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  1. #1

    Default MMMMP vs LLLLP For PvP?

    I know I could farm dungeons with both, mages being a little trickier but possibly faster? Locks seems a bit slower to kill but safer/easier, though the pets don't always hold aggro for bosses, but at least halfway through. PVP I'm not sure as I haven't had a chance to try both, but I'd definitely want to be closer to top dps in bgs when they come out (assuming follow is allowed) and here's where I'm confused on which to choose.

    Warlock
    Easy DoTs, don't need to face target and can literally run around/cast, plus it synergies with my priest more.

    Mage
    Crazy 1 shot bursts or pretty close, but have to be facing the target when casting. Nova/blink could work for all casters very easily, and frost spec synergies so well with each other.

    So basically, if I'm looking for top DPS numbers AND KILLS, would 4locks or 4mages be my go to?

    I've adjusted the title of the thread so that it isn't huge and doesn't get cut off.
    Please keep the titles of threads concise and to the point.

    -MiRai
    Last edited by MiRai : 09-23-2019 at 01:25 PM

  2. #2

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    I would go with warlocks.

    With warlocks you need 2 gcd to kill someone at 36yd range while moving, can add another gcd and a immolate to really get the damage going on them.
    Has the option to be one of the tankiest classes in pvp with soul link and stacking stamina.
    Also has several useful abilities like death coil, howl of terror, fear, offensive and defensive dispel magic, silence, imp for hp buff or succubus for additional cc, soul stone (imagine 4 soul link warlocks that stack stamina using soul stone on rotation on priest that have spirit of redemption) etc.
    Can be countered with dispel and healing but probably a bit hard.

    Mages. Need to face target. Need to cast spells or use their instant cast cd spells.
    Fire Blast, 20-26 yd range. Probably won't kill anyone with just this unless lucky with crits or if you stack spell power and attack badly geared players.
    Cone of Cold is basically melee range.
    I mean, I think they will struggle in fights because of needing to face target, not at all tanky, not a lot of instant cast with long range and I think they will get less kills in world pvp because they need to get so close to target and no spammable instant cast.
    They might struggle against things like Blessing of Freedom, Free Action Potion. They would probably be more vulnerable against grenades (can't use arcane explosion or cone of cold if you spread out and if you use a 2.5 sec cast and get interrupted it will be more punishing than someone spamming instant casts), can also be easier to aoe fear since they have reason to stay close and need to stand still casting spells and warlocks can counter someone running up close with a death coil.

    To me mages doesn't feel that amazing, some say they will be amazing but most of the time I think the argument is "they can aoe down 50 people with a few gcd" but in most fights the opponents will probably be spread out. I think mages are a solo or pve class, can't use their movement properly as a multiboxer in pvp.

    Btw, follow was tested in bgs during beta, it did not work. I think only way they would allow it is probably if there was a big demand from community (maybe for easier/lazy movement in AV). So it is very unlikely that it will work in bgs.

  3. #3

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    Personally I think Warlocks are more realistic for most multiboxers. They are more fire/forget on targets and have tools to deal with people zerging them and are more tanky when people do get in close on them.

  4. #4

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    I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

    The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.

    due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

    i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


    for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

    ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by xandorz View Post
    I would go with warlocks.

    With warlocks you need 2 gcd to kill someone at 36yd range while moving, can add another gcd and a immolate to really get the damage going on them.
    Has the option to be one of the tankiest classes in pvp with soul link and stacking stamina.
    Also has several useful abilities like death coil, howl of terror, fear, offensive and defensive dispel magic, silence, imp for hp buff or succubus for additional cc, soul stone (imagine 4 soul link warlocks that stack stamina using soul stone on rotation on priest that have spirit of redemption) etc.
    Can be countered with dispel and healing but probably a bit hard.

    Mages. Need to face target. Need to cast spells or use their instant cast cd spells.
    Fire Blast, 20-26 yd range. Probably won't kill anyone with just this unless lucky with crits or if you stack spell power and attack badly geared players.
    Cone of Cold is basically melee range.
    I mean, I think they will struggle in fights because of needing to face target, not at all tanky, not a lot of instant cast with long range and I think they will get less kills in world pvp because they need to get so close to target and no spammable instant cast.
    They might struggle against things like Blessing of Freedom, Free Action Potion. They would probably be more vulnerable against grenades (can't use arcane explosion or cone of cold if you spread out and if you use a 2.5 sec cast and get interrupted it will be more punishing than someone spamming instant casts), can also be easier to aoe fear since they have reason to stay close and need to stand still casting spells and warlocks can counter someone running up close with a death coil.

    To me mages doesn't feel that amazing, some say they will be amazing but most of the time I think the argument is "they can aoe down 50 people with a few gcd" but in most fights the opponents will probably be spread out. I think mages are a solo or pve class, can't use their movement properly as a multiboxer in pvp.

