Aoe Mage & Lock builds

[Nyth]

Thanks to you both.

playing with the talent calculator for the lock and following Purpleflavor’s advice, I end up with something like this : https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZfgVzM0oZEx0xbMzx

seems fairly optimized towards hellfire while keeping a good dps with shadow bolt. Just wondering though if Aftermath (eg dazing mobs) really helps during aoe phases.

as for mages, I understand from daviddoran that arcane may become viable at 40, in the meanwhile frost is probably still better. Do you think tweaking my current build (which is mostly frost but includes arcane subtlety) to add improved arcane explosion is worth and would make any significant difference ?

thanks

[Purpleflavor]

Thanks to you both.

playing with the talent calculator for the lock and following Purpleflavor’s advice, I end up with something like this : https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZfgVzM0oZEx0xbMzx

seems fairly optimized towards hellfire while keeping a good dps with shadow bolt. Just wondering though if Aftermath (eg dazing mobs) really helps during aoe phases.

as for mages, I understand from daviddoran that arcane may become viable at 40, in the meanwhile frost is probably still better. Do you think tweaking my current build (which is mostly frost but includes arcane subtlety) to add improved arcane explosion is worth and would make any significant difference ?

thanks

Aftermath will help with runners if you have no other solution, or prefer it. You have a lot of options to cover that though. That warlock spec is close to a very common raiding spec for pumping out max damage shadowbolts. Another is MD/ruin for the threat reduction, but i dont see how you could get more than 3 points into MD if you spec pyroclasm, depending on how you feel, maybe going something like https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZfgVzMx0xZex0xb0z would help with threat. High chance to stun or 20% reduced threat, I'd pick reduced threat for times when you arent aoeing.

As a mage group, 3 or 4, this is what i've found to be optimal.
Arcane is great, cant go wrong leveling arcane, but it really doesnt help with mana until you start gearing up. Those percentages of 10 and 15 only matter when you start stacking on stats in the hundreds. The PoM is amazing, but not enough so to be a priority or outscale some of the other specs. In the 50's and also with pyro does it become a single target beast. For leveling, and especially because we are multiboxing, i find Frost to be absolutely incredible. Ice shards, shatter, frostbite, with 4 stacked mages, you obliterate everything that is vulnerable to frost. Winters chill will insta max stack, Ice barrier is amazing especially when AOEing, you have an oh crap button x2 with ice block, and the control you gain with CC is the best in the game. Tossing a frost nova and/or a Cone of Cold for the freezing and chill effect when AoEing with Arcane Explosion gives you 50% crit against those frozen targets with any spell. So in effect that beats Imp arcane explosion by a lot. Round up mobs, 1xfrost nova, 3-4xAE, 1xfrost nova, 3-4xAE, ect. You're effectively doing 100% crit damage on your first 2 AE's, and that damage means you have to cast less AE's to kill, which effectively saves you mana, which defeats the point of being Arcane spec and it's mana bonuses. You only need to be using Rank 1 Frost nova for the freezing effect, the damage gain is negligible and you'll save 100 mana per cast. You can even get a bit advanced and after you round up the mobs and freeze them all with frost nova, drop flamestrikes which will all have a 50% chance too crit rather than the fire spec imp flamestrikes measly 15%. Frost is amazing solo, but as a boxer it's insane. Even arcane subtlety 2/2 is great for frost, gives a nice bit of damage to cold resit mobs, i think all undead have some cold resist if im not mistaken.

The synergy is crazy, in which Arcane spec really doesnt share. Fire has great synergy, but you dont see it reach it's potential until you're 60 and geared.

[KingKrab]

Aftermath will help with runners if you have no other solution, or prefer it. You have a lot of options to cover that though. That warlock spec is close to a very common raiding spec for pumping out max damage shadowbolts. Another is MD/ruin for the threat reduction, but i dont see how you could get more than 3 points into MD if you spec pyroclasm, depending on how you feel, maybe going something like https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZfgVzMx0xZex0xb0z would help with threat. High chance to stun or 20% reduced threat, I'd pick reduced threat for times when you arent aoeing.

