MMMMP vs LLLLP For PvP?

[vincenntxue]

I know I could farm dungeons with both, mages being a little trickier but possibly faster? Locks seems a bit slower to kill but safer/easier, though the pets don't always hold aggro for bosses, but at least halfway through. PVP I'm not sure as I haven't had a chance to try both, but I'd definitely want to be closer to top dps in bgs when they come out (assuming follow is allowed) and here's where I'm confused on which to choose.

Warlock
Easy DoTs, don't need to face target and can literally run around/cast, plus it synergies with my priest more.

Mage
Crazy 1 shot bursts or pretty close, but have to be facing the target when casting. Nova/blink could work for all casters very easily, and frost spec synergies so well with each other.

So basically, if I'm looking for top DPS numbers AND KILLS, would 4locks or 4mages be my go to?

I've adjusted the title of the thread so that it isn't huge and doesn't get cut off.
Please keep the titles of threads concise and to the point.

-MiRai

[xandorz]

I would go with warlocks.

With warlocks you need 2 gcd to kill someone at 36yd range while moving, can add another gcd and a immolate to really get the damage going on them.
Has the option to be one of the tankiest classes in pvp with soul link and stacking stamina.
Also has several useful abilities like death coil, howl of terror, fear, offensive and defensive dispel magic, silence, imp for hp buff or succubus for additional cc, soul stone (imagine 4 soul link warlocks that stack stamina using soul stone on rotation on priest that have spirit of redemption) etc.
Can be countered with dispel and healing but probably a bit hard.

Mages. Need to face target. Need to cast spells or use their instant cast cd spells.
Fire Blast, 20-26 yd range. Probably won't kill anyone with just this unless lucky with crits or if you stack spell power and attack badly geared players.
Cone of Cold is basically melee range.
I mean, I think they will struggle in fights because of needing to face target, not at all tanky, not a lot of instant cast with long range and I think they will get less kills in world pvp because they need to get so close to target and no spammable instant cast.
They might struggle against things like Blessing of Freedom, Free Action Potion. They would probably be more vulnerable against grenades (can't use arcane explosion or cone of cold if you spread out and if you use a 2.5 sec cast and get interrupted it will be more punishing than someone spamming instant casts), can also be easier to aoe fear since they have reason to stay close and need to stand still casting spells and warlocks can counter someone running up close with a death coil.

To me mages doesn't feel that amazing, some say they will be amazing but most of the time I think the argument is "they can aoe down 50 people with a few gcd" but in most fights the opponents will probably be spread out. I think mages are a solo or pve class, can't use their movement properly as a multiboxer in pvp.

Btw, follow was tested in bgs during beta, it did not work. I think only way they would allow it is probably if there was a big demand from community (maybe for easier/lazy movement in AV). So it is very unlikely that it will work in bgs.

[vincenntxue]

I would go with warlocks.

With warlocks you need 2 gcd to kill someone at 36yd range while moving, can add another gcd and a immolate to really get the damage going on them.
Has the option to be one of the tankiest classes in pvp with soul link and stacking stamina.
Also has several useful abilities like death coil, howl of terror, fear, offensive and defensive dispel magic, silence, imp for hp buff or succubus for additional cc, soul stone (imagine 4 soul link warlocks that stack stamina using soul stone on rotation on priest that have spirit of redemption) etc.
Can be countered with dispel and healing but probably a bit hard.

Mages. Need to face target. Need to cast spells or use their instant cast cd spells.
Fire Blast, 20-26 yd range. Probably won't kill anyone with just this unless lucky with crits or if you stack spell power and attack badly geared players.
Cone of Cold is basically melee range.
I mean, I think they will struggle in fights because of needing to face target, not at all tanky, not a lot of instant cast with long range and I think they will get less kills in world pvp because they need to get so close to target and no spammable instant cast.
They might struggle against things like Blessing of Freedom, Free Action Potion. They would probably be more vulnerable against grenades (can't use arcane explosion or cone of cold if you spread out and if you use a 2.5 sec cast and get interrupted it will be more punishing than someone spamming instant casts), can also be easier to aoe fear since they have reason to stay close and need to stand still casting spells and warlocks can counter someone running up close with a death coil.

To me mages doesn't feel that amazing, some say they will be amazing but most of the time I think the argument is "they can aoe down 50 people with a few gcd" but in most fights the opponents will probably be spread out. I think mages are a solo or pve class, can't use their movement properly as a multiboxer in pvp.

Btw, follow was tested in bgs during beta, it did not work. I think only way they would allow it is probably if there was a big demand from community (maybe for easier/lazy movement in AV). So it is very unlikely that it will work in bgs.

Oh wow, those are some really solid points. Definitely going with warlock then. That's sad news about the bgs I may not continue multiboxing so instead I may just make what I'd want to play as a main(ROGUE) later. Rogue/3locks/priest (Might be a bit tricky, but it'll be a challenge I suppose.) TY!

[nodoze]

Personally I think Warlocks are more realistic for most multiboxers. They are more fire/forget on targets and have tools to deal with people zerging them and are more tanky when people do get in close on them.

