mouse wheel first, then right click, then left click last, alt + tab to switch to wow.
When I need the mouse enable again alt + tab switches automaticaly back to mouse disabler app and last position is the left mouseclick setting.
Hitting space reactivates the left click and I can use the mouse again.
Switching Windows/main Monitor around
Found this Macro that covers my needs, as I sometimes play on the 4k and have my discord/browser on the smaller monitor on the right side.
One button switches back and forth between both monitors
Code:/run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1) /run RestartGx()Code:/run SetCVar("gxMaximize",1-GetCVar("gxMaximize")) /run SetCVar("gxMonitor",GetCVar("gxMonitor")=="1" and 2 or 1) /console gxrestart
Shower thoughts:
- Maybe I should just upgrade my PC, get a shiny new Rizon and canabalize my current one to give my GF her own full PC. This would make my Multtiseat setup and monitor/sound issues less strenuous and easier to setup
- Need to find a solution for the rollover limit and pass through issues. @Wootenblatz informed me here
that the pass through is due to VID/PID hiding, avoid those KVMs if you can!
- I should make a new dedicated forums post for the progress on everything, maybe somewhat of a guide now that I got proof of concept
- Need to disable DCPH and set static IP, update setting in router so I can setup Barrier Software (borderless mouse sharing)
- Automate/save display settings with MurgeeMon App, so I don't have to manually adjust settings everytime I stop multiboxing
-
Last edited by bpkdasbaum : 11-26-2020 at 07:47 PM
Black Friday is approaching and your girlfriend likely deserves an i7-7700K so get yourself a Ryzen so you can treat her right!
Which mouse disable app are you using?
I definitely think a new guide thread would be really good/helpful. Reserve at least the first 3 or so posts and keep the top updated if/as things evolve.
At some point I though you were having performance issues with Aster and were looking at switching to VMware... It sounds like you figured them out so I would definately include in your new guide thread any tips/tricks to finetune Aster for WoW Multiboxing.
@nodoze
https://www.murgee.com/mouse-disabler/download/setup.exe
Edit: I realized just now that I had my wow settings at 100 FPS :E toned that down to 20 per Slave
Last edited by bpkdasbaum : 11-26-2020 at 10:43 PM
how are you running 5+ workplaces in aster? I have no issues running 4 workplaces off my rtx 3080 alone. But it gives monitor issues if I try to add a 5th monitor. I have tried using my iGPU, and I have tried adding a gtx 970 to round out my WMPWP group.
Posting Rules
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us