Melee-Cleave Boxing End Game Dungeons

[nodoze]

The issue with any kind of prot or ret pally in a melee mix like warriors (in classic) is that mana is always an issue. I had two friends that were running 4xwars and holy pally and what makes it amazing is that there's really no downtime. Holy pallies are SO mana efficient and your warriors aren't limited by resources. Both liked the concept of ravager initially but found the proc annoying in a multi and quickly replaced them with Bonebiter instead.

At launch most of us that ran 3Warriors+2Paladins did it to have a redundant healer for WPVP and at least when I did it I actually ran both as Holy and mainly used their mana for healing. Both Paladins were set to auto-attack mainly and I would judge with Light for on hit heals for everyone and then the other was judging as needed (like I was doing Wisdom if I needed mana or Justice with the other to prevent runners or what not). Unless incoming damage really needed both to heal simultaneously I ypically I would heal with just one Paladin until it was around 40% and then switch to the other to max mp5. If your main/only goal is PVE 5man dungeons I would do 4Warriors+Paladin instead of 3Warriors+2Paladins.

I uploaded a video of my Hpal/bear druid/3 combat rogues in SM that I found from 7 months ago. I'll have to sit down this week and get some current gameplay at max level (and could also go through talents then). Please forgive my nubness, this was my first melee multi and looking back there's SO many things I could have optimized!

Hope you like it! No commentary as I was just showing some friends what I was up to at the time.
https://youtu.be/P_oiuCkW0Vc

OK I updated the initial post and look forward to some end game dungeons.

[Gnomepower]

At launch most of us that ran 3Warriors+2Paladins did it to have a redundant healer for WPVP and at least when I did it I actually ran both as Holy and mainly used their mana for healing. Both Paladins were set to auto-attack mainly and I would judge with Light for on hit heals for everyone and then the other was judging as needed (like I was doing Wisdom if I needed mana or Justice with the other to prevent runners or what not). Unless incoming damage really needed both to heal simultaneously I ypically I would heal with just one Paladin until it was around 40% and then switch to the other to max mp5. If your main/only goal is PVE 5man dungeons I would do 4Warriors+Paladin instead of 3Warriors+2Paladins.
OK I updated the initial post and look forward to some end game dungeons.

Using the 2nd pally like that makes sense for pvp but I agree, for PvE 4 warriors would outshine that imo. I was more speaking to kruschpakx4 contemplating mixing a prot pally into the mix for what I assume would be tanking. Just wanted to highlight how mana hungry prot pallies are tanking in classic and how this would change the flow of a team that’s otherwise rarely resource limited!

[nodoze]

Using the 2nd pally like that makes sense for pvp but I agree, for PvE 4 warriors would outshine that imo. I was more speaking to kruschpakx4 contemplating mixing a prot pally into the mix for what I assume would be tanking. Just wanted to highlight how mana hungry prot pallies are tanking in classic and how this would change the flow of a team that’s otherwise rarely resource limited!

There were times when leveling to 40 that I definitely needed the 2nd Holy Paladin's healing output... Sometimes I needed the throughput from both healers and sometimes I needed the extra mana from two mana pools (and sometimes I needed both)... That being said I could have maybe gotten by doing smaller more conservative pulls and or popping mana potions more aggressively or possibly other things and possibly having the extra DPS from a 4th Warrior would have made the 2nd healer not needed due to faster mob killing needing less healing but regardless once at cap and at pre-raid BiS+ levels I think you would be more than fine with 1 Holy Paladin and I think definitely 4W+1Paladin would be better than 3W+2Paladin for PVE 5man Dungeons.

When geared correctly a Prot Paladin can be pretty mana efficient (you can watch Fuii's videos for example) and with more mp5 gear (like in full Deathbone set) and Wisdom you may not need to stop to drink much at all... Possibly more importantly than the possible negative (at best neutral) of introducing another mana bar into the mix, a Prot Paladin will steal rage from the 3 Warriors and is indeed counter productive to a melee-cleave team.

