LMMMP team

[Lewsifur]

Understood, can a lock hold their own with mages on a burn down with shadowbolts. Perhaps dropping the voidwalker for imp?

[Apatheist]

In dungeons warlock damage should be equal to mage DPS on single targets. On AE fights it depends on the circumstances. Arcane explosion vs hellfire is about equal. If you weave in flamestrike and cone of cold effectively, mages will outperform warlocks on multiple targets while being less prone to interrupts.

However, don't forget the fact that the warlock can actually be used as a tank at 40+. Doesn't work particularly well for AE pulls because of hellfire being interrupted but SL warlocks are more than capable of tanking any dungeon boss. You can reach around 75%+ physical damage reduction on a warlock between armor, cheap consumables and talents.

[nodoze]

In dungeons warlock damage should be equal to mage DPS on single targets. On AE fights it depends on the circumstances. Arcane explosion vs hellfire is about equal. If you weave in flamestrike and cone of cold effectively, mages will outperform warlocks on multiple targets while being less prone to interrupts.

However, don't forget the fact that the warlock can actually be used as a tank at 40+. Doesn't work particularly well for AE pulls because of hellfire being interrupted but SL warlocks are more than capable of tanking any dungeon boss. You can reach around 75%+ physical damage reduction on a warlock between armor, cheap consumables and talents.

Good points. If you have a Paladin healer you can give between 35%->50% Pushback resistance to a level 40+ Warlock until they can start moving toward 100% pushback resistance around level 57+. Generally I would recommend a Priest if you running multiple Warlocks but a Paladin Healer may be more helpful in a Warlock+3Mage+Healer team if you want to use the Warlock for tanking...

[Apatheist]

2xPaladin, 3xWarlock would be a pretty solid PvE team if you already have level 60 mages to supply water for the paladins. It wouldn't really matter which character was being hit, they're all super tanky. The real problem with hellfire isn't pushback though, it's being stunned/interrupted. Just about every mob pack in 50+ dungeons has some kind of active interrupt skill. It's pretty obnoxious.

Something else to note is a bunch of damage debuffs stack. With stoneskin totem, demo shout and curse of weakness the mobs in SM:Cath hit for like 10 damage.

[nodoze]

2xPaladin, 3xWarlock would be a pretty solid PvE team if you already have level 60 mages to supply water for the paladins. It wouldn't really matter which character was being hit, they're all super tanky. The real problem with hellfire isn't pushback though, it's being stunned/interrupted. Just about every mob pack in 50+ dungeons has some kind of active interrupt skill. It's pretty obnoxious.

Something else to note is a bunch of damage debuffs stack. With stoneskin totem, demo shout and curse of weakness the mobs in SM:Cath hit for like 10 damage.

Not sure if there's a "right" answer but I prefer to stack as much stamina as possible so I can lifetap liberally.

Shadow/spell damage increase lifetap damage and mana return so as you level and get more damage items, your mana pool becomes less relevant. It's mostly from 20-40 that you have to choose between either damage or base stats. After 40 there are quite a few nice pieces that will have stamina and either spell damage or shadow damage.

Something else to keep in mind is that when you have enough shadow damage the increase to your DoT's is significant since they receive 100% of your bonus damage over their duration. Spreading DoT's for cleave may even be more DPS than hellfire on an average high level pull of 3-5 mobs like the ogre packs in DM.

OK thanks for the guidance! I was definitely stacking lots of dots on Elites in DM and I will definitely try mixing in DoTs with AoE to see what balance fits for the various fights.

Not having to care too much which characters get hit is what I am going for as I want an AoE grinding team that doesn't require either twitch healing nor ping-ponging boss aggro (nor twitch iceblocking to survive). My goal is to have the Paladin Tank and ideally take as many of the debuffs/interrupts that he can while pushing AoEing Threat and let the others AoE DPS with him. Hopefully that will mean the others aren't getting hit much but not having to care is great regardless and if things are going as planned they can use that stamina for Hellfire/life-tap/etc.

I do want to try to heal as much as possible from the lead Tank Paladin just to see how viable that is (in part practicing for solo power leveling low level alts and for PVP) so if he is getting lots of interrupts even with Flashes of Light I may get a 'Hand of Edward the Odd' to try for periodic instant heals (I wanted one for PVP anyway).

[Nyth]

Just to follow up on this, would you say that the demo without Ruin would still be more dps than a prot war ? If so, what build would you recommend for a soul link demo, keeping the ability to aoe with it.

Here is a try I made, to maximize stam from soul link (i.e. buffing up the void walker), while keeping the 70% interrupt reduction and fire damage to keep up on aoe.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZex0xb

[nodoze]

Just to follow up on this, would you say that the demo without Ruin would still be more dps than a prot war ? If so, what build would you recommend for a soul link demo, keeping the ability to aoe with it.

Here is a try I made, to maximize stam from soul link (i.e. buffing up the void walker), while keeping the 70% interrupt reduction and fire damage to keep up on aoe.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZex0xb

That is similar to what I am planning though mana isn't a big worry for me at this point so I would put the 3 points in Cataclysm somewhere else like Destructive Reach and Aftermath. Personally I plan to focus on AoE with my tanky Warlocks so I am not sure how much I would get out of Bane (maybe good for bosses so maybe leave it in). If Destructive Reach also increases the radius of AoEs I would definitely want to include it (not sure if it does or not) and if it doesn't then maybe/maybe not (likely still yes)...

Currently I am not at this point yet but my initial thoughts were something more like:

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZxt0xr

If Bane ends up not being that important for my AoE farming then maybe I would move those 5 points to max Aftermath and take Shadow Burn. Sorry I haven't gotten to the point of actual testing yet...