As a mage group, 3 or 4, this is what i've found to be optimal.
Arcane is great, cant go wrong leveling arcane, but it really doesnt help with mana until you start gearing up. Those percentages of 10 and 15 only matter when you start stacking on stats in the hundreds. The PoM is amazing, but not enough so to be a priority or outscale some of the other specs. In the 50's and also with pyro does it become a single target beast. For leveling, and especially because we are multiboxing, i find Frost to be absolutely incredible. Ice shards, shatter, frostbite, with 4 stacked mages, you obliterate everything that is vulnerable to frost. Winters chill will insta max stack, Ice barrier is amazing especially when AOEing, you have an oh crap button x2 with ice block, and the control you gain with CC is the best in the game. Tossing a frost nova and/or a Cone of Cold for the freezing and chill effect when AoEing with Arcane Explosion gives you 50% crit against those frozen targets with any spell. So in effect that beats Imp arcane explosion by a lot. Round up mobs, 1xfrost nova, 3-4xAE, 1xfrost nova, 3-4xAE, ect. You're effectively doing 100% crit damage on your first 2 AE's, and that damage means you have to cast less AE's to kill, which effectively saves you mana, which defeats the point of being Arcane spec and it's mana bonuses. You only need to be using Rank 1 Frost nova for the freezing effect, the damage gain is negligible and you'll save 100 mana per cast. You can even get a bit advanced and after you round up the mobs and freeze them all with frost nova, drop flamestrikes which will all have a 50% chance too crit rather than the fire spec imp flamestrikes measly 15%. Frost is amazing solo, but as a boxer it's insane. Even arcane subtlety 2/2 is great for frost, gives a nice bit of damage to cold resit mobs, i think all undead have some cold resist if im not mistaken.

The synergy is crazy, in which Arcane spec really doesnt share. Fire has great synergy, but you dont see it reach it's potential until you're 60 and geared.

This seems like a great idea, what kind of build would you recommend to take advantage of the frost synergy? Could this take on bosses?

My 4 mages are currently arcane but it sounds like it may be worth switching over.

[Purpleflavor]

This seems like a great idea, what kind of build would you recommend to take advantage of the frost synergy? Could this take on bosses?

My 4 mages are currently arcane but it sounds like it may be worth switching over.

baseline
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#obZZVAG0o0tVo
and build from there.

For a more Arcane build go
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#oi0VbocZZVAG0oMtVo
I think it was Peregrine who pointed out how good Amplify magic was for your priest and how well it was working for him in another thread.

For a more Frost build go
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#owZZVAGIoftAo
I prefer this one.

For bosses this build is one of the highest dps spec in the game, so it's really just about whether you survive or not. Ice barrier and ice block help a ton with that, more so than any other 4 mage spec. But, Arcane POM pyro spec does so much up front burst damage most bosses will be half dead in your opener, and sometimes offense is the best defense.

[Sisyphus]

I’m running two mages and a lock currently in BRD. What I’m probably going to move to with my lock is soul link with a void walker. You can get massive dmg mitigation since the lock will always be pulling aggro anyways. My mages are deep arcane currently and just using arcane explosion with hellfire. For single target just run curse of elements.

for awhile I was doing ranged AoE but found it’s just more simple to have the team follow my warrior closely.

[nodoze]

I’m running two mages and a lock currently in BRD. What I’m probably going to move to with my lock is soul link with a void walker. You can get massive dmg mitigation since the lock will always be pulling aggro anyways. My mages are deep arcane currently and just using arcane explosion with hellfire. For single target just run curse of elements.

for awhile I was doing ranged AoE but found it’s just more simple to have the team follow my warrior closely.

I am also considering trying to make it to where I can also just follow my Tank and safely AoE from the Warlocks as well.

Like you I initially was leaning toward trying to fit Soul-Link for the extra mitigation but taking the 31 talent in Demonology keeps you from taking the 21 point talent in Destruction for +100% bonus damage from crits.

I am now leaning toward trying to have the +100% damage from crits but also not take aggro by giving my Warlocks -50% threat (-30% from Blessing of Salvation & another -20% from Master Demonologist). If I still have Threat issues I will likely flip that point like you are doing to make the Warlocks more Tanky but I am hoping I won't have to.

Basically running something like this build (flip back and forth between 0/30/21 and /31/20). Still not 100% on the Talents but I am trying to be able to switch between a viable Voidwalker &/or viable Imp and see how much I can get away with by managing Threat.