So I agree with you and even if you can work to address your mana concern somewhat you are still working against the 3 warrior's rage if you run a Protection Paladin pushing Threat.

[Kruschpakx4]

Both liked the concept of ravager initially but found the proc annoying in a multi and quickly replaced them with Bonebiter instead.

I agree on the reliability issue, 3 warriors without windfury is probably having more trouble with procc fishing. At the moment i figured out in strat i can do bigger pulls and then move around a corner to have casters stack on melees, the shaman needs to be positioned well for example such that he wont get the protectors charging me all the time but also not close enough to eat shield bash. More than one sorcerer also sucks because if you get a sheep its over too. It is overall much more difficult than just running through doing double group pulls with standard weapons.

[nodoze]

I agree on the reliability issue, 3 warriors without windfury is probably having more trouble with procc fishing. At the moment i figured out in strat i can do bigger pulls and then move around a corner to have casters stack on melees, the shaman needs to be positioned well for example such that he wont get the protectors charging me all the time but also not close enough to eat shield bash. More than one sorcerer also sucks because if you get a sheep its over too. It is overall much more difficult than just running through doing double group pulls with standard weapons.

I think 1-2 Paladins with a Seal up get an increased chance for a Ravager Proc and if either does get a proc they get a much more drastic DPS increase than a Warrior does... That being said you will need to able to cancel the aura on demand to pump out heals if you proc Ravager on your Paladin(s) or Shaman(s).

[Kruschpakx4]

I played around with it again today and it looks good when you have 1,5k dps on usually 1-2 warriors where it chainproccs but its more mana intense to heal so i have to reg more and it turns out i dont really gain time by it... altough i forgot to use 5 t1 on the shaman with that strategy but still I doubt its viability after all. And there is always that 5%ish chance scenario where no warrior gets a procc and then you go oom because theres not enough damage and you wipe. Too bad they didnt design that weapon with an on use ability. So far 19:30 was my best time with all bosses...maybe Ill give it another try when i have all the disarm immunity gauntlets so i can use crusader on the ravagers.

[Apatheist]

On my warrior team I've added my /cancelaura macro into my follow hotkey so it automatically cancels ravager. Pretty simple.

I still keep ravager in my bags at 60. There are times when it's pretty useful having a 360 cleave for clearing low level dungeons, etc.

Not that I play my warriors much these days. I've been really enjoying my 5 druid team recently.

[Gnomepower]

Finished up my endgame run-down for the holy pal, feral tank and 3 combat rogues in strat ud. https://youtu.be/Cxlj-usuYcE
Apologize, I've never recorded myself talking while gaming and the audio is a bit shrill at times (couldn't de-ess or process out - also had never really delved into adobe pro processing, what an adventure)!

End result was about a 55min strat UD, wiped on baron trying to rush it for the timer but fairly clean 2nd attempt for kill.

I go through team, talents, current gear and overall pros/cons of group. Hope people find it educational!

Rogue talents are: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...50100050150221

[Gnomepower]

Small bonus vid, a sample of my sham crew (1 enhanc tank, 3 enhanc 2h and one resto sham) in scholo. Had recorded this video a while ago to show a friend the Dark Menace sham quest but shows the majority of scholo as well. https://youtu.be/9ppMLGWk6xo

[nodoze]

Finished up my endgame run-down for the holy pal, feral tank and 3 combat rogues in strat ud. https://youtu.be/Cxlj-usuYcE
Apologize, I've never recorded myself talking while gaming and the audio is a bit shrill at times (couldn't de-ess or process out - also had never really delved into adobe pro processing, what an adventure)!

End result was about a 55min strat UD, wiped on baron trying to rush it for the timer but fairly clean 2nd attempt for kill.

I go through team, talents, current gear and overall pros/cons of group. Hope people find it educational!

Rogue talents are: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...50100050150221

Thanks for sharing.

Did you ever try or consider a Resto Druid over Holy Paladin with your Bear+3Rogues?

Just curious because it open up a full stealth party option.