    Btw, follow was tested in bgs during beta, it did not work. I think only way they would allow it is probably if there was a big demand from community (maybe for easier/lazy movement in AV). So it is very unlikely that it will work in bgs.
    Oh wow, those are some really solid points. Definitely going with warlock then. That's sad news about the bgs I may not continue multiboxing so instead I may just make what I'd want to play as a main(ROGUE) later. Rogue/3locks/priest (Might be a bit tricky, but it'll be a challenge I suppose.) TY!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drmanhattan View Post
    I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

    The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.


    due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

    i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


    for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

    ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better

    TY! Honestly I'm avoiding using a mage with locks as I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Switching out a lock with a rogue, but only because I main rogue, hoping that'll help in some way though. What would you say is the best spec for PVE 10-40 or even 10-60?

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmanhattan View Post
    I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

    The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.

    due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

    i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


    for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

    ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better
    If you had a level 60 Mage on a 6th account (or as an alt on your 5 accounts) who could give you ample food/water at the start of your session would you still want to mix in a mage or would you recommend all locks in that case?

    Alternatively if you were flush in gold such that buying food/water were not a concern would you still want to mix in a mage or would you stay all locks in that case?
    Last edited by nodoze : 09-23-2019 at 01:53 PM

  8. #8

    Default

    I'm curious how people are playing when they say "just DoT's will out-threat voidwalkers." Are your pets assisting you as you cycle through targets and DoT? If that's the case, of course a full row of DoT's will pull threat after they tick several times and you've only allowed the voidwalker a chance to apply one torment.

    Here's how my pull would go when I was private server testing for reference.

    I select 4 different targets, send pets. I allow the pets enough time to get two torments and a couple of auto attacks off (6 seconds or so) during which time I select 4 new targets. Then I send my pets again and repeat however many times I feel my pets can handle the incoming damage. Usually 8-12 equal level mobs. Then I use my pet passive/follow macro. When my pets stack up near me, I hit my AE hotkey that does several things.

    1. Cycles through the warlock pets casting suffering on a 3 second delay so I have a suffering available for most pulls and they don't all fire at once.
    2. Hellfire and petaggressive macro on warlocks.
    3. Prayer of mending, fade castsequence on priest

    This way one of the voidwalkers is guaranteed to generate a significant amount of threat on everything near me (260-780 threat depending on rank) and all pets have cast 2-3 torments on each mob. That should be enough to hold agro for several pulses of hellfire which will kill most dungeon trash. Couple of lifetaps, another prayer of healing and my warlocks and their pets are full HP/mana with the priest on about 75% mana.

    For my testing I used a weird hybrid soul link spec just for grinding purposes.
    https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...051-5050005122

    It sounds complex but once you get into the swing of it it's actually simple and efficient with minimal down time. I only ever have to sit and drink when my priest gets low which is rare once you get decent gear. I haven't played warlocks yet on classic but I figured I'd post this again just to give some tips. Can't see any reason why this wouldn't work in classic dungeons with proper pet management. An average pull of say 3 packs or 12 mobs takes about 20-30 seconds.

    Here's a random video I found showing voidwalker is perfectly capable of holding threat on classic versus DoT's even with no DPS delay and using immolate which I never do. The mobs are even a level higher than him causing them to parry/resist more.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JKRIpD5TI&t=365s
    Last edited by Apatheist : 09-23-2019 at 05:03 PM

  9. #9

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    for pvp i dont think it's even close. I think Xzin found the best combo in MMMMP. Four 3minute mages with so many insta casts, cc, iceblock and mobility. Yikes. You can literally delete someone every 45 seconds. Warlock dots are just so underpowered at this stage of the game.

  10. #10
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    I am just doing both. With my mages, I specced them frost, and the priest Holy, and lots of pulls so far (I'm mid 20s) are just Arcane Explosion spam, cycling frost novas, and throwing in Holy Nova for a bit of extra DPS/healing when needed (on a secondary action bar) With my Warlocks, I specced the priest Discipline, and it seems to be working out well so bar, (also mid 20s) My main team is 5 Shaman, whom I parked at 37 to get rested exp so I can get to 40 asap, while farming Scarlet Monastery a billion times to get all the scarlet chain gear, and 5 ravagers lol.

    I did put the priests on separate accounts, so I could swap things around if needed, and do 2 priests 3x mages/locks, or swap a mage and a lock so each team gets portals and soulstones. Having the priest soulstoned has saved a lot of time on the Warlock team from many corpse runs, and I miss that on the mage team.

    On my mages I Farmed SFK on saturday for hours, and got all 5 toons their Feline Mantle, Robe of Arugal, (I call him arugula) and the Belt of Arugal. I much prefer SFK over BFD, due to all the skinnable mobs, less casters, and no mobs that run away. I might go back there and farm another level or two, but will probably end up going to Gnomer before starting up Scarlet Monastery.

    PvP wise, haven't done much yet, as I'm still too low, but I've oneshot everyone near my level, and killed a few above my level handily, so I'm looking forward for some Southshore vs Tarren Mill action in the future.
    5 Boxing Fairbanks - Horde

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