[Drmanhattan]

I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.

due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better

[vincenntxue]

I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.


due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better

TY! Honestly I'm avoiding using a mage with locks as I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Switching out a lock with a rogue, but only because I main rogue, hoping that'll help in some way though. What would you say is the best spec for PVE 10-40 or even 10-60?

[nodoze]

I am currently level 48 with 4 locks+ holy priest; and honestly I would recommend and hybrid mix of mages/locks + priest. I keep soulstone on priest only to counter running back for partial wipes.

The lock pets will only hold threat until the mob starts taking damage. Even 2 dots will break threat. Massive aoe healing will break threat. More voidwalkers does not really make a difference, as they do not much with good healing, as they are quite beefy.

due to the limited threat potential of void tanking, I’ve switched to primarily Nuke damage (shadow bolt). This would work easily mixed with mage nukes, so I see no downside to mixing. For clarification, the nukes do pull threat on the kill target, but that target dies to burst before it matters, then I can switch to the next kill target.

i mainly suggest the hybrid group for the utility both mages and locks bring. I severely miss not having free food/water. Currently after a pull i life tap to full mana, aoe heal to full, then drink on just priest. If food and water were free, I could just sit and eat/ drink on all without expense, and my runs would go faster.


for pvp, I agree dots on targets you’re being swarmed by seem appealing, but I have found 4x hellfire aoe to actually be more effective ( 2 seconds to kill same level ) and that hits everything swarming you, while priest aoe heals. If target is at range: 4x immolate + conflagrate kills same level in 1.5 sec, both hit same time

ive tried all 3 lock specs for pve/ pvp up till 48, and deep destro is def the most effective. Curse of exhaustion on one lock for chasing down pvp targets was nice, but the burst approach has been better

If you had a level 60 Mage on a 6th account (or as an alt on your 5 accounts) who could give you ample food/water at the start of your session would you still want to mix in a mage or would you recommend all locks in that case?

Alternatively if you were flush in gold such that buying food/water were not a concern would you still want to mix in a mage or would you stay all locks in that case?

[Apatheist]

I'm curious how people are playing when they say "just DoT's will out-threat voidwalkers." Are your pets assisting you as you cycle through targets and DoT? If that's the case, of course a full row of DoT's will pull threat after they tick several times and you've only allowed the voidwalker a chance to apply one torment.

Here's how my pull would go when I was private server testing for reference.

I select 4 different targets, send pets. I allow the pets enough time to get two torments and a couple of auto attacks off (6 seconds or so) during which time I select 4 new targets. Then I send my pets again and repeat however many times I feel my pets can handle the incoming damage. Usually 8-12 equal level mobs. Then I use my pet passive/follow macro. When my pets stack up near me, I hit my AE hotkey that does several things.

1. Cycles through the warlock pets casting suffering on a 3 second delay so I have a suffering available for most pulls and they don't all fire at once.
2. Hellfire and petaggressive macro on warlocks.
3. Prayer of mending, fade castsequence on priest

This way one of the voidwalkers is guaranteed to generate a significant amount of threat on everything near me (260-780 threat depending on rank) and all pets have cast 2-3 torments on each mob. That should be enough to hold agro for several pulses of hellfire which will kill most dungeon trash. Couple of lifetaps, another prayer of healing and my warlocks and their pets are full HP/mana with the priest on about 75% mana.

For my testing I used a weird hybrid soul link spec just for grinding purposes.
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...051-5050005122

It sounds complex but once you get into the swing of it it's actually simple and efficient with minimal down time. I only ever have to sit and drink when my priest gets low which is rare once you get decent gear. I haven't played warlocks yet on classic but I figured I'd post this again just to give some tips. Can't see any reason why this wouldn't work in classic dungeons with proper pet management. An average pull of say 3 packs or 12 mobs takes about 20-30 seconds.

Here's a random video I found showing voidwalker is perfectly capable of holding threat on classic versus DoT's even with no DPS delay and using immolate which I never do. The mobs are even a level higher than him causing them to parry/resist more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JKRIpD5TI&t=365s

[Purpleflavor]

for pvp i dont think it's even close. I think Xzin found the best combo in MMMMP. Four 3minute mages with so many insta casts, cc, iceblock and mobility. Yikes. You can literally delete someone every 45 seconds. Warlock dots are just so underpowered at this stage of the game.

[Apatheist]

for pvp i dont think it's even close. I think Xzin found the best combo in MMMMP. Four 3minute mages with so many insta casts, cc, iceblock and mobility. Yikes. You can literally delete someone every 45 seconds. Warlock dots are just so underpowered at this stage of the game.

My experience is the complete opposite. Mages are much more reliant on spell power than warlocks. Warlocks can literally PvP naked and still do well. Not to mention having 4 soulstones for your healer is beyond OP.

In fact, there's a pretty entertaining video of some random doing just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJkaD3pmAs4&t=305s

Thing is, I am concerned of groups and to react super fast, which on other hand with mages is not problem beacuse if groups try to engage they will face massive dmg with arcane power arcane explosion.

This is true to an extent but how often is that situation going to occur? 90% Of the time if you find yourself in a large scale fight with 20+ on each side you're going to be much more effective sitting back, DoTing everything in range with warlocks than trying to suicide dive in order to use arcane explosion.